Hard or soft luggage?
 

I understand that this will probably be a matter of opinion, but what sort of luggage would you recommend for a trip to S.A.? I can see that the hard stuff is slightly more secure but is it really worth the £200 spent on it? What type of luggage is the best and would I need a jerry can for a trip through Argentina and Chile (I have a 28 litre tank), as this may limit the type of rack I can take. Any suggestions? My bike is a 1990 XT600.

Hi Dave,
think about rain, dust, dirt and theft. And hardbags are the better choice. Packing a hard bag is also much easier than a soft bag....
If you want to drive very remote Andesroads there are legs of 600 kms without fuel... But thats exceptional.
Have a great trip,
Peter

PS; forgot about rivercrossings and dropping the bike. Lots of guys make aluminumboxes themselves for very little money....

[This message has been edited by peter theuwissen (edited 27 July 2000).]

A hugely personal choice. We are 16 months and 45,000 kms into our trip. I've used soft bags all the way, and my mate had Touratech boxes for a few months. Our conclusion: hard boxes are overpriced, add unnecessary weight, encourage you to take more and are far more dangerous in an accident. Ortlieb 18 litre bags are waterproof and sturdy. Get a small lockable back box and/or toolbox mounted to bashplate to store valuables. Travel light!

You can buy hard luggage for only ¨200? Wow - please tell me where! :-)

I have rented bikes over seas with hard bags, and tour here at home in North America with soft bags.

I personally would much rather have hard bags. You can lock them, they are more weather proof, can't be (easily) cut open or snooped through.

One fellow mentions that he thinks hard luggage is more dangerous in a crash. I dunno about that: if anything I think in a low speed spill the bags will help absorb the brunt of the impact, thus protecting the bike itself.

------------------
Bruce Clarke
brclarke@islandnet.com
www.islandnet.com/~brclarke

Hi there,
Its getting interesting... The question soft/hard bags is not only personal but also a matter where are you travelling, AND are you going to camp or use hotels most of the time. Camping in the bush in Australia or in Japan: go for soft bags and travel as light as possible. Going to South America and using cheap hotels all the way: use small hardbags or selfmade small (!) aluboxes.
Peter
Sorry, I read your message again, your going to South America, but Argentina and Chile! These countries you dont stay only in hotels unless you are a miljonaire.

[This message has been edited by peter theuwissen (edited 27 July 2000).]

Hard Luggage:
For:
-Solid
-Waterproof
-More secure (as in theft).
-Can be used for other purposes such as
camping etc.
-Inexpensive if you make them or shop around.
-Acts as a buffer in certain accidents.

Against:
-Makes the bike width dangerous in city
traffic and other such situations of
congestion if you forget that your not
riding a sigle cylinder small bike.
-Promotes overpacking.

Last month I was riding two-up in Bangkok
and was side swiped by a cage. The cage
caught the left side of my one-piece crash
bar on an air-cooled BMW. Our legs were
saved by the crash bar and the wide Darr
aluminum panniers. The panniers are the
latest that Darr has to offer and are not
that high quality. We went down, as I feel,
extremely hard with slight damage to the
bike and panniers. The cost of the panniers
was approximately US$250 shipped from Germany
to my residence in the US. I consider that
inexpensive insurance in this case.

Ride safe,
Carl

Peter makes a good observation on that the
area of travel makes a difference on the type
and size of luggage. Riding two-up is also
crucial in the decision of what size luggage
to use.

Ride safe.

I biked around Patagonia a few years ago on a transalp ( 19 litres) and although I had a few close calls I never ran out of Petrol, so I doubt if you need jerry cans. Can't help you with the luggage debate though as i didn't have hard or soft luggage just a rucksack on the pillion seat. But I would always feel safer leaving the bike if i had hard luggage.

Hi Dave,
I couldn't resist having my say! I rode around the world in '97/'98 and I used softees and I never regretted it. But I customised them a bit by fitting an alluminium plate into the back of them, which then had hooks fastened onto those. This allowed me to pull them up hard against racks on each side of the bike (rule No 267 - "vibration is your ENEMY!). They lasted the trip well and I still use them. OK they're not secure but NEVER leave anything of special value (ie that you couldn't afford to lose) on the bike, but I did have a plastic 35ltr top box which was lockable (I mean, you don't want to lose your stove do you, but you WOULD get by without it!) which doubled up nicely as a seat while I was cooking etc. One thing thats really good about soft luggage is that when, sorry, IF you come off the bike they don't break. I've seen people with plastic/fibre glass or alluminium boxes in all sorts of problems after a bump. Can you imagine how hard it is to find someone with a TIG welder in say, Cambodia? Or even a simple rivet gun for that matter! But there are cars all over the world and if there's cars there's guy's with gas welding gear. After soft luggage, mild steel is the best material. Use very thin stuff and it won't even be all that heavy, but it will withstand a right old bashing. And anyway, your not going on a track day are you!
They were Oxford Lifetime Touring panniers and cost £90, so save yourself some money and stay out there a little longer instead!

