Which Vehicle - Toyota or Land Rover???
 

Hi Everyone

What are your thoughts on taking a Toyota Land Cruiser rather than a Land Rover Defender??

We are planning a two year plus journey through Africa & South America and are debating the two types of vehicles.

Does anyone have any recent experience in doing such a journey in either of these vehicles or may have met people who had some interesting things to say about the pros & cons of the two.

To narrow the field we would consider at Defender Hard Top TD5 from about 2004 and upwards and the Toyota Land Cruiser 80 or Amazon from 2001 & up.

We know that the Toyota is going to be more reliable but I suppose we are also concerned about the storage within the vehicle and with the Toyota there is a lot of glass so security could be an issue? Also, as a workhorse how does the Toyota stack up? Auto or Manual? What about the running gear?

Anyway, any feedback would be appreciated.

Looking forward to hearing what you have to say.

Thanks
Bigpond

This old chestnut - its an ongoing debate which mainly comes down to personal choice. There are passionate proponents for both vehicles. Basically both Landrovers and Landcruisers capable of doing the job equally well.

Landcruiser - Pros - more comfortable, possibly more reliable although given you are looking at fairly new vehicles, all should be fine. Cons, older vehicle for same money as landrover or more expensive if you buy same year, potentially more complicated depending on what spec you buy. The ideal Landcrusier spec for overlanding is the 105 as the engine is quite basic. Used on in Aus and was really good, most impressed. May be difficult to source 105, particularly second hand.

Landrover Pros - rugged, easier to modify depending on what you want to do with it, doesn't look as expensive as same shape as older ones (however not so significant as you are rich compared to lots of people in the places you will be passing through). Cons - not as comfortable.

Auto versus manual - personally would stick to manual. Really like autos for commuting in UK but when offroading, apart from liking to have the involvement, it also gives you more options - eg you can push start a manual, can't on most (all??) autos.

I think, apart from looking at the different landcruiser 100 series specs and finding the right one to compare, the rest is purely down to personal taste, either vehicle will do the job fine.

There are lots of posts already on the forum on this if you want to get some background reading. Hopefully this has been a fairly impartial response from a Landrover driver. (something about knowing we have the best vehicle so being more comfortable about it - actually want a newer unimog but thats a whole different league)

Thanks Toby2. Very interesting comments and I'll take a look at some other threads in the forum and see what I come up with.

Hi,

Being totally biased I would recommend a 1995-1997 80 series landcruiser with the 24valve 4.2 diesel engine with either an auto or manual - personally I prefer the auto, if well looked after it is as strong as an Ox and with the Toyota reliability you have less to worry about starting issues with a well serviced car.

A 100 series would give you a wee bit more space, but you may not like the Independant front suspension, although a well sorted 100 will go most places an 80 or 105 will go and be a lot more comfortable to drive on most surfaces.

As Toby has pointed out, the 105 will give you that solid front axle with the benefit of slightly more space than the 80, however they are expensive and have to imported into the UK hence suggesting the 80 series. Also I would prefer to have a slightly beefier engine for overlanding if carrying a fair bit of kit.

Bear in mind that whilst the LRs dominate in the UK and also current and old colonies, Toyota have sold 20 times more Land Cruisers world wide so you should have better backup and support.

Thanks Julian for the tech info, all good food for thought.

Hi Bigpond

We recently were in your shoes having been forced to switch from 2 wheels to 4 wheels. Everyone is going to tell you differently and its a long standing battle between the two vehicles.

Our choice was made solely on our travel experience overlanding to India and the many 4x4 we met along the way. The Land rovers are great vehicles but everyone we met had had some mechanical issues along the way, they are also not widely used outside of Europe. The Landcruisers were being used mainly by swiss/ dutch & german travellers and had had no problems enroute and can be found anywhere in the world being driven by locals.

We are very happy with our landcruiser 80 series - it performs really well on and off road.

We opted for an Automatic due the the advarntages it has when driven off road.

If we can be of any further help then pm us - we live in Kent and would be happy for you to come and check our vehicle out.

Hi BMW.Bec

Thanks so much for your comments.

We would really like to see your vehicle and talk with you about this subject. Let me know if you would like us to give you our contact details or will you post yours?

Thanks

Hi Barbara

No problem to meet up sometime. Give us a call - we're around tonite after 8.30 or saturday onwards anytime on:



Speak to you soon

Becky and Bill

Workhorses!
 

