Notes from a September 2011 ride through Romania, Bulgaria, Turkey, and Greece
 

Hello All:

For the past 3 weeks, I have been riding through Romania, Bulgaria, Turkey, and Greece; I thought it might be useful for others planning to do the same if I provided information to answer some of the questions I had before starting this trip. I'm travelling on a Canadian passport with a Canadian plated motorcycle (a ST 1100).

CUSTOMS

I've had excellent experiences at all border crossings.

The Romanians are quite thorough - they wanted to see my passport and my vehicle registration documents. They were also the most friendly and sociable customs folks - they were curious about my motorcycle, where I planned to go, etc. and offered me many useful suggestions about where to visit, good roads to ride, etc. I spent 10 minutes on the entry formalities and another 20 minutes afterwards socializing with all the border guards. This pretty much mirrored my previous experience with Romanian customs when I visited the country in 2008. I think that the Romanian government has provided the customs folks with some on-the-job training, letting them know that they are the first people visitors meet when they enter Romania and first impressions are important.

The Romanians still stamp everyone in and out of the country, despite the fact that they are now part of the Schengen group.

Bulgarian customs was pretty laid back - the guy took a look at my passport, gave it a stamp and waved me through with a smile. Same on the way out. Fast and friendly, about a 30 second stop in each direction.

Turkish customs and immigration staff were very detail oriented, but again, very friendly, courteous, and helpful. The whole process was kind of complex and took about 45 minutes. I needed to purchase a visa (because I am not an EC citizen) - that cost €45 for 3 months. Various currencies were accepted for that - Euros, Swiss Francs, USD, etc. Then came the vehicle formalities - looking at the registration document, making an entry in a computer (apparently to ensure that I did not leave the bike behind in Turkey), and providing a second stamp in my passport for the motorcycle. Then a police check, then finally visiting the customs folks for baggage inspection. By the time I got to the customs guy (who had been observing me moving around from department to department), I was almost a familiar face to all the staff in the office, and the customs guy just waved me through - he told me, with a big smile, that he could think of no good reason to need to go and look at my motorcycle or luggage.

I had to buy a 'validation' of sorts for my EU green card, because there was an 'X' in the space for TR, indicating that my insurance coverage was not valid in Turkey. That cost €9 and was good for 3 months. Interesting to note that the cost for any motorcycle is €9, and the insurance underwriter (at the border crossing) is Alissa, which many of us know from buying green card policies for the EU. That was a fairly quick and trouble-free process.

Finally - after all that - there was yet one more stop 50 meters down the road, at the "final checker" who looked at all the stamps and made sure that everything was in order.

Everyone was very nice, very helpful, but it did take a long time and there were a lot of complex procedures. I think I showed my passport, vehicle papers, and insurance document to about 4 different people, including the "final checker". The same process happened in reverse when I left Turkey. So, for those of you planning to visit Turkey - get all your papers organized before you hit the first border crossing, and don't put them back into storage until you are at least a couple of kilometers inside the country!

Entering Greece (from Turkey) was a non-event - one immigration control guy who looked at my passport, put a stamp on it, and waved me through. About 1 minute total.

I think that the trick with border crossings is to be relaxed, don't ever be in a hurry, lift the visor of your helmet and take your sunglasses off before you come to a stop - that shows courtesy to the border guards, and they then return the courtesy to us.

ROADS

I try to stick to secondary and tertiary roads - I don't like motorways. The Romanian roads were surprisingly good, except for one tertiary road that I took across the Carpathian mountains - I should have had a BMW GS for that one. Bulgarian motorways and secondary roads were superb, almost on par with Swiss roads, but their tertiary roads are for sure 'dual-sport' roads, not at all suited to a ST 1100. Bulgarian roads are either flawless or impassable, there is no mid-range.

Turkish roads were excellent in every respect.

The E90 expressway across Greece is like an autobahn, but every other Greek road is neglected, suffers from vegetation encroaching on the sides of the road, is poorly marked, and often full of surprises (very dangerous potholes, or changing from pavement to dirt without any notice, etc.)

All things considered, I was pleasantly surprised with the quality of the roads in Romania, Bulgaria, and Turkey.

Motorcycles are absolutely, positively exempt from the need to have vignettes in both Romania and Bulgaria. This is "for sure", "guaranteed", and "carved in stone". On several occasions, I attempted to buy a Romanian or Bulgarian vignette, and was told by officials that it was not needed for motorcycles.