Good luck

Warren

It seems that all the pros and cons of the hard vs soft debate have been covered. My contribution is that a crucial consideration is the type of roads you expect to ride on. Soft bags are (in my opinion) better suited to dirt, and hard bags to tar.

I don't think it can be argued that soft bags are not water or dust proof. As the Globeriders said, their Ortlieb gear is both.

I've heard that hard bags are more likely to damage the bike's frame in an accident. They are also more rigid, and less able to withstand dirt work.

Also, soft bags are more flexible i.e. if not packed to capacity you can tie them in, or squeeze in an odd shaped article.

However, if you expect to stick to tar, hard bags have the edge - security, etc.

Otherwise, I'd go for softies.

Thanks to everyone who's contributed. I still haven't totally decided but I think I'm going to go half and half: a hard Zega topbox, and the soft Oxford Touring panniers I have under the bed from when I once had an XJ600. That way I can see have a modicum of security but travel as light (and cheap) as possible. I'm a bit worried because I'll be camping and travelling on my own, and I know how quickly someone can get into your bags whilst you're in the supermarket or whatever. However I suppose I'll just have to be vigilant. You can't guard against everything can you? And if you could... what a dull life that would be!

I have a XT600.I have mounted two medium size ammo boxes either side of the saddle & a smaller one in front of the bash plate,valuable stuff locked in these,tank bag & roll tied to bike,these two items I can remove and take with me when I leave the bike for a short time ,it seems to work.Ammo boxes are very cheap,can take a hammering & and are small,also it encourages you to travel light& they are completly water proof.

Dave,

I won´t get involved in the hard/soft discussion, although it´s a great debate topic.

I wil however tell you about my country, Argentina which I have covered from tip to toe on a bike. Forget the jerry can. Don´t carry one more thing which will spend 95% of it´s time empty. Gasoline is readily available and even if you don´t see it, it may still be there (however this is also rare since there are quite a number of gas stations). That means, if you are setting out on a long stretch, ask the locals where the filling possibilities are. Plan ahead. Or ask me. I remember and have marked a few places. If you ever need to carry, just pick up an old oil container from a gas station (4 L), use it and then throw it away at the next gas station you come to.

Summing up: Gas is not really a problem in Argentina and Chile. Don´t carry a jerry can, I have not done so with my 18 litre Transalp and have covered about 20.000 kms just in Argentina/Chile.

Gonzalo
-Argentine ex-pat living among the Vikings in Norway.

Can you pass on the contact info for the Darr boxes? $250 sounds terrific.

Thanks!

gord

Hi All,

One thing to watch with Oxford Panniers is that the version with the plastic buckles can snap very easily. I nearly got wiped out when mine snapped after I went over a deep pothole in the Pyrenese. Unfortunately they fell onto my exhaust and melted all the gear inside, so I travelled very light for the next two weeks. The newer velcrose sport ones are a better bet. Full respect to Oxford who replaced them and paid for my damaged gear>

I travelled with both soft and hard panniers but prefer the security aspects of hard panniers

I too use the Oxford soft panniers with plastic buckles, for a trip to Morocco on an XT600E last Easter. After several days of bouncing around the Atlas mountains the plastic buckles on first one side, then the other, snapped. It wasn't really a problem, as enough of the buckle survived to re-tie the panniers to the bike, but did cause me to backtrack about 5km to find the wayward pannier by the side of the piste!

In the future I'm going to try out the Zega boxes, to see how they compare.

Iain.

'01 XRV750

Soft luggage is my choice and for all of you in England: I used ex army bags ( the large ones) Only cost 15 quid a pair, waterproof, taken many a crash in their stride but need a rack to support them.
Cheap and durable unlike most of the specialist bike accsesories.
Top box is a good idea for those expensive items
andy

Out of an experience just a couple weeks ago:
* Hard panniers take the force of a crash, and yes so wil the backpart of your bike, but your legs will have some extra space without getting stuck under the bike in a crash. The pannier itself is scratched, but I was happy that I could hop on my bike again and ride on.

I have a Honda Transalp with 2 side-panniers from Honda.They look nice, but are probable not ideal for long trips on dirt roads and pistes wihtout any modifications.
I will put extra straps around them to avoid them getting banged off on bumpy roads. Since there is only one key-lock, the straps will also be an extra safety to keep them from opening while driving.
If I had know about those great aluminium boxes I would probably have bought a set of those. That will be for the next one.

