Which vehicle to travel to Oz overland
 

Hello all,

I have in the last few months decided to travel overland to Oz. I have no real experience of this, but am very much prepared to learn. I have already read and re-read most of this forum, but I am still not 100% sure of the best way to get a vehicle.

From what I can see the main choice is LR or TLC.

I am hoping to spend £15k total on getting the vehicle on the road (i.e. expedition ready), although this could be stretched if you think I'm insane.

So, do I buy an expedition ready vehicle, and give it a jolly good shake up. Or do I buy a low milage (<100k?) vehicle and make it expedition ready?

I am not yet a mechanic, and so would need to learn these skills, although I can call on some help when purchusing.

What do the experts think :) ?

Grateful for all advise ....

Cheers

£15K is heaps of money mate - you should be able to sort something good out for £10K or less - it depends on how much time you have and how much time you spend on ebay - and also if you just want the vehicle to get you to Oz or if you are setting it up for much longer term travel.

Buy a copy of the book 'Sahara Overland' by Chris Scott as it contains a lot of info on different 4x4's - though to be honest, you don't need a 4x4 - people do it in VW combi and transit vans all the time. Have a look at www.africa-overland.net for more trips.

Also, keep in mind that something terrible might kick off in Iran over the next year, and this is your only cheap way to at least get to India - you can get through Burma now I believe using an agency and some fuddling about. Else, it's the expensive and highly restrictive route through China.

Good luck!

Hi Ollie,
I know nothing about TLC's so can't help there.
Land Rovers, now that's another story.
I would think that you'll be looking for a Defender, or maybe a Discovery, almost certainly a diesel.

Discovery's:
Go for a late 300tdi, 97-98, with full service history and as low, geniune, mileage as possible. For about £6000 you'll find one that's never been off-road and has been looked after. Next, start looking around at shows, at other peoples cars, decide what mods you want to make and do them yourself, or be involved. That way when they break on the road you know how to fix them.

Defenders:
Same thing really but it'll cost you a bit more to buy the car in the first place.

I would not buy a ready prep'd car myself as I'm always a little dubious of other people's bodges.

A lot of mods, ie storage units, are very nice to have, but they can soak up a lot of budget very quickly.

Visit my site, there's a bit about mods on there www.4x4-travel.co.uk.

A good place for storage boxes, cheap, is just down the road from you, Solent Plastics, on the Millbrook Trading Est.

Email from my site if you have more specific questions, you should get a lot of answers from here though.
Kevin
PS sounds like one good trip.

Thanks for the confidence
 

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the replies, they've given me confidence to continue.

I do have plenty of time to scour ebay and autotrader, so I will keep my eyes peeled. I also don't intend to leave until 2009 so I have plenty of time, although I am eager to start the work. Once I buy the vehicle I will know it is happening.

For the time being , the plan is to head to Australia over sometime between 6 months and a year. Once there I would like to try and work for a year (plenty of issues here as I am over 31, but hopefully there are ways around it), regroup my finances, and then head onto NZ followed by South America.
These plans are a long way off, so who knows, but i think what I am saying is I would like to have a vehicle that is going to last for a long while, and to take on some more severe off road in South America.

One place that I have come across is http://www.defendercentre.com/ . Does anyone have any experience with these guys? They seem to have some ex utility vehicles for approx £6k, which is in the region of the starter vehicle I was thinking of.

Again thanks for the advice, its given me the next spur on I needed.

Cheers

Ollie

Hi Ollie

My father located my ex environment agency 110 defender hard top from the defender centre, I was working abroad at the time.
He says they were very good and helpful. They fitted a small side window in the back at a very reasonable price.
I can certainly recomend them.:thumbup1:

Rob

Hi Ollie,

have to agree with Darrin - £15,000 is a lot, save some for beer!
To sum up some popular choices for your kind of budget:

Defender 110/130 200/300tdi- pro's: easy to mod and work on, spacious, superb suspension, best offroad capabilities, posesses what some people define as 'character'.
cons: lack of standard comforts, noisy, require tlc, pricey, posesses what some people define as 'character'.

