21 Year old 110 or 12 year old shogun
 

So the planning for our trip through Africa is comming together. But somthing has made me think.I currantly have a 12 year old mitsubishi shogun that i have been preping for the trip but i have to admit i have started to have some douts as the parts could be a problem out side ZA and namibia and kenya then today i got offered a landRover 110 but it's 21 years old it's in good nick and has just had and mot the Shogun is also in good condition and has had a new clutch belts full service new brakes ect ect.
So now i don't know what to do sell the shogun and get the 110 or keep the shogun.
Just want to know what you guys think as the wife (the boss) is more unsure than me as i would get the landrover as i know them inside out and i drive the works one every day.
So let me know what you think
Cheers
Gary

What engine is in the 110?

I'd go with what you feel most confident about. Reading between the lines it's a LR. If you reluctantly take the Shogun and the head goes, you will be pretty peeved off. If the same happens in the LR, you'll get over it.

I'd want it to be a 200/300tdi if it were me tho.

I think that while the LR is probably more likely to have mechanical issues, the parts will be easier and cheaper to get and the maintainance in the bush is likely to be easier

This is my view too i think the shogun is up to the job but if somthing dose go wrong i'm not sure i'll be able to get the parts and i think somthing without an ECU would be better.
I think it's a 300 engine in the 110

If it's a 300 Tdi then go for the Landy without a doubt. Give it a good service, look at all the bushes and joints, fuel lines, brake lines etc. Give it a really good going over and it'll be fine. Easy to cheap to get in tip top condition.
Cheers,
Matt


Just had very nice home made chicken soup and really nice bread. But I'm about to go out for a bike ride. I feel quite full.... !

Go Shogun...
 

Gary,

With the bit of information you provided, I would take your Shogun. A few reasons why...

- you know your vehicle and you have said you have prepared it. It would be money wasted not to use what you have invested in.
- The majority of Trans-Africa routes do not require the toughness of the Defender. So much so, that a new Range Rover just completed a trip.
- The comfort factor of your Shogun will keep the wife very happy - esp. if it has aircon & a radio that you can listen to.

So, in summary: Take the vehicle you know and the one that you have already spent the money one. One more key point... the more you spend on your vehicle, the less travel time you have.

Go for the Shogun!

I think it all depends on the route you're planning to take, how much real off-road there is, and how comfortable you are making repairs.

If I were you, I'd take the Shogun, mainly because I've used them in West-Africa in the late nineties and they coped pretty well in the Sahel region (nothing too extreme). They're comfortable and relatively straightforward to maintain. Of the Japanese 4x4s, they come in behind the Landcruiser and the Nissan Patrol. Outside of southern and eastern Africa, there aren't too many Defenders around (from my experience), so repairs and servicing should be easier.

I can't really judge the Defender, as I've never owned one, but I'm sure plenty of people here can comment on it in more detail. The only Defender I've ever travelled in was a TD5, which could not keep up with the LC 105 in different types of terrain whilst driving through Tanzania.

Even though Mitsubishi's are not often used for the rougher stuff in sub-Saharan Africa, they're definitely capable of getting you to where you want to go. Use the money that you're saving by not buying the Defender to uprate the suspension (Old Man Emu or similar), stick some BFG ATs on, comprehensive service and you're almost ready to go.

Cheers
Joova

Thanks for all the replys,As i said i've already started preping the shogun i have fitted OME shocks and springs,Snorkel,winch as we are traveling alone and with kids better to be safe than sorry,snorkel blacked out the windows,new clutch brake calipers and pads wheel bearings, exhurst full filter change,duel battary system new bushes all round new u/js on the props and retro fitted air con.So i know it's quite sound but my worry is if say the head gasket is to go i know i could fix it but getting the parts will be a problem out side ZA Namibia and Kenya thus when i got offered the landy i got thinking.I'm going to fit KM2 tyres to the shogun if we go in it i wanted coopers but i can't get them as i'm working in italy at the moment and they just don't sell them here.
As for off road i feel quite confident with the shogun as it copes well here (I have 700ha of off raod track ranging from good to very bad so the winch has had some use) and because it's a shogun not a pajero it has rear diff lock as well as central.That said when i compear it to the landy need i say more but it's a 90 so short wheel base and that will always win off road the other advantage with the landy is the wheel size being 16' and the shogun is 15'.The last problem with the shogun is getting a roof rack for it as we have a roof tent for the kids to sleep in,I made one but as is the way with these thing i over enginered it and i felt it was to heavy so i have choped it down so now it holds the jerry cans our ground tent and a couple of other bits so i'm thinking of using roof bars for the roof tent any thoughts on that?.

