Oberaigner 6x6 - any experience
 

Probably a bit of a long shot but if you don't ask.....


Having spent years trying to make up my mind which vehicle to use as the basis for a multi-year, "at least round Africa and Asia but then who knows" trip, I've decided to go for a modern vehicle after all (I know - electronics) and after visiting Bad Kissingen this year came across the Oberaigner 6x6 conversion.

I have an HGV license so was going to go for an old Merc 1222 AF or similar but have decided that for a very long term journey, driving comfort, noise levels, engine efficiency etc are worth paying more for, though I understand the downsides of modern electronics. So, decision made, it will be a modern 4x4 or 6x6 and I'm going in with my eyes open.
www.oberaigner.com if you don't know the vehicle.

I like the idea of having a 4.8m x 2.2m cabin but not having to haul it round on a 9 tonne vehicle. Using the Oberaigner means it should come in at under 5 tonnes on a 7 tonne GVW chassis, which I consider ideal. It's also 250mm to 400mm shorter, another advantage.

I've raced, rallied and rolled a few 4x4s for 20 years in Dubai so am not looking for an extreme desert adventure truck - I've already got that out of my system - but my only concern with the Oberaigner is ground clearance. Max clearance is given as 257mm on the tallest, identical wheels all round tyre option. I'm an experienced dune / sand track / corrugated gatch track driver but not so much on mud or "African terrain" - whatever that may throw at me (though 2 weeks spent in the Masai Mara last summer gave me some idea what to expect at least on dry roads.)


I figure there will be plenty of people here with an opinion / knowledge as to whether 257mm is going to be a limiting factor or just as good as a Land Cruiser or Defender in the ruts and mud.


Thoughts and comments welcome before I drop a great deal of money on a supplier quite soon - the plan is to start the journey post summer 2015, from Dubai.


Thanks, and have a great, healthy, safe, 2015.

have you considered that if this is a euro5, or even worse euro6 engine you will have fuel issues due to the sulphur content?

Hi Moggy - yep, but I may be able to lay my hands on an earlier, unused Sprinter which is I believe Euro 3. Alternatively I'm looking at using a petrol engine 2011 chassis, also barely used (little more than delivery mileage).which I can currently buy at half price - because it's petrol. But I figure what I spend extra on the fuel I can make up for in ease of use and anyway, I'll have paid for the first year's difference with what I save on the chassis.


Question is, in either case, am I asking for trouble using a vehicle weighing 5 tonnes with only just over 8" ground clearance. Maybe I'm still just trying to find excuses not to 'take the jump' but I'd welcome any input from those with far more experience than me.

I can't really help with the advice you're looking for but that's a pretty neat truck, I hope you make a build thread for whatever you buy as I'd like to see what you do with it.

Interesting vehicle, it looks like the 6x6 Sprinter has a much wider track, do you know the width? that's the only other disadvantage I can see combined with the ground clearance,, if its getting closer to an HGV track then you will find it very difficult to straddle deep ruts on a Western Trans Africa and with that amount of ground clearance it could be an issue - but this is only one area of Africa, people have got far less capable vehicles through. Id definitely be looking at diff locks on both rear axles, the ramp angle looks fairly good.

What are you planning for sleeping, will you have a back body on the vehicle? with the double cab there wont be a huge amount of room for a good sized sleeping compartment.

Ive often thought that a well prepped Sprinter diesel 4x4 on tall tyres would be the best compromise overland vehicle - decent living room for 2, fairly capable and quite fuel efficient, good luck!

Long term Im not sure if the petrol would be a good idea, I guess it would get you past all of the emissions Euro 3/5 can of worms for remote travel and if you are going to keep the vehicle for a long time not so bad, but the resale value will be very low in Europe with a petrol engine - most people wont touch it.

