metal panniers v/s soft panniers
 

hi everybody, Im still planing my pan-american trip (starts on march 2008).

I don't have much money so I've thinking on a hand made metalic panniers (probably of inox steel) or a couple of denier soft saddlebags of ebay.

you guys have so much experience than me... can you please help me to make the better election? thanks!!!

There are alot more people out there with alot more experience than me - however ....
I'd go for metal rather than fabric saddlebags as they are mure durable and can be locked. If you do metal then obviously the lighter the better. I don't know what inox steel is - but it sounds heavy!
Also, metal boxes should be more waterproof (if properly designed/made) and you can use them as seats, bike props etc.

thanks mermaid. I don't think that the heavy weight of the inox steel panniers. I will try to find a "hospital" kind of inox steel.

I'm worried about the noises product of vibrations. I can't use a "branded" kind of pieces to fix the panniers, like touratech for example, so may be a cheaper solucion will be a problematic noise making machine :funmeterno:

Am I right in thinking that inox steel is the same as stainless steel? If that is the case you might end up with rather heavy panniers. You would probably be better off finding someone who can make up some aluminium panniers for you.

aluminum here in chile is very expensive. yes, Im talking about stainless steel, but I don't know... I don't think that will weight to much, imagine those liver shaped hospital recipients... you can make an a idea...

Pros for soft bags are they are safer if you drop your bike (and get your boot stuck under them eg.) and they are cheaper. And some are really robust & durable.

Cons are they can be slit open easily and they offer less volume.

I prefer alu panniers for the above mentioned reasons. You get them in 1,5 and 2mm strength. And IMO even the 2mm alu is alot lighter than 1mm stainless steel.

Density matters
 

For what it is worth in this discussion, steel is about 2.8 times more dense than various Aluminium alloys.

Therefore, panniers made of 2.8mm thick Al would weigh the same as stainless steel panniers at 1mm thick, all other factors being equal (fixings, size etc).
Put another way, panniers of 1mm stainless would be quite a bit heavier than the 2mm Al panniers and about twice as heavy as the 1.5mm variety.

BTW, there are many different types of stainless steel and some are corroded by chlorine, as found in salt!

Magnesium alloy is the way to go!! (not really, it is easy to damage but oh, so light!).

naysayers
 

hey zaplaje,

if you ride aggressively when you're off-road, you should probably use saddlebags. if your bike isn't already heavy, saddlebags are also better.

i don't have much money, either. i used cheap army surplus bags from new jersey to colombia. they weren't very big or waterproof, but they worked. while i was teaching english in Tunja, Colombia, i had these metal boxes made:

FOTOS: las cajas amarillos de dunkee, hecho en Tunja, Colombia

touratech's aluminum boxes cost more than my bike. these boxes (including the rack) cost less than $300 USD to fabricate. steel boxes are fine, i think, as long as you don't make them too big. and they can be repaired (riveted or welded) almost anywhere, if necessary.

I would not use stainless steel , it is expensive and harder to weld / repair than mild steel .
If you want metal panniers use mild steel if you can't afford aluminium .
You should be able to have them fabricated locally for a reasonable price .
Make some out of cardboard first to your own personal design , try and avoid sharp corners [they can break your leg] , check out the Jesse design it has 45degree corners that make the pannier stronger and will help avoid injury to you .
Don't make them too big .
Use square tubing for the pannier frame ,it's very easy to work with .

Metal panniers will give security but if you are not worried about theft ,them go for soft bags .

I heard a lot in favour of soft bags and would be tempted to try some, esp. regarding the weight (my Tesch (aluminium) boxes rack weigh more than 20 kg alltogether).

The one thing is: I can lock my boxes and leave a lot of my luggage on the bike instead of carrying it around all the time and worrying about safety.

I think I would simply be too lazy to use soft bags (especially since I already got my aluminium boxes, of course)

Lars

one idea....
 

Stainless steel is a bitch to weld indeed! Mild steel painted with red oxide lasts well, has a good home-made, i.e. cheap look to it and easily repaired.

Some great panniers I have seen were large metal jerry cans, cut the top off, weld a lip around the inside of the lower part so the top part fits over, cheap rubber door type seal and some latches and padlocks. Strong, waterproof, dentable without splitting and looked great!!