Please dont post this kind of stuff its not useful at all.

Any car is just as reliable as how the owner takes care of it.

Servicing a defender is childs work with the right tools which are all very basic and a properly prepared defender will last just as long as a shogun would in the field. Both good cars but one is made for an rural setting with a dealership or parts link and the other is made to be able to run on a shoe string in the middle of no where.

There is a hell of a lot of serious problems with a shogun that could go wrong compared to the defender and even then finding parts for it would be a nightmare.

Shogun or LR?
 

I don’t have an axe to grind either way, not having a preference for either make.

From your description you have pretty much sorted the Shogun but maybe more importantly you now “know” it. I.E. any new noises, vibrations, creaks, groans etc will be obvious to you. Same can’t be said of the LR. Even though you say you know LR’s you don’t know this one as you know the Shogun. You have spoken about head gasket/parts availability. Does that mean the Shogun you have has an engine prone to head gasket failure? A spare head gasket kit is no big deal to take with you surely? The Shogun also has age on it’s side.

Also why do you think 16 inch wheels are an advantage? 15 inch has an advantage over 16’s in that you can fit larger/higher profile tyres for the same overall diameter. Result being increased volume of air which allows you to air down to a lower psi without compromising tyre integrity. If it’s replacement availability thats a different story.

That is the thing i was thinking about the availability of 16 inch tyres as 16 inch is more common.it's not a big worry though.As for the head gasket they are a weak point on shoguns and often lead to the hole head having to be replaced which could be a problem.The one good thing i have on my side is time as we are traverling as long as the money lasts so i'm talking to parts dealers to see if they can ship parts to me if needed and i think i'll go from there.

We've sent all sorts of parts to people travelling all over the place. The world is a small place when you're talking about shipping parts!

Cheers,
Matt

just use the one you know best and are going to be the most comfortable in -
You will be driving it and enjoying yourselves and the trip for a much larger proportion of time than you will be fixing anything - dont plan the entire trip around failure!

parts for mitsubishis seem pretty well available in Tanz, kenya, Uganda anyway and you can get some fairly random stuff quite easily.

the bearing in a small tensioner pulley for one of the engine belts disintegrated on my 16 year old Isuzu engine in kenya - walked into a small spares shop in nairobi and the guy pulled one of the shelf behind him.
I've also met a couple of others doing the long trip in Shoguns, so you're in company.

Thats good to hear about the parts it is my only real worry i plan on doing more fishing and living than fixing the truck but you never know what can happen and if all dose go wrong then we'll get a truck down there and carry on as long as we can

My experience is with slightly older Shogans/Pajeros, both in the Gulf and Africa, and although they are very able for short term safaris I have never seen one used for hard core overlanding where I always feel LC and LR rule.

However you have prepared it well, you know the vehicle and I doubt if there will be a problem with parts as Jap spares are endemic in Africa. I personally would stick with the Shogan and although the standard 15" rims would be OK, 7.50/16s would give you a little bit of extra clearance and is a standard sized tyre found all over Africa. My Toyota Surf came with 15" alloys so I fitted 16" steel LC rims without a huge drop in performance - just a little bit slower to pull away that's all.

Your main problem will be one of overloading but the OMEs will help out there. Anyway, when are you planning to go?

our plane tickets are book for th 16th march 2011 so we will be in cape town on the 17th of march.Overloading is a bit a worry but we are pretty good at cutting out all the stuff we are not going to need i'm just treating packing like i did in my army days "KISS" KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID and i think you can't go wrong

Make sure the vehicle gets a C service before you leave - replacing all fluids/oils/coolants/bushes/engine mountings/gearbox mountings/etc that need to be replaced before you ship the vehicle. Check all the UJs/wheel studs etc - basically anything that can go wrong.

