Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB

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-   -   first timer into france (https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/europe/first-timer-into-france-35127)

oldsomeman 10 May 2008 17:22

first timer into france
 
As i cant go to Austria as i originally planned i am hoping to spend a few days in France. I did think maybe down the Normandy coast as i primarily want to see sites and photography rather than covering huge distances
I only have a 250 superdream so speed is not of the essence, but it will be the first time into Europe on a motor bike.Also i am not looking for motorway roads.
Have you any advice of places to see ,do learn,,,,or of routes and traffic things i need to be aware off.
Im not sure if to camp or use some form of hotel /b and b places.
I am a bit nervous, but still want to do it.I will be travelling in the july /august period as its the only time i have free/
Thanks in advance

rydalong 10 May 2008 19:01

Suggest August be avoided. It is school holiday time in France and often difficult to get accomodation - particularly on camp sites in Normandy.

These people provide probably the best Dover/France return fare and a 50 minute crossing.

Just go, you'll enjoy it. Don't plan too much as you will feel obliged to keep to your plans. Take things as they come.

Simon Kennedy 10 May 2008 19:16

Well, you can't go wrong really.

Hotel accomodation is a lot cheaper than the UK - you'll be very pleasantly surprised, even with your falling currency (change your pounds to Euros now). Otherwise every town, even small ones have municipal camp sites maintained by the local council that are a bargain. Have a search on the HUBB - these things have been discussed before.

Have a look at

driving directions, map UK, route planner, road map, Michelin Guides, book hotel online: Viamichelin

for roads and routes - the ones marked with green are pretty.

The French like motorcycles. They are not associated with criminality, violence and oil stains, but with living an exciting life and being your own person - transgression is valued here, in all its forms. :)

Roads are good quality, and empty compared to your country. A 250 will be fine.

If I were in your position, I'd come into Le Havre and work my way down the Seine, then along the Eure river to Dreux, then Rambouillet, and then zipping into Paris on a hot summer evening to sip cold white wine and look at the people. But it's your trip, I'm getting carried away, :) hmmm.

As for driving, well, they do it on the right and have some odd rules that are always negotiable, and oft followed in the breech. Don't worry. Only the very stupid are punished. Just be polite; that's enough. They don't expect very high standards of driving from anyone in my experience.

Simon

Walkabout 10 May 2008 21:03

Shame that plans change, but never mind
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by oldsomeman (Post 188841)
As i cant go to Austria as i originally planned i am hoping to spend a few days in France. I did think maybe down the Normandy coast as i primarily want to see sites and photography rather than covering huge distances
I only have a 250 superdream so speed is not of the essence, but it will be the first time into Europe on a motor bike.Also i am not looking for motorway roads.
Have you any advice of places to see ,do learn,,,,or of routes and traffic things i need to be aware off.
Im not sure if to camp or use some form of hotel /b and b places.
I am a bit nervous, but still want to do it.I will be travelling in the july /august period as its the only time i have free/
Thanks in advance

Hi Oldsomeman,
You have some good info in the other posts already: take a look about in the HUBB for more threads about France for instance - do a search for that word for instance.
The thing is that France is a big country by Europes' standards - you could ride further if you were to head for the south of France than you would cover if you did go to Austria.
Don't worry about that tinge of nervousness: it is all part of the trip - much better than going on a package trip with all of the details signed and sealed off by someone else!

When pulling out to ride on the RHS of the road, look for other traffic literally - do whatever the other traffic is doing - mistakes are made when there is no other traffic around and you forget that you are not in the UK (+ when you are tired, as ever). Roundabouts are "interesting" and there are lots of them in France nowadays.
Yep, the whole of France is on vacation in August, so the roads are busy to say the least. I agree with staying off the motorways, but you will then travel less quickly in covering the ground shown on the map i.e. don't over-estimate how far you can get in a set number of days.
Only very rarely have I pre-booked accommodation in France. Even in August you can find somewhere if you look around a bit, don't expect to get into the first place you try and stop to start looking around, say, mid-afternoon. I guess it depends on how fussy you are about what you want to find for accommodation.

That will do for now: have fun on the S/dream!

oldbmw 10 May 2008 21:08

I fully concour with simon.

You did not specify what kind of sights.. Make use of D roads, do not get confused about the numbering though, the d stands for Department which is similar to a county in UK. So you will see the same numbers croppping up on different roads in different departments, but the roads will be unrelated ( usually ). Unlike teh uk, France mostly kept the old A and B road system when it built the motorway network. The result is those old charming roads are nearly empty of non local traffic.