Diso 300tdi - pro's: Defender capabilities for less cash, easy to work on (earlier series), car comforts.
cons: harder to mod, lack of space, requires tlc.

Toyota LC (80) - pro's: reliablity, big low-stressed engine, spares common in Africa and Asia, car comforts, takes abuse.
Cons: primitive suspension, wide wheel base, fiddly to mod.

Overall, the TLC seems to be the better vehicle for general overlanding (just!)- something we LR owners have to accept with grace ; ).

However if you're prepping your car in the UK, a Defender is a much better bet. The deciding factor being the amount of support in the UK - this country is crawling with LR's, LR experts, LR enthusiasts, LR suppliers... Take a trip to one of the LR fairs - like Billing - and you'll get the picture. Everything is available cheaply and quickly and the knowledge base is incredible.

NOT the case with TLC's - although there's some excellent support on this forum.

Best value is to buy a ready-prepped vehicle - perhaps one that has returned from a trip. You'll save an enormous amount of time and money.
- all of which can then be spent on familiarising yourself with the car, adapting it to your tastes and perfecting it mechanically.

First timers often expend their efforts on gadgets and 'lifestyle' mods, many of which are unnecessary and expensive. Your time is better spent learning how to fix and maintain your vehicle as your trip will be far more pleasurable with this knowledge and confidence.

Good luck! feel free to mail if you want any further info.

Discovery??
 

Hi Richard,

Now I had dimissed a discovery without a real thought, thinking that it wouldn't handed off road so well as a defender. Am I ruling out a perfectly valid vehicle here through ignorance?

I'm now on e-bay out reconsidering!!!!

disco magic
 

Nothing wrong with Disco's and you can get an excellent one on the cheap. As with the Defender go with the 300tdi.

Only real capability difference to a Defender is slightly higher gearing and a weaker departure angle which are minor points. Overlanding is much more about coping with bad roads rather than out-and-out offroading in any case. Do cost in adding jackable bumpers or sills if they aren't there already.

Short of space compared to a 110 though, but people cope.

slightly OT
 

Just picking up on this thread ...

If one is planning a relatively long (2 yr, probably 70K+ km) RTW, and looking to outfit cheaply with a sturdy, reliable and comfortable TLC (I'm hopeless as a mechanic, so lean toward reliability of a TLC vs adaptability of a LC), how high can I go in terms of existing mileage before I start running into problems?

The reason that I ask is that the used price for TLCs stays high even when they've got a lot of mileage on them - 20-25K euros for 100K+ kms on the odometer.

Can I realistically get something that's higher mileage than that pre-trip, or am I just asking for trouble?

high mileage
 

With a diesel engine the mileage is not important, it's how well it's been taken care of (service-intervals etc.) in its previous life.
In africa old TLC's (with 2H-engine) and mercedes are still serving as local transport (taxibrousse) with BIG figures on the clock, 900.000km and such. And those old bangers certainly don't get there oilchange at factory set service intervals or with factory spec. oils and spares.

Buying a fully prepped car assures you of obtaining a proven vehicle/concept (to some extent), and can save you lots of money.
But don't forget that if you have enough time nothing can beat the months of surfing, looking, sniffing and scavaning on the internet, at sales, in stores, garages, markets and meetings, this along with the process of planning, looking, learning, reading and offcourse dreaming is half the trip your about to make.

enjoy !

consider the new hilux
 

If you can get the new hilux with the 3.0 D4D with the same price of a used TLC or LR then you better consider this option, it can be modified to suite expedition requirements.
In my situation a used land cruiser in good condition is very rare and never serviced in a suitable way, so I chose the hilux and it turned out to be perfect.
Check out this link:
http://www.tribe-expeditions.com/Arr...ehicles01.html

Regards

Mahmoud Mohareb

Mahmoud,

Thanks for the not re the Hilux. The site you posted the link for says it accomodates 3 comfortably - would it work for 4? We're going to be travelling as a family (2 adults, 2 young kids) ...

Thanks!