I have owned a Defender 110 SW (Tdi 300) and currently own a 78 series Toyota Landcruiser Troopcarrier (1HZ engine). Both were absolute basic workhorses (later a bit modified), but please bear in mind that I am living in Africa, so it was easier for me to acquire a troopy than it would be in the UK. While I didn't own a TD5 I have driven several. Also my comments refer to unmodified, basic vehicles

1) Landrover TD5:

Pros:
comfortable long travel suspension
basic boxy shape easy to make up storage boxes/systems
Superior pure off-road ability
Very simple to work on
Very simple to get more power (chipping the ECU)
More reliable (arguably) than a Tdi!
Very good economy
Massive aftermarket parts and accessories range and suppliers/modifiers in UK
Better choice of used vehicles available.
Undeniable character which other vehicles don't have

Cons:
Expensive (compared to other 4x4s including Discos RR etc)
Fragile body - many end up fitting full roll cages due to the frankly shocking way a Defender performs in a roll-over (the only really large scale fleet user in Ghana ended up putting roll cages in every defender they had).
Rust problems particularly with the chassis/bulkhead etc.
They can be a bit fragile, and frankly they do have a (improving) poor reputation for reliability.
Cramped cabin with little leg room and side room and a sitting position which you either love or hate.
Relatively high output 2.5 turbo engine, with electrics which some see as a big problem, but personally I don't see a TD5 as something that cannot be 'handled in the bush'

Toyota Landcruiser HzJ78 Troopcarrier:

Pros:
Large load carrying capability and roomy
reputation of extreme reliability and strength
simple, durable large capacity engine
Strong body and chassis
Parts availability (outside of Europe!)

Cons:
More limited off-road ability (less ground clearance and axle articulation)
Big rear glass windows!
Fuel consumption not as good
Not as comfortable (especially if lightly loaded).
Not exactly pretty!

Today I drove a brand new HZJ105 Standard Landcruiser (which is basically an 80 series) for 5 hours on very poor roads (a new addition to our company fleet). It was a typical African spec standard vehicle - vinyl interior, twin tanks etc. I was reminded of what a SUPER vehicle a basic 105 is. In Ghana, on the road it is priced less than a Defender, and I am sorry but there is simply no comparison in any way other than maybe absolute pure off road agility (how often do you really need that tiny edge that a Defender has?). As far as the long standing battle that is between the vehicles, sorry but the battle has been well and truly won by Toyota (and Nissan) in the more developing parts of the world. In fact the UK is really the only place I can think off where there is really any last remaining doubt! Even L/R themselves have (IMHO) given up in the Defender Vs L/Cruiser Patrol stakes... Witness the total lack of Defender development other than sticking in a (very nice) high output ultra modern transit engine! The Toyota workhorse range is now (globally) quite massive, with the new 200 series probably about to dominate the more comfort end of the scale. The Nissan Patrol continues to be a super vehicle (and really the Landcruisers biggest rival, not the Defender)
Over the last 12 years I have had (as company vehicles in VERY tough conditions) the following (not in any order):
80 series l/C (several)
Hilux (several)
Nissan D22 p/up (several)
Defender
105 series l/C (several)

Now that I basically decide what we buy, it is at the moment confined to only D22 p/ups (changed every two years) and 105 series and 79 series L/Cruisers (which we change after 4 years).

Now after my really long winded reply my recommendation (based on someone living in UK) would be:
1) Consider importing a Std 105/78 (Turbo would be GREAT) series from Oz.
2) Be tempted by the allure and romance of a Landrover.
2) But then probably buy a Turbo 80 series !!

I hope this is of some use, and bear in mind that when I buy vehicles to use in the bush I am spending our company money, so I do try to be as objective as possible. Unfortunately this means that L/R currently has no model we would consider.

I really only bought a Troopy (rather than a 105 or 80) 'cause it was classed as a bus and duty was bugger all !!!! Not that I regret it for a minute.

Gil

land cruiser or land rover
 

a couple of years ago i had the same question and everyone said "80 series land cruiser". I know nothing about vehicles so first priority was reliability..two trips through Africa and one through Autralia proved this to be the best advice i had..i love the 80 series..and have spent many happy evenings in camps chatting to Land Rover owners and having a beer whilst handing them spanners as they repaired their vehicles!!!

jeff watts

Gone wandering

here here
 

Someone once told me never to get sentimental over vehicles and houses......buy the Toyota.

