Hello!

Of course, you can make it run "fine", with no stumbling, but that doesn't necessary mean that you have gained horse powers. If you have dyno-graphs to prove me wrong, please, upload them, as I have seen way too much to tell the exact opposite. You might gain a hp or two in the upper range, but usually, the low and mid range suffers a lot, and it's the "area under the curve" that's interesting.

CV-carbs works differently from most other carbs, which is why POD-filters do not work as well with them...

pod filters?

A Question about PCV Valve / Pod Filters - Please Help

"Very simple ,they don't work at all . CV carbs require a airbox. If you must have Pods you'll need to change carbs to Flatslides.

FOG" (FOG more or less has more knowledge about these engine than anyone else, he has tried more or less every way to improve horse power, and pods are not the answer for it)

And yes, Dragknee said - "i must have a factory freak then, because my bike runs fine with pods".

Airbox & Pods ....

If you read this thread, he then wrote - "You can use pods but you lose power on this bike with them. I lost about 10 which doesn't sound like much until you consider the bike only has 50 to begin with..."

YouTube - how motorcycle and atv carbs work (10:30)

Yes, you might say that the GPZ-500 is not tuned the same as the KLE 500. Well, that's true, but both share a Keihin CV 34mm carburetor, only with different jets and needles (and diaphram, I think); they also share the same engine, except for different camshafts (290 degrees, instead of 254, though that doesn't matter (barely) in this situation).

Yes, the standard airbox for the KLE 500 may not be the most optimal one (from what I've read), but that's why one mods it for pressure balance (or like some say, improve air flow).

OK, that's enough (though there's more to it, if one just looks around even further) :)

If you still think that I'm incorrect, then that's fine. I've been reading enough about this to know that I'll not use POD-filters, but if you say your bike runs fine, then that's fine (though I'll still doubt it, dyno graphs would be interesting to see :) ).

Regards,

Mollrik

I didn't say you were incorrect more just curious as to why you are so opposed to using cone filters as my experience with them has only been positive.
As for my bikes performance no dyno graph but i have gained an extra (indicated) 10mph topspeed with the 33hp restrictor still installed (Washer mounted inside rubber intake manifold to reduce intake diameter)

As for flatspots the only flatspot is below 3k which i very rarely use so not much of an issue (This appears to be more of lean pilot screw problem as i have richened the pilot in the past and this reduced the stumble just haven't got round to adjusting it properly)

Hi

Thanks for the tip. You have done your research well.

Question: Dont you think the #120/#125 will be too large for the N96J needle? What is considered the max main jet size you can match up with the N96J needle? The parts fiche for that carb set-up goes to #118.
I can understand why bike manufacturers are going the fuel injection route. Not so much endless fiddling around.

By the way, has anyone fitted a fuel injection set-up to a kle 500/ EX 500/ ER-5/ GPZ 500 motor. I am sure I have seen it somewhere.

Keep the info coming. :thumbup1:

Hey!

Well, it's hard to say, but I'm sure that anything bigger than 118 main jets, and you'll have to shim the needles. I have 120 main jets at home, and thinking about installing them, and shim them with 1 .5mm washer for each needle, and see how it operates, or I'll go even further and get 125 main jets (as stated, main jets are dirt cheap (2$ each)), and perhaps add 2 washers for each needle. You'll notice if the needles are too rich or too lean (well, at least I think I can, as I cured the richness in the "needle-area" before, and it went fine after that (it stumbled quickly)).

I'm sure though, if you just shim the needles, you'll get it to run just fine!

edit: Have you considered if you'll continue increasing the main jets to size 118, or if you'll go even further? :)

Regards,

Mollrik

Hi

When you mean "shimming" the needles you will be raising them a bit and thus making it a bit richer. I am strongly contemplating the #118 jets as the #115's made quite a differance. WOT is a lot stronger now and doesent feel "flat" (at WOT).

Hello!

With shimming, I mean placing a washer to raise the needle, causing it to be richer. I'm temped to actually try 125 or 130 main jets, and shim the needles with 2 washers (3 if that should be necessary, but I do not think so) and see how she runs, though I'll have to do some thinking before attending this :)

Regards,

Mollrik

For those interested some of what is said here is a bit misleading (maybe completely correct for the kle but not all bikes!!):

You can use CV carbs with pods - but yes its not as good as say with FCR's and most of what people go on about is the lack of ability to tune the whole rev range with a CV - difficult. BUT some bikes (mainly in-line 4's) can work real well with pods and cv's, producing about 15% more power (eg oil colled gsxr's) - but loose a tiny bit of bottom end.

Some pods, like BMC do a single large pod with dual carb inlets, so they aid in balancing pressure and sort of act like a very mini airbox - these are often better to use than two separate pods. Airbox is generally always better - gives best flat torque curve as long as it lets enough air in.

Pods generally dont work well on singles and twins - you CAN get more top end HP with pods, but torque curve is very yuck and you WILL often loose bottom end. BUT some engines will take it well - I used to have a TTR600 that worked well with pods as it had twin carb inlets into the head. With pods it could make big top end power - way more than with its whopping big airbox opened up.

Pods shorten inlet tract length, which does not help with torque and bottom end, but can aid top end - that's why some cars have variable intake tracts to provide best power anywhere in the rev range.

For those how rave about airboxes aiding in laminar flow etc - thats not true - a carbs inlet venturi and intake length will always dictate flow condition - not to mention head port shape/valves etc. The airbox is all about pressure regulation and harmonic resonance.

cya - and if you want to use pods I would suggest use with smoothbores as the stock carbs do the job but are not that great by any standard for tuning.

