Western Pyrenees/ Basque Country ideas??
 

Hello folks,
I plan on spending a fortnight or so in early july in France/Spain, I was thinking basing myself in the Pyrenees/Basque country area for 7 days and spending the other 3 to 4 days getting there and the same on the return leg. Any recommendations for accomadation and good roads round that area would be kindly appreciated. I was hoping to get things booked up come april time when i will know proper dates, maybe if pushed for time might consider Portsmouth to Bilboa ferry to speed things up but think i would prefer to ride through France.

Cheers.

Keith.

There's a decent camp site at Eratzu on the Spanish side of the Pyrenees. I went on the ferry down to Bilbao once, never again, I've never been so bored in my life. You're better off to ride down through France and enjoy the countryside.

Thanks for reply mate, I'm glad you've put me off Portsmouth/Bilbao ferry, I never really wanted to take that option, think i might not bother with channel ferries at all and take the channel tunnel option, doesn't sound very exciting but it's something iv'e never done before and it'll get me across to France rather sharpish.

It's been said in other threads that riding in France is a good experience with those driving cars compared with the UK; French drivers are far more aware of bikes and move over to let you pass; this beats the long haul ferries IMO, and the pricing of those ferries is pretty clearly based on the cost of driving through France + the toll motorway costs + overnight stops etc etc. (probably for a family - do your own research on the cost aspect 'cos it changes, routinely).
And, Britanny ferries had a strike recently (Oct 2012), followed by a lock out by the ferry company management, which didn't help those trying to get to Spain etc.
In contrast, the short sea crossing routes (aka Dover-Calais) have loads of choices, lots of competition for your business and are the most flexible way of crossing the water; the tunnel is more expensive, but convenient. On the other hand, after riding from the north of England, a break to get off the bike and walk around is handy/essential.

If you want camping, there is loads of it in France, of very high quality; again, there are earlier threads in the HUBB on this subject, but no worries on that front.
Check when the Tour de France is running in 2013 and where it will be; you don't want to be near that, unless you want to see it. The accommodation prices are higher, crowds are everywhere, and the roads are closed to traffic.
On the other hand, riding those routes just after the tour can be interesting for the road graffiti alone.

Not really in the Basque region...but Phil knows good roads and places

See here...


www.pyreneesmotorcycletours.com


:)


.

Thanks to Walkabout and Land Rover for helpful replies, good call on the tour de france race, never give that a thought, i'll check out dates to try and avoid it.

Cheers.

Keith.

Hi Keith,
Have a look at the website of The Spanish Biker:

The Spanish Biker

I think you'll find most of the information you need there :)

We will be glued to the tv when the TDF hits the Pyrenees we use it as a travel guide to some great roads & scenery. Hopefully heading to the area in September 2013 also want to visit the Picos.
Following the thread for ideas.

Cheers

Thanks for the link Bip Bip, Good stuff.

Fair point.
I've done the same thing myself, for the whole of France, including following the daily reports of the T de F on the news reports and marking up the routes on large scale maps of the country.
Also, any Michelen map has routes edged in green which are the scenic routes; they rarely disappoint.
As for the Pyrenees, I didn't mention this area in my earlier post because it is hard to fault any route through those mountains; whether on the French or Spanish side of the border it is all good. :thumbup1:

Hi Keith mate.
I've been looking at your post for more than a few min's. If I can be of any help in what I tell you now. Is that you have made the right decision in not taking the ferry down to Spain. The amount of people who do it surprise's me. A bike trip, is a bike trip, not a ship cruse, which that ferry is. Spain at the moment is catch can kind of place. As you know the money in Spain is going tit's up, so you would think that thing's are getting cheaper. There not.

Are you going to camp or book a hotel for your stay? Hotel price's are coming down. So I would look at booking something through an on line holiday site. I got two week's just out side north of Barcelona for something like £200+. With parking for the bike. That was B/B. Stay at F1 hotel's on the way down and back. Cheap as chip's. If you can get someone to go with you and share. It's half the cost.

