hard luggage necessary for solo rider?
 

Hi,
In october I will start my transafrica trip from capetown to cairo on a yamaha xt. I'm struggling with the choice of luggage I will use. i know all the advantages and disadvantages of hard and soft luggage, but still can't make up my mind. Since I will be travelling on my own, I think I almost have to go for panniers for security reasons. There won't be anybody to guard my bike when I hop in a store, search for an embassy, buy ferry tickets etc. I will also do alot of (wild) camping, so my bike will be standing unprotected for a considerable time.
What do you guys think? Go hard or go soft?

I use soft luggage, and it will do. BUT.. I did not see all of the things I wanted to see for the very reason you mention, that of not being able to leave the bike loaded and secure. If you can find it I would go the solid luggage route. If there are any nasty corner near you heels, maybe attach a bit of bike tyre to round off any points that might make human impact if you topple or otherwise come off.

Hard
 

Hi, i would agree and opt for hardcases for the security. Andy

thanks for the advice. I'm a bit scared of the alu panniers too, don't want to break a leg or something. Most of the time i will ride tarmac, only a little bit of dirt roads. If I go for the alu panniers I will definetly also buy some full mx-boots for protection. The bike tyre idea sounds nice too.
Still not 100% sure though...

What is it that you are hoping to find by asking here? You say you know all the advantages and disadvantages, and it's for sure the subject has been done to death repeatedly, but you are still uncertain. What would make you certain?

Or maybe you'll never be "100% sure," in which case the next best thing is to just decide and go with it. Most of us are not "100% sure" about anything--which brand of bike, what size engine, which clothing or boots or helmet, what time of year......you name it, there are always arguments for each side of a discussion. Waiting for 100% is a recipe for paralysis.

I chose hard cases; you already know the reasons. Someone else chose soft cases; you know their reasons, too. I wear MX boots; the next person doesn't. What's missing?

Mark

Heavy aluminium luggage on an XT sucks !! I used softbags from Uk-capetown and not once was security as issue...

Although for other reasons, have you considered plastic luggage ??? They get forgotten in the whole hard vs soft debate.

They're much lighter, flex rather than break and offer the same amount of security as aluminium...

Maybe pelican cases too !!

Just looking for some tips and points of attention. Don't wet your pants. Sorry bout using the forum for what it's made for...

Didn't think about plastic luggage actualy. Thought that it would break easily... Pelican cases are an option too...

I have used soft luggage in over 30 African countries and never had a security problem.

The most likely cause of theft problems will be in capital cities, where most likely, you will have left your luggage at your accomodation when running errands, thus reducing the risk of theft from the bike.

That is not to say theft can't happen in Africa, but I wouldn't overestimate the risk on a bike. If you are concerned, go with soft luggage and mesh to cover it.

Sorry if you took it that way, which wasn't my intent. Safe journeys!

It takes very little cunning/skill/tools to break into hard boxes. So choosing them for security reasons is pointless, IMHO.

cheers
Chris

For security the hard boxes will keep out the the honest people. The reason I have them. (and well I got the on an old bike for free)
I have not seen a light box made that can keep someone out that wants in. most will pop open with little more than the use of a hammer. So there is some limitations right there. Add to that you can not gust pull them off the bike like soft bags.

In the end if some one cuts open your soft bag you will think you need a hard box if you brake your leg or foot on your hard box you will think you need a soft bag.
You may want to look at packsafe Pacsafe Anti-Theft Bags & Travel Security Products
not side a side bag option but there may be something you can work around.

Thanks guys!
Whatever I'll end up with, there is another question i have. If I plan to travel through Africa for about 4 to 5 months, how much luggage space should i have? An idea of total volume in liter perhaps? I plan to camp, so I will be taking a tent, sleeping bag, sleeping mat and some camping equipment. Also some spare parts, clothes, ... all the usual things. Not planning to take hitech stuff like laptops.

What ever you take much of it you will never need. But you will use all the room you have. Just the way it is.

Some thin many people over look is a tarp and rope cheap small and many uses.

The parts you take will depend on the bike. Last year I wish I had rear brake pads so I will take them next trip. My bike dose not have problems with spark plugs so I skip them I take chain wax but not a spare chain. I go have a few master links and a little bit chain (or I did gave that to some who had more need than me) I have plugs and patches for the tiers.

For a tent I use a 2 man tent now, I have used a 1 man tent but like the room of a 2 man, on long trips in the rain the space is nice. I use a air filled sleeping mat that now has a whole in it I need to fix that. A sleeping bag that is rated for lower temps than I will ride in for long.
Clothes I have 2 sets 1 for riding the other to wash 3 sets of undergarments and 3 pair of socks 1 pair water proof sock, I hate wet feet. All some sort of synthetic, drys fast and packs small. HU sells them go to meeting and buy one there and know all that need and get some good riding kit. It will save you more than spend on it. A liner for the riding jacket and riding pants with liner. 2 sets of gloves one is for cooler days.
Tool kit? Well all that you know how to use. Try taking apart the bike and find out what you need. You will need to remove the tier from the rim and the rim from the bike. My kit did not have all the stuff I need to do that it now dose. Replace the air filter, pull the gas take, replace spark plugs, do a oil and filter change clean and replace gas filters. All of this will need to be done before you go best if you can do if need be. Some things you will want is duct tape, zip ties, a good bit of wire some epoxy filler (comes in a tube and you kneed it together) there are lots of them some like JB weld I have both. Spare bolts and nuts tier pump and patch kit.

