Iveco broken in india on side of road- can anyone help?
 

Hi basically in vasco
low bridge stopped to turn around and truck konked out! Put more fuel in case but was sure that was not the problem.

To indian mechanics went through fuel system the same as I did bleeding cracking of unions etc Still nothing!

Nice man from chevey took me around all truck mechanice nobody wants to know all busy or as I think afraid as its not the norm.


Has any body any clues one mechanic think chain might have slipped and the pumps out of time as fuel appears to be being pumped to injectors.

Mate coming tomorrow to have a look from agonda but looks like it will have to be towed mabey to customs as visa runs out 28th May

Not sure what happens then

any advice would be really welcome, any one know if you have to crack certain unions the manual says at least two

thanks one very depressed and hot

Mark

Hope your battery has a full charge firstly, highly unlikely the cambelt has slipped.
If you suspected it was out of fuel, then get a can of fuel, remove the fuel filter and fill it with fuel, now put the rest into the vehicles tank, not sure if you have a self bleed system on that vehicle but get someone reliable(not thick!) to crank the motor over till fuel seeps from the shortest piped injector that you have loosened, start from shortest to longest making sure your person cranking the motor stops cranking when you shout 'stop', when you have done them all, try and start the van with FULL THROTTLE if it starts keep the power on for a while in case any air is still in the system. Hope this is of help and keep the site informed to your progress......Good Luck.

Just generic advice ,as I'm not familiar with your Iveco ,but I have bled hundreds of diesel systems .
First make sure that the fuel line is not ruptured or leaking [and therefore sucking air in ].Work from the tank to the injector pump .
Then
Check the lift pump for crap blocking the filter .
Bleed the filter[s] ,
then the injector pump,
then one of the injectors.
If you have a solenoid operated fuel cut off, make sure it's operating correctly.

If you have fuel then the engine should start .
Some diesels have an air shut off as well for working in some environments ,it's unlikely you have one of these but check anyway .

Fuel might be contaminated with water [water always sinks to bottom of tank ].Undo fuel line and let some run out into a clear container so that you can see .

Always look for the simple stuff first .

Best of luck .

Yes, do like the others have said and if it still doesn't start try squirting some Easy Start in the intake. (brake cleaner or WD40 will do if you can't get Easy Start).
Maybe it is (like others have said) water in the fuel or a damaged pipe and now you need to bleed the system. If it still won't fire, it should fire (or at least try) on Easy Start.
This is a bit of a bodge, but it should work or at least give you a clue of the problem.

Cheers,
Matt

PS, don't go nuts with the Easy Start!!

Hi Mark,
This is a long shot but worth checking if all else fails.
The hydraulic timing chain tensioner on these engines relys on oil pressure to work And it is possable if the engine is stalled in gear for the crank to turn backwards enough to snatch on the chain tensioner causing a momentary slackness which allows the chain to jump on the distributor pump sprocket.
It will jump one or two teeth, enough to stop it running.
I have only heard of this happening twice on an Iveco 4x4 usually caused by starting the engine in gear and dumping the clutch before it's got up momentum resulting in a stall.
I have not heard of the cam sprocket jumping so your valve gear will be OK. It's just a case or removing the chain covers and refitting the chain to the correct timing.
I have fitted a manual tensioner to mine to overcome this but I think if your careful with your clutch the standard set up is just fine.

I hope this helps

Best of luck,
Andy

I've seen head gaskets blown ,water jackets pressurised and frost plugs blown out of engine blocks by the use of too much easy start .
Also make sure any glow plugs aren't operating when you spray the easy start .
If you are not sure what you're doing then DON'T USE IT !
It's only ever to be used sparingly .

Hi
first of all thanks for all your replies its the norm from such a fab group of people but that just makes it better.

We cracked the unions and fuel seems fine. We removed the timing chain cover and tried to alighn as you would if setting the timing by inserting the metal pegs (drills and punchs into the timing holes within the sprockets. They do not align so this has suggested that its out of time and squirting fuel to late.

When we rotated the crank to check the valves all seemed good but we noticed that the tensioner is knackerd and returns back and fourth which it should'nt. This means that there is enough slack for the chain to bounce around the pump gear. Luckly it appears its has skipped around the pump and not slipped on the cam or the crank as we can get these two timing pegs in, but not in the pump

So it looks like new guides,tensioner which is 500 quid a pop. Howver could have happened in the desert or pakistan but it did'nt thankfully! and my head is appears to be intacked. If this works I have been a lucky boy.

