Legal EU Dirtroading?
 

Any recommendations as to which Northern European countries offer a goodly amount of legal "soft-roading" i.e.dirt/fire roads with which to explore their countryside - unlike here in the UK, with their virtual absence of such? Scandinavia/Poland/Czech etc?:mchappy:

There's still some great places to ride legally in the Uk. Granted there are more and more restrctions but we regularly travel to the Uk and ride some great trails all over the country . You just need to find the locals with the knowldge and lose yourself in the countryside with them . I was in Yorkshire in May this year and rode some fantastic trails in the Dales including one called "deadman's hill" which almost killed us on BMW GS's but what fun when we conquered it !!!

Belgium has some but they are not the sort of trails you can ride for hours without seeing anyone or getting on the asphalt but we have some fun nonetheless. Same in Holland but you need some local advice. The further east you go the more relaxed the rules and therefore the trails are less abused by endless 4x4's and MX bikes and the locals don't care so much. I hear Romania is great but I haven't tried it myself. pretty much all of Western Europe is protected by one or other Eco wrrior policing which is understandable because without it , there would be no countryside left .

There is a lot of gravel roads (and nice scenery) in Norway.
You are not allowed to drive where there are no roads, on some private roads you “should” pay a toll.

The “problem” is that many of these roads are not used anymore and they are not on most maps so it is quite a job to plan a proper route.

Camping somewhere in the west:
http://www.actiontouring.com/pic/utsikt.jpg

Gravel in the east:
http://www.actiontouring.com/pic/vask.jpg

http://www.actiontouring.com/pic/Bakfra.jpg


If you have time right now you can join here: Bukkerittet - OTC (Offroad Touring Club)

Edit: But we are not a part of the EU....

There are excellent opportunities to go off-roading in Norway, Sweden and Finland. Several thousand kilometers of small tractor paths, gravel roads and so on.
I think parts of Poland also offers really good off-road riding.
If you want more specific info send me a PM.

Trail riding in UK
 

Hi
I agree with Geeko - there are still great trails to ride in the UK despite recent govt. legislation restricting access to old lanes.

I recommend joining the Trail Riders Fellowship (TRF) TRF [The Trail Riders Fellowship] Welcome to get more information - and find some friendly riding companions if you want them.

For a more DIY approach: Get some detailed OS maps and look for BOATs (Byways open to all traffic). As long as there is not a restriction in place on a byway you can still ride them with a *road legal* vehicle. A restriction is indicated by the usual Highway Code sign - circular sign, red outer circle enclosing a car and\or a motorcyle.


David

Spain Is Good!
 

Here in Spain. once you leave the Autovia (Motorway) and start hiting the back roads...your on dirt bike territory.....twisty, poorly maintained, potholed, not on most maps (well the best tracks anyway):funmeteryes:, and great fun!!

France
 

Not done it but you can ride from north to southern France on tracks.

See the IGN maps at www.ign.fr I have some that are 1cm to 250 metres so you would need a few:smiliex:

They do one called Carto Exploreur 3 - CDRom for PC & Pocket PC - Windows.
Versions in 1:25 000 and 1:100 000. See IGN - CD ROM BAYO CartoExploreur 3 - Version 1:25 000 et 1:100 000

Looks good.

John

Makes you think
 

Is there an equivalent to the TransAm trail in the US for Europe: a sort of coast to coast from West to East or North to South, or both?

If not, it could be put together on here easily!

Makes you think... it certainly does!
 

Just had a quick scan of the Land Rover International site and spied a non-clickable window containing this - " Members of the Red Rose Land Rover Club do it the hard way, Lands End to John O' Groats by greenlane." Anyone get this illustrious Mag to expand on this?

The GR7 is 2699km long and we regularly ride part of it. It runs from Tarifa in Spain to Crete. Would love to ride the whole route one day.

There's a whole network of Gran Recorridos (GR) through Spain, the GR579 runs through Belgium, the GR10 runs through France and over the Pyrenees.

The E1-11 is a network of paths that run through Norway, Sweden, Italy, Scotland, France, Turkey, Spain, Finland, Greece, Portugal, Ukraine, Ireland, Bulgaria, Russia, Poland, Germany, Holland and Lithuania. You are able to ride them in Spain, but I'm not sure what the 'rules' are in the different countries.

The problem is it's REALLY difficult trying to find out any information about them, especially on the internet, but this image shows roughly where some of them are.