The cheapest options for metal panniers that I have seen are:

1) Swiss Army Ammo boxes £20.00 each but you need to make a rack
2) Darr panniers £50.00 each

Have looked at making my own but more hassle than its worth.

I chose touratech panniers as they are built very well and are cheaper than Hepcko(Not sure of spelling) Am having my racks hand built as don't like the way that the stadard rack works.

If anyone wants to see pick of the 2 options shown a above, drop me a line as have piccies of these fitted.

Julio

What the heck, I'll wade into the eternal question and keep this topic going. I use Ortleib soft bags on my KLR. They're fairly cheap (<$200) and totally waterproof: some kind of rubber impregnated fabric. I bent a pot in a crash last year but otherwise have had no problems.

A friend made some cases from army surplus ammo cases (the really big stuff) but they are VERY heavy. They were cheap (but you need a rack to bolt them to) and are nearly indestructable (thanks to Uncle Sam's generosity with our tax dollars) and waterproof.

Kurt

Year 2016 and I still cant decide between soft and hard luggage :)

Lots of major changes to both soft and hard luggage since this ANCIENT thread was began back in 2000! 16 years ago? ... And I only recognize one or two riders who are still around HUBB today.

Where are all these guys/gals today ... most all under 30 posts.

Atilla,
There are at least three or four other threads about Soft Vs. Hard luggage. Do a bit of a search ... I'm sure you'll have enough reading for a month!

For me, the choice depends on a few things:
Type of ride intended (mostly On Road or mostly Off Road)?
Which Bike?
Roads you will mostly ride on? (easy or hard)
Camping or Hotels?
How long on the road?

Best thing you can do is travel with BOTH systems ... then decide which works best for you. I've done both over the years, prefer soft for most of my travels but use HARD luggage on some road rides within USA.

bier

I would say that's very true mollydog, you will need to try both,

Does the helmet locker cupboard bit in the middle of my NC count as hard? In which case I've changed my mind (again).

Andy

Hard or Soft
 

Wait till "Ted" sees this threaddoh, pity if you ride a BMW :(as well lol

My 2 cents worth.
 

I have hard panniers & my wife has soft....to be honest:innocent: I personally think if I were on a shorter trip say 2 mths or less I would lean towards soft, as usually these sort of trips you are on limited time & don't tend to hang around to much, but if you were on world trip or even 6-12mths I would go hard:thumbup1:, as it is just so much easier & safety comes into as well on the longer trips (yes Ted Simon changed to soft 'blah blah blah, but one sparrow does not make a summer)
But at the end of the day it's what you want, soft is obviously cheaper tho.:mchappy:
Most of the hardened long term travellers that I have met all have hard.

Cheers
Paul:scooter:

Hard isn't safer. It's just appearance.

Personally I would go soft for various reasons. Molly is absolutely right though. It's all circumstantial. Plus of soft is less bulk, weight, cost and hassle.

Both my international bike tripsi used bulk because I didn't know any better. There wasn't as much choice in soft as now. More options in hard. Plus it's all you saw them. The shift to soft isn't without reason.

From the moment I bought and handled loaded hard luggage I tried to fix it's short comings. Handing a fully loaded hard case is like handling a fully loaded samsonite suit case without wheels. It sucks. Made my own hard luggage the second time. Still sucked but that's because I changed my riding preference to single trail dirt. Panniers were ok, but top box sucked.

Don't like anything that needs racks due to weight and positioning of the weight, and non rack soft luggage is either too small or it's not positioned right. So I made my own again. But any soft luggage far outweighs in hard in terms of bike handling. Not an issue on >80kph roads. Anything else it does. It still depends on your personal tolerance to the consequences of adding weight though, which is what it all comes down to in the end.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

A few negatives on Hard Boxes/panniers from my own experience and those of riding partners and from EXTENSIVE reading of ride reports the last 20 years.

1. You may "feel" your gear is more secure when leaving your hard panniers, but it's really not hard to break into them. But ... if it makes you feel relaxed ... then that is OK too! To most, they LOOK strong. To a thief, he's already got a screwdriver to pop them open. ... In 30 seconds.

With my soft bags I use "inner bags", so at night, the inner bags come into Hotel, easy and fast, panniers stay on bike.
Of course you can do same with hard boxes. Inner bags are good!

Out on the street you have to use more care leaving soft bags unattended depending where you are. 80% of the time, never a threat of theft. Use caution in Cities of course.