Turkey has an electronic toll collection system on the major expressways that is not really well suited to visitors. All toll stations - both going in and coming out - are totally unattended, and it seems one is supposed to buy an electronic card (RF card, transponder, whatever) in the cities before entering the expressways, and swipe this card when entering and leaving the toll motorway system. I didn't know this, so, I just drove through the entry point (nothing happened), and drove through the exit point (a bell rang). We'll see if they sent the bill to my home in Canada... or if I get tossed in jail the next time I visit Turkey.

There were a few speed cameras in Romania (though it appeared that most of them had been abandoned and were not in service), none that I saw in Bulgaria, electronic monitoring in Turkey, and Greece has speed cameras everywhere. The Greek ones are set up as 'speed traps' - 20 meters past the point where the limit changes from 90 km/h to 50 km/h in the middle of nowhere. I had a Garmin GPS with an up to date speed camera database. Even though I generally ride at close to the speed limit, I would consider this to be absolutely essential equipment for riding in Greece... don't even think of going to Greece without a speed camera database. FYI, the 2012 Garmin cartography for all four countries is really excellent, with 100% coverage, although the quality of the routing in Turkish cities is kind of poor (I don't think Garmin has enough detail data about the various road widths, road capacities, etc. just yet).

I think it would be unwise to ride after dark in any of these countries on any roads except possibly major expressways that have been recently constructed... there is just too big a risk of coming across a huge pothole, or broken pavement, or an unmarked/unsigned hazard. I only rode during daylight hours.

DRIVERS

Remember - with the exception of Istanbul, I generally stayed in rural areas.

Romanian rural drivers were generally quite courteous. Contrary to what I have read elsewhere, they also tended to obey the rules - meaning, obey red lights, yield the right of way, and generally be cautious and courteous. In the one large city I visited (Constanta), the taxi drivers were pretty reckless, passing on the right, running red lights, etc. but everyone else was pretty good.

The Bulgarians were also pretty tame.

Things got a bit more stressful in Turkey, most especially in Istanbul. Heck, there are 20 million people in Istanbul, and every one of them has a car. Traffic there is hopeless, often total gridlock both in the city and on the expressways. Drivers are aggressive and don't give a sh*t about anyone else. During the three days I spent in Istanbul, I was sideswiped twice and rear-ended once... and in each case, the other driver didn't bother stopping and clearly didn't think that anything unusual had happened.

Greece is also pretty bad - motorists generally don't pay any attention to traffic lights, one-way street signs, the paint markings on the road, or any of those other little road decorations. But, they generally move slower than in Turkey and are less aggressive.

To sum up - no big worries in Romania or Bulgaria, but look out for your own life in Turkey and Greece, because no-one else in those two countries has the least bit of concern for your life, your vehicle, or your well-being.

SECURITY

I stay in hotels, and generally speaking, I was not particularly worried about security of my motorcycle. In all the counties, large touring motorcycles are quite uncommon, and the hotel operators always permitted me to park the moto in the front of the hotel, proximate to the main entrance. I never saw any evidence of the moto being tampered with.

I also did not encounter any areas where I had any concern for my personal security. Romania has a problem with one minority ethnic group aggressively begging, and on one occasion, I could see I was getting sized up for a possible intimidation (or maybe a robbery) by a couple of ratty looking adults when I was walking back to my hotel from a restaurant after dark, but for the most part, the beggars are children (some as young as 3 or 4) and women. If you just keep walking, or call the restaurant staff to shoo them off, they are not a problem.

I stopped once to help a group of Roma people who had a flat tire on a horse-cart that was full of scrap metal. At first, they thought I was from outer space, but once we communicated (through hand gestures, etc.) that I had a tire plug kit and an air pump, they were the friendliest people you could ever want to meet. There were about 20 people travelling in that group, little kids, teens, adults, old men, grandmothers, the works. The kids liked the motorcycle and they all wanted to sit on it. We got the tire fixed, sort-of inflated, and had tea afterwards. I think that the Roma who still travel and live in the rural areas are doing OK, it's the folks who are down on their luck and gravitate to the urban areas that are having troubles and not fitting in.

Feral dogs are a problem in both Romania and Greece - they tend to run around in packs. There are more dog problems in Romania than in Greece. I didn't see any feral dogs at all in Turkey or Bulgaria.