Timing belt, flexible joint in your exhaust system/upper and lower wishbones, brake pipes, stater, alternator etc, I can go on and on...

I have had problems with aftermarket electrics such as immobilisers etc - dudt gets in and increases wear and tear - contacts get worn out and things stop working. Look for ways around stuff - like shorting the starter motor etc.

Take some spare relays and the big fuses you find in the engine bay - the ones for the pre-heaters etc - they may be none standard and a spare will take up little space.

If you fitted OME shocks buy some spares: one front and one rear - OME's are good but hard to get outside of SA.

Also how are you shipping the vehicle? Ro-ro will be cheapest but if your kitted up a container will be safest. Make sure the vehicle is strapped down well.

Sorry if I am teaching my grandmother to suck eggs but it never hurts to check.

all your advice is sound it never hurts to hear these things and remind me of the stuff i've forgoten.
A full service will be done before leaveing i'm lucky as in my brother has a fully kitted out work shop on his farm so the truck will get a good going over.
As for the electrics i think i've got most things sorted on it as in ways to get around it i have aready wired in a overide for the glowplug ecu so if need be i just have to connect the wires up to the batt and can pre heat with a push button as for the starter i know how to do it but on the shogun things are a bit tight so i may rig some sort of wiring up there before i leave.And of course i will be taking all the speares i can with in resson.
We are shipping the truck from felixstowe to cape town in a container it is a lot more exspensive but so is replacing all our kit.
Anyway it looks like we are sticking with shogun thanks for all your input it has put my mind at rest.

Sounds like you've got all the mechanical bases covered - time to start enjoying your safari!

Hello Gary,

Again, here, I have had neither of the Land Rover or Shogun.
I myself am proud owner of Land Cruiser.
However, there really is no point in swaping to the Land Rover.
Go with the Shogun,.
You have done so much to it.

'vette

I am entiltled to post what I want. if it is unsuitable the moderator will deal with it. you have basically said the same as me only in more words so wind your neck in and try folowing your own advice and only post relevant stuff instead of personal attacks.

It is well established (in the circles of those that know what they are talking about anyway) that some cars are inherantly more reliable than others, particularly when extreme environmental considerations are taken into account.

it doesn't matter how well you service it, take a morris minor into the desert and you'll have problems. the same goes for one type of 4x4 vs anpther

given the amount of work you have done on the shogun I think that is the choice for all the reasons already given. It is one of the more credible off roaders rather than falling into the chelsea tractor sector.

I had suprising trouble getting hold of 7.50x16s in west africa but I think the theory of swapping to this size is sound. I took 2 spares and tubes but still had to buy 2 on route to the Gambia and back.

In my experience it is the non standard stuff that usually fails. manufacturers own stuff has generally been far more comprehensively tested on their own vehicles than any aftermarket product.

It amuses me a great deal to read articles in mags on how to prepare your vehicle for overlanding. usually sponsored by manufacturers of the stuff they purport you need they are full of all kinds of frivolous rubbish. (not including you in this Matt if your reading it, I could spend a lot of money in your shop if only I had it!!!). You won't find any of it on the vehicles of people like Chris Scott or Tom Sheppard or other serious overlanders

The most technical my H60 gets is the electric windows, the only bit to fail in Africa, the electric windows!

The jury is out on aircon. some say it reduces your interaction with your surroundings because you just drive along in air conditioned comfort. It also makes acclimatisation much more lengthy and difficult. on the other hand, when it's 45 in the shade airconditioned comfort has it's attractions!! personally I would rather do without it, my wife and kids might disagree!

Hi all,

Having read your post I would take the Shogun.

I would ensure that everything was thoroughly checked and overhauled incl radiator condition. No half measures. As you have already "upgraded" to OME shocks take at least 2 spares - they work hard and can pop unlike the older oil based types used on defenders which are (if OE) bulletprof in my humble experience anyway.

