Uk to France for a Newbie?
 

Hi guys,
Me and my wife and kids have decided we are going to go on an overland trip at least once a year in our Landrover Discovery and are going to start small and build on our experiences every year.

This will be our first time abroad so any advise is very appreciated.

Our first trip is going to be from Wales in the UK to France and spend time visiting and camping in/close to their beautiful national parks and maybe a few brief visits to more populated places like Paris, Bordoux and Nantes to visit museums and that sort of stuff.

We are looking to spend 10 to 14 days initially so we have time to do lots of stuff, but don't find ourselves staying in the same place too long.

My main questions are:

What documents do we need if any (obviously passport is needed) ......

Is driving the same as this country (give way to the right,etc) apart from driving on the right side of the road and needing a hi-vis vest for every person on board.

Thanks in advance for any replies, and if there are any other things that will be relevant to our trip please feel free to comment.

France is bigger than a lot of people realise on a first trip there, so 10-14 days is very little time and certainly, IMO, not enough to get around all of it.
Check out a michelen map for how far south the country extends.

Apart from that just do it!
You should have the paperwork for the vehicle with you including the insurance for the car, V5c, MOT cert and breakdown cover.

Take a warning triangle and a reflective jacket thingy per person who might step out of the vehicle in the event of a breakdown.

On the personal front, passports for everyone, including the children, an EU medical card (from the NHS per person) and that's about it.

Take a look back through here, "Europe", for all kinds of information about crossing the channel and France also - don't ignore the info about motorcycles because much of it is generic to any mode of travel.
Driving there has changed a lot over the years and there are now lots of roundabouts (having seen a good idea, the French went for them big time).

Optional paperwork, apart from a map, would be guidebook(s) and, maybe, a phrase book if anyone is into parleying the language - well worth while thing to do of course.

Finally, a first trip abroad is always exciting so savour every moment and take lots of pics/vids.
:welcome: by the way, with your first post.

Don't forget your driving licence and you wifes also.
You should by law have a spare pair of glasses in the car if you need them.

Do not speed through little villages and small towns. When you see the sign for the name of the town, you are entering a 31 MPH (50 KMPH) speed limit. When you see a similar sign with a diagonal line through it that is the end of the 31Mph limit. BUT in both cases this may be changed into another limit which is like a UK speed limit sign, IE a circular sign with a number in it. Most Brits simply do not react to the town names as it does not register a a speed limit sign. The French can get very unpleasant if you speed by schools especially when there is likely to be traffic to and fro, often shown with a flashing amber triangle sign.

You can park in laybys and rest areas whenever and for as long as you like. France is very much a live and let live society. There is no antagonism between bikers and cagers or anyone else, unlike the UK. It is customary to pull over to let bikes pass or filter. The rider will normally say thank you by sticking his right leg out in front of his bike.

Petrol called essence is usually available 24/7 by using a chip and pin card. Most now accept UK cards. As in UK, supermarkets are usually the cheapest.

If you see lots of trucks parked around a non descript building around 12 noon, this will be a routier. I recommend you go there and eat. It will be a set FRENCH menu with about three choices for 10-12 euros. Usually 4 or 5 courses. including wine and often coffee. This will be real traditional French food and excellent value and bit of an experience.

Most supermarkets have a ready cooked food counter where you can get meals for as many as you like, 1 onwards. The freshly prepared food is usually weighed and put in sealed containers. very easy to put together an evening meal or picnic. France is very camping friendly.

As previously advised, get a free EHIC (European Health Insurance Card) card for each member of your party to obtain "free" medical care whilst outside the UK. search for it on the net, you can get them usually with just a phone call but check on the net. Anything you do have to pay for, keep the receipt and you will usually be able to be reimbursed when you get back to the UK.

Hope this helps. You ought to have a really enjoyable trip and not need a 1/4 of this stuff.

