travelling without panniers?
 

Just wondering: Is everybody travelling with panniers or sidebags nowadays? Thinking bout going without them (less money, less hassle,...) Thinking bout stuffing all my luggage on the back of my xt (giant loop + kriega combo perhaps). Is this doable or just simply nuts?

It's certainly doable, but there's times when you wish soft luggage was more secure, especially when riding solo and you want to visit the toilet... You can use cable locks or PacSafe system to make it more secure.

The other advantage of hard luggage is the added leverage that pannier rails give you when you are lifting the bike (assuming you've been stupid enough to drop it). I found it extremely difficult lifting my Tenere XT660z when I only had soft luggage. But the rails give me additional lifting points.

Not a big deal - less convenient, but I've never traveled with panniers. Though given the choice, I would (and will) take them.

luggage
 

did it many times , make sure that they are waterproof and well straped on bike as many will rub on exhaust or worst, ortlieb are great and super light. I use them on my XR650R for dual sport travel , if you plan to be one up and do a lot off road its a much lighter set up for the bike and will let you ride without hurting the ablity of your bike off road , now the draw back is that in city your stuff is open for grab if you leave the bike alone. ( it also much cheaper to set your bike with soft luggage)

Where are you going ? How long for ?? Do you want to camp ? Do you want to cook ??

Make those decisions first mate ! Then work out the bare essentials for each and try and pack it in a large roll bag. I doubt it will all fit if you want to camp and cook !

Finally someone that gets it. You're right on the money. Took me a while to come to terms with this. Got to completely disagree with Tim and I don't think he's using the correct technique for lifting the bike. Forget about security. It's myth. You'll find you rarely leave sight of your bike. They're to easy to steal on their own let alone luggage. If you like to see the town stay overnight so just a matter of a bit of planning.

To me RTW trips are for exploring the bits between the towns. The towns can be left for backpackers. So if you're into towns, rent a car or go backpacking and sit on steel condoms. Travelling without racks means you're lighter and you can explore more out of the way areas.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p.../Image0096.jpg

I've got to much crap here, but it was only a trial for the bike. That big PVC bag is only half full, but PVC doesn't compress well, so I've had a cordura one made. Forget about waterproof exteriors. Couple good slides down gravel roads and the bags aren't waterproof anymore. So use waterproof bags inside for stuff that can't get wet. Clothes etc.

Minimise tools and parts by planning ahead and finding places on the bike to stash things. Tyre levers can be zip tied to the subframe as can levers. Think about reusable oil filters, foam air filters, etc.

India and se asia I like to strip the bike when I take a room (hard panniers pique the interest of goondahs), chain the bike and next day use the same chain to tie my soft pack.
Towel, blanket,sheets and mosquito net rolled in a light swag strapped for back support.
The real art is taking only what's necessary, I like to blend in, hard panniers IMO scream "I'm a tourist" and attract touts, the very thing a bike frees you from.

Well, I'll be on the road for 6 months, cape to caïro trip. Most of the time I will be camping and I am planning to ride some dirt roads. Good thing is that I am a champ in travelling light. Don't need much. Tent, sleeping mat, sleeping bag, stove and pot, minimum of clothes, and some spare parts. Think it will all fit on the back of my bike. I want the bike as light as possible, even if it means leaving some gadgets at home. The less stuff you have, the less to worry about, no? And I can't imagine that riding a bike that looks and weighs like an icecream truck is really pleasant. Specially if you have to sit and ride on it for half a year. Going to look further into tailbag choice...

It's certainly doable, just a bit unwieldy - unless you're paranoid about just taking the essentials. Back in the dawn of time it's how we used to go over most of Europe before we could afford panniers -

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...ick/1972-1.jpg

Doesn't do much for the handling either (although panniers are not much better).

ahhhhhhhhhh those WERE the days!
wet, damp, stuff falling everywhere but so much fun! (except the wet part)
nice piccy:thumbup1:

Well done. You keep hitting the nail on the head. I think Giant Loop is for you. It's designed by desert riders in the US that developed the loop idea from a roll bag over the seat. Follow guys like Wachs and Hodakaguy on ADVrider.com. They've got it down pat.

I have a Highlander Forces 95 Ruck Sack that can hold most of my gear. I just bungee it to the back of the bike and away you go. If I ever leave the bike I unstrap it and carry the bag on my back. For longer journeys I have a lockable top box.

I love the giant loop idea too...

Can anyone confirm the waterproofing though ?? Someone on here (cant remember who) said theirs leaked !!

Something to do with water gathering around the zips or something..

That's something not really a problem to desert riders :rain:

I think they fixed the leaking issue with a magnetic flap over the zip

I started off with out panniers, all of my stuff was in a bag on the pillion seat and in the top box. The top box was overloaded and the rack broke twice, before i chucked the top box away in istanbul and got a pair of cheap panniers. Panniers made the journey much much much better, the bike handled better as the weight was better distributed. I was carrying a tent and all the gear you expect for a month trip.