Wish you well. Sound's a nice trip.
John933

Hello John,
Thanks for reply mate, yes think iv'e made the decision to ride through France and back, going to take minimal camping gear just to have the option of camping if fancy it but i'm looking to get an hotel/apartment for a week while i'm in the Pyrenees/Basque Country area, looking to get things booked up April time when i will know dates for sure, might consider taking the Hull/Zeebrugge ferry yet, i'll see what difference price wise it is than riding south to Folkstone plus tunnel.

Cheers.

Keith.

The route down the west coast is actually a bit tedious if you're in a hurry - though Brittany has some great moto routes.

If the Bay of Biscay is to be avoided I'd suggest Portmouth to St Malo; there used be an overnight crossing. Or Portsmouth to Caen.
If you choose Calais you'll add a lot of boring miles (straight and flat) in the north east (Pas de Calais and Picardie) and Normandie is actually quite busy even on the D and N roads. The Pyrenees are so great I wouldn't want to dawdle too long crossing France - twice!

For routes: Michelin maps and ViaMichelin.com A green border on the road indicates scenic. Hard to find one that isn't!

Best to avoid.
 

Hi, it's best to avoid the E5 around Bayonne in SE France. Heavy truck use with smoothed tarmac and diesel plus congestion makes it best by far to seek out side roads to the border. Lindsay.

I think you are right in the time frame for the Tour, depending on exactly where the route is this year and where you want to travel en route through France.
But, the Tour always rides the cols in the Pyrenees; the same ones that we all ride with our motos. :innocent:


F1s are OK in general, but some of them are not so good; it seems to depend where they are located - those in the vicinity of very large cities can turn out to be very run down. There are other brands around, including in the Accor chain that owns F1, but many are becoming increasingly expensive in their nightly rates.
(like lots of businesses nowadays they appear to be run as franchises).
Chambre d'hote (B&B) can be more interesting.

Yes, the north of France can give this feeling, but some of that tedium of travel is caused, IMO, by the factor of "being in a hurry" to go south; it depends on what the daily travel aim(s) are.
For instance, visiting the WW1 battlefields could take up the whole trip in itself.

Thanks for recent replies folks, Iv'e been checking dates and route of this years tour de france, dates do clash with the time i plan on been there but looking at the route hopefully shouldn't be a problem, hope to be based on the spanish side of Pyrenees by the time it gets there, not a big cycling fan but might even go and give Wiggo and the British boys some support for the day.

Mornin' all,

BipBip, thanks for linking to my blog, I hope it's been useful.

ULLUKK: the Pyrenees are indeed stunning but you're looking on the wrong place in 'The Basque Country', which is quite built up by local standards. Instead try looking for digs in 'Navarre', which is the region just at bit further east, especially the towns and villages in the Roncal and Salazar valleys, if you want to base yourself in one place and specifically want to stay at the western end of the range. But unless you're completely hooked on the western end you'll find there are more routes on the Spanish side in the so-called 'Pre-Pyrenees' the further east you go.

The Tour is a pain for a much longer period than when it's actually there as so many groups of cyclists and general tourists clog up the 'Col' routes during the whole summer season. But if you're stuck for your holiday time you can at least make a small difference by planning to ride over the Tour passes in the evenings when the French are all home waiting for supper at 7.00 pm sharp - this is 'dead' time in Spain as you have to wait until 9.00 pm to eat out :)

Yo'll find many more routes in the Michelin 1: 150 000 'Zoom' series, Nºs 144-5-6, if you like maps these are a great buy but for some obscure reason they don't mark camp sites on the French side; maybe it's because there are so many!

To judge from your comments you're looking for digs rather than camping, so take a check at my page regarding rural accommodation and 'hostales' July is peak season and this sector hasn't been affected by the crisis, quite the reverse as the Spanish are now tending to stay on home territory for their holidays.

Have fun

Simon

If you want a road to ride. try this one. You wont be disappointed.

Google Maps

John933

Hello Simon,
Thanks for reply mate, think i might just take your advice and base myself further east than originally planned, my dates not only clash with the tour de france but also the bull running festival in Pamplona, prices for the week early july round that area are out of my price range. The idea of Western Pyrenees only came to me because its somewhere iv'e never been before, i'm never usually too fussy no matter where i stay, think i'll go back to my usual disorganised set off and see where i get to self, all this planning in advance doesn't suit me!! Ha ha!!.
Nice blog mate.