Graeme

or rather hear hear
 

Oops spelling has never been my strong point

Hi Becky & Bill
Sorry but I didn't get your number, it's missing from the text. Is there a way we can swap contact details privately?
Thanks
Barbara

Hi Gil

Thanks so much for taking the time to run through so much information. By what you and others are saying there is just no contest! Toyota is the way to go, without a doubt.

Once again a big thank you for taking the time to write with so much detail, it has been a huge help to us.

Barbara

Morning.
I think Gil has got it pretty much right.

Defenders; great image, very well designed, great off road as standard, 300 Tdi is very economical and fast, very easy to modify and get accessories for, parts are VERY cheap to buy. Also in it's favour, if you rough it up a bit it won't look desirable to get stolen.
But, they are a bit noisy inside and cramped unless you modify the seat brackets. And the reliability is not as good as a Toyota. And build quality is not as good as we'd all like.

Landcruiser; fast, quiet, comfortable, very powerful as standard, great build quality, good off road ability as standard, simple enough to work on,
But, not economical, expensive to get parts for, hard/expensive to find accessories for (unless you buy from Europe and beyond). And, contrary to popular belief, they do break down!

In fact any car can break down, even a new one! But I guess all you can do is do everything logical to minimise the risk.

However, like everyone else has said, it all comes down to personal preference, go and drive a couple of TD5 (or 300 tdi) 110 hard tops, and then drive an 80 or 100 series Landcruiser and see which you fancy 'living' with.

Or forget all that and get a 4WD Fiat Panda!!

Cheers,
Matt

To even the score, I wouldn't be prised out of my Defender - it has plenty of downsides for sure, but I smile everytime I drive it, and so do all the other Defender drivers as they wave at me when they pass going the other way.
Sure bits break now and then, but it is a 21 year old motor and will still be going in another 21 years - and it's not like they are difficult to fix either.

For me, the driving is as big a part of the adventure as going somewhere - and it just wouldn't be the same if I was cocooned in a comfy Toyota with air con, no draughts and a quite ride - it would be like watching it on telly.

I've rebuilt my land rover from the ground up on my drive at home, which again shows how easy they are to work on, and again part of the satisfaction of getting somewhere is knowing I did it in something I've had a hand in creating - for many people this will be of no interest whatsoever, and in that case, get a cruiser or a patrol. Modifying and personalising a defender is also very easy - but again if that aint your bag and you're looking for off the shelf, I'd say go Jap.

:scooter:

I'm surprised - normally these generate a much more even match yet this one seems to be dominated by the landcruiser crowd. As per my previous post on personal choice - for all the rational about 80 series, I don't like them, never have. Had the option in Aus to buy one and bought a Disco instead and then later a Defender. I do quite like the 100 series. One thing I like about the Defender is character - its painted pink, its all kitted up, loads of people come and talk to me about it. Its a great ice breaker and actually gets other people coming up and starting the conversation which can be quite significant when travelling for extended periods and given one of my key drivers for travelling is meeting people. I never used to get that in the other four wheel drives (travelled in Nissan Patrol, Landcruiser / LR Disco / Range Rover). Now in theory you could customise the Landcruiser as much but it doesn't lend itself in quite the same way.

Opinions................
 

Hi Barbara

well it woul seem that pretty much all the advice so far has been for Land Cruiser.

Here's my 10pence worth - did a London to Cape Town trip with my wife and ended up nearly three years in Africa, set out in a Land Rover 130 -no mechanical breakdowns at all - played up a couple of times but never let us down. However, we did have a very thorough mechanical check over done before we set off, and serviceing done every 3500-5000 miles apprx. Managed to sell duty free in Zambia and ended up replacing it with a Land Cruiser 80 series.

So both vehicles are very capable, the LC 80 more comfortable - will almost certainly be fitted with Air con. which can be very pleasant at times, but also quite handy for helping to keep water out of a wading vehicle.

IMHO go for the LC 80 and you will not regret it.

LC or LR
 

Also note that South America is ALL Toyota country.

Hardly any Land Rovers over there. So in the unlikely case you will need spare parts ;) , you will have no trouble finding Toyota parts in South America!

Cheers,
Noel
exploreafrica.web-log.nl

an expression I've heard from Australia:


If you want to go into the bush, go in a land rover.