Thanks guys.
I'm really looking forward to the trip now.
So much so that I might go over with my brother before the big trip to get a feel for the place :D:thumbup1:

I go to France regularly in my Discovery - it's a good vehicle for what you have in mind as the slightly higher driving position will give you a good all round view and it makes things a little easier when you're uncertain of quite how to do this turn or how this junction works.

Others have covered stuff about documents etc so no need to repeat it but below are a few points that might catch you out, at least initially.

It may seem obvious that you'll have to drive on the right but it means that all the road positioning skills and things like that which are second nature in the UK essentially have to be done backwards in France and that can require a bit of concentration until you get the hang of it. For me now I can flip from one system to the other pretty much automatically but it did take a few trips before that was the case and until that happened I had a "give way to everybody", just in case I'd got it wrong approach.

The other main problem with UK cars in France is that the driver is on the kerb side and that causes visibility problems when you want to overtake. OK, you're not going to be overtaking a huge amount in a Discovery but sooner or later you'll be stuck behind a truck or a tractor and unable to see what's coming as you can't pull out far enough. There's no answer to that other than safety first (unless you absolutely trust whoever is in the front passenger seat to act as your eyes), even if it does mean annoying the long queue of locals behind you who can see if the road is clear.

My other piece of advice would be to steer clear of Paris, at least until you're happy with driving in France. Like London, Parisian motorists don't take prisoners and trying to cope with the volume and density of traffic while being uncertain about where you're going (even with sat-nav) and uncertain about "reverse" driving doesn't sound like a holiday to me. Paris is a fabulous city and well worth a visit but find somewhere just outside and come in on the train. Your blood pressure will thank you!

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Beware a red triangular road sign with a black X in it. This can be slightly hidden on busy streets, or out in the open approaching a cross roads where you may have obviously the bigger road, but this means the traffic from the right has right of way so may just come out without a look or slowing down straight into your path. French traffic signs, highway code etc | Visit Normandy-Pays de la Loire

Some of the older folks still drive assuming give way to the right applies everywhere, so will pull onto roundabouts even with you heading for them because 30 years ago you should've given way to them :)

But France has fab roads, minimal traffic and loads of campsites, lovely place :)

I'd agree with all this good advice. And add another item:

It used to be standard advice to take one of these with you:
European Accident Statement
Association of British Insurers - European Accident Statement
I usually did, but luckily never had need to use it.

Is it still something worth taking?

You can download and print one from here:
http://club-cwc-newcomers.web.cern.c...ident_Form.pdf
Although the ones you can get through the post, usually from your insurance Co, will be in triplicate self-carbon-copy, so you can hand out copies of the completed form if need be.

Also, it's a long time since I had small children. In those days the difference in attitude to children in places like cafes, restaurants and campsites, between England and France, was amazing.
They were actually welcomed and had attention paid to them! :D

Enjoy!

Driving in France
 

Hi - you'll love driving in France (outside cities). There is far less traffic per mile (or kilometre) of road and they are generally good quality, though smaller local roads have deteriorated over the past decade due to budget squeezes.

What you need, apart from the obvious passports:

• Insurance documents and registration certificate for your vehicle
• One hi-viz jacket for the driver accessible from inside the car, not the boot (they are NOT required for passengers)
• Warning triangle

Recommended:

• spare bulb set - not legally required, but if the gendarmes stop you with a defective light and you can't change it, they can immobilise your vehicle. But no point having the bulbs if you don't know how to use them!

You won't need a breathalyser - the law introduced in January 2012, with fines supposed to have started in November 2012, is now under review and will probably get knocked on the head as a waste of time and money.


You don't need a First Aid kit - only required for HGV or PSV drivers. However, a good idea anyway in the UK as well as France if you know what to do with it.

I'll be happy to explain or offer other info, I do know the regulations here and there is a lot of misinformation about.

Phil

The reason that I think a hi-viz vest should be available to every person who steps out of a vehicle in the event of an incident is because once these are expected to be in use by the motoring public then anyone not wearing one in a "dangerous" situation is more likely not to be seen. e.g. in fog.