2. Safety again. Broken legs! Most know of the stories of a rider's leg being trapped by metal pannier by fully loaded bike and broken. Or how much it hurts when you're paddling through sand and the pannier WHACKS the back of your leg! OUCH!
Granted, fairly rare thing but it does happen. If you fall with hard Alu boxes ... get your legs CLEAR of the bike if you can!

3. Crashing
No question Soft bags are better if you fall, not only because of the broken leg safety issue mentioned above but because of DAMAGE to a metal pannier.

On one trip one of our riding companions hard metal bags would not shut properly.(he had fallen a couple times) Several Metal Smiths tried to straighten them out without much success. He used a Bungee Cord to secure it. It could never lock.

Heard several similar stories about damaged metal panniers. Pelican Plastic boxes fair better, as do some GIVI plastic cases. Alu boxes make a nice picnic table and are great for placing stickers (the principle reason, IMO, why most like the big boxes better!!! :rofl:) but if you fall you always risk tweaking them out of shape, making them UNUSABLE. :thumbdown:

4. WEIGHT
This is a big one, IMO, especially if riding off road or Two Up. If you never go off road, then, IMO, hard Alu boxes are fine. But once I adapted to soft bags and developed a good "inner bag" system, I've been happy.
When I switched from plastic (very light) E43 Givi boxes to Soft panniers, I was able to knock off 30 lbs. total! That is A LOT of weight on a 650 dual sport bike!
On an overloaded R1200GS, maybe not such a big deal, but on my bike I could really feel the difference, especially OFF road.

5. COST
This ones obvious if you've shopped around, although the prices for recent so called ADVENTURE soft luggage has gone WAY HIGH, IMO.

I paid $100 for my current set of Nelson-Rigg soft panniers. I don't care if they break, tear or wear out. They are expendable. Don't believe for an instant that your $800 panniers won't wear out just the same way ... and hard Alu panniers (around $1200 to $1800) also can get damaged or ruined over time.

I think that the above is an often overlooked point. I've just picked up a lovely light (compared to my Tiger 800) G650X and wouldn't dream of putting hard luggage on it. It's light, thats the point. Two soft bags, 5kg. Two aluminium boxes, 20kg. Simple choice.

On the Tiger I don't go out of my way to avoid weight, or to remove it. It's heavy regardless of what I strap to it!

I'm not sure what your frame of reference is, but if your pannier is 20kg, then maybe you're buying the wrong one?

My panniers, fully loaded with gear, including 2l of water each, tools, cooking etc. is 20kg.

There is may be a 3kg difference between my unloaded pannier and soft luggage.

need-based choice
 

Of course it all depends where one rides, or plans to ride. For me rigid alu boxes for tarmac with or w/o gravel roads, and soft for off-road riding. In Morocco for 2 week last month I used a combination of soft and hard luggage, Kriega overland on the left side for all my clothes and soft stuff, and a recycled Pelican briefcase with a Rotopax 1 gallon water canister and a Kriega US-5 (first-aid kit, hi-viz vest) bolted on it to carry the hardware, tools, spares, camp stove, and chain lube attached outside. This is IMHO the best setup I could come up with given the harsh terrain, ideal as I did drop the bike a few times. I'd destroyed my TT alu boxes big time otherwise. Also very happy I had the tank protection. Here's a picture. Ride on!

Sounds pretty sensible to me. I switched from soft to hard for European touring years back and would never go back but have gone soft again for my African jaunt.

Nice pic too!

Another often overlooked but seriously important factor to any luggage setup is width. I see some seriously wide setups that extends beyond the width of the handlebars. Cats don't have whiskers for nothing. Nature figures it out but it's often ignored.

https://youtu.be/EQgaZ_jc-aM
Minute 33.55 of the vid shows what a wide setup does to an expensive hard pannier.

Second the handling. Riding a bikes is very dynamic and requires frequent rotation along the bike axis. Tight rope walkers use long poles to slow this movement down. It's to do with the moment of inertia. For all the physics lovers this is I=mr2 where m is mass and r is radius from the axis of rotation. This is squared making it twice as important than weight. Another reason why I hate needing steel racks.

Keep it light and keep it tight.


Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

One thing I haven't seen in this thread is soft luggage's vulerability to termites.

http://i.imgur.com/ql4L9tj.jpg

I put my luggage away while waiting for spare parts to get my bike running again in Congo. Some weeks later I thought I'm ready to go again, but nope. Need some stitching done.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-.../i-dxFGmtV.jpg
Hard or Soft ... or BOTH ... there will always be those who have no idea how to travel light. :laugh:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-r...61285513_n.jpg
How W I D E is too wide?? :smartass:

Yea, but Termites can get into your clothing and other vulnerable items that are inside your Hard Alu cases too. Once they get into your clothing bags .... same result.

