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Michelin 4x4 XZL
Thinking of fitting my Landy with Michelin O/R XZL. They are said to be good in mud and gravel. But how about sand? Isn't the profile
to rough and to how little pressure can the tyre be deflated? Any experiences? |
I used 760 XZLs on a Defender 110 throught Africa last year. Had no problems in sand with them. You can run as low as 13psi pretty easily depending on your load. Being a tall, narrow tire they give a long contact patch when deflated which is key in sand. They are also very good in mud and gravel, but no so good on wet tarmac. Hope that helps. Cheers Graham www.africaoverland.org |
Thanks for the info. Nice website too.
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I love XZLs and rate them over almost anything as an all-purpose tyre. I ran my 110 on a set for 18 months in Cairo for general desert work. In big dunes they lose out a bit as they are thin in section but I could drop them to 10psi with no hassle and this helped a lot (thick sidewalls). Where they really score is in mixed rocky desert - some tyres get sidewalls sliced by thin rocks etc - these are unkillable.
A bit wobbly on wet tarmac though, but no more so than, say, XSs or XCLs. Just a bit of care needed. Fab tyres! |
Have to agree that they are great overland tyres, but I've never run them on virgin sand so cannot answer the OP's question
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I don't own these tires but I have got impression that the O/R variety that original poster asked about is not the same as truck/military XZL that are stronger and very heavy. The latter are those that are more recommended. But I may be wrong, though. http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb/wink.gif
[This message has been edited by Rebaseonu (edited 05 October 2005).] |
I have them fitted to my 110. They are fairly crap in sand, compared to a sand tyre, but as above, have the virtue of very strong (12 ply?) side walls so don't mind the pressure being low, and they seem to survive side wall damage.
I had two inch long slits put into a back tyre in Morocco and it survived another 20,000km before starting to bulge out. They only last about 50-60,000km if you do much sealed road driving, but in the Uk you can pick them up on ebay for around 50-60 pounds each, for about 75 pounds at landy shows. people who buy landies with them on often get rid of them after only a few miles. I wouldn't spend a fortune getting them, but for an overland trip without too much extra sand driving than what a normal sahara crossing gives you, then they are a bargain at 50 odd quid for one reason - they are very tough. (I can write down the side wall o/r details if you like from mine) |
Considered XZL for general and desert use but dismissed them due to - 1. Rapid wear rate - see post above, 2.load rating is much less than XZY so more prone to punctures, 3. wet road adhesion not good. The 8.25 size is taller than an 7.50, the 9.00-16 size appears to be unavailable (both these sizes are uprated 'jeep' tyres whereas the 255-100/16 is 36 inches high and a true truck tyre).
If you can pick them up cheap it may be worth it but I would say that the XZY is a better all round tyre particularly if you can get them cheap (Vass are knocking them out at £40+vat on a plain rim). I have been on the same set for 4 years and 65,000 miles including 4 Africa trips and not a single puncture or problem. Probably will replace next year with same, or maybe BFG M/T's - dunno yet. XZL more of a semi-permanent off road than general tyre I would say, particularly in the smaller sizes... Andrew. [This message has been edited by Andrew Baker (edited 08 October 2005).] |
Andrew,
Do Vaas have a webiste or contact numbers? Are the XZY's new? I don't agree that they are more prone to punctures. All those I known (expert! expert!) who have used them (ihana.com etc etc) have had good luck with them (with tubes). |
Vass are on 01525 403255 (Bedford. They are used tyres - ex Northern Ireland 110's as far as I know, they swopped over to desert tyres and went off to Iraq, hence tons of XZY's (14 ply). Run tubed or tubeless - says so on the tyre. £20 + vat per tyre, 40+ with rim which is an unusual 6J plain LR type rim...
Andrew. [This message has been edited by Andrew Baker (edited 08 October 2005).] |
That's a bargain!