For what it's worth, the UK roads are in a much worse state than those in France; rather than repair potholes, a substitute here is to just mark them with yellow spray-on paint. :innocent:

European driving advice | AA

Not much to add to the good advice above, except for the above site that I use when I'm looking to ride in new countries.

Enjoy the travel!

Thanks ever so much guys. Very valuable information to make our trips a lot easier and therefore much more enjoyable.

Roll on holidays :D

Not likely to be much of a problem in a discovery but the French are now absolutely draconian in punishing speeders, but you could get caught out when you come into a town as the road may look nice and clear but, as above, once you pass the town sign your in a 50kph limit. There will often be no speed limit sign to back this up.

I always use the channel tunnel now for crossing. It's a lot more flexible, missing your time or arriving early is rarely a problem except at the busiest times, they'll just put you on the next available. It's only a little more expensive but speed and the benefit in flexibility and the corresponding reduced stress are well worth it, also saves having the kids vomit over you!

all that said, for your first trip, little beats the excitement of leaving on a ferry!

Watch out for the yellow diamond signs at the side of the road, they denote you are on the primary route and have right of way.

Check with one of the big motoring organisations as to the current regs and what you need to carry but it's pretty much as above, but other european countries vary so when you travel further afield make sure you are covered for all the countries you may go through.

Pricing?
 

I like the ferry anyway - as above, it feels like "real" travelling and it is more of a break in the driving after arriving at "the seaside".

But, where are you getting quotes for the tunnel? I've just booked to cross next week to Calais with 4 wheels and it is £39 one way with P&O. Eurotunnel came up with a price of £92 for the same journey, same vehicle, similar time of day.

ps DFDS offered Dover - Dunkirk for £26.

pps the boats are equally flexible about which boat sailing is used, when it is quiet at the port.

ppps I miss the days of hovercraft and hydroplanes - now that was travelling with a vehicle!!

yeh, the hovercraft was quite an experience!
100 quid extra return isn't much! usually, when I am heading trough Europe I am on my way to Eastern Europe. A trip I do 2-4 times a year so the 50 quid and faster crossing is well worth it to me. Not only is the crossing faster but you don't have to book in so far in advance, saving even more time. It means I can easilly make Poland on day 1 which makes overnight accomodation much cheaper. the trip back to the UK means usually crossing western Europe in a one'er, whichmeans the flexibility of booking in times is way better than catching a ferry. trains leave every half hour or so, ferries definately don't! less stress and I don't have to plan to arrive in ridiculously good time for a ferry. If I miss the train I just jump on a later one!:scooter:

Fair enough.
The boats can get crowded and that is when I don't like them but I aim to travel outside of school holidays and the like, so they work OK for me - certainly a decent break from driving.

The ferry companies (I have used all of the current crop in the past couple of years) have loaded me onto any one of their boats that is sailing, even if I turn up early and the best timing I have had was when I got to the check-in gate and 20 mins later we sailed - it was very quiet on that day!!

Anyway, there's some more things for daf.vinci to consider.

I think the flexibility on ferry tickets at DoverCalais is now only about 4 hours from your booked sailing or you pay. Not as flexy as it was :(

You might try this as anyone else might.

When I first traveled away I would place a clear arrow pointing to the right in my line of sight. Like in the window above steering wheel height. It wont take long to get used to being "on the other side" of the road though.

Enjoy
Socks

The driving on the wrong side of the road bit isn't too tricky, it's junctions you have to watch out for, particularly when turning left.

Also take care when leaving a roadside cafe, hotel, petrol station etc, when you're turning onto a single-carriageway road that is also quiet.
There's often nothing in view to remind you which side of the road you should aim for.

And you need to remember to look both ways if you're turning left - I've seen a Brit biker look only to the right when leaving a petrol station - it was a close shave! :eek3:

Have a great trip!