Attachment 700

The GR routes are often footpaths and every time a bike passes it destroys a bit more. I have seen medieval paths destroyed by bikes in France. In other places I have seen ruts 1 metre deep caused by bikes. Tree roots are cut, stones dislodged and the whole path washes away in the rain. In France as many as 15 trail bikes pass in huge groups . It is a disaster. I regret that you ride these footpaths.

Yes we're ALL EcoWarriers now....quite right too

Since the GR7 is the only route to many remote farms and houses in Spain, their owners would have a terribly long walk if they couldn't use their motorised vehicles to get to and from them!! A tractor, for example, I suspect would cause far more damage than a bike, particularly on the tracks we ride.

As I said before, different countries have different rules so it would be wise to know what those rules are in order for individuals to make an informed decision. A footpath in one country is an only means of access to somebody's livelihood in another.

Although biking's in my blood and the limited off-roading i've managed has been a bit of a revelation to my tarmac-addled mind, i'm fairly adamant to steer clear of footpaths if at all possible as vehicles on them just seem to cause problems, as a walker i appreciate the relative peace/tidyness of a vehicle-free path. But a decent fire-trail/forest track etc is a real treasure and this is what i'm seeking. We host HUBBERS from many Euro countries so i wonder if a compendium of great bike-friendly off-road tracks could be amassed? Perhaps this thread should be on the Trip Planning forum...

Riding fire trails/breaks in Spain IS illegal. Whilst I understand the concerns of riding paths, you only have to look at satellite imagary of a country like Spain to see that there is a huge percentage of roads, tracks and trails that aren't tarmaced - it simply isn't economical to do it.

It may not be the part of Europe you're looking to ride, but given the climate here, particularly in Southern Spain, all but the hardiest of flora dies off each year due to the heat and lack of water, so no fear of damaging anything living (unless you hit a goat).

Have a look at this thread on advrider - it has a great collection of photos showing you what the tracks are like throughout Spain -
Andalucian trip... - ADVrider

I have a web album with some photos of the GR7 and you can see it is no different to any other track in Spain -
Picasa Web Albums - Dakota - Motorcycling

Romania
 

Try Romania. Lots of dirt roads all over the country, esp. the mountain passes are awesome. Hardly any restrictions and very scenic.

And usually the weather is more stable than in Scandinavia ;-)

I clearly referred to footpaths, not farm tracks etc. To confuse the two is to move away from the point. A tractor does NOT cause more damage than a bike-the "footprint" is too large. A bike wheel is the most destructive thing on a path, as even a casual glance would show.Those who choose to ride on footpaths should also inform themselves about the effect this has. The damage is immense. Additionally, if a farmer damages his track, then he/she will eventually repair it. Bike riders dont repair - they damage and move on.

I refer you to the HUMMS type tracks - however rough, these have been made for wheeled traffic and are not damaged by bikes. They are fine for riding as intended. But footpaths are seriously damaged by bikes.

Your last sentence needs some explanation. One thing is sure - they were not built for motorbikes. Paths are not for the rider's "livelihood", nor his/her recreational "access."

Do think about what's been said here....ask yourself...can you justify damaging footpaths? I have done long walks in France and Spain (Le Puy-Santiago, Salamanca-Santiago and various others, and I have seen what bikes do. Its not good. Most riders I have seen on paths couldnt care less. A spot of tough EU legislation, fully applied, might stop the destruction of the environment by the few.

Wow, looks like you guys struck it rich with that trip - just checked out the pics link! You're bang on about the GR7, it's sooo more open than the tracks i see walking in the Alps. Nice bikes too - been shortlisting an xt for the trip next year. Surprised about the fire-road thing, mind - but with the trails you highlight i guess there's a greater choice of options out there. Nice one, folks!:thumbup1:

Portugal
 

Portugal has miles of public graded gravel tracks plus the right to cross private farm land. Also you will almost never see anyone else out whilst riding.

That sounds good, Dave. Ideal for the bike.....

Thanks for that. The ADVRider link is of a group of French riders who rode virtually past our doorstep. My ablum is of the rides we do every weekend. The GR7 is just a small sample of what the tracks are like in our area. We've been through the Montes de Malaga Natural Park today and before anybody gets too upset about that, the Junta de Andalucia actively promote the use of all of these tracks under the 'banner' of rural tourism, for the use of all vehicles, motorised or otherwise. We passed hikers, mountain bikers and cars.

