110 advice needed pls
 

This is my first post here and I'm afraid its requesting info rather than offering . . .all advice I've already read on these boards greatly appreciated.

I am looking to buy a Landrover 110 and kitt it out for an African overland trip. Entertaining as that Landy/Toymotor debate is I am only looking at diesel Landrovers - lets just say for historys sake.
Has anyone any opinions/advice about what I've currently narrowed my options to? - that is:

1. early 90's Tdi defender, ex BT or Local Authority or suchlike - from a dealer with about 100,000 miles on the clock - top of vehicle budget at around £6000

2. ex-MOD mid to late 80's 2.5 N/A diesel- a few around with 60,000 plus miles on clock - around the £4000 mark for a tidyish one.

3. buy privately - has downside of not knowing when right vehicle is going to come up, and being based in London lots of trips around country viewing . . .

I am swinging toward option one - and spending £6000 on a vehicle thats done over 100,000 miles - is this foolish?

As the last Landie I drove was a series II (and that was about 10 years ago!) - are there any specific faults I should look out for in 110/defenders?

I realise this would sit better on a Landrover forum but I'm not aware of any good ones....?

Thanks for any advice.

Huey

If this vehicle is going to be a long term investment then I'd be looking for 110 Defender 200 or 300Tdi. You need a long wheel base for the load / kit you want to carry and the 200 and 300Tdi's are far superior to the early Tds and the normally aspirated 2.5. With a Defender you also get coil suspension, disc brakes and power steering which will make your driving experince far more pleasant. If your max budget is 6000 then you are probably looking at a 200Tdi. What you want is a vehicle with proven service history. Re mileage I a have 300Tdi with 150 thousand on the clock and its still sweet. It has however been run on fully synthetic oil from new (reducing engine wear) and serviced like clockwork. Has your average ex utilities vehicle been looked after so well? You also have to wonder about the gearbox on a vehicle with such high mileage.

However if you just want to make the Africa trip and sell the vehicle then I would buy the tidiest LWB ex military Series III I could find. It will cost you a lot less which in turn will mean your carnet will be cheaper. Travelling in a series vehicle is "basic" as you will probably remember. Embrace the fact that you are driving what is now a relic from the past. You should be prepared for mechanical difficulties but in your favour you will find local mechanics are familiar with the vehicle.

In either case get the vehicle fully serviced and prepared before you leave and check it at the beginning and end of each day whilst on expedition. That way you'll catch things before they stop you in your tracks.

I would also read chris scott's book Sahara Overland and Tom Sheperd's Vehicle Dependent Expeditions. I also recommend (dare I say it) that you subscibe to a Land Rover magazine (just dont tell your friends). You'll pick up a lot about the various vehicles and there are also a lot of adverts for vehilces for sale.

I agree with ctc - a 200 or 300 Tdi is much more suitable than a NA diesel or a TD. More economical, more powerful, more reliable.

Check for signs of overheating - that's what kills the TDis - that one occasion when it got hot and the driver thought he would just go a few more miles to the next Services.

A 300 TDi for £6K is possible, but you'd probably be better off going for a 200Tdi in better shape. On a private sale you do tend to get much better value, but you need to know what to look for. An AA test is probably worthwhile as a sanity check just before you actually part with your cash. (Offer to split the cost with the seller, and he gets to keep the test results if you don't buy. If he's confident the report will be good, it will be very useful to him to show to the next prospective buyer).

Good choice of both vehicle and adventure! Have fun http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb/smile.gif

Michael...

Thanks for what sounds like good solid advice ctc & Michael . . these boards are a god-send.

I have Tom Sheppard's book already (and am in complete awe of the thought and detail - amazing!) and eagerly awaiting delivery of Chris Scott's ....also (confessed only to a few!) am subscribed to Land Rover Monthly - as it feels to me the least 'glam?' having tried LR World and LR Owner International.
So plenty of reading material! I'm planning on this being a long term thing so all signs pointing toward a TDi - definitly seems you get a lot more for your money privately. Just a case of waitng for the right one to come up I guess - fingers crossed! Anyone got a 110 200TDi hardtop they want to sell?!
Thanks again for advice.

Huey




[This message has been edited by Huey (edited 15 March 2003).]

The other landrover option would be a discovery

200tdi 3 door discoveries are cheap and plentiful

They are a good motor and have the advantages of being a little more comfortable for long periods. They are larger than a 90 and can seat more people



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Rich
LR101 300Tdi Ambi 'Tiggurr'

True... You can buy mine if you like, since we will be getting rid of it now, as we are leaving on our RTW trip in a few weeks! :-)

5-door 200Tdi, 1993, new 235/85-16 BFG Trac-Edges x 5 (7.50-16 diameter)...

Thanks for the offer Micheal - however I've got my heart set on a Defender.
what are opinions on the earlier 2.5 Tdi engine v's the later 2.0 Tdi ?

Happy travels for your RTW

Huey

2.0 Tdi ? You probably mean 200Tdi. About as good (or bad) as 300Tdi. Avoid TD5 at any cost. Whatever the engine, consider extra in-line fuel/water filter.

Rgds,
Roman (UK)

Roman - I did indeed mean 200 Tdi - I was wondering if there were any significant performance differences (other than capacity) between the 2.5 Tdi fitted into early 90's Defenders and the 200 Tdi's fitted later . . . .

Thanks all.

Huey,

Despite all appearances, the 200TDi has the same capacity as 300Tdi. Confused? I know, but there are more strange things about landrovers :-)

300Tdi is believed to be more modern and refined - read: adapted to the needs of the school-run brigade. In terms of performance both are, however, the same engine.

