Problems Buying a Bike in Madrid
 

Hello,

I have a 6 week long trip planned and I am trying to buy a bike in Madrid with little success so far. I can see that there are plenty of bikes online at the dealer websites but I can't get any of the dealerships to respond.

I want to buy a bike and have the bill of sale, and title shipped to me in the US so that I can register it here and be good to go when I arrive.

Is there anyone in Madrid that has contacts or is willing to act as a proxy for me to help?

I'm looking for something basic like a gs500, this one is perfect.
suzuki gs 500 487 de color azul/blanco del año 2002 con 62000km Madrid 6309918

I arrive in Madrid on the 6th of July.

Thanks!

I'm not clear whether you're planning to register the bike in the US, or in Spain.

If the former, you might want to begin by determining whether you can actually register the Spanish bike in the US. In order to do so, you'd have to permanently import the bike, which would require that it conform with all sorts of safety and emissions standards. More to the point, this would have to be confirmed officially by a process called homologation, which is expensive and time consuming. Then you'd have to pay duties. Here's a reference to get you started: https://www.cbp.gov/trade/basic-impo.../importing-car

If the above doesn't apply to your situation or if it's unhelpful for some other reason, please feel free to ignore.

Mark

Sorry, to be more clear. I am not importing the bike to the US, but I am registering it to New York. I called the NYS DMV and I can do this and I do not have to pay import taxes or inspection. I do have to insure the bike in NY as well as obtain green-card insurance for the trip.

Jody,

In my humble view I believe you're trying to do something that's impossible.

Bike would need to be imported and go through homologation process (lights are different, and I believe some other parts too), as Mark has already stated.
Then some fees for sure need to be paid alongside the importation costs.

All in all, buy a bike in Europe (search for Motofeirme in Ireland), ride it, and sell it, being still on EU plates. Problem solved and if you need green card insurance we can provide one (PM me for details).

Cheers
Dooby

This is so contrary to my understanding that I'm completely baffled. Hope you'll let us know how this goes.

Mark

Buying in Spain
 

Intersteller Jody,

Several years ago I did purchase a zero K (brand new) BMW G650gs in Spain. it was explained to me that as a US citizen, I would not have been able to purchase the bike, but since , by marriage I am also a citizen of the European Union and have my EU ID as a Spanish resident, I was permitted to purchase the bike. Rosa del desierto also bought a BMW G650gs as a citizen of Spain.

A complication arrived that I would have to have a Spanish driving permit - to qualify for a Spanish Driving permit - one must contract with a driving school, take weeks/ months of lessons dependent on how often classes were offered...and then pass a very difficult written and more difficult riding test. The cost of the driving school was about 600 euros... more like 1000 euros today...

Through a stroke of good luck , while the US drivers license was not recognized in Spain for a EU resident, (Europe and Argentina have an agreement) my Argentine Drivers permit was accepted. To obtain the qualifying driving permit in Argentina, I only needed to submit my US license - for photo copy - and take a very easy written test - in Spanish. Good that I did that to meet Argentine requirements.

so, I agree with Frgich ( Dooby) suggestion to Buy if legal ????as a US tourist visiting Spain - which I doubt and then sell if legal in Spain or in the EU.

Remember your insurance will only be valid if you are operating a bike legally, If there is any question albout the legality of the title etc - your insurance will become null and void.

Xfiltrate

Hi..you really think you can register it in usa with a piece of paper? It would have to be physically there to have vin verified and checked for emissions or that it meets usa standards. .just my 2 cents..have you checked Horizons unlimited travelers selling bikes ? Usually they are dual sports

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Also I suspect that things over here work rather differently than in your country , some EU countries allow you to register a used vehicle "for export" , others require that you have at least a local tax registration number , and usually resident status too.
At that point the registration document is updated with the new owner's details. ( Not sure if anyone will know what a "title " is here. )
I've no idea about Spain but I suspect the dealers you wrote to had no way of understanding exactly what it is that you need . I assume you wrote in Spanish, right ?