If you want to come back, take a Toyota.


I have no personal experience of either (I'm a truck guy myself) so my contribution is limited.

fuel consumption
 

For longer trips, where fuel tends to consume a large part of the budget, consumption is something to take into account. Although some would disagree, but as far as I know, the big toy's like up to 50% more then a well driven Land Rover... .

it's not broken it's British
 

All said about the Toy is quite truth, they are quite great, however, the charm and flavor of a real L.R. is difficult to be explained with words. You don't need to be a poet to see that.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...a/DSCF0096.jpg

Everything said here is true! Romance on the right and fat but solid 80 on the left. My Defender was sold 3 months ago but after a big trip is sitting in the workshop... My mate that bought it and travelled before going back to Germany anticipated making a few Euros on the sale and then buggering off... Now he wants me to keep it so that every year he can come back to make a trip. When I told my GF I was selling it to replace with a troopy the reaction was tears! The troopy is new and uber reliable but will never occupy the same place in our hearts. On this occasion the 110 brought us home the 80 we had to leave in Mali and re-engine after a lot of palaver.
Heart = Defender
Head = Toyota
But I learnt heaps from my tempramental lover...
Gil

Another vote for Land Rovers here!
 

I have owned and driven both (defender 200 and 300 tdi and 75’s) in Africa for years and in the long run ended up with Defender’s as a personal choice over Toyotas. Both will work well and I guess its personal choice.

It it my personal belief that a well maintained Defender is as reliable as a Toyota in the long run. I don’t know where Toyota have got their reputation from but I recon it’s a bit of a myth – There seems to be as many Series 3’s in Africa still running as 45’s and the quantity of Toyotas on the road seems to be down to aggressive marketing rather than choice.

When Toyotas break – I find they REALLY do break, requiring mechanical knowledge, expensive tools, and even more expensive parts to get going – have you seen how much a clutch costs! Landys can limp along on three cylinders, gear boxes rattling like a bag of spanners stuck in second, oil oozing out of everywhere for hundreds of k with other bits dropping off along the way and never seem to really die. I have killed 2 Toyotas over the years and but only “hurt” the Land Rovers…

I agree you do see a lot of Land Rover owners in camp sites with oily hands and a bag of spanners fixing yet another thing that’s broken – partly down to a rubbish build quality but its also down to the owners falling in love with the things and secretly wanting to tend to their vehicles every need. You just don’t get that feeling with Toyotas.

Land Rover Pros
Better of road (but unless you do extreme stuff you probably won’t notice the difference much)
Much easier to fix – also loads of help on the web if you do get stuck
Spares about ¼ to a 1/3 of Toyota
110’s easier to pack and load on a long trip
Bolt on bits much cheaper and vastly more selection (steering guards, long range tanks roof rack)
Fuel economy can be better with a light foot
Better off the shelf – less that you “have” to modify before a trip
Much nicer than a 75 to drive on corrugated roads!
Less likely to get nicked
You don’t mind denting it
You don’t mind when the interior gets full of dust
You don’t mind driving up to window height in water

Land Rover Cons
Difficult to get leather seats
Noisy – get a BIG stereo
Hot – even with AC
Can lead to mechanical trauma if not maintained
Can break things if you don’t drive carefully
Something minor will always need fixing
Not so quick or car like to drive fast on tarmac
You’ll fall in love with the damn thing!

"Toyota is the way to go, without a doubt."
Sure except you said you wanted to travel in South america, and everyone is forgeting that!!!!

Land Rover defender in south america for me, used to be made in Brazil, border patrol uses them in Argentina............Toyotas are reputedly more reliable but VERY few were sold around here.


the engine in the Land Rover TDI's was made under licence in brasil and used in ford pickups etc,so spares are easy....still I prefer a TD5

"Also note that South America is ALL Toyota country.

Hardly any Land Rovers over there. So in the unlikely case you will need spare parts ;) , you will have no trouble finding Toyota parts in South America!

Cheers,
Noel
exploreafrica.web-log.nl


I think Noel is mistaken, the toyotas made in Argentina are NOT land cruisers, they are SW4's, not the same. The ones made in Brasil are cars not landcruisers
Sorry Noel I just live here,

Charlie

The Toyota will outnumber the L.R. in Cape Town, S.A. by 10 to 1
S.A. just loves Toyota.

