Adviceon European Trip
 

Hello all,

Like the title says I need some biker advice. (Long Post)

Its the deep dark winter in Ottawa and life is throwing some curves.

A bit about me:

I am 42 single and no children, I lived abroad for 12 years and learned to love motorcycling in Vietnam while teaching English there. I have done solo trips around Vietnam, Laos, Thailand and parts of China while working there on contract. I love doing bike trips and it seems to be when I am most happy... no the bike in a remote area... just riding, most drive 250 Honda's XR's and FTRS while in Laos and Vietnam, loved those bikes. I also had a CB400 SF that for some reason seems like my Z900RS in some respects.

Now my father has recently passed away, and I am slowly going through the grieving process and find myself dreaming of being on the road again. I have inherited the house and have minimal debt to worry about. My job prospects have tried up over night and my work place was bought out and I was let go... This is actually NOT a big worry for me as I have several offers available... I am just taking some time to decide what to do.

Whats pinging round my head is going to England and buying a bike there... I am leaning towards a Kawa Versys 300 as it seems to fit what I would want in a cross country motorcycle. I want to take my time and visit Europe, eastern Europe and Russia then Mongolia and China (if possible and depending on the political situation at that time). I am not interested in going south from Canada through Mexico and south/central America... not sure why, but the safety issue is real and I have spent a year already in South America so that covered that itch.

1. Is it cheaper to buy a bike in England than shipping one from Canada? I would sell my RS and there are some Versys 300's here I could trade it for but it just doesn't seem worth while. The exchange does't make buying in the US that favorable right now also. It will be at least $1000 USD to ship a motorcycle over sea from Canada to England (or else where in Europe?) (where I want to start the trip). I wonder if there is any where else in Europe that purchasing the bike would be easier or more cost effective?

2. A co worker of mine has suggested looking at buying a used motorcycle in Portugal or German as the prices are cheaper than else where in Europe?

3. Opinions on the Versys 300 for this trip? TEAPOT ONE did it on a sport bike (nuts) and I am a small guy so the 1000 CC stuff is out for me and I am not interested in those heavy bikes.. It would mostly be onroad with some off road capability if needed and a tire swap can transform a bike like this when needed. Also considering the Honda CB500x, RE Himalayan or a Tenere but I don't think I will fit on one of those.

Sorry long post, but hope to get some feedback .

Thank you

I've always had good luck finding a bike in Germany, with Stefan Knopf of knopftours.com, I think.

Sent from my moto g(6) play using Tapatalk

Hi, if u buy a bike in the UK, then unless u intend to export it then u will have to register it, which will require an address over here. U will also have to insure it, tax and mot it, assuming it does not have one. Don't be tempted to try and avoid this, whilst there may not b many visible police around, there are cameras pretty much everywhere, including the ports and an uninsured /unregistered bike will ping up immediately and it will be seized. Don't want to worry u but that's the way it is. Also don't what ever u do get ur self false documents and use them here, u may get away with it but if u r stopped then u will b in a deep hole. Keep it legit and all will b fine.
Safe travels.
Ps if u end up buying a bike in Germany then they have tuv type approval which relates to accessories as well eg end cans. U will need the certificates for any changes, the German police can b very particular about this, without them u r effectively illegal.

Hello all,

I fully plan on following the proper procedure to get the bike registered no matter where I buy it.

Since I am flexible what country I start my trip from, I am wondering where the best prices are for used motorcycles like a Versys 300x?

The UK seems more difficult because of the paperwork, but they seem to ahve a very strong used bike market?

France is worse than the UK to register a vehicle - you need proof of residency/address I.e. utility or tax bills. Also for some reason bikes are more expensive than other European countries - but they don’t have any roadworthy tests at present.

I don't think that particular bike was a huge seller in the UK to b honest, certainly not seen any on the road. This may b down to the type of bikes used to take ur test on..... Hence Alot of 500cc ones of all makes on the road. As for prices have a look at motorcycle news on line, they have a for sale section and it will give u a better idea. Best of luck

Martin at https://motofeirme.com is the man to speak to. He's in the Republic or Ireland

Hi Stosskraft,

Firstly I'm sorry for your loss, may your father rest in peace.