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Buying in Spain
 

Donmanolo,
Considering the originator of this thread stated no dealers responded, the reason is "dealers" in Spain are not permitted to sell bikes to foreign tourists and this is why they did not respond. Most brand "dealer" agencies in Spain have at least one bilingual employee.
I am fluent in Spanish, have a total of more than 30 years living in Spain, Mexico, Central and South America, and discovered by my own experience....that foreign tourists who have entered Spain on a tourist visa - cannot "legally" purchase motor vehicles and register same in Spain. This is not true for residents of the EU, they can!

As for exporting, that might be a whole other ball game. I am sure citizens of Spain export motor vehicles, but to export beyond the EU, an export license or diplomatic permiso for diplomats.... must be acquired (a whole lot of hoops) and as has been stated here, the motor vehicle must meet all requirements of the receiving country. I am not confident a tourist can purchase a motor vehicle in Spain and register it in any of the fifty States.
It would be very interesting to discover in which States this was possible as it might have value for those transferring titles from US registered motor vehicles in a foreign country. In my experience California is one of a handful of States (maybe the only one) that will transfer title to another resident of California without the motor vehicle physically being present in the State for inspection etc.
The due diligence of the State of California to follow up on the address of the new owner in California is questionable, unless there is a reason ie: an accident etc. If at that point it is discovered the new owner is/was not legally a resident of California at the time of the transfer, the transfer becomes illegal.
I do not know the regulations for the State of New York and would appreciate very much any such information. I am always looking for legal venues for title transfers for those selling a motor vehicle in a foreign country but registered in the USA.
xfiltrate

Xfiltrate

Sorry xfiltrate, but that's what you've written in posts #6 and #9 simply is not true.

The ability to purchase and legally register a motor vehicle in Spain has nothing to do with being a citizen of a particular country or having a particular visa. What is important is that you have an NIE tax reference (foreigner's tax registration) and that you are on the padron (have a proven address that the bike can be registered to).

Additionally, providing you have a photo ID type of driving licence, you are also not required to take a Spanish driving test.

However, OP's case is clearly a lost cause unless he can get someone resident in Spain to buy the bike for him and register it in their name at their address.

Difference of Opinion...
 

Hi Tim,

found here: Cars & Motor vehicles in Spain | Spanish-Living.com

"Europeans can avoid paying the 12% special vehicle registration tax as Spain is the only country in Europe that has this tax. When buying your car all you have to do is request that the car be fitted with a tourist license plate, rather than a full Spanish license plate. You will have to renew this every year which will cost you approximately 150€. You can repeat this as many years as you want.

Buying a car on Spanish plates can save a lot of complications and has certain advantages. The rules are that you have to have a residency or own a property or be able to present a Certificado de Empadronamiento (a certificate to show that you are registered as living in the community). An addional benefit of providing this address is that El Trafico will send you the bill by post directly. Although this may not sound much like a benefit initially, you might appreciate it when it comes to selling the car and you need to sell and transfer the car to somebody else, you wont get hit suddenly with 2 years of worth of traffic violations and fines (multas)."

Unfortunately for you, the topic of this thread is not "Europeans" purchasing motor vehicles in Spain, but citizens of the United States purchasing motor vehicles in Spain and you are incorrect. A simple call to any reputable motor vehicle in Spain will forward my point of view. I know it is difficult to let go of the Eurocentric point of view, but Tim, you are wrong and I am right unless you can produce some documentation other than your personal condemnation.

In my post I excluded EU residents from my statements, perhaps you missed that?

Regarding the driving permits: found here: Driving your car & buying a car in Spain. Practical legal information and advice by iAbogado, your English-speaking Spanish lawyers in Madrid | iAbogado

"If you are from outside the EU and wish to drive throughout the Spanish territory for long periods, then your driving license must be translated into Spanish by an official translator. You can also drive on an international license. After 1 year, you must obtain a Spanish driving license as you cannot continue driving under your own license duly translated, nor under an international permit. You should then apply for a Spanish driving license for which you must proof your residency in Spain."

