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should I buy a regular 4x4 or a truck!
Hi all,
really interested in getting kitted out for Morocco, I can see it from my house in Spain! I have experience in camper vans etc, but require some assistance in the following; I am married with three children all very small and wondered what your thoughts were on vehicle suitability. I am on a tight budget so bear that in mind. I´m not looking to spend months at a time traversing Africa however, sustained stays in one place will be required. My question is as follows, should I not bother in purchasing a LR / LC set up with all the upgrades necessary to make it expedition worthy and just go and purchase a second hand military truck like the RENAULT TRM4000 which are about the same price as an entry level / tatty 4x4 in need of preperation. I realise that these may consume more diesel etc, however, they´re are already geared for expedition usage and I can procure a box to fit on the back relatively cheaply and do a diy interior. Some ideas please, does anyone have any experience with trucks here. Any families present too! cheers up front. Richard |
Hi Richard
A truck has lots of + and – points and it would take a very big list for them all, Simply. Up side A truck is bigger and can carry more stuff, water, fule and people. it can go some places that a LR/LC just wont because of ground clearance etc, and in most of Africa you will see the locals happily using them dispute some peoples attitude towards them, as long as you don’t want to do anything silly? Down side. A truck can get stuck easier on some surfaces and when they get stuck its not fun, 5-8 tonns don’t move easy, second if its an old army lorry some of the mechanics are specific to military units only and can be a bit odd and have hard to find parts. Last bit, have just spent a whole year converting an old Bedford “its only going to take me a couple of months” if I knew then what I know now http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb/wink.gif What ever you decide, have fun. ------------------ Rob Bedford MJ Old, Slow & Orange |
Hi Richard,
My ultimate aim is to do a trans Africa trip with the family (0.8, 4,5) in about 3 years after a couple of trial runs into Libya and Morocco. I'm aiming for an 80 series Landcruiser [I'm biased - see sig ;-)] and will take a custom built trailer when with the family. My main concern would be the children getting bored of all the driving, which I suspect would be worse if rattling around in an old LR or lorry, although with the lorry you might have the space to let the children loose in the back whilst driving. My plan for the trailer is to build it as a mobile kitchen with a tent on it for my wife and I and then another on the 80s roof for the children. On the budget side of things, what ever you do will end up costing more than you planned ;-), but also bear in mind that there are LRs/LCs/Trucks surviving in the harshest of conditions around the world in stock form - you don't really need all the fancy kit that we all want. ------------------ Cheers, Julian Euro Landcruiser Owners Club http://www.landcruisers.info/lists/ |
Jullian
You may already know them but have a look at Wolf trailers from SA. Exactly as you desire... but at a price. There's a post about them just below this string.. Trailers are great but limiting in sand/dunes, narrow mountain passes etc. jeremy ------------------ pigapicha |
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In the US they have a good sized military trailer (can't remember the name), similar to the UK Shankey trailers, but bigger, and I have seen a lot of good info on customised ones of those. Incidentally up around Worcester, there is a company selling Shankey trailers for around £150, perfect as a base trailer for others wanting to do it themselves. Quote:
------------------ Cheers, Julian Euro Landcruiser Owners Club http://www.landcruisers.info/lists/ |
Richard, you must be in Tarifa or Gibraltar? (or Algeceras?) i've got an apartment in Tarifa... i often look over the water and think "i must bring my 110 down here and go exploring!", although there looks to be plenty of routes in the mountains north of Tarifa/Gibraltar!
on the trailer side, I use an ex military 3/4 Sankey, it's great, uses land rover wheels, same track width as a rover, and plenty of ground clearance. ideal for off roading with. if you do buy one, try and get a "widetrack" type, which have the wheel track of a 90/110, not a series 3, and also they have a tailgate fitted as standard which makes loading much easier. cheers Jamie |
The great advantage with a truck or any vehicle that you sleep in is that its quick to get moving in the morning and when you pull in tired then its quick to get the kettle on for a brew or to get to bed
I've done my share of fighting with a clammy rooftent at 6:00am to get it to lie down, when its cold in the desert, a friend did one trip to Libya with a rooftent and bought a camper interior for her 110 for the next trip - she's now moved to a landrover 127 for more space The point about spares for old army trucks is valid although if there is a civi version parts can often be made to fit The other advantage of a truck is that its easier to bed down in cities and ports than a rooftent which stands out just a bit if put up in a city street Don't like the idea of trailers, my brain equates them with anchors I think , also for a UK point of view bungs alot on ferry fares too but they are popular is SA and work there cos I think they are used as base camps and then the touring is done with just the 4x4 I have a friend who is currently converting an old dodge bus for touring in south america as he has 2 young children, another converting a dodge s75 4x4 cos it cost less to buy than refurbishing his old landrover Just remember that whatever you decide it will take both more money and time than you have allowed :-) ------------------ Rich LR101 300Tdi Ambi 'Tiggurr' |
I´m based in Los Barrios, about six kms from Algeciras on the Jerez road. I used to live in Tarifa a couple of years back but couldn´t stand the wind and building work that was going on around where we lived etc. I too can see Morocco from my house.