Easy solution. Keep a few Moth Balls in your cases or bags. I use Dryer strips from GAIN detergent. (used to condition clothing when in dryer)
God knows what horrible chemical this useless product has in them ... but they do keep bugs out, probably Termites too! Also keeps Mosquito's away ... I keep one in each pocket of my riding jacket. The Gain dryer strips actually seem to help! bier

Sound advice mollydog!

I'm planning for another Africa trip (have done a few already) and I'm trying to decide whether I want to get hard or soft side panniers. Actually I know that I prefer to ride with soft ones, because they are less likely to break if the bike drops and generally more flexible, but I'm worried about the fact that it might be easier for them to get stolen.

In total I've done 18 African land border crossing on my last trip, and most of those involved leaving the bike unattended for at least a few minutes to go into some house and get the permits to cross the border. That's exactly the moment when I'd be worried with soft luggage because I think some random guy might decide to take some of them off the bike, with hard boxes that's less likely to happen.

Do you guys consider theft when you decide between hard/soft boxes?

Ive broken into both. A Touratech box supports the cheap nasty lock for you while you place the screwdriver and give a single sharp tap. Five seconds later you are in and look like a biker rummaging through his grungies. Cutting the nylon straps on a cheap Oxford panniers with a Stanleyknife takes minutes throughout which you may as well be wearing a stripey suite and mask.

500 quid boxes generally contain something worth having. Backpackers cheap packs generally contain something not worth touching without rubber gloves and full set of injections.

Andy

Well having done all those borders you'll know that you have to be prepared for some light fingered person to do a bit of informal wealth distribution while you're not looking, which is why everything you really really need is in your tank bag which never gets left anywhere, even for a minute.

My Mosko Backcountry 35s (yeah I'm a fanboy, as the Americans would have it) have a roll down inner and a roll down top, so that's two things that have to be undone before you can go rifling inside (assuming it's not a slash job) . I assumed that no luggage gives much protection to theft, so my priority was crashability which meant I went for soft bags, and I didn't regret it- no theft (8 borders on the last trip IIRC including Tunduma which is as mad as any) and no damage after three offs.

Haha, Tunduma, I've crossed there too in 2013 and it was hilarious. I especially liked the car graveyard with all the cars that somebody failed to bring across the border, some of them must have been there for decades.

I think you guys are right, I'll probably go with some soft ones and if necessary just pay somebody to watch them for a few minutes.

My 2 cents :

I've travelled the last 3 months in Europe and Central Asia with my Honda NC700X equipped with Touratech Zega Pro 2, 31 liters each.

It's perfect in Europe where roads are correct, but on bad roads/tracks next time I will definitely go for soft luggages.
One of my Zega pannier, after 10000 km of bad roads in Ukraine, Russia, Kazakhstan, decided to recover its freedom :oops2:
--> bottom supporting bar of the pannier bended... I "repaired" it in 10min on the side of the road, then made a correct repair back in France (5000 km later...)

I must say that it was much too loaded, I think around 20-25kg including the 5 liters fuel tank fixed to the pannier (plus the weight of the rackpack above).
The limit indicated by Touratech (15kg) must be followed, especially on bad roads. With the other pannier, respecting the 15kg limit, no problem. And the bended part was relative to the Pro 2 quick release system. With the Pro version, I would not have encountered this problem.

That being said, it's very useful to have waterproof, quickly released panniers with lockers.
But honnestly soft panniers 2 to 4 times less expensive will have made the job.

But now that I'm back to France I'm glad to have these panniers very practical for daily use (especially because I've chosen the 31 liters narrow model).

Hello


First I thought Photoshop, but there are pegs underneath.
Where can I get these?
Get some short skis under that and no more problems in the snow.


sushi

So tell me again how you would be expected to go around bends with these!!!!! :rofl:

Perfect soft luggage without rack
 

You can;'t beat this for soft luggage that does not need a rack for any bike 250cc - 1200cc

Reckless 80L System (v2.0) | Mosko Moto

check it out. I just ordered for my NX400 Honda Falcon I ride in South America.

xfiltrate

Hello travellers, my 2 cents "updated" :

I've made 40 000 km during the last 5 months, from France to Kazakhstan then Morocco, with Touratech Zega Pro 2 panniers. Mainly road, from excellent to awful, and I've just made 170km of tough offroad in Morocco.