So, a tourist, without documented proof of residence may drive in Spain with a USA driving permit plus international license for up to one year.... but for a citizen of the USA to purchase a motor vehicle in Spain a proof of residence is required. So, once a resident of Spain, a Spanish license is required. This is how an attorney explained this particular point to me. In brief, if you purchase a motor vehicle in Spain, you must have a Spanish driving permit.

tim, I know you will consider this an obscure point of law, but it is the law.

xfiltrate

Which is what I wrote above (padron is short for empadronamiento). But you still need an NIE as well.

Most USA states have a reciprocal agreement with Spain re driving licences. Non EU nationals living in Spain can use their own licence for six months, EU nationals for two years. If you are then take out Spanish residency you are expected to get a Spanish licence.

You seem to be confusing Spanish residency with having a property that you reside in; the two are completely different.

Anyway, all the guy wants to do is to buy a bike and ride it for a short while and the rules above clearly don't apply to visitors and tourists.

Absolute rubbish. I own a Spanish-registered 4x4 and a Spanish-registered enduro bike. The new driving licence regulations (from Jan 2015) only apply to ex-pats with Spanish residency. And although I own a Spanish property and am on the padron, I am not a registered Spanish resident, I am just an irregular visitor

Facts, just the facts
 

Most of the time it is best to cite credible sources as I have done in my previous posts, this thread. Note the "quotes"
Tim, those are quotes from reputable sources, where are your sources?

USA drivers licenses accompanied by an international driving permit or a Spanish translation are legal in Spain for tourists. But, once a tourist from the USA qualifies for purchasing a Spanish registered vehicle, he/she must have a Spanish driving permit as explained below. There is a 6 month grace period allowing the US citizen to use his/her valid USA driving permit if accompanied by a Spanish translation or an international driving permit.

Spain will exchange licenses with many countries including most EU countries, but it is necessary to turn in previous country's license to Spain, Spain will not exchange driving permits with any particular State of the USA, holders of driving permits from the USA must take a course and pass the tests to obtain a Spanish driving permit.

Below is a link that pretty much covers the topic of driving permits/exchanges in Spain.

As explained in my previous post , my Argentine driving permit was accepted in Spain as it does subscribe to the number/letter system described below.

Driving in Spain using a foreign driver’s licence | Moving to Spain | Expatica Spain

Yes, Tim, but a non EU citizen must declare Spanish residency to qualify to purchase.... As I explained in PMs to you, the regulations are different for you as a member of the EU and citizens of the USA. An EU address will allow you as an irregular visitor to Spain, but this is not available to citizens of the USA.

A clue is that EU driving permits have a letter/number system indicating the type/weight of vehicles that may be operated with that particular license. The USA driving permits do not subscribe to the EU system.

Tim, perhaps proclaiming the opinions of others as "rubbish" might be less beneficial than citing sources and letting the others decide. So I suppose your two year grace period has yet to run its' course or do you have a Spanish driving permit?

xfiltrate

The purpose of this thread is to answer the question posed by the original poster. Like almost every thread you participate in, you have gone way off topic.

I am not at all interested in your links, I didn't access them.

I don't feel the need to indulge you by posting links to verify what I say about Spain. I am living here quite legally, you are in Argentina. QED.

I have already stated that as far as I am concerned, the OP's case is a lost cause unless he can get someone resident in Spain to buy the bike for him and register it in their name at their address.

If you have anything of use to the OP, feel free to give him advice, but I don't have the time or energy to waste in sparring with you.

Because the consensus that what I was attempting is not possible, I called the NY DMV again and talked to a different agent. She verified that I could not do what I wanted, and that the other agent was incorrect.

Thanks, for the help.

It looks like I will try and find a good rental company.