Just to add to the debate about Toyotas in South America, the 80 series are still being made over there - can't remember which country though.

toyota!
 

Just take a quick drive into eastern africa. 90% of all vehicles are toyota, says something. LR are a bread far and few.:) I suppose thats the call:tongue2: Go cruiser

LR for the city and T for everywhere
 

I have both a LR Discovery and Toyota 79 series ute. I have taken the Disco in the Victorian high country and along the length of the Canning Stack Route. It took us there and brought us back. In Australia you see most LR in coastal cities, once you are in the bush the Toyotas outnumber the LR 50:1. Although the Disco has a 2.5L turbo diesel engine and the Toyota 79 series a 4.2 L turbo diesel, the fule consumption for each is very similar, between 12 and 13L per 100km. My Toyota has far more power and torque than the Disco, in fact it is dangerous to get into the Disco when the engine is cold.Cheers

Looks like it is Land Cruiser all the way, bar South America.

Since the large majority of us are looking to drive the Africa route, it does seem that the Land Cruiser would be the far better choice.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...9/scan0002.jpg
.
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u...iggerparty.gif

"To narrow the field we would consider at Defender Hard Top TD5 from about 2004 and upwards and the Toyota Land Cruiser 80 or Amazon from 2001 & up."

TD5's have occasional ECU problems which would be pretty difficult to fix in Africa and in South America probably even less so. Consider an all mechanical 300 tdi or a pre '98 Cruiser VX. An Amazon or similar is also stuffed with electronics and is NOT recommended for desert use by friends in Germany who run a desert business, so probably not so good in non desert rough areas either?? Also Amazon highly stealable..............

The wonderful toyota reliability we hear sooo much about doesn't bear out in reality in my humble opinion or experience. Both makes are probably about the same and both need to be properly maintained even if they are tough 4x4's. I for example have had no problems with my thoroughly maintained Defender in 240,000 km whilst 3 Toyota friends have seen blown diffs (Prado) , a 3 ltre engine (Prado) self destruct and VX80 series transfer box fail - but you do have more power and comfort if that's what you want when things are going well.

Personally, and my Toyota loving girlfriend backs me up on this, I find the Defender (half the price of an Amazon and a working vehicle not a light load passenger car - so a fair comparison ?) more involving and Cruisers (Yes I've used air conned cruisers in the desert) too insulating for exploratory trips. If you want to wallow in air conditioned comfort whilst filing your nails and see the whole world move past the closed windows like a film - go see a film. Just my opinion, do you want to get involved in what's happening outside or not ??

I'd go for a 300 tdi or a pre 98 VX for your trip, either will be reliable if in good fettle to start with. Avoid anything with electronics or independent suspension if possible.

Andrew.

I do not drive either of these but have traveled with landrover TD5s and one thing they are prone to is fuel pump failure on poor fuel. I think it is in the tank too so not an easy fix.
I know it's not a popular choice but for the kind of money you are talking you might look at a mercedes G wagen as used by Tom Sheppard:thumbup1:
The 461 series 290 turbo is the one to go for ( sprinter engine) and very reliable.
Just my twopenneth
Chris

Not all Toyotas have air-con and electrics.......

The Toyota that we purchased actually cost much less than a defender in similar condition. Its a 1996 GX which basially is a VX model but with hardly any electronics in it. When we briefly looked at Defenders in our price range they did not come in the same good condition as the Toyota.

As for Andrews comment "If you want to wallow in air conditioned comfort whilst filing your nails and see the whole world move past the closed windows like a film - go see a film. Just my opinion, do you want to get involved in what's happening outside or not ??"

Surely its up to you and not the vehicle that affects your trip experience - anyway if you really want to be exposed to the people/culture then get a bike and ditch the safe, metal shell reagardless of the badge.

A 1996 GX model is a passenger car that has probably had an easy life on paved streets, hence the better condition than similarly priced Defenders - generally purchased as 'working' vehicles. In my experience the GX (Prado..??) is not built so solid. Expect to lose bumpers, diffs to pop when asked to do rougher jobs. They have independent front susp. and are not as tough as the bigger VX's.

A G wagen is probably one of the worse choices for such a trip, spares are very expensive - and where can you get them, and you need special tools.... You could trust to reliability (sounds familiar) if you want. The Sprinter engine is a common rail diesel controlled by electronics and an ECU. You often see them on the hard shoulder of the M25, as well as the outside lane. For rich Germans only...