Here are the main points I will remember about the soft vs hard luggage debate :
- It's better to travel (reasonnably) light. And hard luggage add 'dead weight' even empty.
- If you intend to drive mainly on correct roads, no problem with hard luggage. They are even a plus because they are quicker to pack, and you can let the bike without surveillance without having to worry too much (but most of the time in addition of panniers you have also a soft rackpack above them....). Anyways, during my trip I've never been stolen anything on the bike (of course I avoid letting my stuff packed on it overnight or in wrong places, and when needed I secured the rackpack with a steel mesh PacSafe).
- If you intend to drive on damaged roads, or offroad, go for soft luggage. I haven't tried them (except the rackpack), but I've travelled with another rider equipped with soft luggage, properly packed and strapped to the bike, it was clearly an advantage offroad. You can feel that both the bike and the luggage suffer less. And less wide too, which is important in traffic.
- If you go for hard panniers, my experience with Touratech Zega is good, except concerning the system Pro2, which has failed on one of my panniers (overloaded). I would go for the classic Zega Pro system, more robust. Choose the narrowest panniers (31 liters). And follow the manufacturer's recommandations for max load.

In conclusion, the next time, I will travel lighter, and with high-quality soft luggage (and perhaps a small and solid topcase loaded with light stuff, in order to have a lockable place on the bike).

The advantages / disadvantages of using a rack for holding luggages has been discussed before. But after offroading a lot in Africa, there is one advantage that I have not seen mentioned: using a luggage rack with a metal loop that goes behind the rear tire is really great for deep sand riding.

When you get stuck in the sand, you just need to go behind the bike, grab that metal loop, lift the rear end of the bike to remove the rear wheel from the sand hole. You are good to go in no time. It is so much faster than digging with your hands under the bike. Of course, this works better if you ride a 650cc or less bike and your are in ok shape. The legs are doing the work.

there is better method out there :) simply lay down bike on one side, that will cause rear wheel to go up and hole in sand will bury itself. Stand up the bike back and you're good to go. :scooter:

damn, my givi trekkers are heavy to carry even when empty but it's the best choice when I travel 2-up which also implicates good roads most off the time.

When riding solo and bad roads or off-road dominate soft luggage only, no really other alternative here. Who wants break your bike subframe or destroy your pannier in the middle of nowhere?

BTW, soft luggage is also waterproof theses days.

Or ... have that heavy hard bag trap your leg and break it. Many documented cases of this over last 10 years following ADV Travelers.

Some will defend and say how the hard bag protected their leg, and kept the bike OFF the leg. So that can happen also ... if you're lucky! bier

Yes, this can work .... or not. If your racks are really heavy duty, then should be OK. But some are not. A friends KLR got stuck in Mud. 3 of us tried to get it out, so we took hard bags OFF the bike, grabbed the rear cross bar ... and it broke! We got the bike out and used bailing wire to temp hold the rack.

It was dicey as with overloaded hard bag mounted back onto rack ... we were worried Jerry Rigged rack fix would not hold for long. It did. KLR guy got it welded the next day. All good. So, use caution when lifting bike. Mud is very tough as your slipping and falling on your ass every time you try to move.
Man, I hate mud.

yeah, same debate goes with boxer engine whether it protects your legs or actually can cause injury. Some report on the net about busted knee by that sticking out cylinder heads. I rather leaning towards the latter, the less hard parts during the crash the better :)

You have a good point Mollydog. I was using the Happy trail rack on the DR650. I really liked that rack. It was very solid. But I cannot say the same about the bottle holder from the same company. I broke them riding corrogations.

Tremens, I'll try that next time and see how I like it.

I got a set of Kappa K33Ns with bike-specific racks for about 230 euros... but that was a very friendly dealer with a lot of overstock. :)

I'd agree that at least on asphalt, hardbags can act as crash protection. I scuffed mine up almost immediately, but they saved my paintjob in the process, if not my legs... low-speed hard-surface stuff though.

I would not necessarily agree that hardbags promote overpacking. My first few trips, I had softbags - first just a pair of soft panniers slung over the pillion with a rucksack strapped on top, then a full Motodetail set with a big rollbag for the pillion. Learning not to overpack was a function of experience for me. Granted I've not gone RTW, but I did go on a month-long trip around Europe packing everything into the panniers, with small electronics (phone, camera, powerbank, GoPro) in a quick-remove tankbag. Top box stayed empty for locking my helmet and tankbag at stops. Camping stuff was in a separate rollbag on the pillion - never ended up needing it, stayed in hotels/hostels. So basically all my clothes, laptop, souvenirs, spares, etc. fit into the two 33L panniers. They're not flat boxes and don't promote strapping more stuff to the top of them, which was a matter of discipline on its own!