Cheers,
Keith.

Try and beg, borrow or even buy a copy of Toby Ballentines ''Motorcycle Journeys through Western Europe'', very good section on the Western Pyrenees and the north coast of Spain with day rides, accommodation, places to eat, camp etc. I used it last year to plan my trip. I camped in Tardets ( French side) and made daily sorties out over the top into Spain, using several of the recommended routes.

Thanks for the heads up on Toby Ballentines ''Motorcycle Journeys through Western Europe'' I managed to locate one on an auction site for an extravagent £2.50, so the planning for our trip is underway.

For the Pyrenees is it best to base ourselves in France or Spain. I know the economic climate can change and it is all down to personal preference but fuel (biggest expense) and campsite fees which is the cheapest??

We have a soft spot for France and the food but also like to have new experiences.

Stick this in to Googol map's.

municipal camping Lannemezan

A good place to start looking from. If you are going to use one of these. Try booking for three day's or more. Get a discount if you ask. Petrol in Spain is cheaper than France. But not by much, just a few penny's a litre. It about half way along the Pyrenees. So you can ride to the north or to the south. Easy.

France is much cheaper to camp than Spain. If you are going to up stick's after a few day's have a look at Perpignan on the lower south French coast. Then looking in to riding some of Spain. The road's and place's around there are great. Could even get away with a bit a fly camping in the back road's of Spain.
John933

It all comes down to preference these days. Fuel is pretty much the same nowadays but the camping issue raises its ugly head time and again!

The problem is trying to compare like with like: Spanish campsites have bars/restaurants that are usually open from 08.00 - 23.00, swimming pools as often as not, always hot water in the showers and absolutely always free wifi!

Municipal campsites in Spain hardly exist but when the do they are usually the same as commercial ones, but some tikes they are managed badly. One that I wholeheartedly recommend is at Ochagavia in Navarre - an outstanding location to explore the western end of the Pyrenees.

Luxury campsites in France are pretty much the same in my experience and bar bills there are horrendous :)

There's loads more on my blog - see below. But the important thing is just get here and have fun finding out for yourself!

Enjoy

Simon

I'm currently reading Toby Ballentines book as well at the moment, had to pay far more than two and half quid for it though!!, Good old amazon! Ha ha!.

Iv'e got myself booked on the Plymouth/Roscoff ferry for a fortnight trip in early july, plan on spending about 3 days riding down the west side of france then spending week in the pyrennes before meeting up with some friends for last few days in Perpignan. Iv'e been scanning for apartments for the week in the pyrennes recently and found some good links via The Spanish Biker's blog, Cheers!. Any tips/links on legal requirements whilst riding in France or Spain would be appreciated, i.e hi-viz, lightbulbs etc, just read thread on reflective stickers on helmets with deep joy!!

Thanks in advance.

Keith.

For riding tips and legal requirements for France, you might like to have a look at this forum, which has a section on the legal requirement and tips for France in the download section. ( how do I know?? Well,- I put it together!).

Bike Club France • Portal

Hi Keith,

Thanks for the kind words about my blog :)

Hope you're having a great time despite the weather :(

Regs

Simon

There is a shopping mall between France and Spain called 'Andorra', it is worthwhile to stop in there to get a cheap tank of gas and some low-priced cigarettes and hooch.

Don't buy the gas at the first station you see, the fuel is always much less expensive in the center of Andorra than it is at the stations near the border.

Thanks for the link mate, good stuff!!

Thanks for the advice on Andorra mate, i was thinking of maybe spending a couple of days there during my week or so round the Pyrennes so i'll be stocking up!!

Hi,

I don't think PanEuropean was recommending Andorra as a place to stay - it's an incredible dump! Meanwhile in both France and Spain you can stay at lots of lovely places within an hour's good riding of the frontier.

If you do go in though the best place for bike shops is in Santa Coloma - there are brilliant bargains there if you just turn up on spec, but you'll be disappointed if you are looking out for something in particular as the range isn't very wide.