ECONOMY

Romania appears to be in real trouble. Abandoned factories (from the pre-1991 revolution days) are everywhere, and nothing new has been built. There are a lot of abandoned, partially constructed buildings - perhaps fallout from the 2008 economic contraction. In the countryside, you won't find anyone under the age of 65, and all the senior-citizen farmers are gathering their crops by hand, cutting them with scythes, stooking the grain by hand, and transporting the crops with horse or mule-pulled carts. It's like riding into a time warp and going back to the 1920s.

One day, I rode for 6 hours through the countryside (secondary roads) and could not find a single cafe or restaurant. In the rural areas, there doesn't appear to be a functional cash economy anymore... folks have gone back to barter. Near the cities, hookers hang around the road entrances to all the truck stops. In the cities, elderly women (I mean REALLY elderly - 70s and 80s) are standing near churches, quietly hoping someone will give them a loaf of bread or some small change. That is really sad.

Bulgaria, on the other hand, seems to be doing very well. Cross the Danube and you will find three huge John Deere combines - each worth well over $200,000 - running line abreast and combining a 60 meter wide swath. Instead of small, patchwork fields, Bulgaria has huge farms - bigger than some in western Canada - and very modern agricultural practices.

It is noteworthy that I saw a great number of young families - parents with kids under 10 years old - out for strolls every night in the Bulgarian villages and cities. That was a big contrast to Romania, where I saw very few children (except the beggars) and very few people between 20 and 65 outside of urban areas.

Turkey is an economic powerhouse that is running at full steam ahead. The prosperity and growth (construction, restaurants, etc.) there is amazing. I think that the economy in Turkey is in a lot better shape than the economy in Western Europe or North America. If that country was listed on the stock exchange, I would by shares in it. In every respect, Western Turkey is on par with the first world.

Greece is a write-off. Abandoned factories are everywhere (similar to Romania), about 20% of the retail space is empty, and the only economic activity still going seems to be restaurants and bars, where, as mentioned before, everyone is trying to pocket the cash and not remit the VAT or declare the income for tax purposes. Any doubts I might have had before this visit about Greece's economic outlook have been put to rest - this place is going to go broke, and go broke in a big way. The cause of the problem is simple: No-one here wants to obey any rules, including the rules that say "pay your taxes". This country might have been a great civilization at some time in the past, but today it's no different from sub-Saharan Africa.

What is most worrisome about Greece - at least in my opinion, anyway - is the amount of vandalism in the country. There is graffiti everywhere. The majority of the road signs have been defaced with spray paint - not marked up with graffiti, but simply defaced or obliterated. Posters and graffiti cover all abandoned storefronts, mothballed factories have had their windows broken. This sure doesn't bode well for the future.

OVERALL SUMMARY

I liked Romania. I enjoyed it the first time I visited (2008, when I did the north-west corner) and I also enjoyed it this time (southern part, west to east). Despite the economic difficulties the country is going through, I will go back again - it is a beautiful country with lots to explore. BTW, don't change money near the border crossings in either Romania or Bulgaria - there will be lots and lots of money-changing shops in the cities of those two countries, and the rates are far, far better in the cities where there is very active competition.

Bulgaria was a very pleasant surprise - nice country, nice people. I didn't get to see as much of it as I wanted to - just the part between Romania and Turkey. Like Romania, Bulgaria offers great value to the visitor. Good hotels for about €40 a night, good food for about €10 a day, and pleasant people in both countries.

Turkey (at least, the European portion that I visited - I didn't cross the Bosporus) is a fully developed country, on par with Canada, the USA, or Germany. It's a heck of a lot better developed than Romania, Bulgaria, or Greece. It's difficult to find places to change money except near the border areas, but there are ATMs everywhere that accept North American and European bank cards. Turkey is not cheap, prices are similar to France & Germany for like services.

Greece is going downhill. High taxes (23% VAT on everything), the locals always try to pocket the VAT themselves (you don't get a printed receipt for anything unless you ask), and no maintenance or repair on any of the infrastructure - public or private. I have been trying to buy a postage stamp for a postcard for 3 days now - have visited about 8 post offices, every one has been closed and doesn't have a sign in the window indicating what the hours of operation are.

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Hope these notes are useful to anyone planning a visit to any of these countries in the future.