Consider spending 1250 eur for one way air freighting and then on your way back is the same, to that's 2500 eur min for that option. If you are really tied to that bike then ship that one as it makes sense, in other way i suggest the following

I would invest that money into buying a good bike that suits your needs and would serve your well for the intended trip. You can resell the bike later and will loose a fraction of the money you will be spending to ship your bike to EU. Pricing would be in the range 3000-5000 eur for really well maintained and serviced bike.
Buying in Germany is considered a great option as they keep their bikes well, but you can't get residency there and you can't register the bike and insure it. Same goes for Italy.
Above Chris mentioned Martin/Motofeirme, he is in Ireland, and besides Martin, we're also offering option of bike purchase here in Croatia, Zagreb.
We're known in the overlanding community offering one stop shop service from bike purchase, green card insurance (EU, Balkans, Turkey etc), service, tires, air, sea and land freighting to CDP, VISA, LOI's, mapping, routing and sale and buy back.

More info is on our thread here on HUBB or on ADVrider as well:

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...torcycle-95881

https://advrider.com/f/threads/new-e...chase.1075077/

You have links in my signature for more info on our website.

We're located 1,5 h from Alps and 1,5 h from the Adriatic, Bosnia is just 1 h ride from us. Getting to Africa like Tunisia or Morocco is just 2 ferries away or 24-48 h.

You can PM me or send email also directly: borderinsurance@lobagola.com or mototours@lobagola.com

Enjoy your planning,

cheers
Dooby

Almost inevitably and with any destination, as long as you don't treat the bike you have as "free" and unsellable. If you factor in what you get by selling your current bike, then the extra thousand bucks at least, is a cost you can easily avoid. People ship their own bikes because they already have something they set up exactly as they wanted.

The UK is actually a fairly cheap market for used bikes, but you have to consider a couple of issues. One, the bike's headlight might need to be adjusted for LHD countries (more of a courtesy/safety issue than a legal one, they won't stop you at the border). Two, the UK's about to drop out of the EU, so there might be some confusion about paperwork recognition. Three, insurance in the UK is insanely expensive.

Go to mobile.de, that's the big German used vehicle sales website - it will give you an idea of what's available and how much bikes cost. Non-residents can buy German bikes on export plates, valid for up to 12 months, and you can then sell that bike basically anywhere outside of Germany.

I don't know what the bureaucracy is like in Portugal, but it's definitely a place with a strong bike culture, the used market should be very healthy.

Some other countries are easy as well, if you have a local to represent you. Here in Estonia, it took an hour to get two local bikes registered in the names of non-EU, non-resident citizens - with no problems or questions from the authorities at all.

I've sat on both the X-300 and the new 2019 CB500X, and did a long trip around New Zealand on a rented CB500X. Honestly, I don't think the X-300 is that much shorter - it felt about as tall and wide as the Versys 650, and I don't see much reason to go for the X-300 if you're not limited to an A2 license.

The CB500X really is the sweet spot in the market - they've also been around for longer, so you can get a cheaper used one.

And you should at least give serious thought to the Suzuki DL650 V-Strom. You can get a used one for next to nothing; they're not exciting, but I've yet to hear an owner say a bad word about one.

Currently available X-300s in/around Germany.

Currently available CB500Xs in Germany.

Price is the same, starting at just under 4k, but you get a little bit lower mileage with it on the X-300s.

Oh, one more thing in favor of Germany: very good retail support to buy gear, luggage, etc. Every big city in Germany has a Louis Megashop. If you aim for the northwest of Germany, then just outside Aachen/Cologne is the warehouse of fc-moto.de, and you can just show up and buy from their online stock. (And online purchases in Europe always have free 14-day returns.)

Thank you all for the great response. I am definitely checking out the links everyone sent and seeing whats out there.