XZY tyres are marvellous, they just go on and on. I was really upset when mine blew out in Mori, they still had an easy 50000 kms in the tread after already having done 50000. Their weakness is in their strength, they are steel radials (not steel belted), and if you run them soft the steel flexes and fatigues. They're also pretty rubbish in the wet, but they really do last. The XZL is a nylon radial, and copes much better with low pressures, side cuts, rocky ground, mud, sand etc. The Dakar competitors who are rich enough use XZLs so they can't be that bad in sand. Mine are Dakar rest day throwouts (they had only done one special) They just wear out quicker. |
Going thru a tire dilemma of our own w the XZLs (hadnt considered the XZYs mentioned) but rather XZLs vs. BFG ATs -
Was hoping to jump in here with a few different ??'s - b/c our terrain will be a bit different during the course of our trip...not so much desert. Driving a '95 TLC 80 Series: UK to Cape Town via West Coast of Africa - back up the East Coast then possibly on thru E.Europe, M. East, Asia and then Oz. That said - realize that we'll be dealing w just about everything! Rain, snow, ice, sand, tarmac, mud, rocks, etc. We want a tire that is best suited for all which wont wear too quickly, one that will give us the most mileage and the least amount of work! Want to spend less time changing/repairing and more time enjoying a sunset with a cocktail in hand! Know its a bit idealistic - but we can at least make our best efforts! Very interested to hear thoughts on how well the XZLs might perform under these different types of conditions (leaning that way) - realize they r MTs, arent the best on wet tarmac and need to adjust for sand - but... how long have they lasted b4 needing to make repair??, dealing w the tubes much trouble? how quickly did the tread wear?? Would u take 5 or 6?? would u buy the same again or go for something else - why?? Thanks for the feedback! Slobo |
"Very interested to hear thoughts on how well the XZLs might perform under these different types of conditions (leaning that way) - realize they r MTs, arent the best on wet tarmac and need to adjust for sand - but...
how long have they lasted b4 needing to make repair??, dealing w the tubes much trouble? how quickly did the tread wear?? Would u take 5 or 6?? would u buy the same again or go for something else - why??" From experiences I know of, and as above, they will probably give you the least hassle, but if you need to change a tube on one of them in the wilds, make sure you have a few days water & food supply. They are very tough. You will need to know what you are doing. I had a tube valve go on me. 3 tyre guys with machines in Marrakech couldn't get the tyre off the (2 barely tried hard) rim. The 4th guy knew what he was doing and popped it off in 3 mins. I travelled with 2 full tyre/wheel spares - with xzl's I think you need to if your going to remote places, or even just somewhere that they would be hard to replace. In the lastest version of Tom Sheppards book I thini he says some good things about the bfg's - can somebody elaborate of this...? Cheers, Darrin http://www.roamingyak.org |
Just for the record XZY's are also supposed to be stiff and difficult to change but when I had 2 tubes go (not punctures please note) we changed one tube using just tyre levers and the other was taken to a repair shop in Tam where the tube was replaced in about 10 mins for 50p, no struggle involved. Tyres were on std 5.5 rims. Wider rims are supposed to be a pain at removal time but don't know if this is borne out in practice.
Only carry 1 XZY spare now as never have any problem. Always carry at least 3 Mich Airstop tubes and plenty of valves etc. Andrew. [This message has been edited by Andrew Baker (edited 10 October 2005).] |
That's a point, the XZLs are really very very tight on my split rims; they're probably that tight so that you can run soft without them slipping on the rim.
The XZYs just fall off once I've got the circle off, yet another reason not to run them soft. I've never tried tyre pliers, but I imagine they solve all that on tubeless rims. |
Luke,
I was thinking of running XZY's tubeless, on tubeless rims of course, but are you saying that when deflated they can slip off? Andrew. |
I've never tried them on tubeless rims. I don't think the problem will be that they'll slip off, more that they'll slip round.
That's not really a problem until you have a tube. They may leak at the seams if they slip round, but the sidewalls fatigue quickly when you run them soft. If you take a guide don't let him let your tyres down as much as he'd like; their experience is with O/R and sand tyres, not long distance HGV tyres (albeit miniaturised) Reinflate the moment you get out of the soft stuff; if you hear the slightest crackling as you inflate it's too late... [This message has been edited by Luke (edited 12 October 2005).] |
When you say the sidewalls fatigue quickly, how soon is quickly? I ran my all over Algeria at 1-1.5 bar, overloaded and in high temps as well as more modest Morocco trips and no sign of fatigue, even after a tube blew explosively at 70 mph racing a Land Cruiser on broken tarmac! There is now some sidewall cracking on 2 out of the original 6 but I think that's only age.
Andrew |
Andrew,
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Is this why you have now bought a TLC? ------------------ Cheers, Julian Euro Landcruiser Owners Club http://www.landcruisers.info/lists/ |
Thanks guys for all the input.I have made up my mind and ordered them. Looking forward to trying them this weekend.