Got Ortlieb panniers now, they are perfect- not too big and 100% waterproof

No point worrying about waterproof soft bags. A few good stacks on gravel roads and you'll find with the next decent shower that you haven't got any dry clothes and your sleeping gear is wet. Although the consensus is that with GL gear the sleeping gear goes behind it in it's own bag using the large centre straps.

Either way, I reckon you shouldn't rely on it anyway. There are plenty waterproof roll closure bags available now to waterproof from the inside those things like fabrics that can't get wet. I stuff the tent fly and inner seperately in the stuff sacks they provide. That way if the fly is soaked I can dry it during the day at lunch or something without having to deal with the inner. Stuffing instead of rolling/ folding makes breaking camp quicker as well.

They now come with storm flaps, but the seams aren't waterproof anyway. They do come with a tube seal sealant though if you want to go down that route. How good is that? I should get a commission from these guys.

I rode to Cornwall in the rain, parked up with the zipper facing the rain ........was left with 2 goldfish bowls (VERY waterproof from the inside out) :oops2:

Are yours the "new and improved" ones ??

Just bought the giant loop great basin. Bought it from Twalcom in Italy, the cheapest seller if you live in Europe. Didn't ride with it that much, but looks very solid. Fitting is very easy also. Only one small issue when fitted on my xt600: the bag fits fine, but it doesn't leave me alot space on the saddle to sit. It's enough, but I can't wear a waistpack anymore. Looking forward to give it a thorough test though.

Yeah, that's right. But this means its very close to COG. I can wear a camelbak Rogue packed to the max. Occasionally I can feel it touching the bag, but nothing major. Off course I've got the Coyote. The great basin is way to big for my liking making the COG higher.

If you look on the instructions it should say how to keep it positioned by grinding little slots in the plastic to prevent it sliding forward. This may be your problem.

Hi,

Its simpel. You want less wait so go without panniers. Its doable but will be more expensive. You can find someone who can do repairs for you anywhere if you dont have your own tools and will also find a place to sleep everywhere if you dont carry your own tent etc.

I recently met a guy who was traveling onely with his creditcard and GPS on his BMW F 650GS. Its onely the beginners (like me) who are carrying much to much stuff, because they dont know what they can expect in countrys far away and dont know how long bearings and tires lasts.

Every trip i make i carry less stuff, so one day i will also end up with one Ortlieb back inkluding papers, maps, camera, 12V battery charger, diary, toothbrush, chainlube, moscito net and navigation system.

LG, Tobi
Offroad Motorrad Touren Transafrika, Marokko, Tunesien, Kroatien und mehr

I thought that riding with soft luggage would be cheaper than with panniers. A rack and alu panniers is damn expensive. And fixing them when it's broken once again looks also more expensive...
But as I want to ride ultramegasuper light and compact, I'm facing alot of expences. I bought all my camping material with only one requirement: being ultra light. My tent, sleepingbag and mat weighs under 2 kg in total (Vaude Power Lizard UL, Vaude Sioux 100, thermarest neoair) and packs in a very small bag. Disadvantage is that this stuff is extremely expensive...

Just tried it, and it does fit ! :-)

Hi,

Well if someone is stupid enoth to get those panniers at your local dealer they are probably more expensive then my bike but if you make them your selfe out of what ever steel and aluminum you have its dead cheap and usuarly easy to repair as well.

If you specialy by camping material for this trip it allready starts getting expensive. Extreme light stuff usuarly does not last for years. If you dont realy care about wait you can use whatever you allready have from your last trips etc. You see everything has two sides like allways...

LG, Tobi

Yeah, it really isn't. How many square metres of ali and metres of steel tubing do you think people have lying around? And how many people do you think can use a TIG and MIG welder? It's still not cheaper than sewing a torn soft bag back together. Also, I was lucky to find a TIG welder in the area in South America I was in to weld my DIY pannier back together after the weld failed.

As for lightweight camping gear. It doesn't have to cost a lot more. Just don't go straight to the top brands if you can't justify it. There are heaps of tiny brands around for lightweight tents or sleeping gear if you look around for it. Also, try and define the temp constraints you need to allow for. If you look after your gear it should last for years. I've worn through plenty of Cordura fabric over the years, but this is user error. Not Dupont's fault.

Hi,

Well these days everybody owns a drill and its not hard to get used pices of steel or Alu. With this you can make a rack even without any welding. In your local hardware store or at rubish places you get cheap metal boxes wich you can easyli scrow on. Finished. Of corse a bag is still cheaper but thats not the point.