Yes it does hinge on the individual as to how the trip is perceived but the vehicle also has a bearing on the overall experience.. As I said earlier, LR Defe's are more involving (smaller, noisier, bumpier, more trashable, no air con usually, can carry more weight), Cruisers are more insulating (smoother ride, quiet, plush, cool, precious, mmm ) - depends what you want.

Either will do the job, but get a simpler non electronic type with beam axles front and back......BTW you can get a TD5 fuel pump upgrade (!) from Switz that removes the pump from the tank and filters more dust or something. There's still plenty to go wrong though (I don't think they're too bad in reality) but I was speaking to a colleague a few weeks ago who had a TD5 Disco - same basic set up - who, the first thing he mentioned - 'had a problem with the ECU'.......

Andrew.

"but have traveled with landrover TD5s and one thing they are prone to is fuel pump failure on poor fuel".

Correct me if I'm wrong someone, but is this the ECU 'brain' telling the engine I don't like the fuel, so I'm going to shut everything down, rather than the pump at fault...???

Just for reference the GX model is not a Prado but a no-frills 80 series (looks like an amazon). It was never imported into the Uk or most of Europe because people wanted leather interior, air-con etc.

The vehicle was imported and used off-road prior to us buying it. I have no worries and a lot of faith in the vehicle. Think of it as a cross between a troop carrier (no electrics) and an amazon (looks like one)

"We are planning a two year plus journey through Africa & South America and are debating the two types of vehicles"


Bigpond I think your thread was hijacked:confused1: however its fun to see our biases in writing..have you thought of a Toyota that is available in africa and SA, would seem to be the answer...Alternatively use a LR but do africa first, when U. know all has been checked, then as the vehicle gets tatty U. will be in SA and find it easier to repair than a Landcruiser.

When are U. travelling?
Ch

The GX is not a Prado but the third world version of the VX - Now I remember.... I encountered these in N.Af. Good simple vehicles with big 4.2 diesel but no turbo so don't know how they will perform at altitude in South America ??

Think you can buy them from some German dealers but not cheaply.

Why faff about - just get a pre 98 VX (£6k or less) or tdi Defender from the UK.

Andrew

Andrew,
the question was about newer landcruisers and TD5 landrovers - post 2000. In that case the G wagen is certainly a contender since they all have electronics and yes a better relyability record. We all see broken down vehicles by the side of the road.
If the question had been which vehicle (of any age) then the options open up
but in the 5 or 6 year old category unless you import a third world spec landcruiser then the G wagen has proved itself over and over with the basic 461 model off the shelf - no mods. Yes you won't be able to get bits in the middle of nowhere - nor will you for a 100 series cruiser or TD5.
FWIW the injection pump on the merc 290 is the same as a standard peugeot item

which biscuit to dunk in your cup of tea - Ginger Nut, or Hob Nob?

Cheers,
Matt


Oh, UK GX'x do have turbos

Mercedes 461 worker

if anyone is interested.:rolleyes2:

Matt - chocolate:thumbup1:

This is like watching tennis or volleyball...
 

Here we go again; already at 3 pages.
They're both boxes with the same number of wheels.
A large part of what they are capable of and how much they guzzle depends on driver competence/foolishness/care or whatever you want to call it.
Whatever car you take you’ll probably end up loading it to its limits, unless you’re very well disciplined/experienced (the former comes with the latter)
Sod's law (or is it Murphy) states that the moment you're stuck in some sand/mud/snow/melted chocolate or whatever there'll be someone who comes sailing by in the other brand car.

There’s not really enough space to sit on a porta potti in either (no I don’t have a bowel problem I just relish those tranquil moments, not rushing to finish in the fear that someone else is going to appear around the bush/rock/building where everyone else has already gone)

Absolutely FORCED to choose, I’d still try and find a way to choose a Daily; although at the Salon 4x4 de Val d’Isère I’ve seen some (almost) respectable camper conversions on both LR and TLC

After market upgrades: Have you ever asked yourself WHY a certain brand has so many upgrades available?