From 12 till 2pm everyone stops for lunch. if you see a nondescript building with loads of lorries parked around it at that time, it is probably a 'relais' truckers resturant. There you will get a very good multicourse lunch of peasant fare for around 10 euros. Excellent value, but dont be late.

oldsomeman 10 May 2008 21:29

getting there
 
If i call at these 'cafes' along the way will my minimal French suffice.i must admit i n Paris the French spoke good english...well mainly lol..but i was able to say hello and good bye and thanks?
I dont mind eating local.indeed its all part of the enjoyment.
Might i just ask about camping..if i do camp the tent i will be using will be a small one, will this be safe...or do i have to lug all my kit around with me all day?
I was hope to do the suggestion mentioned earlier .to stay in an area for few days and explore.
thank you for all your replies so far.......I'm quite starting to look forward to the idea of the trip.A long while since i have explored on a bike...some 35 years i think!

Walkabout 10 May 2008 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldsomeman (Post 188862)
If i call at these 'cafes' along the way will my minimal French suffice.i must admit i n Paris the French spoke good english...well mainly lol..but i was able to say hello and good bye and thanks?

Mais Oui.
Lots of French people speak English, but they don't want to "admit" that, nor do I blame them - it is their country after all (except the bits that the English used to rule and "we will be back one day" :rolleyes2:).
Remember, Richard the Lionheart hardly spoke a word of English, nor did he spend much time here but he was the monarch of England and a tad busy on business overseas.

Seriously, when I am in France with English expats/French nationals I fall in with this 2 hour lunchbreak ritual. When not in that mode, I carry on with the riding - it is just one more way of not covering much ground in a day, a very enjoyable way it is agreed.
I have often "grabbed" a light lunch on the move: a snack from the tankbag - everything that is not in accord with the French 2 hour stop. You can get the ingredients at any local supermarket incl stopping for fuel - they are usually the cheapest in the local area, just as in the UK.

Warning: if you do the "major" lunch thing and then an evening meal, you can pack on a lot of weight very quickly!

In truth there are many aspects of France which are no different from here, but vive La Difference!

DougieB 10 May 2008 22:24

never had a problem in france camping. but I would advise against leaving $700 in the corner if you hook up with a girlfriend...

but the usual applies, don't take stuff you can't replace. and if you have to, keep it on you (I'm thinking passport, money, cards, camera). this not only applies to theft, but also downpours.

between london and france you have enough time to learn the basic questions:

I would like to eat something
I would like a coffee/beer
I would like another one
Do you have a room/camping for one person, for one night
Where is the nearest petrol/bank/hotel/camping/etc

a french guy in the UK would get no-where speaking french, it's only manners to do the same there.

really do remember about riding on the right. especially first thing in the morning, after you get fuel, after you get lost, etc, etc.

| | ride -> |
| | ride -> | (on your tank if needed)
| | ride -> |

JonStobbs 10 May 2008 22:48

All excellent advise above! I'd like to add my tuppeny's worth too if i may....
When navigating on N and D roads,largely ignore the road numbers as they firstly are rarely mentioned until you're actually on them and secondly they tend to change as you cross into a different "county",follow instead the signs for the next PLACE on your list(ie:village/town). If when you approach a town or village you don't see the signs directing you to the next place you have in mind,follow signs for "centre ville" and you'll come across the needed signs soon enough....often bypasses don't include destinations to everywhere nearby.
"camping municipal" as previously mentioned are generally excellent and very safe places to leave your tent with gear inside while you go sightseeing,they're more often than not populated by retired Dutch couples who are the nicest people you can hope to meet,speak better English than a lot of Brits i know(!),and will be only too happy to keep a lookout for you when you're gone.
Don't worry about your limited French.To make the effort to speak their language means more to them than getting it hopelessly wrong....and it'll inject humour into the situation which is such a valuable thing in today's world.Old men will come up to you and ask you about your bike,where you've come from,where you've been,etc...even if you don't understand what they say,take time to try and answer as best you can.The pace of life in rural France is totally different to the UK.
Be aware of the speed limits(though the locals don't always).When on the open road it's 90kph,when you pass a village boundry sign (red border on white sign,black writing) that's the start of the 50kph limit unless it says otherwise,and the end of the limit is the same sign in black writing/border with a line through it.Take note when other motorists coming the other way flash you...there's a "gendarme" with a hairdryer nearby.
Roundabouts....hmmmm! If it's even remotelly damp take HUGE care....they're as grippy as Teflon,which is about as grippy as the white paint is in the midle of the road too.But the flip side is that you'll notice the fuel ecconomy of the bike will be better than here in the UK as the road surface is less abrasive over there.
Fuel is much cheaper in the supermarkets than anywhere else although out of hours these can be a pain as they revert to "automat" mode when the attendant goes for lunch/home and as of last year most won't recognise British credit cards.If you get caught out simply wait until a local stops to fill up and ask if you can give them cash to use their card to fill up.I've never been refused yet.
Speedferries will be the cheapest operators but if you want to sail Portsmouth / Le Harvre on a night boat then LD lines are the best bet.I tend to do that as it means i arrive fresh in the morning ready for a full day's ride.
Above all take it easy and ENJOY!