If any body thinks I have missed anything or got it wrong please say!

thanks again mark
p.s every body says its a chain it could nt have happend but its appears it has

Hi Mark

If it makes you feel any better, it happened to my 40.10WM camper once. I tried to start it with a partly flat battery after it'd stood for a couple of months, the hydraulic chain tensioner was weak and had drained of oil, it snatched badly on the starter and then turned over but wouldn't start even with good batteries.

The timing chain had jumped three teeth on the diesel pump drive sprocket.

I've only just caught up with your post or I would have suggested it earlier, sorry!

I'm now on my third tensioner! However, if you do some careful measuring you could get the old tensioner welded up solid for a get-you-home. It may rattle a bit as it's best to set it a little on the loose side, or the old one may manage once you reset the timing - I drove home from Andorra when my first one went weak, without damage, it was rattling all the way back to England but not excessively.

I have a spare I carry in the truck which is an old hydraulic one with the outer end drilled out, a nut welded on, and a bolt with a locknut screwed into it for manual adjustment of the piston. It's basically a homemade manual tensioner. A local workshop should be able to do something like it.

Hope this helps.

Regards

Nigel

PS: I'm still on the original chain and guides, if they look grooved but not worn through to the metal they will go again.

PPS: Have a look at:
Google Translate

..........and follow the links from 'Iveco's Technology' to the timing chain bit ('Kettenspanner' in German!)

what a great link
 

Hi Nigel
what a great link thank you, made me feel that we are down the right track, how inportant is it to change gears as well as chain, have ordered parts from uk!

thanks Mark

Hi Mark
Bit of a long shot but we have an appartment in south Goa and many friends there who could probaly help, Just an idea depending where you are but Agonda is not a million miles away, Plus we are due out in the next few weeks if we can help,

Mark

Don't know if you've been getting the messages from the 4x4 daily list but the view seems to be to swap the gears aswell, the gears may be worn if the chain can jump

cheers

rich

timing chain
 

Hi
Had same problem last year on my iveco which had new chain & gears the lot. Happened a few times last year whilst in Africa.Got a new manual tensioner fitted it, worst job is removing thermostat housing & refitting(can be done without removing timing casing)No problems since or any damaged caused.
If your changing the chain then change the gears as you have to strip the front down anyway, the crank gear is very difficult to change however the guides are more important to change & can be done without removing the chain.
But as Nigel suggests a tapped bolt into the tensioner will convert it to manual tensioner & get you back on the road.

Hope this is of help.
Kevin:alien:

Hi
your probably right but foolishly have not ordered new gears so hope all will be alright? Did ask iveco mechanics if I have left anything out but they never mentioned this.

Thanks Mark

Hi Mark

In a perfect world it's good workshop practice to renew everything.

However, as Kevin says, his camper still had tensioner/chain problems with all new parts, and my WM camper has only 40k kms on the clock from new so sprocket wear would be negligible, but still managed to jump and was already on it's second new tensioner.

Unless you have an astronomical mileage on your truck, chain sprocket wear should not be that excessive and I think you should be OK. After all it's evident that it's the tensioner which is the weak spot in the design, how many vehicles do you hear of wearing out timing gears unless by damage or huge mileages? Chains stretch with age, yes, but unless you run stretched ones for too long and the sprocket teeth become pointed, you would normally expect to go through at least a couple of new chains before needing new sprockets. Ask a biker!

Regards

Nigel

take tow
 

Hi Folks
just a check in, got all the spares but somebody undid the adjuster and fell into pieces tried everything to get back together but without the special tool was near impossible.
As a result i must have damaged it so the van only ran for 10 minutes before same problem occurred . wE Had to leave India due to our visas ending and we are due to go and collect the van at the end of June. I Will order new tensioner to coincide with this and A tool just in case. I have a little niggle in the back of my mind, it is about lack of oil pressure the old adjuster was completely shot, but could the new one suffered from this?. Any ideas or advice welcome apart from don't let people play with your new spare parts that lesson has already been learned.

I also have slight vibration in first any ideas!

Also going to change clutch so any tips also welcome.

thanks for all the advice
Mark
p.s full story on joandmarkoverland.blogspot.com

Hi guys, just scanned you blog. First things that come to mind. Did you get the extension from the customs in writing. I hope you did...