I will be going for soft bags on my next trip but we will have a 4x4 with us to take valuables/electrics, the required guide in places, and extra fuel..... I know, I know - 4x4 'support' is a cop out etc....but god will it make life easy, and therefore we will be able to fill the gap in the comfort zone with some fiercer riding!

panniers
 

I made these out of 16mm mild steel tube £9 for 6 meters,and two ammo boxes of ebay for £2.50 + postage.
Sorry but the picture file for the ammo boxes is too big but the sizes are 44cm x35cm x20cm ,they look about 30 - 35 liters,used them at the XRV National last weekend they were great.

thanks to all for the tips.
I don't know yet what kind of material I will use... now i'm thinking on plastic.

I will tell you when I'll decide

Done the hard case and now doing the soft. I love the soft 'Andyz bagz' water proof and tough. Can be locked with the use of steel netting covers made or bought at camping stores. The thing about hard cases is your always needing repairs, especially if u do off road stuff, u will drop the bike at some stage, and if u dont damage the hard case, youll do the racking, if not that youll do an ankel. Soft bags like Andys are real tough, im using them on my Africa trip now. For possible repairs i carry a stitching needle set bought at horse/saddle shops. Ive layed my bike down several times with no damage to soft bags. Each time u lay down hard cases it weakens/damages the case, locks, water proofing etc. All the best in what u do. Brian B:D

My opinion is...:)

Hard bags can be dangerous off road.
Hard bags and their supporting system, as mentioned above, can get beat and mashed to hell.
Hard bags provide a false sense of security - again, just my opnion.
Hard Bags are relatively heavy compared to soft bags.
Hard bags are relatively expensive compared to soft bags.
Hard bags are harder to carry/handle than soft bags.
Hard bags can beat your junk into submission if not packed tightly.

Pacsafe
 

Have a look at the Pacsafe range-- tank bag, tail bag, stuff sack all bags have an integrated steel mesh that locks and steel cables to lock to your bike and steel mesh covers for odd shaped articles. These are going to be my next purchase-- soft luggage that you can lock up to your bike.

Cheers
Ian :thumbup1:

Here, here
 

I knew there was a good reason (or 7) why I use soft luggage!!

On the last point, soft luggage automatically "pulls in tight" and holds the contents against bouncing around inside. So, if you are not carrying much then the luggage overall size is smaller.

check out pelican cases. easily as strong as aluminium but much cheaper and much lighter.

Currently in Manauga, Nicaragua and am making my way to Tierra del Fuego. My advice is not to go cheap on panniers. Buy Happy Trails or Jesse bags and you will thank yourself so many times on the trip. I left with the stock bmw plastic side cases and I can not tell you how bad they suck. Trying to close them is such a challenge and you always have to worry about them popping open as you ride. The plastic tabs that hold them on break off and there is not much you can do.

i have had both
 

did europe and aussie with soft bags ,they split ,but i guess just get better ones ,like andys ,did canada to colombia with ali boxes ,happy trails rack fell to bits ,too much off road ,they are farcking dangerous if you do mad shit off road like i like to do, i still have a hole in my leg after 4 month,and i also got pinned under my bike wrenched my knee , but they do offer security for your goodies ,one thing is if you use any sort of hard panniers in my opinion ,wear motocross boots ,end of story .if i didnt i would have no legs left by now i think ,they bite and they bite hard

Yes, but when you pop into a store just a minute to get some food and find your bags slashed and empty you wish you were travelling at least in two...
...that's the smallest size.

But as Dessertstrom said earlier, there are several makers of soft luggage that have stainless steel mesh built into the fabric, and you can buy the same mesh to put on the outside of soft luggage that doesn't have it already. The only things anyone will then get through a hole in the bags is smaller than 2cm!

There are lots of good reasons for hard luggage, I know. I have a bike with Givi panniers (and lost ALL my clothes for a short trip this week when the lid came open!), another with Al Jesse boxes (the best I have ever used or seen in fact) and soft luggage for my other bikes that didn't come with hard luggage. The Jesse boxes are great for packing and unpacking, and for using the lids to work off, but for our big trip, it will be soft luggage. I value my good lady's lower limbs too much. I know she will be coming off more than me.