On the truck front, from what I can gather the Renault TRM4000 is basically the military version of a civi truck but with a different cab on. It apparently sports an MAN engine found in many civi trucks so parts will be plentiful. These can be picked up for about 5000 euros in France. cheers, Richard |
If you go the truck route and still want a trailer then the British army have one designed for the bedford truck, available through some disposal agents. That sounds a bit like space overkill though!!
Andy Land rover 101 Ambie/camper Toyota landcruiser 60 series ford escort and 1968 morris minor traveller! |
"I´m based in Los Barrios, about six kms from Algeciras on the Jerez road. I used to live in Tarifa a couple of years back but couldn´t stand the wind and building work that was going on around where we lived etc. I too can see Morocco from my house."
yeah, I know what you mean about the wind. I heard the other week that apparently Tarifa has the ighest suicide rate in Spain due to folk getting miffed about the wind! Building is still going on there, although not /too/ bad. i'll be back in September... are you around then? want to meet for a Cerveza? shout if you do or if you want me to find any info on trailers and bring it over. "If you go the truck route and still want a trailer then the British army have one designed for the bedford truck, available through some disposal agents." that will be the 1 3/4 ton trailer. a bit like this: http://www.witham-sv.com/infopage.php?ID=446&Overide=1 or this: http://www.witham-sv.com/Lot-picture/lot106.jpg |
sort of, it's the ones in the background (green) I don't know what the one in the piccie is, never seen one like that but as it runs on 7.50x16s I think it must be for a landy, not the usual 3/4 ton trailer though.
Having just spent three hours sweating my bits off with my dad trying to get the rear spring back on my 101 I don't know how you truck boys do it. you must be bigger than arnie!! Andy landcruiser H60 landrover 101 moggy minor traveller! www.plymouth-dakar.com [This message has been edited by moggy 1968 (edited 30 June 2005).] |
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You don't have to be bigger than arnie, only as clever !! :-) Jack up axle, remove wheels, undo bottom shock mounts, raise chassis using high lift & support on stands, drop axle, watch springs pop out! ------------------ Roman (UK) www.overlandcruiser.info |
Front Axle off, change front springs, all back on = 4 hours
Equipment = socket set, axle stand, blocks of wood. Bedford MJ, its all about mechanical advantage. and Rich, 6 tyres changed = 1 day ------------------ Rob Bedford MJ Old, Slow & Orange |
If only it were that easy!! 'watch springs pop out' nah! resolutely refused to pop out!did it that way. by the book on one side, took 3 hours, my own way the other side, 30minutes! getting them back on was the really hard bit!!
I asked a REME guy the easiest way to get them off. his methods included big hammers (bigger the better, it's a complicated job after all) or a bottle jack to press them out, then a welding set to put your chassis back together! I ended up using high lift, bottle jacks, sledge hammer, lump hammer and 6 foot crow bar (thats what I call mechanical advantage!). oh, a socket set was in there somewhere as well. I think mechanical advantage may mean more knowledge and ability than I have!! hopefully will be easier next time, if I'm stupid enough to do it again. just the fronts to do now!! landcruiser h60 land rover 101 ambie/camper 1968 morris minor traveller! www.plymouth-dakar.com Quote:
Andy, You don't have to be bigger than arnie, only as clever !! :-) Jack up axle, remove wheels, undo bottom shock mounts, raise chassis using high lift & support on stands, drop axle, watch springs pop out! </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE> |
Just checked out you website Roman
good site but couldn't pick up the links to the overlanding pages, any hints? andy landcruiser h60 land rover 101 ambie/camper 1968 morris minor traveller! www.plymouth-dakar.com |
Regarding trucks vs cars...
Id go for the truck. Indeed I have bought a 5 tonner and converting it to a camper van. Just the thought of -after driving- having a walk-in living cuarters is worth the cost. Also .. a truck gives you a toilet -not a joke- Sometimes in the middle of a foreign city .. its quite inconvenient /impossible to find a public WC (if at all !) . It can also have propper showing equippment , and huge reserve of water. With a truck , everything is bigger. Both the joys (quality of life , confort ,independence ) and the problems (getting a 5Tonner stuck is not a joke!) , or blowing a engine , or just fixing a flat. Most trucks can NOT be towed away to the next town . Also I can simply not hold the tyre back in the holder as the wheel weights around 80 kilos !. Lastly .. do not understimate the complication of making a camper conversion out of a truck . "Its only gonna take me a month" .. and Its being nearly one year and +5000 Eeuros for the conversion (on top of 2000 Euros for the truck!) . Go for it Good Luck PS. I go lots of time also to "St Pedro de Alcantara" , 20 miles away from there. Nice area too. Javier. |
Andy,
You're right. I forgot to update the directory after moving the website to another server. Will be fixed a.s.a.p. ------------------ Roman (UK) www.overlandcruiser.info |
hi diesel jim, been off line for a little while working! I´m in the UK for several weeks as of August but should be back towards end of september. Keep in touch regarding that beer!