Service it, get in, drive, enjoy, fix what breaks with the facilities available where it breaks (if). The willingness and generosity of people to help travellers in distress has never ceased to amaze me, both from what I have experienced and in all the travelogs I have read. We “civilized” people have lost something there…

Talking technical: lots of people are wary of electronics. If electronic gubbins are going to pack in, they usually do it in the first year or so of their life, I wouldn’t be too worried about well tested circuit boards.
But the idea of a rubber timing belt makes me nervous; they seem to have a self destruct mileage built in, and although one can usually plan service intervals, I’ve seen more than one engine mangled because of cack in the belt pulleys and teeth.
A good old chain or gear drive will perhaps wear or be noisy, but IMHO is less likely to snap.
What type does the TLC use?

Chocolate fingers are best, but first you have to bite both ends off and then suck the tea up like a straw.

Back to the thread. My very first car was a landrover, but I think i would be tempted to take the Toyota. Check which vehicle has the best spares support in the countries you wish to travel.

baswacky.

I can't tell one toyota from another, but I gather from this thread some are not easy to find in the UK. You could try Germany or Holland, anyway I think a LHD would be best for SA and the Americas.

I use mobile.de as a good source for motorcyles.

I did a quick check and a search came up with over a 1000 landcruisers, like this one

mobile.de - the car market for second-hand and new vehicles

I brought a couple of motorcycles from Germany, cheap flight over drive them back, MOT and UK registartion, easy. Number plates can be an issue in germany, just need to be a bit creative about that.

Steve

Timing belts
 

Luke,
to answer your question all the LCs being talked about here use timing belts. Landrover Tdi engines also use them (and used to have a pretty serious quality issue). Landrover Td5 uses a chain.

On the recent landcruisers (HZJ105) the timing belt interval is 150,000kms. We have seen them let go before that with predictable consequences.

Gil

Sorry, can't resist - G wagens have a chain:thumbup1:

"Andrew,
the question was about newer landcruisers and TD5 landrovers - post 2000. "

That is correct - but in the interests of hopefully offering good advice I have tried to highlight the advantages of older, simpler, cheaper vehicles.

I'm with you there Andrew, we all plough our different furrows in the world - otherwise we wouldn't have found this place. Diversity is what makes this forum interesting. I wasn't trying to be contentious suggesting a G wagen - in good order it will do the same as a landcruiser or landrover.

"but in the interests of hopefully offering good advice I have tried to highlight the advantages of older, simpler, cheaper vehicles."

As you may have guessed I have a G wagen - made in 1986 with 180,000miles on it. Yes it is well maintained, I have replaced the springs and shocks and numerous other small things over the past 5 years - preventative medicine. It will carry a 1 ton payload ( within factory spec), 200kg approved roof load, offers the same comfort levels as a basic landcruiser, none of the noise of a landrover, doesn't break half shafts, cruises at 70 mph on the motorway and has dealt with the worst sand dunes the sahara has to offer.
Cost - £2000
Mods - £1500
Kit - too much
Yes I would set off on the trip around africa and south america in it with complete confidence.
Yes I agree that older, well maintained, simpler vehicles have advantages but given £15,000 I would buy a low milage mercedes 290gdt, give it a good service and set off around the world.:taz:
Rant over
Chris

ref chocolate fingers - doesn't the chocolate melt and become sticky as you suck the tea up?
I do like a Ginger Nut myself..


What about a late Discovery 300 Tdi (1999), superior driving position, much quieter and comfier than a Defender, higher transfer box ratio (nicer cruising), much cheaper than a Defender, maybe not as 'romantic' though.

Just about to make myself a hot chocolate as it -1 deg C here today.

Cheers,
Matt

Now the thing about chocolate is it's designed to be eaten at an optimum temperature.............and -1 is a bit too cold, but the sun is up and that helps.
Now when I've finished my homemade fruit cake i'm off to fill a couple of small rust holes in the body of my otherwise perfect G wagen:thumbup1:

you're right about the choc temp.

I'm off to mess about with my 80 series Landcruiser and it's packed up heater! See, I told you they do go wrong!!

The heater matrix is leaking badly, so I've removed it, and I'm waiting for a new one. But whilst I wait...
http://www.mattsavage.com/matt/toyota_heater

Warm enough? I should coco!

What do you mean uk?
 

No dirt, no rust, no peeling paint........ this photo has to be a Toyota advert. shame on you uk. Tell it like it really is, Toyotas do get dirty, do rust and do break down, oh well this is reality after all, what a pity......

here's another picture for you. Same vehicle about 3 years ago...

http://www.mattsavage.com/matt/toyota_aa