Yes would accommodate 2 adults in the front and 2 kids at the back in comfort.
The site says 3 meaning 2 adults ONLY at the back and one in the front beside the driver; this makes difference when travelling long distances every day.

Hilux Surf
 

Does anyone have an opinion on the Hilux surfs?

What I'm thinking here is that I here one shouldn't take the post 98 LR (TD5s) as they are too electronic supposedly. Is there any such considerations here?

Hi there.
Heres a thought. Lots of people ride road orientated bikes RTW, cape to cape etc. as you can do most of the big journeys on good roads these days but people only ever seem to drive 4WDs on these same journeys.
Would the ultimate RTW vehicle for £15,000 in this case not be an uber-reliable, brand new Toyota Corolla with a nice stereo and air con?
Or do you really NEED that winch and rooftop spotlights? ;)
Matt

Matt,

Good point. We've already found ourselves in lots of situations on previous short trips, though, where the high ground clearance and extra power of a 4x4 was essential - climbing the last rock pile to the edge of the glacier in iceland, or getting out to one of the far temples in belize, or reaching some of the outlying national parks in madagascar or tanzania.

On those short trips we're always driving rented vehicles, and sometimes can't find 4x4s - and we've found that it does crimp our explorations. The Skoda we rented in Ghana was a nice little car, but we had some really nervous moments on some of the back roads/lanes ...

It probably depends a lot on your travel style, though. If all you're planning on hitting are the bigger destinations with ok roads, and not going during the rainy season, then a nice car probably works.

I definitely know there are lots of travelogues out there by people doing exactly that - someone even did London to Cape Town in a VW bug!

>>>Does anyone have an opinion on the Hilux surfs?

There are plenty around in the UK aren't there (most, if not all from RHD and gadget-loving Japan). I spent a day researching them recently, looking for something different from the obvious TLC and LR and later met an owner of one I sold some oversize tyres to. Glad I did not get one in the end (though it would not have been for overlanding).
They come in various levels of spec but, although they are as good as any Toyota, I believe the OTT gadgetry (it really can be OTT with Jap imports...) may start causing probs on an overland trip.
http://www.hiluxsurf.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=2524

There's a good feature on buying Defenders in the current 4x4 Mart magazine, the whole picture, good and bad.

Chris S
http://www.sahara-overland.com/desertute

AHH Exactly what I've just seen
 

Thanks for that Chris. I've jsut returned from seeing a Surf and the over riding worry was that everything was electronic. The vehicle itself seemed a nice enough drive, but was definitely concerned for the electronics.

What I need to see now is a Land Cruiser, and once I'ce seen one of those I think I can start making some real decisions.

ANy thoughts on the best model/year etc to go and have a look at, anyone?

Thanks for all the help so far .......

>>>ANy thoughts on the best model/year etc to go and have a look at, anyone?

If you think you need a 4WD cant go wrong with a mid-90s 80 with FSH if you just want something that works - spend about 8k. Someone earlier said 80s have "primitive suspension" but I think they're confusing them (coils all round, like all modern cars) with leaf-sprung 60s (up to 1989).
Most 80s in the UK are autos, a plus Imho. Make sure you get one with a/c (you're 4-up with kids, right?) - most UK autos had it anyway. No need to be freaked out by high 200k+ mileages, as you might be with other cars.

Ch

Off hunting now ......
 

Thanks Chris .....

We're goingto spend the next couple of weeks looking, and then make a decision and try and buy something!!! All very exciting .......

Anyone got anything they want to sell?

Don't write off the Surf/4Runner so quickly: I've been buggering around in Africa for 2 years so far with no real problems. The UK 4Runners are not overloaded with electronics and make for a cheap overlanding vehicle.

http://www.elphick-pooley.co.uk/htm/index.htm

Nothing Ruled Out Yet
 

Hi Jaremy - nothing ruled out yet, but starting to get nearer to decision time. Its funny, I'm desperate to buy the vehicle, because I know that's where the journey starts, but at the same time I'm desperate to get the right vehicle, and this is making me a little apprehensive of ecerything I look at .....

