Dealing with poor quality diesel
 

Hi all

I've read about the possiblity of getting poor quality diesel in developing countries and/or remote locations. I'm not sure if this means impurities ie dirt/water in the fuel, or what. 'Diesel Bug' does seem to exist, but is it really an issue?

I'm off to Morocco soon and was wondering what's the best way of dealing with this?

Obviously I'll try to buy fuel from decent supplies, but if there's an extra/different filter to install then I might as well do it in advance of problems.

I've seen a twin filter unit mentioned, and talk of different size filter holes (different makes/costs).

De-Bug and Powerplus gadgets look like a waste of money - I cant believe their claims.

What do the experts think? Anyone have experience of this?

Cheers
Clive
Land Rover 300Tdi

Diesel in Morocco
 

Hi Clive,

You'll have no problems with diesel in Morocco. Euro quality diesel has been available throughout the country for a couple of years. Look for "Euro 350" .Fuel stations are widespread so there should be no need to pump out of barrels, unless you're planning to spend a week in the wilderness, in which case fill your jerries/aux fuel tank.

Anyway, your Tdi will cope with poor fuel for ages, not like the Td5 or later engines.
See post here http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...498#post132662

Happy trails,

Jojo

Jojo

Mr Funnel
 

Google Mr funnel, available from about £12. I have never used one but looks good.

Graeme

Diesel
 

Given your engine I’m sure you’ll have no problems. Even the non Euro stuff will be fine. I think the only difference being it’s got a higher sulphur content. Someone on anther forum did point out high sulphur will contaminate your oil quicker so an oil change sooner rather than later when you get home maybe worth doing.
Mine was fine, just smoked a little more but actually seemed to run smoother on high sulphur. Lot to be said for low tech.:thumbup1:


If you’re worried about water contamination there are marine filters available that will separate water.

Russ

I can vouch for the Mr Funnel, but get the largest one or the flow rate through it is a bit slow.

BTW I tried putting water through mine, & nothing came through!!

if you do pick up some dodgy diesel & use the Mr funnel, youll be suprised at the stuff it catches.

I also have a Racor prefilter as added security!

Andy

x 2 for Mr Funnel and definitely get the big one. We've used one on our trip and it's amazing how well it works.

I also fitted a second 'water seperator' fuel filter in our fuel line and changed both filters every 15,000km or so. Maybe a bit overkill, but peace of mind.

Any more info on the type of pre filters you used? Type, where from, where/how fitted etc?

I've a Land Rover 300Tdi

Thanks
Clive

Check out ASAP Supplies Marine & Industrial Equipment and Spares - worldwide distribution.

They have all sorts of filters & elements, just check the tech specifiactions etc regarding flow rates and Im sure you'll find one

I use racor, not cheap, but reliable & good reputation

Andy

Absolutely Andy, i have one on my mercedes truck, definitely worth the price. West Africa diesel (esp Nigeria) can be really watered down. Plus the drop-in filter from the top with the 2 inline filters fitted means as little shit gets through as possible.

Also, try putting cans of injector cleaner though more frequently than you would at home. Poor quality diesel furrs up the injectors more quickly.

definte Racor or mr funnell when filling up and another pre filter in the line, more for going south of morroco

they tend to dilute desiel with paraffin etc and sell to you!!!!
Racor Fuel Filter Funnel

re bad desiel read this about halfway down!!!
Which Expediton vehicles and why?

I quote!!!
A lot of my clients have had huge hassles with modern Nissans, Toyotas, and Mitsubishis. One client in Gabon has been running a fleet of Nissan Patrols, and they are getting a maximum of two years life out of them before they need replacing as they become too unreliable. When they used the old diesel Landcruiser pickups, their replacement time was over 5 years.

Mitsubishi pickups in the Gambia last less than 18 months, but then there's NO preventative maintenance done on them, and the level of maintenance is "dodgy" at best.

Diesel quality is also a serious issue. My clients in Kolwezi, Congo have to transport their diesel by road from Dar-es-Salaam, Tanzania because the diesel available in the Congo screws up their fancy computerised Landcruisers.

I've heard from a few people now that lamp oil(kerosene) is used to dilute the diesel. This is not so good for your pump and strip the lubricating properties from your diesel/pump (not sure exactly how.what..?) You will smell if there is kerosene in the diesel, the exhaust fumes really stinks. A good thing to do is to add a bit of normal diesel engine oil to your fuel tank before filling up. About 100ml / 100 liters

Maybe someone with more technical knowledge can elaborate a bit??:confused1:

Clive

If you havent already gone, as the guys mention,Morocco fuel is generally good, though a Racor (or similar)is generally a good idea as you can get a bad tank of diesel anywhere.

doing interim fuel filter changes on the 300 Tdi (take a couple of extras wrapped in clingfilm to keep the dust out) will help to keep it happy if there are any doubts about fuel quality or the 300Tdi doesnt start instantly as my 90 always does. Though high concentrations of paraffin/kerosene in the tank will wreck the engine.