Thanks guys. I think the first trip will be by ferry for the kids to enjoy it a bit and for a rest for us all. Then the tunnel on the way home.

did 6 in 24 hours once, wouldn't recommend it though, didn't see much of them!

yeh, thats the scenario I was thinking of. It really suprised me when I nearly got caught out like that. I do look both ways, but my instinct is to look right first, then left, and I hadn't realised that when I look left I have already started to exit the junction slightly and am really just checking for overtakers coming the other way:helpsmilie:
now I am much more deliberate about junctions!

You will have a great time in France.
Avoid Paris as said. As an ex-Parisian I can confirm they are usually rude and traffic is horrendous. Best going by Eurostar to visit Paris.

For accommodation in France, campsites are usually very good and clean. There is a star system like for hotels, so worth staying in 3, 4 or 5 stars campsites.

It is also very pleasant to stay in a "Gite rural" which is the equivalent of B&Bs, usually in small villages and farms.

Look also for signs of "Chambres d'hotes" Similar stuff. You can stay in really nice farms / stunning old houses for decent price. Includes Breakfast.

North of France is not really nice. Follow the A16 along the coast.
Le Touquet is a nice and pretty place to stay for the night. It used to be the playground of the rich once upon a time, and it still shows.

Following the A16 you will get to Normandie.
From the A16 it falls then into the A28 and A29 toward Le Havre (no interest there- industrial).

You can then explore all the little coastal towns of Honfleur, Deauville, Cabourg. Avoid weekends to avoid the Parisian crowds.

From there, cross and follow the A84 beyond Avranches. Then you are fairly close to Mont St Michel. Awesome. Must visit.

Then you should visit some of northern Bretagne. La "Cote de granite rose" is stunning.

Pick up the N175 / 176 to St Malo. worth a visit. Dinan too (nice medieval town). Continue then west on the N175 / N 12 toward Guingamp. Although best going via coastal little roads. Perros Guirrec is a lovely town and the area is stunning. Plenty to visit, boat trips to islands etc...

If you prefer to avoid La Bretagne, you can continue south toward Nantes. Visit Angers on the way and the castle.

Then you would be in the Loire Valley, so visit wine producers and zillions of castles to see.

And how could you avoid Poitiers? Birth place (and burial place) of Alienor D'Aquitaine, medieval queen of France then Queen of England. Mother of Richard Lion heart. Lots of history in Poitiers. Again!

And for the Science (and SciFi) geeks, the "Futuroscope de Poitiers" is supposed to be awesome (even for kids!).
The problem, starting to look at map of France, is that there is so much to see and visit.

Explore and enjoy. I'm sure you will have a great time.

PS one thing that drives my (british) husband crazy about the french: lunch and dinner time. Outside big towns, if you want lunch or dinner it will have to be during strict lunch or dinner hours, don't expect to find a restaurant open/serving food after 2pm for example! However a brasserie is usually a good bet (if the chef is around... which can be tricky outside said lunch / dinner time!) :rofl:

Cheers.

It does mount up though (I am aiming to cross the channel every month this year up to and including September with the exception of August when all the schools turn out for their annual hols + oh yes! The French clog up their own highways with the rush to the coast in August).
For a few quid more it is possible to find an overnight ferry route with a cabin, which equates to one night with a bed rather than staying in a hotel; on balance though, I still prefer the short sea routes for many reasons.
In the case of travelling with a family, my experience (well in the past regarding the children bit) is to get the crossing over and done with asap.

Maria41 makes a point that is often quoted = "boring northern France"; but, for the Brits this can be a perception based on the rush to get to a southern destination and the quick drive down the auto routes.
In fact, northern France has lots of connections with England going back to the Norman conquest (what else) + there are masses of WW1 commonwealth war graves for anyone interested in such history. And, we haven't touched on WW2 and the beaches of Normandy. :innocent:

yep, the little cemetries around the WW1 battlefields are somethiing every British person should see at least once in their life, very sobering, as is the Thiepval memorial, it's part of our heritage and our history after all, it's what shaped the country we live in today and 100 years on the scars are still there.

The Somme also happens to be very beautiful!

I am actually french :mchappy: although I've been in the UK for 16 years now!