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Nice one Julian http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb/smile.gif
Hi Andrew, there are so many variables onf loading, speed and temperature it's difficult to tell. My XZY tyres had never been run soft, they already had over 50000kms in them. It took two days of desperately trying to keep up with the guide's car/convoy through the Banc d'Arguin to destroy two back tyres. My Iveco is SLOW and heavy/underpowered, the guide bullied me into letting them down to 1.5 bars for the dunes to the south of the park. 4 hours later, in site of the tar the first one blew, the second went when I stopped to inflate once back on the road. A little exercise for the curious: find a piece of stranded steel wire about 2mm thick (like a bycicle brake cable), bend it to the profile of a deflated tyre and straighten it. Count the number of times you can do that until it breaks, divide by approximately 4 to take into account the heat and pressure in a tyre and you've got the number of turns your tyre can do before bursting. Actually don't bother, there'll be as many good stories as bad, Andrew is clearly a good driver, and although his LR may have been overloaded he'll have been nowhere near the upper limit marked on the tyre. The XZY is the only tyre I can use in 7.5x16 because nothing else has a high enough load rating, and even then I have to run them at 5 bar on the tar. I'm on 235/85x16 XZLs now, much comfier, softer and grippier. |
In prolonged soft sand it is a better ride for most vehicles to run at about 1.5 bar(between 1 and 2 bar depending on yr setup.If you change direction at very low speed or,from standstill there may be a tendancy for the tyres to slip off the rims.Don't do the above and you should have no problem with slipping.Learnt the hard way!!
After running on soft sand with deflated tyres the temp in the tyre is massively increased.When transfering onto harder surfaces we have a tendancy to be going faster than in the sand and this stresses the tyres and blow outs are caused.I found that if I stopped for a few minutes after getting back on a harder surface even after reflating,I did not have blow out problems.Also learnt the hard way(with others). |
Julian,
Musing on the possibility of a VX80 TLC, or maybe rebuilding the 110 for half the money...naturally the TLC beat us on speed - 200 vs 110 bhp ! Must say I was not aware of the XZL in 235-85 size, it has a good load rating and must be pretty reasonable in dunes/soft sand, better than XZY especially at very low pressures. The XZY is a very skinny but very tough tyre but is not brilliant in soft sand - you just sink straight away if you hit it but we discovered that determined driving and shedding weight helped enormously. Will now consider XZL in 235 over XZY or BFG M/T for desert and Sahel trips planned. Andrew. |
Andrew.
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If you want to find out more about TLCs do come along to our day out on Salisbury Plain on the 20th November - we should have a few desert ready TLCs there and also have Chris Scott coming along to do a talk on the ones he has had. ------------------ Cheers, Julian Euro Landcruiser Owners Club http://www.landcruisers.info/lists/ |
Julian,
This particular LC virtually lives in the desert and has been modified to give just over 200 bhp, he gave us a 5 minute start but it took him 50 miles to catch us.... I may well come along to Salisbury, sounds most interesting and would be intrigued to meet some of the names. Andrew. |
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------------------ Cheers, Julian Euro Landcruiser Owners Club http://www.landcruisers.info/lists/ |
From experiences I know of, and as above, they will probably give you the least hassle, but if you need to change a tube on one of them in the wilds, make sure you have a few days water & food supply. They are very tough. You will need to know what you are doing
Can't agree with You on that. It took me an hour and a half to mount 4 tyres with tubes on landrover steel rims using two tyre irons and some dishwashing liquid to grease rims and tyres. The first one took me 45 mins, because I didn't realize, that the rim has to go in with the deep side facing down. Anyway the last one of the four took me only ten mins, now having experience and all ;-) |
Getting them on's easy, it's breaking the bead to get them off that's not.
Even on my split rims which don't have that shoulder it's a fight. Fortunately the sidewalls are nice and flexible, so they don't complain about being squashed with the foot of a Hi-lift. I'm waiting for someone to tell me a story about XZLs and tyre pliers. |
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Couldn't do without the TPs - make the job a piece of piss. Must say I disagree with Chris Scott on the Michelin Airstop tubes though, Dunlop Airseal (in the 750 x 16 LT size) are much stronger. Also the locally (Kenyan) produced Firestone tubes look good although I have not had to use them yet. Split rims are brilliant although they must be kept free of internal rust - have just spent the last week wire brushing and painting mine as I cannot afford grit blasting and powder coating! |
Thank you Jeremy;
The only things I have heard about tyrepliers has come from salesmen. Being instinctively tight as well as mistrusting salespeople in general I was interested to hear from someone who has used them elsewhere than workshop conditions. They're on the list of things to get before the next departure, I already need to get away again... |
Tyrepliers are built for one thing and one thing only: breaking the seal on rims, and this they do brilliantly.
However there are one or two other products out there, but I've never tried them. Buy the Tyreplier repair kit as you get their tyre irons and a small tube repair kit as well. TP irons are worth their weight in gold as I bought some from Matt Savage and they bent the first time I used them. But, sometimes you need THREE (3) leavers to get the split rim off so buy a cheap one from a boot sale of something. |
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