Hey, great post, Jimmy101, have been reading something similar to what you wrote, so I stand corrected (removing the airbox can actually work fine for some motorcycles using CV carbs) :) .

OK, I have a question (or several) for you people out there, and here it is!

I discovered recently that my float level were set at 19 mm, which is OK, according to the manual (17 +- 2mm), but it's as lean as it can go (recommended wise (manual)). I'm feeling some slight hesitation while going WOT at around 3K RPM (for testing purposes, of course), and could this be the reason for it?

Been doing some reading, and according to Factory pro's "tuning guide", which is specially written for CV carbs, the float height could be responsible for the slight hesitation I feel - CV Carb Tuning Procedures

I also have been reading through a german manual (not german myself, but enough to understand what I was looking for) for the KLE 500 ('91), and there it says the float level is 17mm (not 17mm +- 2, just 17mm) (which is the same for the GPZ 500 (or rather, recommended)).

Have anyone checked their float levels, and if so, could give me some clarity about this?

I'm using 115 main jets and the N96J needles, and they are working just fine, might go up to 120 main jets (will probably not go up any higher at the moment), and shim the needles with 1 washer.

Remember, I've been changing jets and needles from the lean version, which has 92 and 95 main jets, and leaner needles (N60D and N96L), fattening up the low mixture screw (not much was needed), without doing anything to the float height, which is why I think it could be responsible :)

edit: Winter is ascending, so there's not much riding from my part (pansy!), which is why I feel the urge (and have the time) to actually do some work on my KLE 500 now :)

Regards

Mollrik

Hi

I installed the #118 jets yesterday and took her for a spin. Guess what? The bike pulls even better now. It accelarates a bit faster and high speed cruizing is a pleasure. Low down also feels better. I was getting about 20 km/l with the #115 jets with city riding.

There is no flat spots or stumbling. :thumbup1:

Hey!

Nice to hear the results! :thumbup1:

I'll install the #120 main (#118 main jets are triple the price, as they have to make a special order for those; jets in the size of +-5 are cheap (100, 105, 110 e.t.c.)) jets then, but have you measured your float height recently?

I might actually set it to 17mm (according to the '91 manual and GPZ 500 manual(s) (and people on the GPZ 500 forum I visit quite often) usually recommends that), and shim the needles with 1 washer. The only slight hesitation is at low speed (~5-10km/h), low rpms, first gear, and WOT there, slight as in barely noticed, but I know it's there, so I will probably change the float height to 17 mm, install the 120 main jets, and shim the needles.

Have you modified the airbox further with the new jets, or just let it get more fuel?

edit: If I remember correctly, this more or less only occurs when the engine is cold, which could mean that it's a bit lean, but cold engines doesn't run as well as warm engines anyway, but I'll give you an update as soon as I know (might actually take a while) :)

Regards,

Mollrik

Hi

A quick update:

The bike was running quite rich with the N96J needles/#118 main jets and the fuel consumption was not that impressive. The midrange seemed a bit hesitant although at high revs she would pull well. As I normally dont ride in the upper (6+ rev range) this seemed a bit pointless.

I then decided to try out something. I re-enstalled the N60D needles and shimmed them with a 3mm washer each, fitted #112 mains and smaller (original) airbox snorkel. I set the air screw to 2 3/4 turns out. Remember that the airbox still has the "rimfire" conversion as the website says that it will work with the newer model KLE's.

The low/midrange is a lot more "crisp" and responsive. Upper rev range is also good and top-end is acceptable. Seems there must have been a reason that Kawasaki gave up with the N96J needle from '95 onwards. The bike is not running so rich anymore.

Question: Why does the one cylinder run richer than the other hence the different jet sizes for the left and right carb set-up? I am still two minded about installing different jet sizes for the left and right carb respectively. I was thinking left #115 or #118 and right #112. What effect will this have on performance?

Hi

A quick update:

The bike was running quite rich with the N96J needles/#118 main jets and the fuel consumption was not that impressive. The midrange seemed a bit hesitant although at high revs she would pull well. As I normally dont ride in the upper (6+ rev range) this seemed a bit pointless.

I then decided to try out something. I re-enstalled the N60D needles and shimmed them with a 3mm washer each, fitted #112 mains and smaller (original) airbox snorkel. I set the air screw to 2 3/4 turns out. Remember that the airbox still has the "rimfire" conversion as the website says that it will work with the newer model KLE's.

The low/midrange is a lot more "crisp" and responsive. Upper rev range is also good and top-end is acceptable. Seems there must have been a reason that Kawasaki gave up with the N96J needle from '95 onwards. The bike is not running so rich anymore.

Question: Why does the one cylinder run richer than the other hence the different jet sizes for the left and right carb set-up? I am still two minded about installing different jet sizes for the left and right carb respectively. I was thinking left #115 or #118 and right #112. What effect will this have on performance?

Hi
Quick update

Removed the restrictors today and what a difference power is seamless above 7k (think the needle and pilot need retuning)
100mph comes up pretty quick and was still pulling at 105mph when i had to ease up.

FYI all - I will be getting my bike dyno'd probley in the next couple of weeks as I have a bit of time off work.

It will have similar intake capacity of rimfire airbox mod but with "stock" inlet, custom headers and pipe. I have a pretty restrictive baffle in the pipe so power would normally be higher, but I'm after less noise and good fuel efficiency.

Will keep you posted.

Hi all had the bike on the dyno today
Its running rather on the rich side and the exhaust decided to come loose at the cylinder head on the way there and couldn't get it to tighten up properly

Even so it had 42.24hp and 29.44 ft/lb at the wheel

Think the exhaust leak made it lose a lot of torque because it was rather gutless on the way home