oldsomeman 10 May 2008 22:58

thanks folk for your kind advice,now i have to fit supper grip tyres for when i meet a french rounderbout lol
lets hope the locals dont mind my use of a phrase book lol,oh tis should be fun as my french is as bad as my writing on a good day!

Jabez Clegg 10 May 2008 23:04

Enjoy your trip on the little Honda, you will be fine, I,ve never had any security probs in France in 30 yrs of touring.
Usual rules apply, would you park your bike at this place in the UK?
Would you pull out a lot of cash if you were at home?
Campsites,Hm? pal up the people on the next pitch, but carry your cash.

A tip for the new, ------Put a coloured elastic band round your twistgrip, the band should then always be next to the kerb.(remember to take it off when you get back)Pete

jurgen1971 11 May 2008 07:53

There are a lot off campingplaces in France.
But do not take a free camping.
I had problems on it.
But there are motorcampings, only for motorbikes..
They are mostly very good and they speak English to.
And most of the owners know the best road to drive in the neighberhood.
Have fun.

backofbeyond 11 May 2008 10:41

A 250 Superdream! fantastic, somebody after my own heart! I'm going down to the alps, probably in July, on a 1977 400/4. If you stay off the motorways you'll have a great time. I'd suggest you take some good maps though as it's not so easy to avoid the motorways at times. All the signs seem to point to them and the little town you're looking for is never mentioned.

Camping with a bike is a great way to travel in France. As others have said bikes are appreciated and there are campsites everywhere. Google the Castels campsites to see how good they can get - in the grounds of chateaux etc.

Caminando 11 May 2008 12:45

The guys above have given you great advice, and I can't add to that really. Just be confident, you'll be fine. So is your bike, so no worries there.

In a way you're going home, because France, under the Normans, occupied most of this island for a long time and your language is around 30% of Norman/French origins. Result! You're on your way!

I can't remember if it's been mentioned - you must carry your ORIGINAL VO5 and VALID insurance docs. The cops can take your bike from you till you produce them. I've always found French cops OK incidentally. Wild camping is great in France, just exercise the usual discretion and a cloak of invisibility! I have a different view from Jurgen on this one. Also that comment on roundabouts - I havent come across this slippy issue at all, in many years riding in France. Still! always a first time. I think you'll find French roads MUCH better than UK roads.

I agree with someone - Speedferries is usually your cheapest and quickest crossing - Dover - Boulogne.

Bonne route!
PS
Oh yes - dont try your credit card in 24 hour automatic petrol pumps - it wont work. You can use it however, if there's an attendant, in the usual way.

rydalong 11 May 2008 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by backofbeyond (Post 188946)
. . . . I'd suggest you take some good maps though as it's not so easy to avoid the motorways at times. . . . . .

You will be able to "borrow" some good Michelin maps from your local library, oldsomeman. You may need to get them on "extended loan" or leave details with somebody so they may be renewed on-line for you if necessary.

Bon voyage. :scooter:

rydalong 11 May 2008 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caminando (Post 188962)
. . . Oh yes - dont try your credit card in 24 hour automatic petrol pumps - it wont work. You can use it however, if there's an attendant, in the usual way.

Good point, Caminando.

A lot of petrol stations are closed Sundays. You may need to rely on the kindness of locals and pay them cash so you can fill up on their card.

backofbeyond 11 May 2008 13:53

Yes, I've been caught out by that in Boulogne after arriving with an empty tank to take advantage of that cheap French fuel (those were the days - all of 2 yrs ago!). The automated filling station would not take my UK visa card and for the life of me I could not remember the pin for my Carte Bleu. No problem, I'll phone my wife and she'll tell me the Carte Bleu number. No answer!
Eventually I did get a local to buy me 5L for cash, but I speak reasonable French so it might have been a bit more difficult as a first timer.
A case of familiarity breeding contempt is the moral of the story I suppose.

oldsomeman 11 May 2008 14:21

once again thank you for your wonderful advice.its nice to know there are folks who have 'done it before '.
Now all i want to do is persuade a guy i know who has a full fairing to fit a honda superdream to part with it.otherwise into the breeze i go lol

mollydog 11 May 2008 17:14

Great advice, can't add much at all. LEARN SOME French .... wish I had!
Following town names is EXCELLENT advice.