Hi Grif


5 diff locks available - across all three axles, one 'centre' diff plus one between the two rear axles - that should help keep me going! Check out the www.krugxp.com site for pretty much what I'd be specifying - a full live in cabin on the single cab LWB chassis. James I'll be having the back coach built by others - I don't have the time or temperament to build the whole of the cabin to the sort of quality I know it'll need to survive. Maintain it - yes, build it - I fear I'd never finish it!


Good point about the track width. I've been looking just now and can't find a figure but I suspect you are right that it may be close to HGV width. Hmm, food for thought. Ramp angle is good - 30 degrees or more depending on how I spec the back. Wading depth is 600mm as standard.


I'll be keeping it many years I hope and will be registering it in / setting out from Dubai. I guess if I bring it back here, where NOBODY drives diesel cars it'll be easier to sell. The diesel is 500ppm sulphur here and destroys modern engines, anyway why would you bother when a V8 petrol costs the same to run as a diesel.


All good points - keep 'em coming (I haven't been completely put off yet!)

deffo the way to go:thumbup1:

Fit good underbody clearance and I reckon you'll be fine. According to my 1980s book on crossing the sahara one of the finest vehicles for doing it in was a VW combi, and they don't have great ground clearance.

As you say, you won't be doing balls out off roading so I reckon you'll be fine. You've got plenty of experience and that combined with a bit of mechanical sympathy goes a lot further than an idiot with 2 feet under his portal axles!

I love the potential of that 6x6 for an expedition motorhome, but I would worry about spares availability for the drivetrain and suspension, and it's complexity.

Have you looked at the Iveco 4x4, thats a nice looking bit of kit

Mercedes is one of that brands, who is able to remove the Euro5/Euro6 Stuff for world travelers...

I recently wrote about: 4x4tripping: Moderne Euro5 Diesel-Fahrzeuge auf Weltreisen

There also some links to travelers where mercedes did remove the euro5 stuff as the travelers had their first breakdown in egypt.

Back to the 3 axles: The 3 Axles would allow a plenty of more load and will be a beast for sand and other offroad purpose.

Repairing and spares can be an issue, but this days you have this issues if you use modern cars. No real showstopper, but can cause headache.

Surfy

Hope to see the truck when you set off from Dubai!

Surfy that's GREAT information, thank you - the Google translate was a little 'loose' in places but I definitely got the idea. I have a friend who is into overlanding and who works for Mercedes Middle East (I've been busy planning ALL the elements of this trip ;-) ) so I will have a chat with him about what is, and is not possible to 'fix' either here or in Germany / Austria before the truck is shipped from Europe. That's REALLY helpful, thank you.


Certainly James, but it's at least 6 months away, maybe more depending on work and family issues, but my 2015 resolution is to stop talking about it and head out!


Moggy: I definitely hear what you're saying, and no vehicle will ever be 'perfect' but Oberaigner is a factory approved supplier who already makes OEM axles for Mercedes. The designs are fully factory approved, meaning there's a Mercedes part number for every item and I can order them from anywhere. Yes it's more complex, but I'll carry a few critical spares, and have had several meetings with the Oberaigner team while they were in Dubai recently and believe they are the right people for the job. I've been mulling this over for too many years and need to choose something!


I considered IVECO, know it's not a bad choice, but the load capacity and Mercedes support swung me toward the Ob. And a part of me, which is probably completely mad, quite likes the idea of being one of the first to try a not so well known vehicle and proving it can be done! I plan on being 'gone' for years so need something big enough to live in, not just ride in. Until I saw the Ob. I was going to use a big Merc., but the Ob. just appeals to me. If I quit in tears 6 months on, at least I can say I tried :-)

Yep, agreed, if you are staying out of Europe then why worry about the price of fuel :)

I just prefer diesel engines, you get better torque at lower revs, range and engine braking IMO

Which petrol engine do they use for this conversion? probably a 3 litre straight 6 I guess ? its going to need some grunt.