In terms of security... beyond the de-facto ease of breaking into the panniers, there are two other factors to consider. One is your own mental well-being. Your panniers are probably not going to contain anything massively expensive or irreplaceable anyway. The financial loss from getting a few jeans, shirts and cooking utensils stolen is probably not catastrophic. But with soft luggage, you will spend your time away from the bike worrying about it. Hardbags save your nerve cells moreso than your possessions.

The other factor is the same as the "invisibility cloak" of a bike cover. Everyone Knows(tm) that hardbags are super hard to break into! So nobody will even try. Softbags attract idle hands and cheeky looks, hardbags don't. In my experience.

I would allways go for hard panniers as they protekt your legs and the bike when the bike is falling and they protect your expensive stuff from rain and burglers.
Hary panniers can easily build by your selfe: Build your own panniers made easy

http://adventure-travel-experience.d...ansalp_044.jpg

I think the 200 quid luggage was from before this thread was old enough to vote, get married, join the army, buy a round....

Times have changed.

My current set up is all soft except this

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4335/...5f2f18c856.jpg

Andy

I've been riding for tens of thousands of miles with Ortlieb QRLs and have been very happy with them. That said, the mounting bar should be made of something other than plastic, however, although it slightly bends under load, it has yet to fail and that even included a down in the middle of a creek AND my new laptop inside was still dry once I drug myself out from under the bike and got it unloaded. The mounting system is easy to detach, so theft at least at night is not a problem as you can just snatch them right off your bike and bring them inside or stick them in your tent. And while on the bike, unless you know how to take them off it is not that easy for a casual bystander to take them off.

With all that said, however, I am stoked to see what Lone Rider is coming up with. Ought to see their new soft panniers by early 2018. Super cool system with watertight bags and a system of attaching stuff to the outside (kind of a molle wrapped around the watertight inner bags). I've been chatting back and forth with Fred since they started planning these and I think it will be a superior product once done.

no, they do not protect your legs nor valuables - try crash at some speed and you'll see. Hard panniers will be torn off the bike mounts and all things inside thrown around. The rider can be smashed or squeezed with sharp edges of panniers. You were thinking about just tip over weren't you? LOL

I think you both are RIGHT! I've seen it go both ways. One time the riders legs end up protected by hard bags because rider kept feet on pegs and sort of "rode out" the fall. In this case the Alu box took the HIT, then held the bike UP off the riders leg.

I've also seen the opposite ... where riders leg somehow got UNDER the bag.
Not good.

Also, personally witnessed a minor broken leg at walking speed off road: Deep sand, rider started to go down, tried to jump clear of bike ... but his leg got trapped under Hard box. Not good!

NOTE: this is very similar to how Ted Simon broke his leg in Africa. Took him a long long time to recover.

Our guy was able to still ride the bike. Only a minor Tibia crack, not a real break. We followed him to hospital. (2.5 hours away) A week later, back home, his Surgeon put in a couple pins, all OK in 6 months. He was lucky, but it can be much worse with bad luck.

I know when I had hard boxes on my BMW I constantly smashed the backs of my legs while trying to paddle through sand or dirt in slow riding. Hated that.
Never fell off that R100RS so don't know about trapped legs or ... protection.

Like I say, can go either way! Do you feel lucky! :oops2:

Horses for courses I reckon

My wife and I hire a bike when we travel abroad and we use soft panniers from Andystrapz.

andystrapz.com.au

The pannierz are connected and either sit over the pillion seat or go under it. We use the tank pannierz which are also multi use.

And finally one large bag for the rear that is multi fit.

When we fly the pannierz are our large carry on and the tank pannierz are our small ones. The rear bag goes in cargo.

At the airport I can actually wear the pannierz like a front and rear backpack. Looks dopey but works. Saves $$ on paying for panniers etc when you hire the bike.

here is what usually happens when you crash with hard panniers:

Wow! With all those big rocks there ... both those riders were lucky, IMO. Glad they were both skilled enough to scrub off some speed before going into boulder field when they missed the turn. :thumbup1:

Rocks like that will kill ya. :rain: I've seen guys go off course riding too quick on Baja rides with disastrous results. In Baja, the other thing that can get you are Cactus.

They both did not see the corner coming up. This is typical in Baja riding as well. And in Baja, the locals often set "Traps" in the form of ditches, fence wire and Whoop de Doos of the dangerous variety. Been there, survived a couple. :smartass:

Hello

At 2.50 look at the smashed ten and the almost new panniers.
+1 for aluminium panniers, just pet them with a nice hammer.

Sorry, but I'm amazed how some riders think they could go like "the pros of the Dakar" on a LOADED BIKE WITH LUGGAGE AND SPARE TYRES.