Peage speeds are FAST!! but more polite drivers than UK going round round abouts and they NEVER pull out on you.

I loved it, if I could afford it, I"d be there NOW. May is a GREAT time to go!
If not May, then mid September.

I loved the south and the Pyrennes. Dip into Spain maybe? Easy and worth it. Never seen the north.

Did you all know the French buy Five Times as many bikes as the UK?
Great dealers all over the country. Need gear? Try Andorra or head into Spain. Half the price of the UK. (ref. 2003)


http://www.smugmug.com/photos/253779342_BgBLZ-L.jpg
Carrcosonne

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/967057_Jgi6f-M-1.jpg
France Tiger

Grant Johnson 11 May 2008 22:20

There's been a comment in the website feedback forum about no page for France in the countries database.

There's loads of good information here in this thread, so I will - asap - put a page together from it. YOU can help by:

If you have some info, please put it in a post with a clear title/heading that will make it easy for me to create a page with all the details. The better it's edited/written to start with the quicker I can post it. :)

All info appreciated!

thanks, Grant

oldbmw 11 May 2008 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caminando (Post 188962)
Oh yes - dont try your credit card in 24 hour automatic petrol pumps - it wont work. You can use it however, if there's an attendant, in the usual way.


This was true on my old cards, but since last year my new chip and pin cards have worked every where I have tried ( admittedly only 3 times) this is Verdun and both my local supermarkets 24hr pumps. It may well be patchy tho.. I did mnot expectthe card to work in verdun, I was on my way back from teh diesel bike rally in germany and wanted to continue. I saw a load of bikers in the closed hypermarket car park, and thought .,, " If I go through the motions of usingthe card, one of them will buy petrol for me and i can give them the money" French bikers are very helpful to one another. But it worked, and away i went.
two kinds of Visa card, one just visa, the other a visa debit card.

DougieB 12 May 2008 11:36

it's the (EU?) law that you must have your headlight on always (day and night). €45 fine a couple of years ago, probably more now. Cops will pull you for it in France.

Caminando 12 May 2008 14:38

France- personal observations/tips/info
 
ACCESS TO FRANCE FROM UK. - I find that the best is by Speedferries, the high speed catamaran. They are also usually the cheapest in this very expensive ripoff channel crossing. The aluminium ramps can be slippy when wet, so be careful. Take a straight line when on the ramp. The ferry has a roomy disabled toilet for changing in/out of your bike gear.

FRENCH ROADS ARE GREAT

Cars will move for you- thank them with a wave of your right foot or they will think you are a rude Rosbeef football lout.

THE PEAGE OR TOLL SYSTEM

A bike costs about 50% less than a car. There are one or two escape holes but I cant tell you where or you'll all be at it. Initially, finding the holes was like Steve McQueen in "the Great Escape".... difficult with alloy boxes.

EATING

My choices are - to stop at a s/mkt (Auchan, Carrefour) and buy loads of great French food and drink to have down the road a bit, under a tree, beside a river, whatever. Or some s/mkts have restos attached, like Casino or Flunch. You can eat well and cheaply there. I park my bike against the window for security.

Oh yes. s/mkts like to take your helmet from you as folks use them for theft. Leave them at the security desk.

FRENCH COPS

are usually ok, tho' I have enough French to assure them that I dont deserve a ticket (PV). However, if youre in the Le Mans area for the 24 hour races, then expect to be stopped and breathalysed at any time, including early in the morning. On a lighter (?) note, a recent leaflet urged bikers to leave at home all " hammers, clubs, knives, axes and chainsaws" - it's not Ripley, is it? Respect the speed limits in villages as they deserve to cross the road safely. Also cops can lurk in bushes with radar guns, and also on the autoroute south from Calais, hiding in service exits.

Carry your VO5 and insurance docs or the cops can impound your bike till you produce them.

Headlamps obligatory in daylight.

CAMPING

I find that France has the best wild/free camping I've ever found. I also use the "Aire de Repos", those great big laybys with trees and bushes. They have water, toilets, and woods to camp in if you follow the usual procedure of being discrete and invisible. Cover your bike. I also use a movement sensor alarm for the tent area, but there has never been a problem. Some Aires have restos but they also have the trees etc. If an Aire doesnt suit , then the next one is only 20 -30kms down the road. I have had memorable mornings there - deer grazing thru the misty forest etc. (The extra deer business is free for Contributing Members).
If you need a cheap hotel, try Formule Un or Hotel Etap. You pay about 30 Euros for a 3 bed room.