Is there a difference between fire trails/tracks and breakers? The ones that are illegal to ride here are the wide paths cleared in order to act as a fire break. In the past few weekends we've passed 2 areas that have had recent forest fires. They are common at this time of year since everything is tinder dry. The breaks in our area usually run along the peak of a mountain and it would take an experienced rider to go up them anyway.

The XT's have been fantastic bikes. Can't fault them with what we use them for. I also ride a Tricker 250 which is like riding a skateboard.

If anybody is ever in our area and wants to sample any of these tracks, just give us a call. Any excuse to go out riding!! We're taking people on these rides at the Moto Andalucia meet in 4 weeks if anybody wants to join us.

Is this a commercial operation?

I'm happy for anybody to quote me, but DON'T type words into those quotation marks that I haven't written - it's just not cricket. :nono:

That said, if you're looking for something along the 'commercial' lines, you're best to Google it - there's lots of companies throughout Spain who run that type of business.

Completely missed that DavePortugal a few posts back (you quoted him) runs a commercial business - Enduro Republic - in Portugal and Spain. Try him -

DavePortugal - Nice website and some great pics - are they of Portugal and Spain?

Well I didnt do that ,so that comment was not required. I dont understand the reference to cricket.

No I would never pay anyone to take me by the hand to do something I could do better myself.

So Im not looking for anything commercial or otherwise. Im commenting on the destruction of footpaths.

Routes
 

Fascinating. Did not know these long distance trails existed. Has anyone managed to get these routes mapped out on MapSource with waypoints? If so where can I get it from? :confused1:

Thanks

GR's
 

The GR's are long distances walking paths passing trough intresting scenery and historical places. While the GR's can be used as a route planning guide, one cannot assume that the complete route is accessible for motor vehicles (due terrain, legal constraints, or just because it would be anti-social).

With sound judgement and respect for the environment (no wheel spin...) you're riding in, there shouldn't be too much obstackles.

And to contribute to the thread:
In southern Belgium it's illegal to ride on unpaved roads and trails that go trough forests (i.e. trees at both sides). As long as there are no trees at both side, you're fine. If you're caught riding trough forests, your vehicle will be seized(there're a few foul hardy loosing their 4x4, quad, motorcycle every year ...)

Last year a group of us did indeed create and ride a TransEuro Trail.

We rode from the North Sea near Groningen (NL) to Tarifa (E) on the Straits of Gibraltar in a trip "novelly" entitled "Long Way South 07".

In total the trip took 4 weeks, covered over 6000km and was about 80% "off tar" - and 99% legal (we believe!) We had to skip parts of our preplanned route and use tar detours as we had over estimated the distances we could each day. Some days we exceeded 14 hours in the saddle.

Bikes used ranged from KTM Adventure through Tenere 3AJs past 525 XC to Harley Davidson 350s (the latter giving a hint to our background!)

We hope to ride the route again this year and fine tune it. I am lucky enough to be off to the Pyrenees next month to develop a part of the route we failed to ride.

Cheers

John

Very interesting John: the conundrum is that if you publicise such information widely, such as on the internet, then it draws wide attention and "new traffic" to the routes involved.
You probably know that the UK trail rider federation (TRF) is not keen on widely spreading information about routes that their members ride routinely/regularly.

Quite right, Dave, I quite agree.

I think the important words here are "publicise the information" . The fact we've done it is one thing, the nitty gritty of the route - bar the start and finish - another.

The first perhaps encourages people to think about the possibilities of adventurous overland type travel nearer to their own homes in W Europe, while for the latter, I am not convinced that a widely available TransEuro Trail would not just end up as an overused Cannonball Run hacking off the locals, destroying the environment and the adventure it is - a dual sport overland route through Western Europe.

Like you I have anxieties about widely publicising specific off-tar routes in Europe in a public and uncontrolled medium like this - let people join clubs, TRF etc and share the discovery. It's not being selfish and possessive just suggesting that discovery of routes and the camaraderie of doing so is a big part of the fun as well as fostering a feeling of responsibility for the lanes - if that doesn't sound to fluffy!

Cheers

John

I would suggest that a lack of legal route knowledge will lead to an increase in illegal route use.

How can you aim for the legal routes, if they are kept quiet?

Having said that, I agree that you would very soon attract the non road legal riders, who you could assume would have the the same lack of respect for the rules of the non tarmac.

Either way, I know it's a flippin' pain in the bum finding good non tarmac riding!

(And family commitments keep me away from the local TRF meets).