I´m still considering my options regarding vehicle suitability i.e. regular 4x4 or truck etc. Will continue to watch this site and others that are similar. take care, Richard |
Will do Richard.
where abouts are you going to be when you're in the UK? Jamie |
I´ll be in the city of London somewhere. Will know for sure within the week mind.
Richard |
If you are tight on budget I would buy a LHD long wheel base series three Landrover when you're next in the UK. For extra fuel you can mount two extra jerry cans on the front and then carry four miltary surplus water jerry cans inside. Two standard dome tents a camping gas stove and you're well on your way.
I'm sure you'll quickly learn your way around a Series three and your kids will love it! The rest of it can come with time. [This message has been edited by ctc (edited 22 July 2005).] |
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Is that a picture of your vehicle on this page: http://www.bedfordmj.zoomshare.com/1.shtml/Other%20Bedfords (the orange camper, obviously!!) If you want to email me, please use tmakins(**at**)gmail(**dot**)com Tim in Ireland |
HI Yep its mine
Hi Tim
Yep the photo you've picked on is my old girl, still doing a load of mods at the moment. just back from 3 months in Europe, if you want any advice im more that willing to help but im sure there's better sources of info than me!!! cant email many photos coz im on old phone line. can email layout drawings for Auto-cad though. |
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I would love to receive your CAD drawings - thanks - that would be very useful indeed, and I am sure they would answer a lot of my questions. Is the 'box' a homemade one, or ex-Electricty Board etc, or custom-made for you? I'd like to know the type of construction (aluminium? GRP?), and what insulation is in it? Seeing those steps to the roof, set into the body, behind the driver's door, means is must be fairly sturdy? I'd also like to know how the 'box' is fitted to the chassis? Is it a 3-point fixing, or is it built on the standard bed? If the latter, have you had any problems with flexing when going over rough country? I presume there is an access door on the other side. How do you do the steps up to the door? Which insurance company do you use? Tim in Ireland PS - a site that people doing things like this might find interesting is here: http://sbmcc.co.uk/forum/ They mainly deal with people converting panel vans into campers and motorhomes, but there are quite a few people doing some more exotic stuff, and lots of good people ready to answer questions. If you join, (£10.56/year) you get to use the search facility and there are lots of discounts available. |
Hi again Bert - thanks for your private message: I am unable to reply to it, as this forum is configured such that a new member needs to have posted 17 messages on the Forum before they can send or reply to a private message!!
Please email me at the following address: tmakinsREMOVETHIS@REMOVETHISgmailREMOVETHIS.com Just miss out all the 'REMOVETHIS' bits - I don't want my address to me collected my web-robots! Tim in Ireland |
Personally i would go for the truck over a 4x4 every time, from past experience of friends builds the cost is very much similar but what you get for your money is no comparisen.
Dont know a great deal about the Renault's, they are reliable so i am told and parts cheap when youcan find them second hand (especally in military spec) they sell for £2500 up which is a reasonable price. Now i do like the simplicity of the Bedfords, both the MJ and MT are fantastic to drive offroad and if looked after last for ever, plenty of good units around thanks the to MOD's archacic stock control method, if your budget can run to it the i would spend the extra and buy its replacement the Daf, it is a more 'modern' vehicle and parts are still available new through the dealers!. saying that i doubt that there a mass of factory dealers in the desert. One point that nobody has mentioned is the use of the old Merc 4x4 and 6x4 trucks, i work with loads of expedition companies, desert race teams and assistance crews and they all love the Merc, parts apparently are as easy as honda bits to find in africa, there extreamly cheap and trucks sell for good money making it a nice investment. i think the trailor everybody is thinking about is called a 'ben huir' Jen |
Go BIG
After travelling with an Italian couple and their Fiat (Iveco engine) truck, I am in favour of going big.
Take a look - scroll down for the pics... http://www.bigsky-adventures.com/dia.../27-feb-05.htm A major consideration is the destination of the trip - Luca & Sameena (Fiat Truck) found that Southern Africa in a truck was very very expensive. In East Africa, another couple we travelled with (in a Unimog) were refused entry in Ngorogoro crater due to the size of the vehicle. Say that, I want a truck for the next adventure... |
I know a company called First48 does overland trips and they convert all there own trucks themselves, think they have both Ford and Bedford chassis..
I know the Bedford is up for sale for £5000 with all the kit with it... http://www.go-overland.com/ For anyone thinking of using a Unimog a cautionary tale... these vehicle are not built like a truck but more a tractor, from personal experience i can say they are far from the sort of thing you can do DIY repairs at the side of the road on... if you do want to use one i would stongly suggest a FULL rebuild before you intend to travel but be aware that is not cheap..£10k plus! |
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