Also trying to fill up at newer fuel stations on busier routes with a quicker turnaround of their diesel stock can help avoid dodgy fuel thats been sat in a tank for a long time.

In reply to Pumbaa's question above.

Diesel's lubricity will be 'watered down' by parrafin or other additives with a lesser value. The diesel pump needs this lubricity to keep wear within the parameters of the manufacurer.

A lot of African diesel has a high sulphur content, (though low sulphur is now available in certain areas) which is detremental to the fuel pump and will reduce the engine oils ability to protect to the engine components

This is not my work, but explains what gives diesel lubricity.

'Diesel lubricity is largely provided by trace levels of naturally occurring polar compounds, which form a protective layer on the metal surface.
Typical sulfur compounds do not confer this wear protection themselves rather it is the nitrogen and oxygen containing hetero-compounds that are most important.'

I wouldnt be so quick to add engine oil to my diesel tank, if the oil has less lubricity than the diesel then it will not improve the situation.

Here is a link to a posting about a diesel additive study, worth a read, though a lot of the products used are North American.

Lubricity Additive Study Results - Diesel Place


Here is also a link to a study done on diesel engine failure which is interesting if your an anorak like me.....

http://ifleet.co.za/images/pdf/liter...20Wielligh.pdf

This test series demonstrates how poor diesel lubricity can wreck the top end of the engine as well as the pump and how bad paraffin/kerosene is, when used in a deisel engine

It also demontrates the need to have good injectors.


Cheers

Grif

Thanks for all the replies

It looks like I'll be fine for Morocco (only two weeks to go now!), though I think I'll invest in a Racor filter at some time for future travels - assuming the Land Rover makes it back from this trip!

I've got some injector cleaner which I'll use occasionally.

As no-one even mentioned the Debug or Powerplus gismos I assume my original assumption that they are a waste of time and money must be correct!

Cheers
Clive

HI Clive it does not say what type of landrover you have however most were fitted with a fuel filter & a fuel sedementor.
i have seen lots of disco's that have never had the sedimentor cleaned out, on my own 200tdi disco the sedimentor was 1/2 full of crap when i bought it as a poor runner.... it ran perfect after being cleaned out.

the sedimentors on disco's were normally on the inside chassis rail by the O/S rear wheel.

this should be cleaned out whenever the main filter is changed.

have fun in marroc. my tdi ran smoother on the diesel there.

good tip is top off your tanks in Gibraltar on the way home, I got through spain on diesel @55ppl in 08'

regards all

Gren

Hi Gren

I've an ex MOD 127 Ambulance, 1984. Was a V8 before I had the 300Tdi put in.

I've no sedimentor - were they not fitted to petrol engines? Maybe I should get one and fit it. I assume it would be an easy job.

Clive

Hi
on my iveco ihave the standard filter, sedimet filter and then inline bosch filter good flow any you can get them every where carry spares for sdervicing no probelms so far

Mark

Have driven over 500.000 mks in Africa and South America with a Landcruiser and 100.000 km with a mitsubishi in South America, both original, no extra filters or so. Engines (and pumps) are untouched and no black smoketrails yet.. Fuelfilter change at every 5000 km though (oil too, oilfilter every 10.000).

running CRD on HSD
 

I wonder if anyone can offer advice about running modern CRD engines with diesel particulate filters (PF, among other emissions paraphernalia) out in the high sulphur world?

Other than don't risk it.

For example if a PF is defined to last quarter million miles on < 10ppm ULSD, will it last just 500 miles on the >5000 ppm HSD you find in much of tropical Africa? I believe the latest PFs have some periodic VHT burn off feature to purge any built up clag?

And, if VHT burn offs don't enable a PF to last indefinitely, what happens to a PF that gets used up? Does it clog up like a fuel, air or oil filter, or does it merely not do what it's supposed to, emissions wise, but engine carries on as normal - as with a lead-contaminated cat. And it may even recover (clean itself) if you get back on ULSD soonish?

I know you can take a cat off a moto to run leaded, but it does seem leaded has actually been phased out RTW so there's no need any more.
HSD is merely being 'phased down' and only the richest countries have got it down to 10 ppm. Can you just replace a PF with a bit of pipe and hope the ECU gets over it?
Is that the problem in Kolwezi, Congo, or just contamination? According to very recent UN data DRC and Tanzania both have >2000-5000 ppm HSD, though I have my doubts how accurate that is.

thanks for your ideas.

Ch

Chris

From what I understand on DPFs is that high sulphur diesel basically screws up the VHT regeneration process (if used) shortening the life of the DPF

DPFs that (by design) do not regenerate will 'clog up' and eventually reach a threshold where the pressure build up can possibly cause engine damage - hence the need for replacement at the specified mileage (based on ULSD use)

It may be possible to remove the DPF, though it wouldnt suprise me if some maufacturers may have introduced a system that requires the use of the DPF in the exhaust system - especially the active VHT regeneration types, but its probably worth a try.

hope that helps, cheers

Grif

Thanks Grif, that all makes sense.