Regards

Nigel in NZ

Hi Nigel

I am still wrestling with the hard / soft luggage issue. I have bought a DR650 (after much deliberation) but there is very little in the line of luggage available in NZ. I think I have narrowed it down to two options - either Givi cases (E28 and E36) on MW Motech fames (twisted throttle have them but they are quite expensive). This on the whole is quite an expensive option. The alternative is a Givi top box (probably a E36 on the Suzuki rack) with Andy Strapz bags. I like the Andy Strapz bags but I am worried about the security. How do you secure these to the bike so that they do not get stolen when you stop for fuel / lunch? Is there anywhere in NZ where I can get the wire mesh you mention? This is certainly a cheaper option - only need to get the bags and have brackets made to keep the bags off the bike. How do you stop the bags from sliding around?

Peter

Some details and stuff
 

Hi Peter.
Givi cases.... some people have had them and love them, others have has problems on really hard roads/long trips. Personally, I think they are ok PROVIDED you check:
1) They are clipped on properly! They don't always lock on as they should.

2) They are shut properly. Sometimes they seem shut and they aren't. I lost ALL my clothes this week from a side pannier that flipped open while riding through Lewis Pass.

If you use the E36 as a topbox (and I probably would; I have one) then also take a supply of the little rubber bumpers that they sit on as these tend to disappear somehow and they are important to maintain tension on the lock-down clip. On balance, I'd be happy to use one as a topbox but probably not as a sidebox, as they are not robust enough to handle a big hit on the road.

I know it's always a concern about security, and it may just be my lax attitude, but I'm not so concerned. I have never had luggage broken into except at Havana Airport (THREE TIMES out of four trips!!). With a big locking topbox for the vital stuff, for me I can replace pretty much everything in the sidebags on the road. Sure, it would piss me off if someone cut a hole and tea-leafed my gear, but on balance, the total amount of hassle of covering the sidebags for the whole trip is probably more hassle. Tools and spares are in a locking box that doubles as engine protection, under the front of the motor. Keeps the weight low too.

With soft bags, it's pretty easy to fabricate something to keep them off the back wheel. A bar around the back to connect both side frames is very important for strength without lots of weight. I have plans to get a long "tube" of material stitched to the back of each bag, so a steel rod can be slid though to steel eyes each end and a small padlock used to secure to the frame. This will stop them moving around too. PM me if you want more details.

As for the steel mesh, I can't remember where I have seen it, but it was somewhere like Katmandu Outdoor, Bivouac or R&R Sport. Google "Outdoor equipment" and email the likely ones.

Hope this helps!

Kind regards

Nigel in Rangiora

Fastrax Dowco Bags - Soft
 

Check out this link:
http://www.partsmag.com/0702/pdf-070..._040_Dowco.pdf

My wife and I both have a set of these bags. They are awesome. They zip open and expand, have a ton of compartments and have hoods zipped in to the back of each piece to make them water proof.

Just curious to see others oppinions on this luggage. May use these on our rtw trip.

Best :scooter:

Erek & Candice

Hi,

I personally prefer hard boxes, they tend to hold more and as previously mentioned, are a bit more secure (although probably not much).

I once made smallish panniers for my enfield out of 1mm mild steel, which I then had powder coated. They didn't rust at all, were quite strong and not ridiculously heavy. Instead of welding (which I can't do) I pop riveted them together, which forms a very strong join and also helps to stiffen up the box as the joins are double thickness. Surprisingly, getting things caught on the sticking out rivet ends was never a problem.

Matt

Mr. Marx,

With soft bags, it's pretty easy to fabricate something to keep them off the back wheel. A bar around the back to connect both side frames is very important for strength without lots of weight. I have plans to get a long "tube" of material stitched to the back of each bag, so a steel rod can be slid though to steel eyes each end and a small padlock used to secure to the frame. This will stop them moving around too. PM me if you want more details.


Just curious to see if you had further details on the above info.

Best,

Erek

Sorry, didn't quote that correctly.

Erek

Mules
 

Just back from Africa in Feb (UK to CapeTown). Took metal mules and large ones at that on my africa twin. I crashed pretty heavily a number of times and the box always went back on (with some persuading) but they now look very munched and it has been an expensive luxury when cheaper softbags would have been fine. Its a fine line too with the protection of hardcases in a spill because you may find your leg getting fed under the box rather than just sliding clear. I've seen them help and hinder.

If I was doing it again I would take Andy Strapz. I would also take less stuff! I agree with the previous post on 'percieved security' as the locks really aren't that tough if you have a screwdriver.