Michael

Roma in Romania
http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/a...ainRomania.jpg

Ruins in Romania
http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/a...an/Romania.jpg

Route Taken (clockwise direction)
http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/a...urSept2012.jpg

Thanks for taking the time to do this report :thumbup1:

Im heading that way May 2012 and always looking for more info on those countries

Thanks again

Geordie aka Will

Will:

FWIW, I went into Romania via southern Switzerland, the 'South Tyrol' province of Italy, Slovenia, then Hungary. I chose this route primarily because my Green Card insurance only includes the EU countries, and all four of those were included in my coverage.

The South Tyrol portion of Italy is really nice, absolutely awesome twisty mountain roads, not too crowded, and the whole province runs with Teutonic efficiency - in fact, German, not Italian, is the most common language.

Slovenia and Hungary are both pleasant countries to go through.

I think you will get more than enough of the "Balkan" experience just spending time in Romania and Bulgaria - really no need to go into what was formerly Yugoslavia unless you really, really want to visit there.

By the way, the weather has been amazing - up into the 30s every day so far in September. It is still summer here.

Michael

Hi Michael

Its the start of my RTW trip, with Turkey being the jump off point to the East.

Ive done quite a few European trips venturing to Spain and Portugal and East to Poland and Slovakia.

As for the Balkans I spent a year in 1996 wearing a Blue beret :thumbup1: its on my wish list to return with a motorbike and see it all again

Thanks
Geordie aka Will

Thanks for sharing this excellent report!

Any more pics like these? Do you have an account where we can see more of them?

They're not. Neither Bulgaria nor Romania have singed the Schengen Agreement (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement). They're part of the European Union but not the Schengen area. Which is why they still stamp everyone who is not from the European Union in and out of the country ;)

Great write up with essential details. Thanks for sharing your experiences.

MJ:

Ah-ha - then that explains all the stamps in my passport! :smartass:

Sorry for the error of assumption - not being a European citizen, I assumed that membership in the EU also brought with it participation in the Schengen 'free movement' club. Clearly, that is not the case.

Thanks for pointing out the error.

Michael

Just a bit more detail information.

Those visiting from the EU also have to buy a visa. IIRC, it is £10 or $US or Euro can be used to buy it.

According to some information put out by the Turkish govn, it is the 16th largest economy in the world.

But, yes, thanks for the information and impressions of those countries.
Greece is going to be in the news, for all the wrong reasons, over and over.

Thanks PanEuropean for your very useful report on your experiences.

My wife and I intend to travel on our Pan European from the UK to Greece and Turkey next year and then double back to Athens in Greece from where we'll fly on to Australia and a friend will ride the bike back to the UK.

The bike is UK registered and we are all UK citizens, but I recently noted in the Lonely Planet Guide to Greece (albeit a 2004 edition) that Greek Customs make a note in your passport if you enter as a tourist with a vehicle and you are unable to leave the country without it. It sounds like that wasn't the case when you entered Greece from Turkey.

Can I ask whether the stamp they put in your passport made any mention of the bike at all?

I don't want a situation where they refuse to let us get on the plane, and/or refuse to let the bike be ridden out of Greece by someone who didn't bring it into the country.

If anyone else has any recent experiences that are relevant, I'd be grateful.

No, no mention of the bike at all, and they didn't even look at the licence plate to see where I was from - just a single standard EU entry stamp for me (the individual) with no notations of any kind. It was one of my faster experiences entering the EU.

Now, whether Greece will still be in the EU next year is another question altogether... :confused1:

Michael

Thanks. Looks like we'll be OK.

Many thanks for the report, some good info. Looking to head that way next summer.
Good to hear that both Romania and Bulgaria do not require a vignettes.
Oh, and will have to keep an eye out for the dogs.

Travelling through this area myself at this moment, resting up in Budapest for a few days.

There was one special move that was committed by the drivers in Romania especially nearer the cities.

The Romanian Slingshot

Traffic held up by truck/horse with around at least 8 cars waiting to overtake with indicators all blinking........

The 9th car to arrive at the very back of the queue normally decides to overtake all the other cars/truck and tends to do it at 180kph.

Those life saver checks have proved their worth several times already.