You can get smokes anywhere - some shops have pallet loads of the popular brands in the foyer!

Regs

Simon

Hello Simon,

Thanks for the info on Andorra mate, must admit i was suprised to read that you described it as an incredible dump!!, iv'e never been so i personally couldn't comment on the place, think i'll pay a visit on my route east anyway but not that bothered either way about staying. I set sail to France on the 1st of July via Plymouth/Roscoff ferry, intend on travelling south down the west side of France for 3 days before heading over the border to Vielha to stay for the weekend, the following weekend me and the missis are meeting up with some friends forra few days near Perpignan, still not sure where to stay/visit on the trip eastwards from Vielha to South/East France yet so any recommendations would be appreciated.

Cheers.

Keith.

I spent a week there nearly 40 years ago and it was fine, as a new experience.
I've been back once or twice more recently and I agree that it is not up to much nowadays; very over-rated.
Now, it is over developed and has sold out to the tax exiles who frequent the place - that means that the population is transient. I checked it out online about a year ago and the population has reduced by about 8% over the last few years - my guess is that the youngsters are leaving to find work while the tax exiles move in and cause increasing property prices. Much like the national parks of the UK!


But, you can get through there in little more than an hour or two (it is a postage stamp sized country) so there is no need to stay there overnight.

Hi Keith,

Dave's quite right to justify his opinion with details - and his analysis is spot on! - and I should have done so too.

The reason I call it a 'dump' is that most of the country is along the valley of the Gran Valira river with some settlements in the higher tributary valleys.

The urbanisation along the Gran Valira is more or less continuous from the snow line - at about 2,200 metres - right down to the frontier with Spain. Most of this dates from the sixties and seventies when the architecture is, well ¡, it's difficult to be polite about the architecture so I won't bother!

In recent years a by-pass road had been built - still in the building - that runs along the 'backs' and has the addition of trading estate type developments. This by-pass it treated as a highway but is in fact totally urban and is truly horrible to ride - not least because Andorran drivers are maniacs (more on this below)!

Although the centre of the capital, Andorra la Vella, has been redeveloped and pedestrianised all this means is a shopping mall look with exactly the same stores that you get in any city pretty much all around the world! The rest of the urban zones are seriously blighted by the economic factors the Dave mentioned - there are loads of closed premises as, including bike shops, as Internet shopping has taken a massive toll on high street commerce. The new by-pass has added to this demise as dozens of small filling stations and tyre shops have closed in the face of new outlets there and in the trading estates. So apart from the centre of Andorra la Vella the whole place has a run down and depressing feel to it.

In contrast the high valley villages, where the rich folk live, are indeed pretty in a picture post card way but on closer inspection what you have is large de-luxe housing developments dressed up with a bit of cut stone and wooden barge board to look 'authentic' - Ordino is a good example of this. But to get to these valleys you a) have to ride through the lower valley towns, and b) they are a long way away from the valley, so riding through andorra then takes al long time.

Two more points - before I tell you that I go to Andorra quite often for the shopping!

Andorran drivers: as Dave says the demographic of the country are sad: lots of stinking rich tax exiles - all of whom I've heard of hate the place! - who drive f**k-off cars at maniacal speed, both in Andorra and beyond as they take day excursions to relive their boredom but have to 'sleep' in the country for X nights per year. The cross border control driving offences is also weak - so when in Spain if you see an Andorran car - take cover! *

On the other hand the folks who work in the shops, restaurants and as domestic helps are often seriously poor, and mostly migrants, mainly from Portugal or now Eastern europe and former soviet states, and drive old bangers that look held together with gaffer tape - to judge from all this I guess neither the driving nor vehicle tests in Andorra are what you'd expect anywhere else in Europe!

Access: Dave says, rightly, that Andorra is a postage stamp sized country. But to get there you are committed to rotten roads, especially from France, where the access is from the N20 via Foix and Axe-les-Thermes, while on the Spanish side it's not only a futile detour from the N260 at La Seu d'Urgell but you are more or less compelled to take the N260 there. Moreover, the section of the N260 road is grotty from La Seu to Puigcerda and you exclude yourself from some really lovely alternatives further south.

