Motorcycles older than 15 years he'll be banned from European cities...
 

...for environmental protection but cars and thursday SUBs are allowed:

https://www.openpetition.de/petition...ischen-stadten

Signed.

subs on thursdays, that'll be handy:thumbup1:

London is planing something simular for all old vehicles

https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/env...e?intcmp=22947

and Paris as well: Paris will ältere Motorräder aussperren - Motorräder: StVO, Zulassung und Gesetze - MOTORRAD

I’m still wondering what is a “thursday SUBs” and if that affects us in some way.

BTW are those kinds of online petitions binding in any way? And is this something usefully or to have in mind for Travellers on the supposition that maybe and only maybe, some day could be possible?? Or this thread should be on the HUBB PUB section???
My 2 pesos cents…

6 or 12 inch?

By the time this legislation comes in most of us with bikes over 15 years old will be suffering the full effects of Ethanol in fuel in any case, on other forums there are already reports of plastic tanks going soft and becoming porus, severe corrosion in carbs, fuel pipes disintegrating and no doubt other issues with this fuel so maybe two years or so we wont even make it down to the city as we will only have a melted pile of classic plastic in the garage.

Jake.

Agreed, ethanol is not good news
 

There has been a bit of discussion in the HUBB about ethanol in fuel, such as in Brazil, IIRC, where it is in very high concentrations (again IIRC).

Here in the UK it is generally thought to be about 5% at present but the EU rules permit up to 10% to be added.
All of the pumps in France have a sign, E10, to show that the normal stuff is at that concentration ("super" fuels are ethanol free apparently).
Here, signing is not part of the law so the fuel retailers can add as much as they like up to the 10% limit without informing us.

I did a check on the French products about 3 years ago (with the usual technique of brimming the tank) and the E10 fuel was consistently returning less miles per gallon/litre compared with the premium fuel.

There are no good features about using ethanol in fuel; even some "greens" have realised that the land used for producing ethanol crops could be better utilised to produce food.

If it, London, was to be totally traffic free I would even consider going there more frequently.

I suspect you are too young to have experienced "smog" (polluted fog).

There are plenty of vehicle dealers here in the UK who export old vehicles to Africa; the reasons are clear enough.

This initiative started witht the mayor of Paris about three years ago, wanting to ban poluting motorcycles in Paris. In France there is no MOT or CT ("controle technique" for motorcyles, so a lot of the older 2 stroke bikes, esp Mopeds never get looked at or serviced properly, and are particularly polluting. Because other vehicles have to go through the CT and pass pollution control, they are not deemed to be a nuisance.

With the new harmonisation programme for vehicle testing coming on stream over the next few years, and the natural turnover in renewals, there is s strong argument against this stupidity. It will also be almost impossible to police.

Classic vehicle organisations ( like FIVA, FBHVC U.K.), are fighting this as well as it discriminates against peoples rights to use old vehicles without restriction, and vehicles which are usually maintained to a very high standard.

All said and done it`s a political issue driven by the greens, who would like to see all vehicles banned.

SUB`s// i thinik is a typo. Should be SUV`s.

I've wondered whether the no (UK) MOT on pre 1960 vehicles (and rumoured soon to be adding another 10yrs, so pre 1970) + free road tax for pre 73 /4 (or whenever it is) is just a precursor to restricting those vehicles to clunker rallies and parades. Not quite yet but the government does tend to take its time over these things and we're getting the velvet glove first with the iron fist to follow.

Quite a few cities in Italy already ban two smokes so (for me anyway as I tour a 70's two stroke) there's already a 15yrs+ ban in place.

It's all the manufacturers fault anyway. Anyone with a few years on the clock will remember the "good old days" when cars rusted their way to the scrapyard in under 10yrs (and Vauxhalls in five). They're so much better now that loads of 15yr old ones are still in good nick and passing MOT's. My answer is that instead of getting a pollution ticket or whatever the fine will be for taking your car / bike into a restricted zone you should get a bundle of Quantitative Easing cash to buy a new one. They could just leave it under the windscreen wipers like the ticket :thumbup1: It would probably be a better use of the money than what they're going to waste it on.

