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sand ladders
hi
what is the best length for sand ladders? (not sand ladders but aluminum PSP).... to use in a LR 88? and one question: are they reality necessary and justify the weight? Around 12 kgs plus the mounts.... going to mauritania... ------------------ best regards from Portugal bernardo feio lightweight |
Probably not really worth it although they look good for posing. Traveled with a Dutch landrover that had roll out plastic / rubber style ones - lot easier to use and store and seems as effective. The alluminum ones are good, mine are about 1.2 metres long, but they cumbersome to detach and attach on the side of the roof rack. Its probably useful having something if you are going in to the desert but think on a 4x4, the roll out ones are probably as effective.
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"and one question: are they reality necessary and justify the weight? Around 12 kgs plus the mounts...."
Last year, in Mauritânia, we found that a pull from another vehicle was much easier and faster...I end up abondoning my home made ladders before the trip ended. They do look good in the pictures though ;-) Regards, NCR |
hi
they look nice.... but ading a few kgs just for the look is not my style!! (around 10 kgs if the plates are 1.1 m) I'm asking this because a have a pair a Al plates... and if they are not used in desert what are their propose? last year in Mauri I didn't take them and they were never missed.... the LW with the michelin XS never got stuck... but the sand was a bit wet ------------------ best regards from Portugal bernardo feio lightweight |
I've just bought a set (1,25m alluminium), I hope never to have to use them in anger, but their main purpose until I do is to cover my long glass windows in the rear of my truck. They are perfect for that and they also make a usefull emergency table/bench wether or not they turn out to be essentilial is yet to be seen.
------------------ Enzo BUNDUBASHER.com |
If you are going into areas of soft sand they are extremely useful. If not, their use is debateable, though they are also good for mud. You can also use them resting on jerry cans for cooking surfaces or tables!
I have two sets - four 1 metre-long aluminium alloy ladders; quite short but nice and light, and a pair of military PSP 'pierced steel planks', which, from memory, are about a metre and a half (mine are in the UK, Im in Cairo at the mo). They are stronger than the ally ones but not strong enough to bridge with. They are also a lot heavier, but fine as far as sand ladders. If money's no object, get some glassfibre or composite ones. A metre length is a bit too short, and four or six (6 can be overkill) is the ideal number; 1. You need them long enough to be under the wheel and at the same time also provide space for the car to move along them (hence longer than a metre) 2. Ideally in really bad conditions (eg saltmarsh) you need them under the wheel and also laid down on your intended path (hence more than 4 - this number can be split between two cars, obviously) Your best idea is to avoid soft sand and bad going. But in some circumstances you may not be able to. Hope that helps http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb/smile.gif |
hi Since I’m going to pass mauri in august is better to take the plates... last year we didn’t catch much soft sand but we did catch lots of rain and lakes full of water... I will put them in the top of the LW in front of the roof-tent. I will put them with a small angle and they will act has a wind deflector... If I don’t have to use them maybe, at least, I will save a few liters of diesel! :-) The LW has 88’’ between axels so I will cut my 1.5 m plates in 1.1m or 1.2 m and will save a few kgs. Thanks to all and obrigado Nuno ------------------ best regards from Portugal bernardo feio lightweight |
Hi Bernardo
We used our alu. sand ladders a lot in Mauri. but the pajero was 2.5 tons with a full load of fuel and water, so a light weight may be OK. They spent most of the trip under the roof rack, but I welded a couple of hooks on the bull bar, and hung them on there held down with a bungee, so to lay them when we got stuck was easy, and hang them back on for the next time! Happy Trails Bruce |
I think sand ladders are a must have safety item. Hopefully you’ll never use them but sometimes there are no alternatives. I‘ve personally been in a couple of situations where a vehicles got stuck in a large patch of soft sand and fesh-fesh and any whenever I came close enough to pull it out I got stuck too.
Even though I never used them since I installed a winch I still carry them as backup in case the winch, battery or alternator goes bad. But get the alu or composite ones. Steel ones are too heavy. ------------------ A.B. OasisPhoto.com – Images from the Magical Sahara. ShortWheelbase.com – Jeep preparations. Coordinates Converter – Lat/Long <-> UTM Conversion Tool. |
I must say the one time I ever got out my sand plates in four years of carrying them around - only a winch could pull me out from a 'vortex' deep inside an erg.
On any other occasion I find, reversing, pushing or (lately) snatch ropes much more effective. For a solo vehicle which can't make use of the above they can be useful, but then who would venture into 'sand plate' terrain alone? In my experience people worry about getting stuck but very quickly get a 'feel' for their vehicles and within a day or two never get stuck - apart from surprise soft patches. I am always looking to do it with the least amount of gear Ch |
Here in the UAE we are in heavy dunes all of the time.Snatch towing is the easiest recovery but there are frequent times when SLs are used.However,if you are travelling with a group only one/two sets between you would be enough.If in doubt take them!
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To add another positive voice. When driving in dunes, sand ladders are indispensable as back-up. Especially as it is often difficult or undesirable to get another vehicle into the situation you find yourself in.
Just back from the Ubari Sand Sea where they had one or two important outings!! |
They are those items you if you dont have you will probably need - I would definitely take some and just make sure they are stowed out of the way, (but still accesable) so they dont interfere with your daily set up and take down. I used glass fibre 270mm x1200mm sand mats from uk company Bridging Ladders for off roading and 4x4 ing an excellent 4x4 accessory - used for a landrovers - 4 x 4 for sale (£67 a pair) they are very light (6kg a pair) and they supported a friends 3 ton landcruiser (he has a 400 litre diesel tank) on some very soft fech fech no problem, I thought they would snap for sure but I winched him onto them and they were fine, cheap, compact and easy to store. If you dont have a winch then KERR's are great bits of kit too, but with a Lightwieght on 7.50 XS - you shouldn't get stuck too much. The most important thing is too keep the weight to a minimum.