Hi, i am a huge fan of both Romania & Bulgaria which are great places for trail riding, they have a sense of adventure that Western Europe doesn't have and are of course considerably cheaper.
I have always found the horse & carts with 20 people on them incredible friendly and will instantly pull over to let you pass but beware the large black 4x4 's they will happily run you down.
another word of advise, if there is a car wanting to overtake coming towards you he will pull out into your path as he expects you to move over.
Andy

Very useful report, Michael. That area of Europe is on my radar so thanks for posting. Some more photos would have made it better ;)

Great report, thanks
 

Michael, we just returned "home" to Spain after 3 months ride through France, Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Austria, Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Montenegro, Albania, Macedonia, Greece, Turkey, where we did cross the Bosphorus and rode the Black Sea coast all the way to Sinop then through Sanfranbolu, Goreme etc to the southern coast of Turkey and then along the coastal route to Izmir and a ferry to Greece and Italy and eventually to Barcelona.

Thanks for your well organized and accurate report. We discovered that 50 Turkish Lire (approx $27 USD) buys a toll card good throughout Turkey for toll roads. We purchased two cards at the toll office just after the big bridge spanning the Bosphorus...we each ride our own BMW G650 GS , but it was later explained that 2 motorcycles traveling together need only purchase only one card if they pass the unmanned toll booth side by side. We used the cards several times and each time we swiped the card the available balance on the card showed in the swipe window at unmanned toll booths. The card was sufficiently charged up for our tour of Turkey as the toll roads are only around the larger cities... We too, did a lot of trail riding.... FYI we had three nasty encounters with "Kangal" Turkish sheep dogs , this is a special breed of dogs outfitted with spiked collars as protection from wolves. These are not feral dogs they are highly valued and very well trained. We were spared two times by a few words from sheep herders, the other time we rode away "express." I always carry a medium sledge hammer handle, not the hammer, slipped into the straps of my tail bag for easy access.... I figure if times get rough it would be good to have. I am older and traveling with a very beautiful woman.

Please note, two motorcycles using one toll card is common practice in Turkey, but I cannot say whether it is actually legal or not. Talking of tolls, once in Mexico, a criminal gang took over all the toll booths for a major super highway and began collecting tolls. I suppose there was some complicity on the part of the toll workers for all were released by the gang unharmed, and the gang collected tolls for almost an hour. I noted the "gang" as we paid our tolls, and yet thought nothing of it until we read about the crime in the following days headlines.

On a more humorous note, this September 2011, we were stopped by an Italian "candid camera" film crew at their fake border for Slovenia. I thought the whole set strange and noted the pristine uniforms of the "border guards" and immediately signaled Elisa something was amiss. We have crossed enough borders to know the border guards never have creases in their pants and starched shirts.... and medals hanging from those starched shirts???? Anyway when the candid camera crew asked for our passports I just said no... we were willing to show our passports, but not hand them over. I began kidding around with the guards about not having any guns... and they finally pointed to the overhead camera and confessed. Anyone else run into this Italian film crew? xfiltrate

Thanks for a great write up Michael. I'm strongly fancying a trip to Bulgaria this summer all thing being well.

I will say though, you're being a little harsh on the Greeks. I spent a lot of time in Greece as a younger man and have a great affinity with the country and it's people. From my understanding of the current crisis it can be traced to the political/fiscal situation that saw them gain entry into the EU in the first place. You can point a finger directly at that bastion of honesty and integrity Goldman Sachs for cooking the books. Thereafter the Greeks, like many EU minnows, were seduced (read fattened for the kill) by a big injection of borrowed money that financed the lavish public sector (as it was under New Labour in the UK). It was high level corruption rather than fecklessness that set them up to fail. Those in positions of public trust betrayed the people, the people themselves had no say in it. Of course it's more complicated than that, but that's the gist of it as I understand.

So Greeks have no intention of willingly complying with the servitude imposed on them for many generations to come and we should all take a leaf from their book. Long before Occupy Wall Street started, Greeks were occupying Syntagma square and elsewhere. They knew, as did the Spanish, they'd been shafted long ago, the rest of the world is simply catching up to the crimes of the banksters.

Well I'm glad I got that off my chest.:smartass:

Very well written report and info. Thanks.

I must do my planned Bulgaria-Romania tour as soon as possible.

Oh, Mudlark, c'mon now! :mchappy: Since independence in 1829, the Greeks have been in default of their debts for more years than they have kept their accounts current!

Heck, their first default took place in the 4th century BC, back when the rest of us were still crawling around in caves. They're professionals at it. :smile3:

Seriously, though - I do feel sorry for the folks remaining there who are getting impacted by what is happening now, but the comments I made about widespread tax evasion (that I experienced first-hand) and vandalism were genuine. I'm honestly not optimistic for the future there.