In the spring here I will go to some local dealerships and sit on a Versys 300x and Honda CB500X and check the seat height, I think the Honda might even be shorter rom the factory. I am riding a Kawasaki Z900RS at the moment and I am not completely flat footed on it but it is not an issue.... I love that bike by the way but I am going to sell it :(

I watch a vbloger 'AndyManCam' who is based in Germany and he always talking about 'Louis' so it would be cook to check them out, here in Canada we do not have a big motorcycle culture so most of my gear is ordered online.

Would 'Louis' have something like this? https://cariboucases.com/side-luggage-for-givi-racks/

One a side note a friend of mine in England thinks that after brexit, the Canadian dollar will go father in the UK...should be interesting to see what happens.

You can check out what they have here: https://www.louis.eu/

The other big one is https://www.fc-moto.de/ (don't really have a brick-and-mortar network, but great for online shopping)

For sidecases, personally I just went to my local Kappa dealer. Kappa is Givi's zero-marketing side brand, it's all interchangeable with Givi racks, but cheaper.

Thanks for the links, I didn't realize Kappa was made by Givi.

I went and sat on the Kawasaki Versys 300x and Honda CB500X, the Honda definitely has a lower seat and felt more comfortable for me.

Hello Stosskraft:

I suggest you favour a 500cc bike over a 300cc bike. If you are going to be riding around for some time in Europe, you will be carrying your stuff on the bike, and my experience (a month touring in Europe every year on my Canadian-registered motorcycle) is that the "stuff" typically winds up weighing about 50 pounds.

Add to that your own weight, the weight of your protective clothing, etc., and you will probably find that a 300cc bike comes up a little bit short on power for highway riding. I'm not talking about autobahns, just the usual 100 km/h highways. The other issue to consider is that you will be demanding almost full power output from a 300cc bike if you are riding it in any kind of hilly terrain... it's always good to have a wee bit of power in reserve, and not have to run a vehicle at wide open throttle for long lengths of time.

As for purchase & registration of the motorcycle, you might want to consider asking the selling dealer (assuming you buy from a dealer) if they are willing to register the moto in their name on your behalf. My Swiss dealer offered to do this for me if I wanted to purchase a new motorcycle from them.

I don't know how the above process would work, in particular, I don't know what would be involved in insuring the moto, so you will have to do some investigation. But it is a possibility worth looking at.

Michael (Toronto)

To buy a bike in UK there are some things you have to do:

1. Register the change of keeper (form V5 which you fill in and send to DVLA). There is no charge but you will need a UK address because that's where the documents get sent back to.

2. If the bike is older than 3 years it will need an "MoT" - this is an annual roadworthiness inspection. Bear in mind if you're going away for a long trip (and I reckon Mongolia and back 4-5 months to do properly) you may need to do the MoT before you leave so it doesn't expire while you're away.

3. Insurance, you may need to do a bit of phoning around to find someone who will insure you with a foreign licence on a UK registered bike. Try a broker like Adrian Flux or Carole Nash. In fact, start emailing now to get an idea of who will do it for you.

4. Road tax, can be done online through the gov.uk website, and will electronically check that items 1-3 above are in place. You need to do this within a day or two of buying the bike, since as Chris says below there is a fair bit of camera surveillance and they are quick to fine you if your documents aren't in order.

You're obviously a confident (if not native?) English speaker so I don't think you'd have a problem buying in UK, and as you say the secondhand market is pretty good here.

The only fly in the ointment is if this damnfool brexit thing happens with no deal, in which case you would have to get an International Driving Permit (IDP) and insurance Green Card to cover you in Europe (currently all UK docs cover Europe as we are in the EU). These extra documents aren't expensive or hard to get though.

As regards what bike, how long is a piece of string? You certainly don't need a battleship to ride Siberia and Mongolia, and especially for a "more compact gentleman" a smaller bike will do it and burn less fuel to boot. I'll be doing it on a 790 next year but if the Versys floats your boat, go for it :)

One thing to keep in mind in all of this, is that you don't want to bring the bike back to Canada! Sell it before you return, as you are unlikely to be able to register it here, without MUCH more trouble and expense than it's worth.
If a bike is not MADE FOR CANADA, it won't have a Canadian compliance tag, and thus isn't registered with Canada Customs etc as originally legally imported, you can't register it here. :(
Keep that in mind when deciding whether to buy overseas or ship your own bike.