The good news? Well, I do go there quite often by car but that's because it's only an hour's drive away. If I get there with an empty tank I get a free day out - not much more. And since Spain's VAT is now 21% (and rising!) I use it to get my BMW serviced and my car serviced and shod - bike tyres are a dead loss for Adventure tyres, especially for my bike with it's unusual wheel size for off road tyres.

Shopping wise there more choice for me than in Spain for riding clobber, which I won't but on-line, and there are some great bargains if you go on spec. Booze and fags: well I don't smoke nor drink spirits so there's nothing in it - the French shop in Spain as often as going to Andorra; the Val d'Aran is a really popular destination for this as fuel, fags and booze are all much cheaper for them and they don't have to cross onto the southern side of the mountains. Furthermore - on both French and Spanish border with Andorra, which isn't in the EU remember, every single car is stopped and has at least a cursory inspection, so the delays can be huge! I've never been stopped in my bike even with luggage but you can only filter through the traffic up to a point and then you boil!

Phew - maybe I should have stuck to saying it's just a dump!

Keith, your route from Vielha to Perpignan is more positive! Tell me what accommodation you're looking for and what you like, e.g. remote villages, historic towns . . . and how much time you have for the ride as there's a quick way and a very slow way - no prizes for which way I'd choose :)

Regs

Simon

* this is less of a joke than it seems: recently two cyclists were killed in the seaside resort of Salou. The driver was in an Andorran plated Porch, was drunk and coke up to her eyeballs. But she was also a French resident driving on French license - totally illegal unless it's a rental. But the upshot is that she got released on bail - maximum €15,000 - and promptly flitted the country, never to be seen again no doubt and the cyclists' families will get nothing!

Cheers Dave and Simon, thanks for taking time to reply folks, iv'e made my mind up to give Andorra a miss now!!, iv'e got 3 days to get from Vielha to Perpignan so the scenic long way round route sounds right up my street mate, hope the roads in the Vielha area haven't been too battered in the recent floods.

Cheers.

Keith.

Hi Keith, not at all.

The damage in the Vall d'Aran was mind blowing - but amazingly the road was opened within 48 hours albeit very crude!

Imatges aèries dels efectes dels desbordaments - Televisió de Catalunya

You could get from the Vall d'aran to Perpignan in a day so if I had three I'd think about basing myself some where and exploring from there.

One idea is that I have left a half dozen copies of my HISS rally guidebook behind the bar where the rally took place at Camping Collegats, near La Pobla de Segur.

There are over 400 kms or trails that ling together into long itineraries, in two four-day HISS rallies no-one has come near finishing them all!

Here's a taster:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qfNNb2qOOo

I'm selling them for just €30 which is just a bit more than they cost to print, plus a sub to the camp site plus a beer or two for me and Mrs S :)

Route-wise. From Vielha: Sort - Tremp - Coll de Nargó - Port del Compte - Tuixent - Gosol - La Pobla de Lillet - Castellar d'en Hug - Puigcerda/Bourg-Madame (that's the French border) - Villefranche-de-Conflent - Prades.

From Prades on you're close to the metropolis of Perpignan so there are lots of different ways to exactly where your holiday villa is waiting for you - with a nice cup of tea after that ride!

Regs

Simon

Hello Simon,

Many thanks again for replies mate, its strictly tarmac for me, the trusty old fazer is not too clever on the loose stuff!! ha ha!, don't think i'm even gunna bother with tent on this trip, got acommadation sorted for most of days already and on the days we haven't just gunna find somewhere to stay on route, thanks for the route you posted, think i'll give that one a go.

Cheers.

Keith.

Hi,

Ribes de Freser is a good place to have in mind for accommodation - it's just off my route but none the worse for that. You can also use it as a base to explore the lovely Garrtoxa region just further east around Olot

It's a picturesque 'spa' town so there are lots of hotels/hostals and if you fancy a non-bike day there's a rack railway that takes you way up into the mountains. You can also get a train to Barcelona although it's quite a long journey :)

Regs

Simon