More to the point, the average day-to-day cost of touring Greece was far higher than the cost of touring all the neighbouring countries. In fact, it was darn close to the daily cost of touring France or Germany. Turkey was about the same daily cost, but the part of Turkey that I visited is a 100% 'first world' fully developed country. Greece is not.

Michael

There are speed cameras in Bulgaria - both mobile and fixed.
As of Jan 2012 there are approx. 25 fixed (the police have 60 mounted enclosures and swap the cameras in them).
There are also 60 police cars with cameras/radars on the dashboard, so if you see a police car parked along the road - slow down.
Radar detectors are legal in Bulgaria, but they will work only with the mobile radars (X-band). Fixed cameras work on Ka band and when the detector screams it will be too late.

here is a link to the list of fixed camera/radars - Cameras in Bulgaria

Great report, Thanks for that PanEuropean, I might go there as soon as next week, was planning to go during summer but plans have changed! Romania is the highlight of my trip, shame I probably wont be able to do Transfagarasan Highway!

I just saw this thread for the first time. I thought it was a great report, with plenty of in-depth information that other riders would want to know. Very good and thanks.

Hi Bruce:

I also live in Victoria, BC (Sidney, to be exact) - if you would like to get together for a coffee sometime in our home town, just send me an instant message.

Because of the nature of my work, I am out of the country a lot (I'm in Santiago, Chile at the moment, having been through Siberia, Japan, Guam, Micronesia, and Tahiti in the past month) and I'll be heading off to the Canadian Arctic, Greenland, Iceland, Europe and Libya for most of April. But, I am sure that we can figure out some way to connect between now and the summer.

Michael

Hi Will! There is a group of 3 of us who will be wandering through Romania in the second half of May - should meet up if we are in the same area?

hi guys... Brit biker based in Brasov - good to meet other bike travelers that come through...and happy to help with advice.... another english guy is just opening a bike freindly guesthouse and camping a few km outside Brasov as well in a really nice location - good to get some folks coming through to inspire him!!
PM me and will give you email n skype contacts etc...

@docsarah

Have sent you a PM regarding my trip :-)

cheers
Geordie aka Will

Gavinbell.
I will be in Brasov around the end of June, on route from Athens back to the UK, so will look out for you.:thumbup1:

I'll PM you to get contact details for the Guesthouse.:D

Rory:thumbup1:

Thanks for taking the time to do this write up, excellent. I'm hoping to ride from England to Mt Ararat probably next year as i have just returned from Morocco.

I lived and worked in Greece and Turkey in the late 90's so I'm hoping to look up old friends and collegues on the way. Thanks for your tips.

Hi: We're Saltspring residents and shipping the bikes over in March to tour Italy to Turkey and enjoyed your informational approach.
I'm hoping that you can help with a roadblock that we have run into with ICBC. They are saying that we can't keep a BC plate on the bikes unless it is insured but they do not insure for Europe? Its a Catch 22. How did you manage this? My bike is insured until July in BC and I would like a refund for the period that it will be out of the country. They say no problem, just turn in the plate... We are going around and around on this.
(I'd PM you but don't post enough to be allowed access.)
Thanks,
Steve.

Juts pay the money. My Aussie bike has to be registered and there is no way to get a refund for the 12 months while it is out of the country

You cannot turn in the plate so you will have to live with it.

Steve:

Uh, I'm a Sidney, BC resident (about 5 km from you, as the crow flies), and I have a much better idea: My moto is already in Europe, with Canadian plates on it - maybe you should just use mine, and while you are away, I can ride yours around the Saanich Peninsula... :)

Anyway, the way plates work is like this: In theory, you should keep the BC plate current (in theory - more on that later). As you point out, your ICBC coverage is useless to you in Europe (no North American insurance company, anywhere, offers North American coverage that is also good in Europe). So, you buy a European insurance policy. These are offered for "out of Europe" vehicles (vehicles plated outside of Europe) at quite attractive prices, however, they only provide liability insurance, not fire, theft, etc.

There is a discussion here in the forum about how to get this insurance - have a look at this link: Here is where you get the cheap european green card insurance. See posts #49, 83, 116, and 126 in that thread, I won't repeat it all here. I buy from Mototouring in Italy, you can trust those people.