Hi mark

You should be able to pick the parts up in Australia

We have aussie members on the iveco 4x4 yahoo group so they should be able to point you towards suppliers

Have a good trip

Hi
not easy but yes have all necessary paper work going back few days early to insure smooth pick up xx

tensioner
 

hi when you order the tensioner i would order the manual tensioner as fitted on the early 4x4 daily.Same fitting & has a bolt adjustment so is not dependant on the oil pressure(in case you have a blocked oil way)Also they only require adjustment every 30k km.There is instructions on how to fit it & the parts numbers on bernhard albicker .org (put into google & use the translator).
Judder in 1st gear could be clutch worn or wet or engine mounts.

Hope this is of help.
I,m sure there is a way to set up a link but havn't got a clue.plus i'm in portugal & its sunny.

Bon dia

Kevin :Beach:

Hi
Thanks intended to to weld nut and bolt on old one so had both options. Would sticking a blast of air down the hole help clear or is there anothre way of checking and clearing a blockage. How comon is this?
thanks Mark

Hi i have never know anyone to have a blockage,but i dont see it doing any harm.
Regards

Kevin

Hi Mark

Just picked up your posts about the tensioner falling apart. I must check the HUBB more often!

The new hydraulic ones come fully retracted, I think the plunger is held in by the internal circlip. It needs very careful handling because the first time it's depressed it pops right out and won't go back in! The idea is when you fit it you must ensure it's held in and when it's bolted home, press it (cover off of course) so it pops out against the timing chain which restricts it from coming fully out and off you go with an automatically correctly adjusted tensioner. As it/the chain wears it comes out to the next circlip groove etc. to take up the slack.

The rub is, Iveco don't seem to put any sort of plastic strap or such like to hold it in place during storage. So any jolt, or drop on the parts counter etc., and out it comes! The first one I had came popped out too although it wasn't in pieces; not knowing any better then, it was a while before I realised what had happened. I eventually made up a crude tool with some thin steel shim which got it back in and it worked OK, but as from my previous posts on this topic it didn't last as long as it should and caused a chain jump, and has been replaced again now.

I think you are being very unlucky with your truck; I agree with Kev, go for the manual option to get it repatriated, you can always resolve the issue and revert to an auto tensioner later if you want to.

I dug my Iveco out of storage at Easter, not been used since last September although I run it up occasionally. Charged the batteries up first (!) then turned it over with the fuel off until I got oil pressure before starting her up with no problems. I do sometimes learn from experience! She then towed my offroad racer to Wales and back for the weekend no problem.

Regards

Nigel

Hi Nigel,

Is there any precautions or preventative medicine that can stop this happening? Too late for Mark I know. it does seem a strange design. a heavy duty truck with a cam chain that can jump easily.

Graeme

tensioner
 

There seems to be just a bad design.(if you look at any iveco 4x4 website all have the same problem)Only solution is fit a manual tensioner or a stick with the standard one and wait for it to fail.
Also the manual one is a lot cheaper.You just have to take a chance,i've not heard of anyone who has suffered any damage to the engine when it goes,however someone may know different.

Yes, it's not a good design. As I've said before, it was probably introduced to get round the bother of having to take the chain cover off to adjust the manual tensioner so reducing service times. Everything is automatic nowadays; it may just be me getting old but that often really annoys me: perhaps I'm a control freak! I imagine the case was designed for the manual one originally and the hydraulic version had to be a cobbled up design to fit. Not providing a proper method of retaining the plunger in new units is just plain daft. When I found the problem on my first replacement I did go back to the dealer; he had four others on the shelf and they were all popped out!

Kev's right, if you don't mind doing the maintenance a manual's more reliable. But a badly adjusted manual tensioner can damage the chain guides if too tight so be careful.

I must reiterate, mine only jumped because I foolishly tried to start it with flat batteries and a 12 volt booster on just one battery, which had always worked previously but this time the truck hadn't been run for some months so the tensioner, which I knew was getting weak again, had emptied itself of oil. I'd never heard of 40.10's jumping the chain before that.

I'm still on an hydraulic unit but carry a manual spare....

Nigel

Hi
Can someone make the process of setting the the manual tensioner a little clearer as I believe some of you have already done it, cannot afford any more disasters

thanks Mark


Google Translate

ok no more mayday
 

Thanks every one for the help, new manual tensioner installed while laid on the floor in 1inch of monsson rain but at least it was warm along with new fuel lines seemed to have all perished while we were away.

Had enough by then so got local eicher workshop to fit new clutch ,oil changes etc funny to see 4 sets of feet comming out from under van. They took two days to fit clutch! where one of their own vehcles they did in an hour! I witnessed it dont think they are used to working in confined spaces or sit it really that bad a job! any way of to the Himilayas tomorrow. It just gets better

Mark
p.s what do people think of the ex police iveco on ebay at the moment and what weight oil do you guys put in the forward transmission.

how can I tell if the tensioner is knackered?
 