I currently have a 10 year old 160,000 mile Mitsubishi L200 and ran a 110 300tdi for 12 years and several desert trips. My gut feeling is that the Mit is a well engineered vehicle, maybe not so tough in extremis, but I would have no qualms about even a tough desert trip with it, so a gently driven trans africa should be fine.

The key is thorough preparation, followed by sensitive driving. Upgrades come second.

The LR is an unknown quantity and to me any aggro caused by parts problems would be outweighed by more security, relaative comfort (!) and aircon...prepare and take some spares...

Good luck whichever way,

Andrew.

The Shogun is a diesel, yes?
I've got a 2006 diesel Pajero/(Shogun) in Egypt and I'm constantly having problems finding oil and fuel filters. Every one here is petrol.
I've had to convert the fuel filter sender that fits in the bottom of the filter to that of a diesel Hyundai Galloper so I can use one from that instead. Plus I've found the oil filter for the same vehicle just fits straight on without modification.
I just change them more often than required but there's plenty of Hyundais here and virtually no diesel Pajero/Shoguns.

Just a thought.

The shogun is a deasil but my one is a 1997 mk2 so not as moden as yours i'll be taking plenty of filters with me so i don't think that will be a problem

well it all came to a head today found some big rott on the shogun and i've had enough of it so brought a unimog 404 fully kitted out well happy i know it's a petrol and thats going to hurt the wallet wilst in europe but when we get in to africa it won't be so bad + it has solapannels and 4 new tyres xzy's so that has saved me a load of money:thumbup1:just hope it dosn't let me down we are due to leave on the 10th of march and i won't get back to england antill the 1 of feb so dosn't leave much time for preping it.

Hi. I have a 404. Great vehicle, very reliable and simple. But I wouldn't want to travel far in it!
All the best,
Matt

Good to know matt,we are going a long way in it but we have no time scale. we go as long as the money lasts and thats it, so no rush the one thing i am thinking about doing is an lpg convertion because when we are in europe it'll cost less on fuel and its also avalible in south africa and namibia we are now thinking of going down through to jordon and then aross to sudan that way so i don't know if it avalibale in these countys too i need to do some reserch.then when we hit africa fuel prices are much lower and we will switch back to petrol.

most of europe has good supplies of LPG. I last travelled in spain with an LPG vehicle 10 years ago and they had none there, but thats obviously old info, someone else may have more upto date information. In 2008 I couldn't get any on the autobahn ingermany but didn't try in the towns. otherwise everywhere has it, especially eastern europe where some garages only sell lpg!
never seen any in Africa but once you get beyond morrocco petrol is relatively cheap anyway in the countries I have travelled in ( west Africa). the middle is is obviously well cheap for petrol

Wow, that's a big change from the Shogun to the Defender to the Unimog.

Do you have any photos to share?

What's the general feeling on LPG? I can't recall anyone every doing a Trans-Africa trip with a combined LPG engine so it should be a first if you progress down that route.

Lpg
 

I don’t know anything about 404’s but think they could be pre unleaded petrol? If so they may not have hardened valve seats which will be problem with an LPG conversion. LPG has no lubrication in it so non hardened valve seats erode quickly. You can get hardened valve seats retro fitted though. Just a thought.

Russ

i don't know about the hardened valve seats but o looking in to ways to make the fuel economy a bit better it seems a lot of people have gone for lpg convertion with the unimog 404 it's somthing i have to look in to when i get back to the U.K.

So with a bit of reserch it turns out that the 404 has hardend vavle seats an sodium cooled exhaurst valves so it could run on low octane fuel and there for can use unleaded and lpg:thumbup1:

Nice one, I guess the engine is from an era when MB really engineered stuff correctly (I.E. before bean counters and Chrysler had a say) :thumbup1:

That sort of tolerance should serve you well on your intended trip.


Russ

I knew someone with a lightweight landrover v8 with lpg who fitted a connector/regulator so that he could just get domestic gas bottles (very cheap) enroute in north africa where they are readily available - DOT in the UK might not be too happy though:thumbup1:

I read somthing about this on the web but there was some safty isues with the placment of the bottles i.e not having them on there sides but it's somthing i will look into thanks for the info.
I tryed to put some photo's on but not sure how to do it can i just put a link to photo bucket?