Now, about the BC plates: You need to keep your BC plate (in other words, your ICBC coverage) current in Canada simply because it is required by law that you have insurance to operate a vehicle in Canada. However, there is no benefit whatsoever from keeping the ICBC coverage valid when your vehicle is in Europe - first, there is no law saying you need (non-existent) ICBC coverage while you are in Europe, and second, you are not riding on the roads of Canada - hence no need to pay any form of road tax that might be collected via the licence plate fee. Your licence plate is tied, in a way, to your ownership of the vehicle, and your ownership status does not change when the plate sticker is expired.

So, if you plan to have the bike out of Canada for a long time, just remove the ICBC sticker from the plate once you get to Europe. Most European plates do not have any kind of validity sticker on them, the police are not used to looking at or looking for such stickers. Just drive around with the 'naked' licence plate on the back, and the European green card insurance coverage in your pocket. I've been doing that for many years (with an Ontario plate), and have never had any difficulties.

On the other hand, if you only plan to have the bike in Europe for a few months, it might be more trouble-free to keep the ICBC coverage in place, so that you can throw a leg over the bike and ride it home after it arrives back in Canada. I believe that you can call ICBC and 'suspend' the coverage for periods of one month or more - this will prevent you from pouring money down the drain paying for Canadian insurance cover when the bike is in Europe.

If all else fails, cancel the policy today and hand in the plate, buy a new policy (with one month validity only) one month prior to your planned departure to Europe (gets you a new plate and lets you ride the bike to wherever you plan to ship it to Europe from), then let the policy expire the day your bike flies over to Europe. When the bike arrives in Europe, just remove the stickers from the licence plate using a hair dryer and a little bit of solvent. When you return to Canada, go to ICBC and renew the policy - that will let you ride the bike out of the air freight shed and get it home. Be aware that it is horribly expensive to leave a moto in an air freight shed (fees of $50 to $100 a day for storage are not uncommon), so perhaps take your paperwork with you when you fly home, to allow you to renew the ICBC coverage before the bike arrives, so you have the stickers to put on the plate when you go to the freight shed to pick it up.

Michael

PanEuropean Thanks for the heads up Good info to know .:D

Dream of motorbike riding in Europe!! :helpsmilie:
 

Hello,

I am Swati, a 26 year old solo female rider from India. I always had this dream of riding motor bike in Europe, even when I had no hope of realizing it ever, being from a middle class family.

Well, out of nowhere I am coming to Bulgaria, Europe this summer!!! :clap:
Mmm I have to be on shoe string backpacker budget to survive from 18th May to 31st May, 2015 in Europe.

Can anyone help me by giving me details about cheapest possible deals of motorbike rental or if anyone can lend me their personal motorbike or accompany me on this Europe road trip adventure?
I know requesting for anyone's personal motorbike is a lot, but I wouldn't mind lending mine if it can help a young adventurer realize a dream :)

I will be grateful for any help, if anyone can join me for a little span, or help me plan my trip or if anyone could let me ride their motorbike even for a day.. :)

A rider soul would understand what this dream means to me..
I believe in miracles.. Hoping someday your miracle becomes a reality! bier

Thanks for reading..
Cheers,
Swati

Hi Swati:

You might be able to find a company in Bulgaria that will rent you a motorcycle for a week or two. Bulgaria is not a particularly expensive country, and if you rent a smaller size motorcycle, the cost might be within your budget.

If this will be your first experience in Europe, and if you have not done any motorcycle touring before, I recommend you don't attempt to do a 'grand tour' (England to Moscow, then Athens to Oslo). Instead, start small... perhaps stay within one country (Bulgaria), and poke around there. By doing that, you will avoid all sorts of logistical issues such as currency changing, insurance requirements, etc., and you won't be accidentally 'biting off more than you can chew' so far as distance to be traveled is concerned.

I regret I cannot offer you my motorcycle (pictured above in the first post of this discussion), it is an 1,100 cc touring machine that weighs well over 700 pounds empty, it would not be suitable (or enjoyable) for a first-time rider. I suggest you look for a bike in the 250 to 500 cc range, that would be a perfect size for touring just one country, and a lot easier for you to handle.

Michael

Turkey have trashed the majority of their accessible coastline with high rises and it is possible to drive the greece border (ipsala) around to alanya without spending a lira if you wanted. It is the mass market euro-trail - including many of the so-called discerning traveller spots - altho' you could kid yourself otherwise in the first flush of advanture.

