1 or 2 spare tyres??
 

On my trip around Africa in 2005/2006 (60.000km) I carried around one spare wheel and one tyre. From the Netherlands to Cape Town (west) we had zero punctures. On our way back (east) we had 5 punctures. Never really needed the 2nd tyre though. Used it only for rotating purposes to keep even thread on all tyres. During our trip we never met anybody who ever needed the 2nd spare tyre! Now I am changing the set-up of the car and the 2nd tyre is a real menace to store in or on the car!

I would like to get some feedback from the field if your experiences are the same. Maybe this “take 2 spare tyres” dogma is a bit overdone!

Would be grateful to get your opinions!

Cheers,
Noel
exploreafrica.web-log.nl

Same experience(but no punctures) and now same dilema:helpsmilie:No room inside or on roof so will have to fabricate 2nd carrier on rear. I have seen mounts on the side, which is fine in the dunes etc but on overgrown tracks a disaster.
Probably going to ditch the 2nd spare along with the fridge, too many spares and about 1/2 ton of gadgets:confused1:

On my last trip I backed over a huge spike in a field and killed a tyre. I had two spares so was now down to 1 spare.

When returning through Spain from Africa I got a flat tyre on the side of the motorway in a howling gale with lashing rain at 1am. Down to no spares and no humour for a while.

After sleeping for the night in the next motorway services I woke to see the back tyre on the same side as the previous nights flat was also flat - I had driven over a bunch of nails it seems. Stuck in the middle of Spain at a motorway services area on a Sunday. Ho hum...

Take two. It gives you much more piece of mind and ability to travel when one tyre is killed. Rubber is soft and easy to puncture no matter how careful you are you aren't in control of everything you drive over.

You need 4 wheels that go round at all times.

Take 1 mounted and 1 unmounted spare. Any less is asking for trouble. I've "been there, done that".
Better yet, 2 unmounted spares (plus 1 mounted) if you have an oddball size like a Unimog.

Charlie

And if you're the least bit creative you'll stuff the bare carcass full of stuff, being used as storage space.

Repair ?
 

Don't you people take repair equipment? Patches, glue .. tubes ..

Reading Len Beadells books (an Australia surveyor/explorer Australian Explorer Len Beadell ) he fixed his flats daily .. think he only had the one spare.

Take patches, glue and tubes .. case patches too (for tyre case repairs) and you'll be able to fix the flat tyre.. oh and you'll want tyre leavers, bead breakers (unless you have some clever rims) and an air pump. And one spare tyre for a fast change (in cities/motorways).

Take 2
 

2 tyres off rims and knackered on Ekok-Mamfe. Thank the all powerfull for the fact that we had 2 spares. Take 2 + repair equipment. But remember that a buggered side wall is not a simple repair.

If you're planning on any serious off roading or even just off-the-beaten-tracking I would say 2 spares make it all the more comfortable. It's not pleasant babying a car over rocks when you know the next flat is a trouble maker.

No one (OK, no one sensible) heads for the desert here in Egypt with less than 2 spares.

JT

Well let's see. In Baja in April a Koni shock broke in half and ate out my entire sidewall. I found a used 395/85R20 XML (the rest of my tires are XZL) in Tucson and for whatever reason it fell apart with two large sidewall splits 800 miles later; perhaps prior abuse.
Fix these problems with patches and glue?
This sort of thing is why I carry two spares.

Charlie

actual destroyed tyres
 

Thanks for all of the advise. I know about the spares, tubes, repair kits, the compressor, back-up footpump, patches etc. E.g. I am carrying a variaty of patches of which one in 8mm thick and has the size of a keybord! Can mend a truck tyre with that.

But what i am really looking for is how many people actually got into the situation where they needed the second spare because the first was buggered! The reality just does not seems to correlate with the theory. From the above reactions I see 3 cases where the second spare was needed because the other (flat) one was beyond repair. So how many more people did serious 4x4 overlanding and how many actually destroyed a tyre and on top needed the second spare! I am not counting simple flats. I had 5 in 60K km and any one of them I repaired with a plug from the outside. Personlly I met nobody who actually destroyed a tyre beyond repair.

Cheers,

Noel

exploreafrica.web-log.nl

It's your decision at the end of day. You need to decide where you are likely to go, what your driving style is like and most importantly imho how long you are going for. The more weeks you go for, the more likely you are to drive over something nasty.

But it's a good question to ask.

"he fixed his flats daily"

I take two full wheel/tyre combinations as spares. Simply because I can't be arsed trying to fit a 14 ply tyre in the middle of a sand storm, civil war or down pour. I travel by myself so like to avoid having to fix anything out in the wild if possible. Bolt off, bolt on.