I like it, Its a shame you cant fit taller tyres (XZL's) all round on it, if you have to go with BFG's Id get mud terrains, the treads are quite a bit tougher than the BFG A/T's and are surprisingly good on sand - in slick mud the A/T's are horrible.


How much do you think this build will cost all in ?

As you can see, I like to write :-)
 

I'd prefer diesel myself (do Eberspacher make a petrol powered cabin heater anyway?) but was thinking about petrol because of the Euro 5/6 problems (and the cheap chassis offer!) BUT Surfy has kindly enlightened me!:thumbup1:


I was told that the available 2011 chassis has a "190hp engine" but the M272, 3.5 litre V6 engine seems to be the only petrol option from 2006, I think, and that is 250hp. However that's the same as 190kW, so that may be where the confusion comes from. The petrol produces 340ftlb of torque, but the 3 litre diesel V6 OM642 produces 180hp, and a lovely 400ftlb of torque. MUCH more useful. (I'm not an engine anorak - Wikipedia knows the figures, not me!)


Yep, tyres is on my 'list of things to worry about' but not at the top right now, if I'm honest. If I start down the E. Africa trail, in the N Hemisphere summer (August on - ish), do I opt for mud tyres, sand tyres (with 5 diff locks, no burning desire to explore any MORE deserts and 20 years practice I don't believe I need specialist sand tyres in E Africa to be fair. I may well be wrong....) Then it's the old '80+% of my time on tarmac so do I opt for comfort on the road and less traction off road' quandary. 6 wheel drive and 400ftlb will get you a long way off road..... I hope. Definitely still more work to do on the tyre decision front. To be continued...:confused1:


Ah, the cost. You HAD to ask Good thing my wife, who is refusing to join me on the trail, doesn't know about HUBB and won't be reading my posts. :laugh: At least EUR 140K, probably considerably more. I know, it's one of the many reasons for my wavering over the decision. 22 years in the Gulf has been good to me, but left me hungry for more travel, and I'm tired of Dubai now - it's time to leave the rat race.


Photography is my passion, and I write for local car and lifestyle magazines for a hobby, so hope to earn some beer money selling photos, some pieces for magazines in the Middle East, and maybe some local stuff as I travel. But that really is 'nice if I earn some but don't bank on it' money. The overland thing ticks every hobby box I have - driving, travel, photography, writing and gadgets, so it's been niggling away at me for years. 2015 is the year of 'get on with it'


I've also been doing some property development in the UK with the specific goal of paying for the truck. The first of project is on schedule and by the end of January I'll HOPEFULLY be in a position to sell it and reinvest, in project 2. But the profit on P1 will pay for most of the truck, at least, that's the plan. We'll see.. Which is why I'm firming up ideas because I'll be ordering soon. In fact today I was driving home, thinking about these posts, wishing I was back in the Masai Mara and thought "Sod it, I'm buying the Oberaigner". So well done to you all - I think I just got tipped over the edge....God help me :funmeteryes:

While it looks like a pretty cool vehicle... And not that I want to spoil the fun, but I can't shake off the idea that for that sort of money you could get something with very similar capabillities and enough change for a couple of years on the road... .
I wouldn't worry about the tyres. 285/75 is plenty for pretty much all routes that are also taken by pick-ups and bush taxis.

Ground Clearance
 

If a Sprinter base is a given, it may be worth having a read around Mantras.

I saw quite a few Sprinter based vehicles in civilian use in Iceland this summer with various bodies on the back. Some had huge ground clearance.

Aaaggghh more choices! Thanks. I think

In 10 years I have over 400.000 km WW experience now. Most of the time I travel with friends with different cars, 4 to 5 equipes. There is one thing I can tell you for sure:

Don't count on Mercedes global support. It will become a big disappointment. MAN and Iveco are much better in this.

Sorry but based on experience.