A very good point, Grant.

It is impossible (not difficult, not expensive, but absolutely, positively impossible) to import and register a motor vehicle in Canada if it is not marked as being compliant with Canadian motor vehicle standards.

There are only two exceptions:

1) Vehicles originally sold in the USA that are compliant with USA specifications can usually be imported, but you have to check the Canadian government list first... not all USA compliant vehicles sold in the USA can be imported. In any case, it is an expensive PITA to import a compliant vehicle from the USA.

2) Some vehicles over 15 years of age can be imported into Canada, the rationale being that they are collector type vehicles. But this is not a blanket exemption, you will have to check out whether a specific vehicle you have in mind (year, model, engine type, etc.) is eligible.

Michael

Hi Stosskraft,
IF travel opportunities from the UK continue with little change your idea of UK bike purchase for onward travel to continental Europe and beyond should get off to a good start. Border crossings within the EU are (were?) a breeze, but the bureaucracy and queues will kick in as you head east.

UK purchase is simple for new or secondhand machines and prices are reasonable. The law requires the keeper of a vehicle to provide an address at which they can be reached. DVLA will accept a “care of” address providing the resident has given permission for the keeper of the vehicle to use their address. Perhaps you could find someone (like me?) who can offer a base for address, accommodation, garage in the UK when you first arrive from Canada. UK third party insurance and road tax are mandatory, they will cover you (to some degree) within all of the EU.

Do keep the Royal Enfield Himalayan on your possible list.
Take a look on YouTube at “Nathanthepostman” and “Itchy Boots” for loads of R.E. Himalayan travel feedback.
My other half has one and loves it; it replaced a Honda CB500X (also on your possibles list). They have very different characteristics:
The Himalayan is excellent value for money, offering you a pretty much travel ready specification, especially if you include the optional panniers. It does require slow running in, is heavy (for a 400cc), has loads of torque and good off road capability. Where you are going I think it will certainly look the part and these bikes have certainly improved since the original Indian launched version.
Both bikes are comfortable all day long, with the Honda having a better seat.
Our Honda has completed several extended European tours faultlessly, although the high gearing gives little power for the extensive steep accents in the high alpine passes. On the few occasions when the tarmac ran out the CB500X handled everything well; at least more assuredly than my more sporty mount.

Apparently you are the perfect age for a mid life crisis, and if life is a journey I’m sure yours will be interesting one. Good luck with your adventure.

Hello Electra,

Thank you for the great advice, I am leaning towards buying from the UK to start the trip. I have been watching 'Itchy Boots' and really enjoy her content, I am planning on going slower and seeing more the countries I travel through... best plan is no plan :)

I think the Honda is going to be the way to go, but I am planning on riding a RE Himalayan here during the summer to see what I think.

I am not planning to bring the bike back to Canada, I do not even think I will return myself.

I really am going to miss my Z900 RS :(

https://images.z900rs.co.uk/2018-09-03-12.06.14.jpg

In Belgium motorcycles don't need to be checked. We have no technical control. No MoT, no TuV, nothing whatever. But I've no idea what procedures you've got to follow to be able to buy a bike as a foreigner.

Hello all,

Its been awhile since I have touched based. Right now everything is going to plan.

I have sold my house and now have the financial means to do the trip, with some money put away. Right now my next goal is find a home for my fathers cat, so I am trying to re-home her... it will be hard as she has been a good friend through the recent hard times. Once I find a good home for her I am quitting the job and buying a ticket to the UK :)

Hard to say when, exactly I was thinking the end of the year but I am anxious to get going and only have the cat stopping me at the moment... but I am hoping to start the trip before the end of the year.

I am wondering if I should do a video blog or the youtube thing? I am a bit camera shy but it is a once in a lifetime trip so it might be worth capturing.

Cheers everyone

Don't set out with the purpose of making a youtube thing. You'll notice that most people's youtube things are boring. ;) Take lots of photos, take notes, maybe take videos of particularly interesting things, and talk into the video about what you've experienced. If you end up with enough interesting material, you can always combine it into a youtube thing later.