But the perception of french people is also that most of the north is not very interesting. Most of the north "Departements" were industrial, flat land, coal mining etc... There are pleasant places, I'm sure! I was told Lille can be nice.

Le Touquet is also pleasant in its own ways, as is Cayeux Sur Mer or Amiens... But, it pale in comparison with regions further south, in my opinion... Anything south , east of west of Paris you will struggle not to like... Each region has its own cuisine and history is everywhere. Plenty of medieval towns. Burgondy is awesome. And the wine is to die for! :)

Certainly it is so: I lived in Mons for a while, just over the border, and I spent a lot of time visiting the prominent WW1 locations, including Verdun, + a few of those from WW2.
I've never got around to visiting Crecy or Agincourt, but they are in my bucket list.


Yes again! I think Le Touquet still runs the sand/beaches races.

Amiens is part of the WW1 locations; I will be going by that way tomorrow and will be in Burgundy the next day, en route to the Jura and the Haute-Savoie/Chamonix:thumbup1:

Yep, that's another point: the French roads are virtually empty compared with the UK, including the autoroutes (motorways).
But, yes again, that is probably when we all get it wrong at times, especially (for me) doing 3 point turns on single carriageways in the dark; not recommended actually.
I believe the "empty road" syndrome is what lures foreign drivers into problems in the UK - momentarily they go back into driving on their own side of the road, and then, around the blind bend, comes a UK person as a reality check.

Just for the record, I have now driven across France for a day and a half, and I have seen next to no police apart from those who took a cusory glance at my passport in Dover, and a few Gendarme who were doing some kind of marching exercise; they appeared out of the woods and next to the highway as I passed - they were complete with their reflective jackets which served to remind me that I forgot mine and it is back in the UK. Doh!

So, to ride two up through France, would we need one, two, or no hi-vis vests?
Will we need spare bulbs and a breathalyser kit.
What if you had a breathalyser but after a heavy night used it to check you were ok to drive/ride............ can you say to the peelers "sorry officer, I'm as rough as a badgers arse and had to use it to ensure I was fit to drive. Here look, I've still got it under my seat, I didn't want to litter your gorgeous countryside."

You will realise that this particular thread has been about driving in France.

There have been a lot of earlier threads about riding in France so I will limit my own comment thus:- I have seen very few bikes in the last few days while driving across all of the north of France into the Alps - the vast majority of those riders were French and they were not wearing any hi-vis clothing.
Yes, you are expected to carry spare bulbs but no for the breathalyser kit business (supposedly, that was a proposal when Sarkhosy was the President and it has been placed "on hold" since he was not re-elected; it is also said that his brother-in-law owned the breathalyser factory - make of that rumour what you will, but please don't say that politics is boring!).
For the rest of discussion about riding in France just look back a little for when the weather was last good enough for such activity - loads of things about speed cameras for instance. :innocent:

I did 3,500 miles through France last July on a Kawasaki Versys, camping and hostelling. in September i was two up on a Hayabusa. Two totally different trips and roads. Absolultley brilliant. I loved it. From Calais to Millau then over to Italy border.

I want to go back !!!! Not a problem anywhere, :funmeteryes:

However, at the beginning of March it was re-introduced as some dick thought it was a good idea.
They then ruled that the fine for not having one was scrapped.

Soooo the state of play is. YES, you need a breathalyser, NO, you will not be fined for not having one.

I don't carry them. Car or bike. Why would you?

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I've driven a few hundred Km over the past few days from France into Switzerland and seen just one bike rider wearing hi viz stuff (and that was in Switzerland).
OK, there were not a lot of bikes around compared with the height of summer, but there were a few out for a day ride last Saturday, including on part of the route des Grande Alps (which was snow free and dry); sports bikes and Harleys mainly - no sign of intrepid adventurers in the daily temps of about -6 cent at about 1000m ASL.

Glad I haven't bought any. :innocent: But I did invest in a nice new, shiny hi viz vest for about 6 euro when I realised that the other one was left behind in the UK.