As for the petitions - :rofl::rofl::rofl:

I haven't found anything on the website of the European Community saying so. So please include a link to the source.

In the Netherlands there are 13 cities that have so-called milieu-zones where restrictions apply to lorries and cars running on diesel.

Eddy

Thirsty SUVs! (I.e. 4x4s which use lots of petrol)

On the subject of E10 I agree there are issues with this. My 2007 DL1000 has run like a dog on this when i have taken it to France. As soon as i fill up in the Uk again it runs fine.

London's pollution is a matter of real concern, see London air pollution 'worst in Europe' | Environment | The Guardian

Whilst restrictions can are annoying, ultimately my family's health is more important to me than someone's right to ride an old motorbike.

Riding a simple old bike is still mnuch better for the envirement then any big new car will ever be...

I wonder if there might be a "middle way" that addresses pollution control without draconian measures such as banning vehicles over a certain age.

In the Canadian province I live in (Ontario), all vehicles over 8 years old are obliged to take an emissions test every couple of years before the vehicle registration will be renewed. If the vehicle meets the emissions requirements that were in force at the time the vehicle was built (in other words, if the vehicle has been well maintained), registration is renewed. If not, the vehicle must be brought back to spec before it can be used on the road.

This appears to work well, just based on visual observations (the absence of old, smokey cars on the road). Past a certain age - typically about 20 years - it becomes uneconomical to keep older 'daily drivers' on the road, and those vehicles disappear. But, enthusiasts who want to keep an older car on the road can do so, provided that they keep it well maintained and in good tune.

In Canada, motorcycles represent such a small percentage of the vehicle fleet that they are not controlled for emissions, although they are controlled for safety standards compliance. The relatively high cost of insuring them tends to keep the 'beaters' off the road... in other words, if you can afford the cost of insuring a bike, you can generally afford to own one less than 20 years old (unless, of course, you fancy a classic).

Michael

Makes sense. In Germany all vehicles have to undergo an MOT every 2nd year. This includes the emission test.

I wonder what would've they told to Her Magesty with her old Rolls Royce in case they adopted that measure.:cool:

I've read most of that. Any one got any idea about disable car's that are at zero rate tax, but is older than 15 year's? I have one and the reason I keep the one I have. It fit's my life style just perfect. Do I have to pay to charge?
John933

and diesels without a green sticker are banned from all the major urban areas.

Having children generates far far more pollution than any old motorbike.

The majority of polution a car makes is during it's manufacture and destruction, not it's running. Any car over 12 years old is already producing less lifetime polution than if it were scrapped in for a new one, I suspect it's the same with motorbikes.

Thats why the scrappage scheme was actually an environmental disaster, but then, that was never about the environment anyway.

Also, it assumes people can afford to buy new cars. I can't, which is why I run a 15 year old car in London! It's a policy against the mobility of the poor.

emissions tests should be relative to the age of vehicle. I for one would not want to see running a classic car being the sole preserve of those rich enough to be able to rebuild their engine every few years just to keep it legal. Many cars go through a stage of being cheap transport before being classics, so a policy of rendering old cars uneconomical to repair through excessively tight emissions controls will mean no future classics being preserved.

A case in point is Japan, where excessively draconian roadworthyness tests render cars of even a few years old uneconomic to keep on the road.

people in this country can rest relatively easy. The house of commons has a large and thriving classic car club!

IIRC it is every 3 years .. new shocks, brake lines ..etc. etc.

At least some of the 'old' cars get exported .. to places like New Zealand where they do sterling service. In Australia I think these 'old' cars get used for parts. Thus the 'old' cars get recycled quite well.

Some of their 'old' bikes get recycled for parts too.

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More and more use of public transport is probably the best solution to the city pollution problem. Banning vehicles I don't think will work, make the public transport cheaper and faster and you will have a natural migration.