But people who are more mechanically minded than me actually enjoy fixing things so each to their own in that regard. At the end of the day you need to be able to have 4 wheels that go round so that you can drive off. I have little ability at playing the butch 4x4 tyre man in the jungle so I travel prepared as much as possible (and with a gold buddha on my dashboard to remind myself that it's all just stuff and sometimes it will go wrong so don't stress too much over it).

On a landy, one on the back door and one on the bonnet works fine - reinforce the bonnet with a large chequer plate first.

1 spare
 

Hi Noel,

Although I ripped a sidewall in Angola, I would vote for one spare, a spare tube and repair kit if you're running reasonably normal tyre sizes.

By now, I've done 60k Km overland traveling, and the only tyre problem I had was the ripped sidewall in Angola (stupid mistake while trying to catch up with a car that thought I was in front of him ... .)

I've stopped taking the second spare. Actually, I stopped taking many things. It appears that a lightly loaded car doesn't break things so easily... .

You'll have to get far away from civilisation to get in a situation that one spare doesn't get you to a place where the the busted tyre can be fixed. I also feel that if you run over something that punctures two tyres at the same time, it might as well puncture three or four, in which case you're as stuck with one spare as with two.

Rob

I have destroyed a tyre on a uk motorway. a big bolt went through the bottom and out the side and twisted around.. So it can happen anywhere. taking an extra spare in the long run does not cost anything. So i would say take the spare wheel and spare tyre, seems less trouble than walking.

I've yet to have a puncture...
 

but I would always travel with two spares, in my case on an 80 series TLC on a rear arm and one on the roof rack. I agree completely with Darrin's comments above - and it's enough hard work just to get one wheel and tyre off and replace it with a spare. They're very heavy...

We have driven from North Yorkshire UK to Melbourne OZ (with a couple of water crossings) altogether 13000miles so far. We carry two spare wheels with the same Michelin XZY tyres on and I have never even taken them off the roof rack. The tyres I got before we set off were second hand, they were all spare wheels off MOD armoured Land rovers, during this trip they have had a hard time but I have never had a puncture (fingers crossed). We are also carrying two spare inner tubes (unused). I am also thinking about ditching the second spare in OZ but of course you know that when I do that I will need it the very next day!

Hope this helps

Jason

2 tyres and wheels
 

I have never had a puncture overlanding, but while working full time in the bush I was caught out a few times by the double puncture palaver (usually when the tyres were getting to the end of their useful life). After that I always carried two wheels in the back of the pick-up. I know that Len Beadell probably got out all his kit while his Billy boiled and mended his trusty cross plies with a bit of formica glue and old balloons and full respect to him and pioneers like him! Personally I like two (hate that feeling of being in the middle of nowhere and down to one 4 tyres) and yes I carry a tubeless repair kit, but to be honest local "vulcanisers" do it so much better (well, less sweating anyway).

Besides my IEF rear bumper looks plain daft unless there are two wheels hanging off the back!!! And I have destroyed tyres beyond repair, but that was largely due to being stupid and running really low pressures for comfort in bouncing bakkies! FWIW bridgestone "duellers" seemed really weak with regard to that...

Gil

I think on a 120 Prado / Land Cruiser, the one on the back door, and one on the roof would be good insurance.
If I was traveling UK and East coast of Af. down to C.T. I would be upset if I had to resort to using the second spare.

How much weight could I carry in the roof of a 120 series?

I would plan to fit 4 / 5 cross roof bars between the standard fitment roof rails./

G.

Its All About Terrain
 

Until four years ago I used to do extensive driving on sand and rock tracks in the Middle East over a period of many years.I found this extremely unforgiving on tyres and never wore a set(or even one)out.They all used to be destroyed by side wall damage from rocks and vegetation.My worse case was North of a place called Shisr in Southern Oman where I destroyed 3 tyres in one day in VERY REMOTE circumstances.Fortunately I always used steel rims and 150km and one roughed up but,not buggered rim later limped into Thumrait exhausted from the stress of it all.

For me,if you are doing any offroading rather than just overlanding,it would be 2 steel rims and spares every time.Chuck away the Gizmos,spare saucepans and evening suit instead!

14 punctures in 40,000 miles, (where did i go wrong?? - especially as most of those miles were on north/central american tarmac) - my vote definitly goes for two spares!