The main argument against boxes is they are to heavy because with boxes you have more space and take too much stuff which you dont realy need ;)

Travel save, Tobi

Fair call. But I reckon most people aren't that handy in the garage and tend to spend the money instead of making it themselves. I surely did.

For me the argument isn't just the weight. It's also where it is. Designers spend a lot of time and money balancing the bike. All this hard work is immediately wasted by the time all that crap is bolted on. To me this make the bike less safe as well. So it's weight + in-balance + high cost + less safety = bad idea. beer

Hi,

Well i think boxes are more safe. Not onely for the goods inside but they also protect the bike like crash bars and the legs of the one riding it. So the leg of the one riding the bike cant be jammed unterneeth the bike.

For wait resons it is definitly better to carry the stuff beside the bike insted of high up on the sozius seat. I agree it would be better to have more wait in soft cases beside the tank...

LG, Tobi

That just doesn't make any engineering sense to me. I can't think of an example where a soft item (you) is protected for impact by a hard item. I've seen first hand what an impact with a pannier does to someone. Several times. All I can say is that I was relieved we went for cross boots. With narrowed panniers at each crash the leg got caught under the bike. Which if you think about an impact in slow motion considering the forward momentum it makes perfect sense. The first item (your leg) hitting the ground will loose momentum (for lack of a better description) whilst the bike continues. In rough terrain with factory panniers I've had heaps of knocks from the pannier front face. Either way, it was impact with a hard item. With soft luggage the luggage acts as a cushion. Taking the energy of the impact. Not as good for hard gear inside it. But I don't have to much of that anyway.

For the bike it's the same principle. The rack distributes the load but still as a point load to the subframe. This is still the case with soft panniers. With the GL the bike falls more naturally. The impact if much closer to the central mass of the bike. Acts as a cushion still. We've had a pannier completely destroyed beyond repair by a proper crash on a trip. The ipod inside died.

I always use soft luggage on my dual sport. I try to keep as much of the weight down low to keep the centre of gravity as low as possible (it's an antipodean thing to raise the centre of gravity on a motorbike!).
Oddly perhaps, i still use a pannier rack to protect the soft luggage from scraping the rear tire or burning on the exhaust...my 2 cents.

Giant loop on a 125?
 

I am leaning towards doing a 6 month trip to S.A on a gc125.
Having done my research here on the HUB one of the key issues with all trips seems to be security of your luggage and especially if riding solo, being apprehensive about leaving your bike and luggage alone for any period of time. Regardless of soft saddlebags or panniers it still seems to be high on peoples lists of concerns.
The benefits of a small, affordable and extremely reliable bike like the GC 125 are well documented but the thought of using a Giant loop bag that I can just throw over the back (plan to travel very light) and then remove quickly is extremely appealing. And then your bike just looks like another local Moto.

I plan to do quite a bit of solo travel so I dont want to be stressing about security as many seem to.
I'm surprised more people dont take this option given the cost of shipping, Carnets, fuel etc? Or maybe I'm clueless and will learn a bitter lesson.:confused1:

Hi,

If your 125er is able to do more then 50.000 kilometers (25K down and back) then its probably the best bike to use. Fuel consum and carned deposit should be less then with any other bike. Lesse wait is also more importent in africa then horsepower. If you travel some offroad parts there is no chance to get 100 PS like a GS1200 on the ground anyway and if there is tar there are usuarly so many pothols that you cant go fast.

I traveled the westcoast alone and realy enjoyed it but did not leave my bike unetendet in any big city even i had alu boxes. Rather ask locals if they can wath for you like i did in Brazzaville while i had to get the visa for Kamerun etc.

LG, Tobi

Go soft travel light, the rucksack on the back of the Honda contained all I needed for a few weeks in Cambodia, no camping equipment just clothes and a small sleeping bag. Carried no spares for the bike only basic tools.

I had more stuff on the Serow as it was a two month trip. Only weighed about 10 kg (40 Ltr) but included some luxuries like walking boots, mosquito net and cold weather clothing.

I used a waterproof cover when it rained.

Biggest advantage for me of a single bag is you can take it with you when you leave the bike.

I rented a bike in New Zealand which came with full Hard Luggage, I only used one Pannier and the Tankbag, the other two did come in useful for storing my bike clothing if I found a nice place to explore on route. I was always concerned about someone stealing them if I left them unattended, most nights I had the hassle of carrying them into the hotels. If I was to use hard luggage again I would ensure everything fitted into two panniers and nothing more as its easier to unload the bike each night.

Giant Loop Q&A
 

Hello HUBBsters!

Just started a new Giant Loop company thread:
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ant-loop-70221

Please feel free to post your questions, comments, feedback and photos there. We'll do our best to respond quickly, honestly and completely.

Ride while you can,
Harold
owner, co-founder
Giant Loop LLC