tubed v's tubless tyres ?
 

the other day i had a puncture which i thought i fixed but with cheap tyre levers i pinched the tube putting the tyre back on. i went to a garage where this machanic fixed it and he had those nice tyre levers that hook on to the rim and prevent any chance of pinching the tube. he used to be john decons (top paris to dakar rider) mechanic and also worked for honda racing core (off roaders) and he said to change my wheels to tubeless. he mentioned several liquids to put inside tubeless tyres to ensure punture free riding. i have a dommei and im not sure if i can change to tubeless wheels. several bike shops in london have said it might be difficult to get the wheels changed.
i dont mind fixing punctures on tubed tyres but maybe it will be worth changing to tubeless. as im going to be in india for 2 odd years does anyone know what tyres are more avaliable in 17 and 21 inch tubed or tubeless.
cheers for any help
tom.

Can you even get tubeless rims for a dualie?

Tubeless tires are great - if you're riding down the nice paved highways at 70 mph. They can be easily plugged (temporarily) when you pick up a nail puncture. Unfortunately they still need to be patched internally.

Tubed tires are far more popular in third world countries. They are cheaper to repair permanently than tubeless. If you get a flat, you can just slap a patch on the tube. If the tube gets multiple punctures it's cheaper to replace a $10 tube than a $100 tire.

In most third world countries there is a thriving business in replacing and repairing tubes - in places like India you will often see small roadside shops that do nothing but patch tubes.

cheers,
after being a pushbike courier and having loads of punctures,( 4 in one day was my best) you have reminded me that its not such a big deal having punctures. carrying a spare inner tube would be good to

It's VERY hard to take off a tubeless tyre without the machine ! also think that with tubeless you can't ride at low pressure - useful in mud or sand , and neither fix a tyre stopper on the rim... I will go for reinforced tube or even fitting the tube INSIDE an old one (even if punched) cutted - in this way you will have a double thickness.

In every case you may mount the XL/LM or XL/RM rims that are good also for tubeless tyres ...

yes i'm definitely going for tubed tyres.
putting in two inner tubes is a great idea.
maybe it would be good to take an old tube and cut it open and stick it with glue or just simply put it on the inside of the tyre.
one tip someone reminded me to stop pinching the inner tube when put the tyre back on is ;
after the tube has been put inside the tyre after patching inflate it slightly so is held by the tyre away from the rim and away from the tyre levers.

There are a host of sites on the web with tips on patching and changing mc tires. Go to http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/Links.htm#TechnicalTips for a listing.

Comments - I carry 3 tire irons, 2 of them the original BMW irons which are excellent, plus one more slightly shorter but with a 90 deg bend on the end and a notch to hook it onto a spoke to act as a 3rd hand - very useful.

This should be all you need. Don't let anyone talk you into the foot long irons - if you need that much length you are DOING IT WRONG! Read the stories to learn the tricks. Adding a little air as mentioned above is much better than fully deflated, but I pull the valve core right out, and then the tube can find it's own shape (round and fat http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb/wink.gif and doesn't resist in any way. Much easier. (I've done literally thousands, and practiced for ISDT events).

Tubeless can indeed be run at pressures low enough to be useful. Mainly because they absolutely do NOT want to break the bead, which is the whole point of their design.

The difficulty in breaking the bead is the major safety aspect for motorcycles. These tyres do not break the bead when you have a sudden flat at speed - keeping the tire on the rim is a huge benefit! BTDT - a nail in the back tire high in the Andes, fully loaded, touring with passenger, 70+mph, 1000 foot drop, no rails nada, sideways as the tire rolled right off the bead and folded under, punching the nail right through the sidewall half an inch from the rim. Super scary. And the final decider for me. Tubed is out for serious loaded touring.

I am now converting my tubed G/S to tubeless for above safety reasons. Note that you can run tubes in a tubeless tire, (my tire of choice for the rear has been a Metzeler or Continental tubeless for the last 15 years) and I will carry tubes just in case I can't use a plug to patch the tire. Safety will be improved even with a tube in, simply because the tire doesn't want to roll of the bead.

Trivia - When tubeless tires first came out, the new design was - and still may be - called a "safety rim".

Getting tubeless tires off can be very hard, yes, but you have to do it less often. A c-clamp can be carried that will break the bead easily. From there it's no different. And a plug can be stuck in in minutes, whereas patching a tube is at least a half hour by the time you unload and pull the wheel etc.

Do NOT run one tube inside another. The cut edge of the outer tube will eventually chafe right through the "good" tube. I have seen incredibly minor damage inside a tire chafe through a tube in a hundred miles. BTDT. In Colombia... ended up patching the tire and tube just to protect the tube. Note that patches have very gently tapered edges to prevent the patch chafing the tire, so the reverse works!

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Grant Johnson

Share the Dream!
at: www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

I've had quite a few punctures, in both tubed and tubeless. The big advantage of tubeless is being able to get going again quickly. Eg. in New Zealand I had one at night, in the rain, uphill on gravel, on the way to a farm. Ten minutes fiddling and I was off again, with semi-permanent plug repair next morning. With tubed I would have had a big problem as the bike was near new and repairing on the spot was out of the question.

On the first day of three weeks in Mexico I had a tubeless flat. I plugged it from the outside only and had no problem for the rest of the trip. I eventually wore the tyre out.

I think BMW was the first to combine tubeless tyres and spoke wheels. It seems like the only downside of tubeless is that it is almost impossible to remove the tyre by the roadside, but I have never seen circumstances where that is necessary.

cheers
Peter

A friend of mine brought me some very strange stuff back from South Africa for repairing tubeless tires. It's basically a tough, sticky, orange, hairy bit of rope. I think it's soaked in vulcanising goo. You just cut a length, stick it in the hole with a screwdriver and cut off the excess. Five minutes and you're off again. My friend spent 3 weeks touring Europe using it last year, and as far as I know he's still got it in. It's also done an R1 and a CRB600 successfully.

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Sean

I have a '94 transalp, which has spoked wheels. The front is a tubed tyre...the back is a tubeless tyre...... Is it poss to have a tubeless tyre on spoked rims...and on my transalp?????? or is just a tube inside a tubeless tyre?? your help please...any help

Many thanks Richard

The only rims I have seen that are made for tubeless tires are the rims for BMW R100GS, R100R, R1100GS, R1100R. The spokes go to a lip on the outside of the rim.
I have heard that there are others made.

And note that the BMW rims are 40 spoke, (like most Euro bikes) while Japanese are 36 spoke, so you can't use a BMW rim on a Japanese bike.

If there are similar rims available, does anyone know where?

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Grant Johnson

Share the Dream!
at: www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

The BMW GS rims are made by Akront Spain.
They are very strong compared to cast rims I have seen. I don't understand if BMW owns the patent why they don't offer them as an option on all models. If Akront owns the patent why don't we see those rims available for more bikes. Someone should want to make some money from them. Also I think the patent time should be running out soon.

[This message has been edited by John Ferris (edited 15 April 2001).]

Having just spent a FUN morning fixing two punctures in the same tube, I have come to the assumption that the tools I have are rubbish. Where can I get good quality tools, such as the patch tool shown on page 55 of AMH....
Cheep tools, mega hassle. Good tools just hassel.

Richard