If in Chartres (and you cant miss that) I suggest the Youth Hostel (Auberge de Jeunesse) - a great building with a fantastic view of the fantastic cathedral. The hostel is owned by the town so just roll up - no card needed. Chartres is not to be missed, even by leathery old atheists like me. Not far up the road via Dreux and near Vernon, you have the pleasure of Monet's Water Garden - a wonderful place. Only 5 euros to get in.

PETROL

There may be a recent change which allows non French credit cards to be used in 24 hr Automatic petrol stations. But you can use them at any manned station now for sure. If you're stuck at a 24 hr, wait till someone comes, offer your money first and ask for a fill. Learn the phrase for this. Learn it well.

PEOPLE

The French are generally nice people. The Scots for hundreds of years have had good relations with France and the Continent (Le Vieux Alliance etc) so are sometimes a little more welcome. Likewise Canadians for obvious reasons. But the French are a welcoming race to all.

FINALLY - if you have a Horizons sticker on your bike, than clean your teeth to sparkling standard, wash once a week even if its not necessary, comb that horrible helmet hair, and be on your best behaviour.

Learn some French.

rydalong 12 May 2008 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caminando (Post 189145)
ACCESS TO FRANCE FROM UK. - I find that the cheapest is Speedferries, the high speed catamaran. They are also usually the cheapest in this very expensive ripoff channel crossing. . . . . .

Yes Caminando, SpeedFerries, deserve our support, They started up a few years back in direct competition to The Channel Pirates. Johnathon Miller's www.channelpirates.com (now closed) provided a lot of indirect support to Kurt Whatshisname.

Early days were difficult. The Pirates used no end of blocking tactics to disrupt their service. Furthermore, the more realistic Speedferries fares forced the Pirates to trim theirs. Speedferries now have their own dedicated terminal at Western Dock and appear to be going from strength to strength.

There is, however, one possible problem for some. At the last time of crossing, they could not take more than four bikes at any one time.

Caminando 13 May 2008 10:58

Thanks....now they've increased that to about 8 or 10 I think....

MarkE 13 May 2008 13:52

Language
 
Not specific to France, but there have been comments advising you to learn the language; you do not have to be fluent. I've made good friends with only the six basic social niceties (yes/no; please/thank you; hello/goodbye) plus "a piece of that please". For France you might also need "Would you buy me some fuel on your card? I have the cash here".

The only other thing I have ever needed is a willingness to laugh at my own mistakes when corrected. Starting here I've normally managed to pick up some of the local language in the course of each visit, to the extent that I am now incomprehensible in several languages (must visit Gibralter soon as I speak fluent gibberish)

The exception to this was the Netherlands, where I lived for a year. I really tried, but as soon as I said "morgan (sp?)" (= hello), they heard my English accent and immediately switched to better English than I speak!

oldsomeman 13 May 2008 22:41

Once again i do thank you for all your kind advice. Its amazing the knowledge we have locked up in out experience.
I do so want to go now.......sounds fun
may have to change to august.....but i hope still to go there and enjoy.

mollydog 13 May 2008 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkE (Post 189306)
Not specific to France, but there have been comments advising you to learn the language; you do not have to be fluent. I've made good friends with only the six basic social niceties (yes/no; please/thank you; hello/goodbye) plus "a piece of that please". For France you might also need "Would you buy me some fuel on your card? I have the cash here".

The only other thing I have ever needed is a willingness to laugh at my own mistakes when corrected. Starting here I've normally managed to pick up some of the local language in the course of each visit, to the extent that I am now incomprehensible in several languages (must visit Gibralter soon as I speak fluent gibberish)

The exception to this was the Netherlands, where I lived for a year. I really tried, but as soon as I said "morgan (sp?)" (= hello), they heard my English accent and immediately switched to better English than I speak!

So true Mark!

In France, one thing many Americans are guilty of is, when meeting someone, to just charge in and start trying to tell them what you want/need/
directions/trains .... whatever.

In France, no matter what ..... start every conversation with Bon Jour or
good afternoon or good evening.

And Mark is correct , you need not learn a complete language. You can in fact get by nicely on about 5 verbs and 100 other words. Listen carefully when spoken to, try to pick out what it is there are saying. And alway apologize for your poor French up front! At that point many will switch to English.

Funny thing used to happen in the Pyrennes along French/Spain border. I had just assumed folk in these areas would be bi-lingual. Not so. At least not the French. They refused to speak a word of Spanish. In Andorra they are happy to speak Catalan (Basque language) and even Spanish .... and lots of English there too. But elsewhere on the French side not much luck with Spanish.

Have a great trip.

Patrick:mchappy:


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