Cheers, Gipper. |
Where's he going with a 400L fuel tank??!!
By my estimates that gives him over 2000kms range? Sam. |
Sorry, getting back to the point about sand ladders.
Never had them, so never used them. Have spent well over a year of my life in the soft stuff. Sam. |
hi
In a philosophy of saving weight I think I will go like Sam :-) ... no sand ladders. 4 jipes, to of them with winches will be more then enough.... I whop!!! thanks to all ------------------ best regards from Portugal bernardo feio lightweight |
"4 jipes, to of them with winches will be more then enough.... I whop!!!"
4 Jeeps, two of them with winches will be more than enough.... I hope!!!" Sorry Bernardo, but it took me a little time to understand your post - but then my Portuguese is non-existant! On a separate point, winches are pretty useless in the desert (even with other cars about) - go for light cars, with correct tyre pressures. Sam. |
hi sam
in portugues JIPE is a all road 4x4 vehicle. JEEP is a band was much as LAND ROVER or SUZUKI. some times, when I'm writhing in english, I writh a portuguese word like JIPE because it sound the same as JEEP... :-) why do you think that "winches are pretty useless in the desert"? with 35 mts of cable and onother 4x4 near by it would solve almost all problems. for me the only problem with a winch the the extra weight... ------------------ best regards from Portugal bernardo feio lightweight |
hi sam
in portuguese JIPE is a all road 4x4 vehicle. JEEP is a band was much as LAND ROVER or SUZUKI. some times, when I'm writhing in english, I write a portuguese word like JIPE because it sound the same as JEEP... :-) why do you think that "winches are pretty useless in the desert"? with 35 mts of cable and another 4x4 near by it would solve almost all problems. for me the only problem with a winch the extra weight... ------------------ best regards from Portugal bernardo feio lightweight |
Sam,
I beg to differ with you on the winch usefulness. I found out that is saves a lot of time and a lot of energy. I don’t use sand ladders or snatch straps anymore (I still carry them though, read above). Whenever a car (or myself) gets stuck, I just reel out the cable, hook it up to the stuck car, and reel it back in. Every once in a while I respool the cable to keep it tidy and that’s it. The process is much faster and consumes a lot less physical energy. Also since there is no “Snatch” motion, its effect on the chassis is not as harsh as with the use of a snatch strap. Having said that, you can definitely get almost everywhere without one, it will just need some more elbow grease. It’s not a priority, but it’s really nice to have. ------------------ A.B. OasisPhoto.com – Images from the Magical Sahara. ShortWheelbase.com – Jeep preparations. Coordinates Converter – Lat/Long <-> UTM Conversion Tool. |
Id agree with AB, inasmuch as I have found a winch very useful in recovery operations in the desert. However I fitted mine originally for European mud and didnt bring it with the Sahara especially in mind. I do think they are very susceptible to dust and overheating and they are heavy when fitted to small cars. There is also the battery issue, especially relevant when alternator failure etc and flat batteries can be awkward in remote areas.
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Quote:
------------------ A.B. OasisPhoto.com – Images from the Magical Sahara. ShortWheelbase.com – Jeep preparations. Coordinates Converter – Lat/Long <-> UTM Conversion Tool. |
I have hydraulic and pto winches on my LRs - so no boiling batteries and screaming engines.
Hardly ever used either as it happens, and never in in the desert. Winches: 'pretty useless in the desert' is something I stick with. You have to have another vehicle, it needs to get itself to a good pulling position without getting stuck itself and they cost a fortune. Once all the pulling etc. is done, you are pulled back to where you started (unless you are very lucky to be the number two through...). If you already have one fitted, then you are not going to take it off for a desert foray. But if it'll take a chunk out of your trip budget to buy and install then I don't think they're worth it. But, like sand ladders, they do look good! Sam. |
Good points Sam. Winches are only ever useful IMHO in the sands for recovering *others*, and only then where there's a place to pull -from-.
I went for electric winches because they can run from a dead engine (admittedly not for long!) in a rivercrossing etc whereas the others cant, though I know what you mean about the drawbacks. How have you found the hydraulic winch? Is it a Milemarker? I must admit Ive wondered about them...... One point I forgot about sand ladders is that they are great for anchoring things down in sandstorms. Bury a sand ladders and run a rope to it and they make great holdfasts for tents, windbreaks etc. I guess you might even be able to make a winch anchor point from a steel one in the same way you can (theoretically) use a spare wheel |
It's a Milemarker, and it's fantastic.
That's it - no hesitation, no 'buts'... Runs all day, boringly easy and quiet - perfect. Have you ever tried running your electric winch without the engine running? It's a question of seconds (with reducing strength), at a pull line speed of... probably through a snatch block which halves that speed... ...hopefully it's a VERY narrow river! Hydraulic or PTO, with a wading kit, and you'll trundle right across. Sam. |
Yeah I did - just to see what happened! It did cross my mind. I run a beefy battery set up though, to get round that. It does the job too, when a friend used my winch once in the desert to shift his Nissan he didnt turn the engine on and it pulled it free.
I know what you mean though, it wouldnt get me out of anything serious. To be honest Ive always been slightly freaked anyway by the heat buildup etc from an electric and I have had my eye on Milemarkers for a while..... thanks. Food for thought. (edit; got a wading setup, I just believe in multiple redundancy http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb/smile.gif ) [This message has been edited by Runner (edited 08 June 2004).] |
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