kle 500 non starting
 

Hi all. I am struggling with my kle . After a top end rebuild, the bike now refuses to start. All cams and valve gear replaced as per manual, bike has fuel and sparks, and seams to attempt to fire, but out off time. Motor did over heat prior to rebuild. crank pick up measures 110 ohms, coils seam ok, don't know if there is anything wrong with cdi , have nothing to swop it with, does it just work or not?

Check the compression. If you have spark , fuel and compression it should start.

180 out?
 

just check that its firing on the compression stroke..... and not 180 degrees out and firing on the exhaust stroke.
if its sparking, and the spark is coming on the compression stroke, she should start.


to test:first see if its possible to put a finger over plug hole with plug removed, if so, great! ( put finger over hole, not in it, just seal it so you can feel compression, we don't want trapped fingers and bent valves..... or law suits)
THEN, turn ignition on, make sure its in gear, kill switch on run, if your bike has a kick starter, get some one to GENTLY turn engine over ( if no kick starter use rear wheel, 2nd gear, bike on a stand so rear wheel off ground) feel compression build......... at the same time ( pays to be ambidextrous) hold the spark plug in the end of the plug cap using insulated pliers against some bare part of the frame ( a nut or bolt head will do) and as the compression builds watch for a nice fat spark. if there is compression and a fat spark: lovely stuff
you can do this by gently dabbing the electric started, but you want it to be "controlled" and 'feel' when the compression stroke is building.
if it sparks when there is NO compression.......then whoops....... possibly 180 out or the valve clearances are too tight.

thats my 2p worth anyway, or at least what I would do first.:thumbup1:

hope this helps

Martyn

Thanks for the advice, will have to wait till the weekend to try again . Had a little accident at work, and fingers not very well. Will let you know how it goes.
kwakchris

All would appear to be correct at first sight . A closer inspection however revealed that the cog on the crank that runs the camshaft has moved . Weather this is pressed or pinned on I do not know. It means the timming marks on the cam shaft cogs are no good, and of course it could move again when the motor got hot , if I ever got it started. An other motor is the best option, but having difficuty finding one. Has anybody any experience of fitting a er5 motor in place of the kle? physically no problem I guess, but what do I need to change on the electrical side? I know I am a pain in the rear end but don't want to scrap the bike. All usful suggestions concidered.

hmmmmmmmmmm
 

well Chris I dont know if its pinned or what BUT, if its a pin that has sheared, its not too hard a fix. if its pressed and worked loose....its gonna play on your mind like a bad woman.
What would I do? I would get it all lined up perfect, then MIG weld the damn sprocket on! make sure it runs, then sell the bike to a non hubb member sharpish like and buy an XT......:innocent:

Sounds like it could be that the cam chain timing is out, since you took replaced the camshaft and top sprocket. There's normally an inspection port down near the crankshaft to view the tick on the bottom sprocket (which should normally be at 12 o clock), and an inspection port (or possibly have to remove the valve cover on top) to view the tick at 12 on the top sprocket (RTM to be sure). Once both are at 12 o clock (ie Top Dead Centre - TDC) on the compression stroke (important!), you can re-check the valve clearance.

If the timing is wrong by 360 degrees (ie, you set it up at TDC, but not on the compression stroke), you'll get the valves coming down to meet the piston on it's way up.. not good! If it does actually manage to turn over without churning itself into a mass of tangled metal, it definitely won't fire up.

Incidentally, some systems have a "wasted spark" setup, where a spark is generated on both compression and exhaust (dependent on the ignition circuit setup).. so the important thing to check is the spark on the compression stroke (as per the excellent check in the previous post).

The CDI could have blown too.. if that went, you'd normally not get a spark at all (or if you did, it certainly wouldn't be advanced / retarded by the correct amount, for the load, engine speed, etc). The manual normally has CDI resistance tests in there that you can do, but the easiest way is definitely to switch in a known good unit. If you need to replace it, the Kawasaki OEM unit is expensive (I was quoted 290 GBP + VAT last week for one).. try this instead.. I've ordered one for my KLR.. IgniTech (130 EUR or so for a programmable CDI).

The sprocket is normally secured with 2 small bolts.. I'm not sure how it would move out of alignment when the motor got hot.

I agree with the last post; I can't see how that driving cog can be out of alignment because you have not changed it while doing your work (or have you?) - how are you so sure that is the case when you don't know how it is fixed in place?
Anyway, the important point is that the sets of timing marks are in alignment and the camshafts (plural - I guess you have two sets for a twin) are also aligned.

I did a similar job on a single cyl and the bike would not start when it was all back together - this turned out to be caused by me pulling the spark plug lead off so many times; even though there was a spark, it was not a strong one I guess (but it was visible in "shaded" light). Once I remade the connection of the lead to the spark plug cap and back to the coil it fired up.

I've just re-read the original mail..

When you replaced the cams and valve gear, the top sprocket needed to come off, giving ample opportunity to put it back on in a (even slightly) different position, messing up the timing.. this is what I think is happening. Once the spockets are secured, the only thing that should cause the timing to change (even marginally) is via the chain tension, which is on the same side of the engine (left?), normally at the rear. Make sure the chain has been tensioned once the valve cover is back on and secured, but before you do the valve clearance adjustment (otherwise the valve clearance can change slightly once the chain gets tensioned).

The KLE is a double overhead camshaft engine, right?? one cam for the exhaust valves, one cam for the inlet valves (I'm assuming this based on the KLR, so I could be wrong).

Best way to fix the problem now (assuming it's still a problem) is to break the problem down.. verify one thing at a time (fuel, electrical, mechanical, etc), until you find something that looks iffy, fix that, then continue checking.. First thing to check is always: fuel, fuel tap, fuel pipes (to carb, etc), battery, battery connections, spark connection, coil, etc.

Also, re-read the manual for the work that was done on changing the cams and valve gear.. have all the procedures been followed correctly??

What caused the over-heat in the first place? Has that been fixed?

Perhaps the timing chain is off this bottom cog? This happened to me while reassembling the top of the engine - I removed the side cover, after draining the oil (some people say it can be done without draining by leaning the bike to the side) and managed to get the chain back on the cog by a stretch of the fingers, without taking off the flywheel/generator. Before that, I tried to get the chain back on the cog with a long screwdriver down the timing chain "tunnel" but it was jammed in and needed to be moved by hand.
Fortunately, I did not try to start the bike with the chain off it's cog - it was very stiff in turning over by hand with the kickstart, unsurprisingly! - that gave me the clue of what was wrong!