Even unspoilt little spots like Gemiler (follow the road from the blight that is oludeniz through the dreary kayakoy then down the great twisty road to the cove opposite gemiler island) reek of tourist fleecing. Sure they are friendly with it but that is the Turkish way. They want your money which isn't surprising because it is a very hard economic reality for most people working in the service industry. 7 day weeks 12 hours a day is not uncommon from May on.

East of Alanya it picks up, turn right at the garage a few miles after and take the old coast to gazipasa rather than the new dual carriageway - there's a low shanty looking restaurant on a bend overlooking a cove, very scenic but they are rip-off merchants if you don't watch it. This is only a short stretch and you rejoin the dual carriageway at gazipasa. But from there to Anamur it gets more than interesting with the twisty coast road but that too is slowly disappearing with the building of the new road. Anamur & Bozyazi are the only out-of-it-main towns left on the coast. Stay clear of the yukky tourist area and maybe take the trail up the mountain that divides the alanya bay from next door bozyazi bozyazi bay to the east. preferably to arrive an hour before sunset or the dawn. (Turn left on the eastern outskirts of Anamur before marmuri castle and jink about a bit on roads until it becomes a dirt track. Avoid the over-priced restaurants near the castle for anything but a snack. If you are on a budget the lokanta by the river bridge in bozyazi is limited but affordable however the prices everywhere are creeping up year by year. There's a nice restaurant with a veranda of in bozyazi at the corner on the end of the main town road by the coastal inlet (turn right at the bank on the main crossroad lights if coming from anamur and follow it round). But get an exact price first, several times the charming two ladies who run it laundered our bill. Well, one lady is charming the other thinks she looks good is mercenary.

You can picnic in any campsite in turkey if you don't want to camp there - just pay the picnic fee. Dragon motel camping is right on the beach near the castle with many trees, likewise pulu camping (just east) which is municipal drive in there and follow the road to a small cove - avoid weekends particular sunday if you want some peace and quiet. This is out of season advice. I guess everywhere will be hopping most days in season.If you are vegetarian (i'm not) dragon camping is v good, pervin the likeable hostess speaks excellent english and her mother is an ace cook, they grow a lot of their own stuff. You get a table and chairs there for your picnic money or just visit the restaurant

It's also worth following the dead end inland road north from Anamur and keep going until you can't anymore. It follows the river up the valley.

Picnics....
If you want some sanity near selcuk for example go to the campsite on the coast and to the right in there are some trees you can picnic under. Then you can return to your digs. or i think they have some basic chalets to let (I didn't look at them) . the main camp area to the left is barren and usually full of dutch or german bloaterhomes etc, when we went (early one May)the area to the right was closed for camping but when we asked they let us go in there and camp, we're in a 4x4.

Bozyazi to Silifke is now a mix of stunning and new road, if you didn't see the old road you won;t know you are missing out on a roadside outfit that served snacks cay and had a hammock. These new turkish dual carriageways are great to get from A-B but there's a high price being paid in many other ways.

The expansion of the gazipasa airport in future and the completion of the coast road means that alanya will join up with silifke and more threateningly the often rude oblivious Adana (a big city) hordes who frequent the coast road as far as silifke now. More flights from europe will add to this and soon this little oasis will go the way of all turkish developments. para, para, para. The turkish rich get richer, the middle class become more americanised or european and bang goes the identity of yet another area under the guzzling corporate monster.

From kizkalesi on we're back to highrise blots on the coast road again.

I have a very dear old Turkish friend he's 92, he's seen it all, he's been a part of it all, he is resignedly disdainful of what he calls the "adana tourist"
with their rudeness, flash cars and rubbish dropping. Yes it is the national pastime. Visdit a scenic spot, take some selfies or pose provacatively for your boyfriend by the ocean, have a picnic, leave all your rubbish and waltz off back home to look at the shots you took. I'm not exaggerating I've spent many months at a time in turkey. i despair for the country. it is fundamentally split. There is a chism both in national and individual character.

~obviouly there are many exempt from this and they too worry greatly about where Turkey is heading.

Sorry I don't subscribe to this ecomomic powerhouse view, it is built on the sweat for no reward of many and worse. I won't go into the guy in power.


Just a few sketches hope some of it is useful.