I went the metal mules as well on the previous trip, but didn't really like the brackets very well. The locking bit couldn't be tightened enough to stop them coming off in even minor spills.

I still prefere hard luggage, but really skinny ones with a 45 degree chamfer on the bottom and the front like Jessy has.

Haven't really gotten under the mules though. We take it pretty easy, as nothing would last if you'd go trail riding with all that crap, but we had the habit to pull the legs up to the chest. Mind you, we didn't have much dirt experience back than, so not sure what instinct would tell us now. Find out I suppose.

2cm cuts are enough to ruin down gear and clothes. Plus they might go at it hard with the knife because of the mesh in an attempt to cut it leaving the fabric all slashed any you ending up with a mesh only.

My ide is to install a couple of pannier on a klr 650. What do you recomend me, my idea is 70-30% pave road and off road, most of the kms will be done on patagonian roads.
Thanks for your time.
Meliq

I use Andy Strapz saddle bags, they're excellent! In fact I've been using them for over a year and they're in excellent condition still. They're a little expensive but I couldn't place a higher recommendation on anything I've ever purchased before.

I can highly recommend these;

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/p...sin-yellow.jpg

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/IMG_0309.jpg

Great Basin Saddlebag from Giant Loop.
Giant Loop™ Moto: Saddlebags for Motorcycles | Welcome

panniers soft vs hard
 

i went down west africa for 7 months last year swear by soft panniers lighter safer no leg breaking Its not uk but ive never never had anything stolen I leave again on sun 14th nov with what i consider the best panniers made in the usa agent at melbourne derbyshire Wolfman panniers BAH People are obsessed by alloy panniers WHy Oh dont say im just lucky spent god part of my working life in developing countries

the exped woolfman's ssaddle bags are great kit _ the top roll-
and a mesh- it works

What about plastic? I have had my eye on Give BT21 plastic panniers for some time. They're small but they lock so anything important can go in there and the rest gets strapped on, if somebody wants to steal my old socks they're welcome to them. Kappa make licensed copies or a different badge on the same thing (depends who you talk to) and you can pic them up in the UK for less than £100. They're tough, lightweight ABS and seem plenty durable enough without being totally solid. I'm still scratching my head what's best for me but my bike is small and I don't want to overload or spend all my money on expensive kit.

I've gone to the dark side of soft luggage. Those skinny panniers worked brilliantly, but the weight got to me the more interested in riding dirt I became.

I'm using Giant Loop Coyote bags now with the sleeping bag and mat strapped behind it through the big straps they provide. Weighs next to nothing and doesn't hurt when it lands on you. Actually makes it better.

Security is a myth. A fully loaded bike covered in muck is a people magnet everywhere. For that reason I know I don't like keeping it parked out of sight. This is easier and less hindrance than it sounds. If you want to look at a town just stay the night and park is securely. Soft luggage (in particular the coyote) is very easily removed and carried to the room. Job done. So I end up enjoying the ride more, can go over more difficult terrain with ease and are easier and safer to use.

Those plastic cases may look good but you can't repair them. Some have had issues with cracks from vibration. They're really more designed for road riding. Pelican cases are a lot stronger and quite popular.

Just wondering did you a do a big trip with the giant loop bags?
What were you on and did you need any rack etc to attach the straps to or keep it off the exhaust?

cheers,

James

Sadly haven't yet, other than around my place for a week away etc. That was on my other bike which is a DRZ. My travel bike is a F650 Dakar which I'm currently rebuilding from the ground up to remove 40kg or rubbish. Next big trip will be in 2014.

No need for a rack with giant loops which is why they are so good. 30+ litres is heaps of room because you can leave the sleeping bag and matt etc outside of it behind the giant loop straps so you don't need a rack for that bag either. Brilliant design really. Most simple ideas are.
Only thing with the coyote is that they fit better with a narrow back seat, but it still works with a wider seat.
It's designed to follow the rider's body profile and this clears most exhaust systems. It sits on the plastic which can bend and touch the exhaust, but a pipe clamp that's included keep this off. They also have a better looking shield for and extra charge.

great, thanks for the reply,

Cheers,
James

more soft bags for the argument
 

I saw these on the WA Border Run last year. They didn't seem to have any problems on both dirt and tar. I'll bet they were cheap. The "Nomad" extra fuel container is of interest. They're available here in Oz.