It may well get to a point where third parties offer a chip to get round the ECU flipping out when you chop out the DPF.
You'd think once the gas has passed through you can do what you like with it (ie: no risk to the engine, just the planet and next MoT)

As someone just observed, the cleaner diesel project will take longer than unleaded, partly because truck engines last so long.

Ch

Dpf
 

I believe a number of manufactures have had issues with the VHT burn off process on vehicles that are regularly used for short journeys.

The result being that they shut down in to limp home mode. Necessitating a trip to the dealer to have it reset and parting with a wedge of your hard earned.

Short journeys shouldn’t be an issue in this context but the fact that the electronics some how figure out that the DPF is not operating correctly isn’t good news.
Lot to be said for stone age technology.


Russ

Can I get this right.

Once in a while a burn kicks off in the DPF (raw fuel squirted in there?) for a minute or two when it's sensed that there's too much crap accumulating. The VHT burns it to an inert crisp and it flakes off blows out the back, via that cat?

This happens every few hundred kms, depending on particulate levels. And if you're running HSD it will happen so frequently that the DPF will get cooked?

An Australian bloke said to me it's seen as bad news for bush driving out there as the glowing DPF can set long grass on fire.

Ch

Yep pretty much,

the regen cycle takes up to 40 min depending on engine size, bigger engine = more soot = longer burn time.

The diesel injected regen. systems cant seem to handle HSD.

however there are some electrically regen. systems coming onto the market that can handle any diesel fuel grade and dont use VHT - so less chance of starting a bush fire and they can run on any crap diesel fuel used worldwide.
hopefully the vehicle manufactors will use this technology for there pickups/utes/suv's

Cheers
Grif

however there are some electrically regen. systems coming onto the market that can handle any diesel fuel grade and dont use VHT

Thank Grif,
to quote 2 ideas from the wiki page by 'electrically' do you mean:

Resistive heating coils to increase the exhaust temperature ('a toaster')
or
Microwave energy to increase the particulate temperature?

Both seem neater than squirting in fuel, but perhaps it's hard for the alternator to produce that sort of power if say, stuck in traffic, ticking over.

Ch

The electrically regen DPFs use a series of smaller metal mesh inline filters -yep basically like a toaster to heat each filter until it is cleaned.

The control unit only 'toasts' one small filter at a time, so the other filters are still trapping particulates - this keeps the current draw from the alternator down to a minimum.

Sounds better than injecting diesel, but its still more guff to go wrong......

Cheers
Grif

300 TDi extra features!
 

Just to let you know that the 300 TDi Discovery has a "Sedimenter Bowl" which is a pre-filter, underneath the car near the rear axle. Most people in the UK are not aware of this as garage forecourt pumps usually have built-in filters. In fact some UK LR enthusiasts remove the unit and say that it is just a waste of time and space. On the other hand the pre-filter is very handy in places where jerry-cans are the norm. If one examines the pre-filter one will often find what looks like an egg yolk in the bowl so one may wonder how much the egg yolk installers get paid by the factory! In actual fact the "yolk" is usually a glob of bio-degraded diesel caused by condensation or damp in the fuel. It is of course highly desirable to trap the glob before it reaches the paper element filter.

One thing that might be worth carrying on a long trip is a spare lift pump as these sometimes give lots of trouble. I had a bad experience with these which in the end turned out to be fourth pump lucky! The problem was very poor running and the kangaroo effect so a new lift pump was bought (it was an aftermarket cheap brand with a dreadful reputation but at the time I didn't know that) The original Delphi pump would blow but not suck so I assumed that the new pump would fix things. A short road test showed that the car was still limping so what could it be? Next I took the injectors to a diesel fitters but the pop pressures were all about 2400 psi and the spray patterns were excellent so it wasn't that. By now I was thinking cracked head or blown head gasket which was making me feel quite ill. Nothing could now be done until new copper washers for the injectors arrived. Once they came I was able to do a compression test using a dummy glow plug adapter. Although the compression figures were not Rolls-Royce after a few turns of the engine the gauge was showing about 400 psi which to quote an old saying "is good enough for government work!" I was so happy that a new head or head gasket were not required that I ordered yet another lift pump. Unfortunately when it arrived there were no union nuts or olives and once again it was that infamous brand so I didn't even bother with it. Next a new Delphi pump was ordered and when the box was opened the superior quality was quite apparent but you get what you pay for. The new pump was fitted and when the engine was started it was immediately noticed that it now had a smoother and steadier even beat. On the road the vehicle was back on top form with white-van-man performance available! I checked the first replacement pump to try to discover what was wrong with it and came to the conclusion that the olives were the fault. They were very hard brass and they would not crimp down onto the pipes properly so if you are going to take a spare pump, take a Delphi! Good luck!