Hi Everyone,

I have been getting a rattle that seems to be coming from the timing chain, so I have taken off the cover and the chain seems tight on the tensioner side and loose on the top or right side. I can move the tensioner with a screwdriver. I have started the engine for a moment or two with the cover off and there is no rattle, had to stop because of oil pumping out! The guides that I can see I have taken off and they look like new, the truck has only done 140k. There is a bit of side movement in the links of the chain too.

any advice welcome

Graeme

Hi Gray
when mine went it rattled bad and I mean bad! it had rattled a long time before that gradually getting worse. When you started it could you see the tensioner moving in and out? and can you push it back with a screw driver it might move a bit should but not a great deal? It has a locking ring that prevents it from retracting back I think the movement should be limited, you can see the ring in the pic in the manual.

How bad is the knocking and i presume you have a auto tensioner not a manual. As you know I changed to a manual on advice from others and glad I did so as the autos seem to have a very limited life span. Hope this helps get back in touch with any more questions. May mate filmed it on his camera which proved useful as we could rewind and see what was happening.


all the best Mark

its a manual tensioner on mine too - and as Mark found out - i think the manual is alot cheaper than the auto

thanks for the replies, I have had a mate look who thinks all is well. I put the cover back and now there is no noise which is wierd, anyway I am going to run it to my local Iveco mate and see what he thinks. maybe I am just paranoid after the tales I hear!

Mark, I have put some pics on the yahoo Iveco forum. took me ages to join but there does seem like there are a few 4x4 dailys around which is nice. maybe we should all meet up one day! how did you get on with the cv boot, cant get the part number from that guy I mentioned.

Graeme

part number for the manual tensioner
 

I got this number for the manual tensioner from the German guys website but it says for the 2.8l. Is it the same for the 2.5l

Part number 7302418

Graeme

:helpsmilie: Old thread but hope somebody sees it!!!
 

Hello!

I have one of those here in finland, mine is 1997 40E10W 4x4 with 7-seat cabin.

I bought it with oil leaking engine, and started to look it and problem was one bolt loose in chain skids.

I ordered that skid and new chain and gaskets of course, i know i should take all parts to timing but that was too expensive, finnish iveco-dealers know pricing...

Now when i read your posts i noticed i have same problem and thank god i didnt order new hydraulic one yet (Btw price in Finland is 806€).

I drilled a hole on the back end of that hydraulic one and did a cone on the tip of bolt, wich hits into pit in "piston" of tensioner.

Underneath firming-nut im going to put usit-seal, lets see will that work?

-> Hope there is hydraulic and spring-made tension, and i tighten that bolt every 20tkm to keep "bottom" tight.

Hope somebody understood this my lausy english and best if some of you knows admiddiatly some problem in that, im just doing this in few days... :)


However really nice to see that someone else has bought problems for him/herself too :) :) :)

If somebody is coming to finland with iveco, please send email to uazmies@gmail.com :helpsmilie:

Why not buy the manual tensioner , maybe check UK prices

Graeme

Im thinking its best that spring and oil pressure keeps chain tight and bolt keeps tensioner not to get loose, then i dont need to tighten it so often and its easier to tighten becsuse i can left it a bit loose?

Comments?

Tuomas

Maybe I am not fully understanding your English. I would fit a manual tensioner if you think the Automatic one is broken. they are cheaper and easy to adjust. it is important to cheap the chain from slipping on the cogs and causing the timing to slip. if this happens the car will not start.

Graeme

Sorry bad english!
 

I took that broken (inner small spring-ring missing) tensioner, put it into lathe and made a hole into back-end with M8 threads.

I put a bolt there wich pushes the piston of tensioner, use usit-sealring and liquid gasket to keep oil in.

I adjust it tight and then 2-3mm back and voilá :) Big spring and oilpressure is keeping chain tight and bolt prevents piston not to go too deep in.


Working or not?

Thanks

Sounds like you may have found a way of turning the automatic into a manual tensioner. Did you take any photos? Please keep us posted of progress

also look at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...tions/messages

Graeme

Its in...
 

...and it works!

But i've driven only few kms yet.

Actually i havent driven that car more than 10kms allthough ive own it for 2 years.

Timing chain was bad when i bought it and i took it to one garage what disassembled it but didnt manage to assembly it.

It took 3 evenings. :)