Huey

Prado Roof Load
 

The roof load for a Prado should not exceed 100kgs - including the weight of the roof bars/rack themselves! But personally I really dislike big loads up top so on my roof there is only the roof tent, folding table and chairs. No wheels, jerry cans or other big heavy items.

Gil

Remember you can always sell a tyre/wheel if you take it and then really feel like you don't need it. If it's a good brand you should get good money for it.

,
,
Thanks Gil,

I thought it would be around that sort of weight.
As a matter of interest, what sort of weight do you think some travelers may have loaded the roof up with?

graham

Hard to say off course.

Tubes on tubeless rims?
Old/worn tyres?
Too low tyre pressure?
Too heavy vehicle?
Stickers in the tyre chafing the tube?

where did you go wrong?
 

Cheap tyres ? no go
Split rims ? noooo go
Worn Tyres ? hard to avoid :(

Which was it.

We got our 5 punctures only after our tyres were down to 40%! (1 nail, 4 acacia thorns)

Cheers,
Noel
exploreafrica.web-log.nl

tyre pressure
 

Tony,

When you go from sand to stones did you put air back into the tyres? Thats what i do. I do NOT drive stoney deserts on low pressures, even if it means deflating and inflating several times a day!


Cheers,
Noel
exploreafrica.web-log.nl

Noel

Earlier this year we were crossing Mongolia with two Transit vans with different wheels (bad planning I know!). One van carried two spares and had three punctures within an hour. We couldn't break the bead to change/repair the tyre. We even tried running over the bead with the second van, but this didn't work. Ended up with a five hour trip to a town with repair facilities.

It can and does happen. The second van had four spares and needed three of them to get to repair facilities. Maybe off road tyres are easier to change.

When on the rocky section, as said earlier, get some real good pressure into the tyres.

Even if it means going above the recommended by up to 5 psi.

Well, on my Defender I was carrying a full length roofrack ("home made" and bloody heavy) which in itself must be about 50kgs, rooftent arond the same, second tyre&rim - damn heavy! and of course other odds and sods. Add on a highlift or whatever and it starts to get pretty easy to hit 200kgs on the roof! Of course a lot of folk also have jerry cans up there as well.

frankly the difference between my Defender in touring mode and jungle mode was too much - a bit of a side slope or unnexpected swerve could really ruin your day! On my vehicle now I only put rooftent (on two light weight Thule bars) and a part sheet of plywood (also on two thule bars) to lash down some folding camp chairs and table. Much, much better. I have not mastered the art of travelling lightly, but not on the roof!

I am not really sure how the roof of a Defender is fixed (blue tack maybe :-) but on bumps the whole roof assembly sort of vibrated independent of the rest of the vehicle!!
Gil

Hi Gil,


My initial idea was 2 sets of roof bars, like Thurl's and 2 full width roof boxes, obviously, set one behind the other.
These would be stashed with all the light bulky stuff that one needs to take.

Then I was also thinking along the line of 4 ~ 5 Thurl roof bars, fastened to the built on roof rails.

Then like you suggest, some 6 ~ 7 mm ply wood as a base.
During the day, the goodies could be stashed up there for the trip, then come night, throw them off, and set up a simple 2 man tent on the plywood,?

I just can't decide if I would get fed-up throwing the stuff off the roof platform every night, make the tent, then have the task of lifting the damn stuff back up the following morning!

Bear in mind that you might need to store those 'goodies' in side the vehicle overnight:thumbup1:

I made some roof bars from 100x10 mm alluminium bar bent to the profile of the roof, with 10mm clearance. Bend it with a gas torch so no stresses, clamp to the roof gutter - low profile, long contact, cooling air underneath, minimal weight and less noise/turbulance from wind on the motorway. rooftent bolted to this - simple and easy to live with - 2 bars have been there for 70,000 miles. If you had 2 more in front with a spare wheel mount it would be less than 80kg even with a roof tent. I think lifting boxes up and down will be a right royal pain in the arse.

If you do want to go down the plywood sheet and roofrack then have a look at brownchurch tents, they make one that stores at the front of the rack leaving room for more stuff, but I wouldn't have more than 60/70kg up there especially in dunes:nono:
This photo is with the spare tyre inside too

Hi,
to be honest if it was me I reckon I would very quickly tire of climbing up, removing boxes and rigging a tent on a confined roof area - I am sure you would feel the same after a while and just be pitching on the ground. I know rooftent manufacturers expouse the advantages of being off the ground blah blah, but IMHO the biggest advantage of a roof tent is ease of setting up. With mine (hanibal) it is a quick jump onto roof (tyre, wing, bonnet, roof - easier and faster than any ladder) unzip it and unfold. Takes all of about 30 secs! If you are not going down the rooftop tent route then I would just pitch on the ground.
I think 4 or 5 roof bars is too much and probably two or three would be better (cheaper) but increase the ply thickness to 12mm or more as 6 or 7 is very bendy. Remember the ply should be ideally marine but WBP will also be okay. Interior ply (MR) will dissolve fairly fast in aggressive African conditions.