Not to mention, the next hospital is probably a thousand miles away and the ambulance is an old russian van having to drive those thousand miles of dirtroad.

sushi

I guess hard or soft both have benefits depending on what sort of trip you are doing. Personally I prefer soft luggage as they are easily fitted and quick to take off and throw over shoulder if required. They are also expandable so you don't always have a fat arse rear :rolleyes2:

On a trip to Slovenia I did some of the mountain passes then dropped the bike in a flat car park! The soft pannier took the impact and prevented any damage to the bike.

I also use a roll top dry bag for all the camping and sleeping stuff. Works for me anyway.

The one good shot of the repaired pannier indicates someone had skill wielding a hammer. Not always the case. I've witnessed ... 3 times IIRC, guys with crashed Alu panniers that were NOT repairable.

They were able to re-mount them to the bike ... with Bungee straps and rope ... but never closed properly, basically ruined ... and none were ever waterproof again. :thumbdown:

It is amazing! ... Amazingly Stupid! :rofl: On Baja group rides things can get out of hand ... especially early days. Some guys think they're running the Baja 1000.

No Doctors or Hospitals 100 to 200 miles ... not 1000 like Mongolia but if injured, you may exceed your "Golden Hour" of survival. Ambulance would be farmer's clapped out Pick up truck with broken suspension.

After one multi bike crash, went searching for help while one of the wounded was loaded into an old truck and headed out. We found help at an Estancia, got hold of hospital in Ensenada who dispatched a ambulance to our location ... but we had to transport the injured guy about 20 miles to the Estancia.

We took off to intercept the truck and direct to Estancia. As we closed on them,
we heard something weird. We stopped ... the sound we heard were the SCREAMS coming from the guy with a compound fracture riding in metal truck bed with only a blanket for padding. Every bump ... was like torture. His piercing screams could be heard quarter mile away ... OVER engines running on two bikes!!

The other wounded guy was able to ride (barely). Rode to highway, then rode to Ensenada to hospital. His buddy rode with him as he had hit is head too ... so no one was sure what could be wrong besides a very sore knee and possible
broken ribs.

These guys were going at 70 mph race pace when they hit an unexpected wash out, both went flying. I was hanging way back, but saw the bodies flying in the air and the dust. This same ride had two or three other crashes, one concussed guy rode home in a truck, his bike left behind for later pick up.

This group are very experienced street/dirt riders/racers, very aggressive. The ones who know Mexico slow down, the others may learn the hard way.

When far from home and help ... ride a moderate, measured pace on your overloaded Pig of a travel bike! No Hero Awards for finishing first ... and no winners ... and old racers' motto still applies: To finish first, first you must finish!

is it really the case??? wow, so local are "funny" guys and
I thought all people love riders...
I guess there must be a lot accidents then.

Yes, Booby traps in Baja are real. They've nearly killed a few riders/drivers. But now since everyone does complete PRE-RUN of the course ... most hazards are known and racers slow down for possible hazards.

Guys on the bikes are Most vulnerable ... they don't have navigators like some of the Truck/Buggy guys do.

The racers know that when they see a crowd of Mexicans standing around, it could mean a Booby trap is nearby. SLOW DOWN! You can Google old Baja races to see some spectacular crashes on film from traps set by locals.

Not all Mexicans are happy to see Baja racers. Yes, big races bring in a lot of money to local economy, but not everyone benefits ... and there is A LOT of racism from North Americans ... which I have seen ... in person... for years.

The majority LOVE the races ... but not everyone.

Many of the truck and buggy racers are VERY wealthy individuals. (not an inexpensive sport!) I mean millionaires. Bike racers are more "average" income, which means they still make 20 times what an average Mexican makes.

Some treat local Mexicans like their Bus Boy or Gardener. Some Gringos feel entitled; "Hey, we're paying here, we "own" this place."

Bad attitude but quite prevalent. Racism is endemic in USA.

If you ride Baja anytime before the race, like within a month, you really have to be careful of the Pre-runners. I've nearly been killed TWICE by speeding buggies coming over blind rises or corners. When I enter area with blind rises or corners, I stop my bike ... and Listen ... you can hear them coming. GET OUT OF THE WAY!

They will be running nearly flat out ... and they think they are the only ones in Mexico! In one case I heard the guy coming and had to literally ride into the Desert, other guy was FLYING over a rise (air borne) Moved to edge of road and when buggy landed the driver instantly got it under control, moved over a bit, no problem. Very quick reactions ... thank God.

They just don't expect you out there. Also ... to note! Many run at NIGHT! This is a lot safer for travelers cause you can see lights miles away. No danger.
Day Time? Be careful. Since I go in November I often encounter the Pre Runners.