Can't wait though :)

You might need to do a check on what you will do with the vehicle at the end of the trip in Oz. Currently there are only two ways to privately import a vehicle into Australia - a carnet or an import approval.

With a carnet the vehicle has to leave the country - no exceptions or face some hefty costs. So you might want to check costs of re-exporting the vehicle before bringing it in. You need to buy insurance for third party injury which is compulsory.

An import approval is only granted to someone who has a residency visa or is an Australian citizen. You have to own the vehicle for more than 1 year, you pay 10% duty plus 10% GST on the landed value. The vehicle then has to be registered in Oz which involves a series of inspections. Its a far more complex task than obtaining registration in the UK.

Landrovers have a love/hate reputation in Oz, Toyota Landcruisers dominate the market and have a better resale value if that is a concern.

I agree that the surf may be a good option and from my experience (my g/f owns one) the electronics that power them are absolutely nothing to be concerned about. Very reliable in that respect. For what you pay for a Surf, you get an extremely well equiped car.
As all of the surfs in Australia came in as low volume imports, you will never know the full service history of the car. Before these cars made it to Aus, the owners in Japan probably neglected the servicings, as they pretty much throw away their cars once they reach 3 or 4 years of age. Oil changes at 5000kms and regular cooling system maintenance is a must on these cars. If the service history (since it's been in Australia) of a particular car is questionable, give it a miss.
The biggest problem you will have with a Surf in Australia is when you try to sell it. Lots of people are scared of them and they are not easy to sell.
In my opinion, if you want a no-frills, tough, extremely relaible car with better re-sale prospects at the end of your trip, you really couldn't go past a Hilux.

Hi Ollie,

Running an LC owners club I'm totally biased so vote for the LC route as well. It's a long trip and you will be thankfull for the comfort and reliability.

The pricing for LCs is all over the place, but I would have thought that you could pickup a reasonable base vehicle for £6-8000, you just need to be patient and bide your time.

I spent some time last year looking at over a dozen 80s for some people doing a similar trip and it is worth noting that the 100,000 mile mark is a point where things like brake disks, clutches, etc need looking at - not expensive to deal with, but if you get something over 100,000 they will most likely have been dealt with.

There are stacks of companies out there willing to kit the vehicles for your, however your best bet is to do all the research yourself and then do the work yourself, that way you get to know the vehicle which is very important for the sort of trip you are going to do.

On the electronics side of things, yes the 80 series have some, but they are designed and built like the rest of the LC, for reliability so not worth loosing sleep over.

On the Hiluxes/Surfs side of things, I may be wrong, but some of the newer ones have independant front suspension and there are issues with raising the suspension on independant front suspension vehicles causing additional wear on the CV joints. Also I has a problem with a local game keeper's newish Hilux last year where the driveshaft actually popped out of the diff during some mild off roading, so something to be wary of, although Enzo might have other views.

It all comes down to budget. I prob. would have bought a LC 80 or sim if I had had the money at the time, I didn't though, and so I make the best of what I've got.

My 4Runner shares its engine with the LC 70, 73 and 77 as well as the early Prado's/Colorados. Modern Colorado's/Prados have the uprated KZ-TE engine (EFI) whereas the 4Runner has the older (non-EFI) KZ-T, less electronics are better for bush repairs. Best mod I did though was to increase the size of the radiator: from 3 core to 5 core.

If the LC you buy comes with a big 4.2L diesel lump then all the better - they go on forever, but the later models have more electrickery so look for earlier models. Good 76 and 78 series LCs can be bought from Gov auctions in Oz and they usually come with all the kit necessary for a long run: extra tanks, bullbars, snorkel, split-rims etc and NO japanese chrome!

4Runners have huge luggage space but are restricted for more than two adults. They are great for 2 adults and two kids but try sticking two adults in the back for any length of time then it wouldn't belong before the waste product hits the proverbial whirly bladed object. What I was going to do when I planned to take 1 client on a trans african trip was lose the back seat: suddenly you have ACRES of space to fill! And a few handy attachment points too. But you'll have to make a plan for the roof rack - I've got a full length one that is excellent and cheap to make up.

Anyway, you pays your money...