Since you seem to be new to this wonderful world of second hand vehicle reliability game, I'd advise you to buy somethig as cheap as possible that looks relatively good, then have it completely serviced and (most likely) rebuilt by an experienced and trustworthy mechanic. Don't fall for a FSH, dealer-maintained landrover that costs a fortune to buy and another fortune to repair afterwards.

Rgds,
Roman (UK)

Roman - thanks for clearing that up - I was under the impression the 2.5 / 200 / 300 branding signified cc's!
Do you mind if I email you directly? I am in need of some solid advice . . . .

Thanks

Huey

Huey,

Not at all. In the meantime, you migh like to take a look at my old webiste


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Roman (UK)
www.polandrover.com

Huey,
Im in a simular dilema,
Planning a trip London to Cape Town leaving around Sept. But stuck on vehicle....im looking at Defender or Landcruiser.
We should talk!
Paul
Email me!
paulj1968@hotmail.com

I would be carefull with the 'buy cheap' option. Better make sure it's a healthy car and pay a bit more. Saves you lot's of time and money at the end.

Enjoy it!

Rob

Rob,

Are you talking out of experience or convenience?

Rgds,
Roman (UK)

Hi Roman,

Both actually.

It's convenient to have sorted car. Aint it.

This is the story:

The first disco I got was an ex 1990 Camel. Looked like a great car with all the expedition stuff etc. And thought I could fix it up for a couple 1000's of euros.

After more then a good second hand would have cost me, I had a car that had a hard time reaching 110km/hrs cause there was fault in the injection pump, the centre diff that wouldn't lock (probably only a small thing) worn gears in the transfer case, and something I didn't trust at all. I sold it, bought a well serviced 1992 disco in good nick and enjoyed a trouble free 20 000 kms with it (where about 8000 on a trip to Algeria, another 3000 and something on a trip to Kaliningrad with 6 people in it).

Getting it ready for a longer trip to West Africa now.

Good thing on the first one was that I learnt quite some mechanical stuff. Bad thing is that I could have traveled a lot with that money

Rob,

Out of two of your cars both looked nice, one was a dud, another OK - probability equal to a coin toss. If Huey follows your rule, what his first LR is going to be - like your first or second LR?

If you have a car rebuilt using genuine parts by an experienced and trustworthy mechanic, you still spend as much as you were buing a little used car, only you eliminate the coin toss.

So, if you want a reliable, dependable transport, don't expect to pay peanuts. It must cost money, but I prefer to pay for something that is a known quantity, rather than pray it will survive by the end of the trip.

Rgds,
Roman (UK)

P.S. I remember having seen recently a private overlanding website with a very telling title: My exploration of LR garages across Africa

Huey,

another option as long as you or a friend have some mechanical knowledge would be an auction - there is a good one in Herefordshire, can't remeber the name off hand, but if anyone wants it send me an email and I will dig it out.
Happy hunting

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ChrisC

Hi Huey,

Both the 200TDi and 300TDi engines are excellent - as other posters have mentioned, they have similar capacities and power/torque outputs, but are quite different in many respects. Many knowledgeable people prefer the 200TDi (I think Land Rover's scandalous handling of the 300TDi cambelt issue tarnished the reputation somewhat).

I would choose a 300TDi other things being equal. It's a more refined engine (in several senses, not just quieter/smoother), and it is still currently in production - has been since 1993 or so. It is very reliable, very economical, and has more than adequate power (though more is always nice).

If it is an early 300TDi, make sure the cam belt modification has been done. Don't run the engine overheated, and use a good synthetic oil changed at normal intervals. It is a very, very good engine for the type of hard work an expedition vehicle does.

Steer clear of the old TDs - they are essentially the old 2.25 diesels with a turbo bolted one.

If you want more power from the TDi, Allisport (and others) do an uprated intercooler for either the 200 or the 300 which ups the power and torque very noticeably (though if you use the extra power - and you will-, the fuel consumption is noticeably worse). The uprated intercooler is a very efficient way of raising the engine output - better than raising turbo boost etc. (It will add extra stress of course - there is no such thing as a free lunch - but there are mitigating benefits of cooler incoming air too).

Later model Defenders had disc brakes at the rear as well as the front. If you are going to go through muddy areas - Congo, etc., then disc are a big plus. Drum brakes wear out FAST in continuous mud - half the vehicles we saw coming out of Zaire (ours included) needed new brake shoes and skimmed drums! It's not a major buying consideration, of course - anyway, you can always swap the rear axle or hub assemblies.

Just a few random thoughts!

Regards,

Michael...

All this advice has been invaluable - I was initially leaning towards a ex MOD N/A diesel - but have now decided to spend the money on a 300 Tdi. Drove one for the first time last weekend - Things sure have moved on since the series II I learnt to drive in!
Thanks again for all advice

Huey,

I did exactly what you are looking at - bought an ex-authority 200TDi and modified it for overlanding. I'm based in Earlsfield, SW18, so if you want to come and get some pointers, I'll happily show you round.

Before this Landy I had a petrol 2.25 Series III that we spent a year in driving through the Middle East and Asia (about 2/3 years ago). I have to say - if you're only using the Landy for the trip, I'd probably go for a good Series vehicle because they are so easy to fix. However I was lucky enough to have an absolute mint car which had hardly been used, I would probably have a different opinion if the car had not been so good. And back in England, it's unbearably slow, uncomfortable and expensive to run - which is why I traded up to the 200TDi.

Let me know if I can provide any further help - it would be worth your while spending an hour looking over a prepped landy before going out to look at one to buy.

Cheers

Ollie

Ollie,

Thanks for the offer - I'm sending you a mail directly.

Huey

The hunt is over!

I am now the proud owner of a '94 110 200 Tdi Hardtop. Solid chassis and bulkhead and runs like a dream - I'm a happy man!