To be honest the rooftent is fantastic and worth the investment if you think about how much time you spend sleeping and how if you are tired/sick you don't want to spend time fighting pegs and ropes etc. I only wish I had bought a hard shelled one as that makes life even easier in terms of time and hassle!

I know we are getting a bit away from the two tyre discussion - apologies Noel!

Gil

choises
 

Hi Gil,

How did your Mali trip go, what about the air suspension. Any good?
Its interesting to read about other peoples preferences. Myself you will never see in roof tent. It hink they are expesive, heavy, bulky, smelly things that stick out like a sore thumb when you are bush camping. Thats why I have a HZJ75, We sleep inside the car and built a campervan like setup. I can't tell on how many occasion in our africa trip I blessed the choise we made for sleeping inside the car. Those occasions when the neighbours were hanging to the edges of their roof tent while a storm flew over us, the down poores in the tropical areas, the sand storms in the desert and then the times where you want to keep a low profile, litteraly, they are to numerous to count! I cant's see the charm of the roof tent! At all. An additional problem with rooftents in europe is rain! Put it away wet once and your bedroom turns into a smelly fungus factory.

Anyway thats off my own topic

I think that I will stick to the 2 spares, one complete wheel, one tyre only. I guess its a matter of comfort. I am afraid that if i take only one spare, I might refraim from doing stuff that i might have done with 2 spares. Justs narrowing the error margin i guess!

Thanks so far

Cheers,
Noel
exploreafrica.web-log.nl

Even more OT !
 

Hi Noel,
I put a report up for you here: http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...n-report-32044
They worked superbly! I actually just went for a drive on a recently graded forest road closed (so no oncoming traffic) just to relax on a lazy Sunday and at 14psi with the 78 unloaded the car was behaving sooo nicely - not quite a WRX Sti :cool4: but it just felt so planted and stable.

The Mali trip was fantastic - I had been to the Dogon area before but was so focussed on breakdowns that I couldn't really relax (we were on a tight time deadline). This time was totally different, I said at the beginning of the trip a few days delay is not going to matter. We (myself, GF and parents who flew down to Ghana to join us) bush camped almost every night and had an amazing time. We ended up 3 nights in a hotel in Bandiagara as a few of us had pretty dodgy stomach bugs. Saw every terrain imaginable from pure sand dunes to brutal rocky pistes. We followed the escarpment up to Douentza and Hombori where the scenery really is something else! Vehicle was superb in every way. We met quite a cool german couple in a well prepared HZJ75 who gave us the news about what had happened in Mauritania - they were really concerned as they were heading that way. Also saw some french grey nomads in a totally normal 4x2 camper van which just goes to show.... 31st December we "rescued" a basque couple who had flown in to backpack around - they were pretty damn miserable and had been ripped off the whole time and were at the roadside having hired two seats to get to Timbuctu for New Years Eve... 4 hours and 60 kilometers and 7 airlocks later they were going nowhere - the filter in the 60 series they were in looked as old as the car!!! We changed our route and dropped them off at Sevare and they were so pleased it was really nice. We then headed bush and ended up with hot coals under the camp chairs to warm up while drinking whisky under a beautiful starry sky at midnight!

added bonus was seing some monkeys and elephants in Burkina on the way home!

All to soon it was over, but it has left me with an itch... I keep dreaming of asking for a 'sabatical' to drive up to Europe and then maybe off east or sticking the troopy on a boat to Oz... if the sabatical is turned down then maybe just say sod it and leave anyway!!! We see.

But back to tents! I know where you are coming from and for the 'big trip' I would definately rig the troopy so we could also sleep inside to have the best of both worlds (I would make some drawer system and just have the tent mattress on top). But in the meantime I will stick with keeping some back seats! I did see a troopy in Mopti with a second row of seats and two baby seats - very cool, so I immediately pointed out that with a bit of work kids and a troopy could work (not got the kids yet, but do intend to keep the troopy for a while :-)

In the meantime I have contacted AAI about their toyota turbo kit so I will let everyone know how that goes!!! (would have been the business in the dunes)
Cheers,
Gil

good report
 

Hi Gil,

got the report now. Put a reply on

Noel