GRTZ,

Jeroen

Just to add to your dilemmas and since you are local to them, why not give Kamaz Export in Dubai a call? Ask them to quote for a new chassis, the one you want is a 43118 with the Kamaz 740 engine (EuroII/III) and it ought to come in ~£20k-£30k. In contrast, the EU version with Cummins Euro IV is priced at ~ €60k. There are endless variants of this chassis and a ball park figure will be the starting point and in this context, will almost be cheap enough to be disposable.


You will know of the Kamaz but for those who don't this comes with 6X6 as standard, disengage- able front drive, locking diffs side to side & front to rear, CTI, PTO rear winch, can be specced with 1600 litre fuel tanks. It is purposely a simple truck, has legendary toughness and reliability, if required can be repaired anywhere with simple tools. Spare parts are ridiculously cheap and can be sourced easily directly from Russia.


A new chassis would give your body builder a clean sheet which they like!


New trucks and utility vehicles; services and accessories for lorries - KAMAZ Trucks in Dubai, UAE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QylCp7cLfj0


If you do call them post some feedback as I am looking to buy one for myself but like you am prevaricating between a new chassis from Russia and a new (but 20+ yr old) military 43101 direct from preservation with a box for ~£11k.


Example of new Mil spec. 4310 chassis ~£7k


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LouhnBh7884

with a box ~£11k



http://kamazforum.com/go.php?http://...48faa663f8.jpg






Personally, I don't have confidence that the type of vehicle you are considering would fatigue well and won't have longevity.

Thanks Fastship (more choices.................!)


I am personally very familiar with Kamaz, yes, because they often run trucks in the Abu Dhabi Desert Challenge which I used to compete in - it was great fun racing behind them (and trust me, they will leave every race prepared Landy and Cruiser far behind them - the race versions are incredibly fast) because whilst we all had to drive over the crests of dunes, they would just knock them off the top - you could find a Kamaz just by heading for the dune tops where the truck width sized rectangular chunks were missing. But god help you if you held them up on a narrow track - they took great delight in nudging you off with the front bumper - many a racer's rally was ended by an unfriendly nudge from a Kamaz, they would give you one warning blast on the horns and if you didn't move over, they did it for you :scared:


But it means we are back to the old "8 tonne chassis, two tonne cabin" conundrum. Same problem, just a different brand.


Oberaigner supply ambulances and bank security vans in Africa, the UAE and elsewhere. I realize there's a difference between rough tarmac roads and 100,000kms round Africa but as was said earlier, mechanical sympathy goes a long way. Endurance rallies were never about finishing first each day - just about finishing each day. Before you knew it you were in the top 10 amongst world champions in your 20 year old 110 Defender, because you were still going, not because you were fast. Is a modern vehicle more likely to fail? Nope - a badly maintained, badly treated (overloaded...) vehicle is more likely to fail. In my opinion.


I've done my time in old off roading wrecks that needed constant maintenance - in fact I still have two 1990's D1 and D2 Discoveries I use as desert hacks, but I wouldn't dream of leaving the UAE in them. Of course I could be wrong, probably am, but I've spent too much time worrying about choosing a vehicle - SOME choice is better than none at all.


However I WILL go and see Kamaz Dubai, 'cos I love those trucks and since I've got the license, I can take one for a test spin! . I'll let you know what I find.

Like I said - these Kamaz guys don't mess about - there's a lovely example of "Dune removal" towards the end of this video. And whilst these may be highlight clips, I can personally assure you that they only EVER drive like this - "switched off" or "flat out". They have no other speeds!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUj6VQTVndU

Yeah we saw the Kamz guys around Tidjikja, Mauritania in the 2004 Dakar, they were barking mad - they overtook lots of people in very capable lighter 4x4s.
I know where you are coming from Tim, Ive run heavy overland trucks for Dragoman many years ago, getting 2.5L/Km gets a bit expensive if you are out of the Middle East and away from cheap fuel, Id make sure I crossed over from Turkey to Syria with dry tanks, to fill up our Mercedes trucks 900 Litre diesel tanks (3x300) for $54 USD, at the time it was 6 cents USD/litre!

Ive had first hand experience with Mercedes parts availability too, its nothing amazing, but if you are not in any particular rush, then waiting on parts to be shipped is not big deal - getting them through customs quickly can be a headache in certain countries though.

Id also go a similar route with a smaller vehicle, I have looked at 6x6 Defenders, Pinzgauers and the 4x4 Mitsubishi Fuso campers, the Unimog/Overlook is an amazing vehicle but is again too big and heavy for me.

What gearbox will you specify ? I guess it will have a crawler 1st gear and no low range ? any Central Tyre Inflation System available on it ?

Nope you can specify your choice of low range or ridiculously low range (basically 1/2 or 1/4 of the original final drive).


The Euro 5 440Nm torque engine comes with a 5 speed auto as standard. So that's not ideal, but like all these things, where there's a will there's a way. The Euro 3 engines came with a 6 speed manual - but also produced 30% less torque, so I don't know whether that box might be an option. Still looking into it along with so much else!


You can specify a PTG CTIS system but though I've used them on 2wd buggies in the desert, where there are very few trees and branches to rip the hoses off, personally I won't bother. Too easily damaged and just more stuff to go wrong. Maybe I'd fit a central compressor and some permanent airlines under the chassis to make it easier to air up afterwards - with 6 tyres to inflate it would be worth it!


Spare parts can always be couriered. A mate of mine runs TNT Middle East :scooter:- now THAT might come in handy!

If I'm doing some fairly hard-core off roading I still prefer a control of a manual box, but for not too extreme overlanding the auto boxes have come a long way and are very good - yes there are still torque converter losses ( torque and fuel economy) and you lose engine braking, but they offer better traction especially in sand where you don't have to come off the power to change up and in mud and snow less chance of wheel spin with a softer power delivery.
With some form of HDC for steep descents (or a very deep low range) and a manual gear lock control they are hard to beat and on the vehicle you are looking at- Id definitely consider one with a diesel engine.


Yes a central compressor and plumbed in air valve(s) would be a good idea, anything to make airing up easier when its hot!

just what my cousin did. He has a camper van now, nothing like yours, just a nice hymer and he and his missus just follow the sun. I asked him how long could they keep going, he said 'as long as we want' They live nicely on a budget of 450e a month and have enough money stashed from the sale of their last development to pretty much travel forever if they so wish.

nice!

Yeah it's a good point; if I get my 43118 I plan to take it over to Reiger Suspension and have them re-spring it and fit their fantastic shocks ala KAMAZ Master. Then I can float or fly just like Chaggin does (or did!).

All's I need now is to find who makes the air horns for Kamaz Master :rofl:

www.reigersuspension.com/English | T4

TATRA 810 is an impressive looking truck T 810 C :: Tatratrucks.com Mostly Renault but Tatra never made a bad truck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDr_Ud6fbYU

moggy the difference is - your cousin HAS a vehicle. So he's well ahead of me!


Since my wife is not remotely interested in joining me for my travels, it's caused quite some friction in the house as you can imagine. So there was no way I could spend a small fortune and blow the family finances - not with one daughter at Uni and the other due to start in September.

She did at least agree that we could invest in bricks and mortar, and that if I could turn a profit on it, I could spend what I made. So I hatched a plan, and I'll know by the end of January if I've received some planning permission which will have made it all worthwhile. I didn't see any other way of affording what I wanted, and I wasn't prepared to compromise, which is why it's taken me so long to get around to it. But I do see it as a good way of financing my dreams, just as your cousin did.


Fastship are you planning on racing trucks? Bloody hell I though racing Defenders and Schlesser type buggies was expensive - trucks are in another league! If so, let me know if you are planning to do the Abu Dhabi Desert Challenge sometime - I can help with some advice and local crew.