If you need Ideas there is some places to look at all the junk you may want to drag around with you.
Gear, Parts & Accessories for Adventure Motorcycle Touring - Touratech-USA
Over 5000 Items In Stock and Ready for Immediate Shipment - Whitehorse Gear
Aerostich/RiderWearHouse Motorcycle Jackets, Suits, Clothing, & Gear :: Aerostich/RiderWearHouse Motorcycle Jackets, Suits, Clothing, & Gear
Camping Gear & Outdoor Gear - Outerwear & Outdoor Clothing from Campmor.com
http://www.rei.com/?s_kwcid=TC|13030|REI||S|e|6846201373&cm_mmc=ps_go ogle_reibrand-_-REI_Brand-_-REI-_-rei&gclid=CJTV-ISkoqcCFUpJ2godtHYtCg
and many more.

Odd things I take
A book on how to fix my bike.
Tripod and camera looking to get laptop.
A bit of food a few days of water never know when you need to stop or just want to.
Some thing to read.
Electrical tester.
Some time I will get a chair to sit in.

Now just dont ask what stove to get people here get funny about it. Any thing that works for you will do.

I use up all my boxes and there 33 and 45L. and a around 30L. in the top box. When I had a smaller soft bags on my bike it was half that I use the area I have.

I had plastic givi boxes on all of my Africa Twins. I dropped the bikes countless times and they never once broke, cracked or deformed. They can take a hell of abuse.

Compared to my uber expensive metal mules which were out of shape after a 2mph sand topple...

I would think its actually harder to break into plastic boxes than aluminium. The plastic flexes where you would use a tool. In the dealership I worked in, we had to break into a set because the owner lost their keys. It wasn't as easy as we expected.

The only thing is, they look look at "cool" and "overland" as the other options...

My Cagiva Elefant came with plastic cases (H&B Gobi enduro). They were massively over-filled with ducati spares but stayed intact despite many many trips into the sand/mud/tarmac. the racks on the other hand disentegrated completely.

Also they don't look like they cost an arm and a leg which has got to be an advantage.

Although we had hard boxes for our UK to Cape Town trip we also had other stuff strapped onto the rack but kept all the valuables/essentials in the tank bag that always came with us whenever we left the bike even for 5 minutes.

Before we left I rigged up a simple alarm comprising a coil of wire with a croc clip on one end (stored under the seat). This was connected to a relay and a small activation switch under the tank. We used to wrap the wire all around the luggage then earth the croc clip. If the circuit was broken it sets the horn off. Most locals who studied it were convinced they would get an electric shock if they touched the bike. We used this alarm all the time even leaving the bike fully loaded outside a hotel in central Cairo. We also left the bike for several days in Arusha and Dar es Salaam with just this alarm and the steering lock on. We also left it parked in downtown Jerusalem all wired up and when we came back we found the street was closed and the bomb squad were considering blowing it up!

Times move on and maybe the Africans wouldn't be deterred by such a simple device these days but it worked well for us.

http://images1.memegenerator.net/Ima...=Facepalm-Papa

Look at it this way, are you going for a ride or a back packing trip?? Security is a myth. The most important items are your travel documents, cash and your bike, not you jocks. What else it so important it's worth risking getting stuck under it in the middle of nowhere?

You don't take a samsonite hard case when you travel because of security issues? Those hard cased are super simple to get into. Weigh a ton and cost a large part of you trip expenses. Plus they ruin an awesome dirt ride. Get a Giant Loop Coyote, strap it on and plan to stay overnight at an hotel wherever you want to have a looky around. Cities in Africa are nothing to look at anyway for an afternoon, and it's a bad idea to leave your bike parked for hours out of sight away from a hotel. Other than that you're probably always within eyesight cause it sucks getting in and out of your riding gear all the time.

Enjoy the ride. bier

thnaks for the valuable info folks, helps alot! Impulsive as I am, I just came up with the idea of not taking any panniers/sidebags at all. Just sticking all my stuff on the back of my xt. Maybe a giantloop with some kind of tailbag or case... Has anybody done this?

http://www.touringted.com/_gallery_/...serialNumber=2I'd love to ride like this.....

The giant loops look a pain to pack/unpack for longer trips and i'm sure people say they leak quite a bit ???

Just one 40L Ortlieb rack pack on the back would be great. But, it's not big enough if you want to take camping gear. A large tankbag would be good to spread the weight too.

Maybe two roll bags stacked up ??


What's worth considering about the panniers is that they keep the weight lower which keep handling as it should be.

I don't know what all the debate and stress is about anyway. Just buy some cheap ones like I did.. £20 quid !!




Pack LIGHT LIGHT LIGHT LIGHT... Take half what you think you'l need then send the rest home :)

Agree there. Light is key. Packing more crap at home might make you feel like you're up for a good comfortable time, but most of the time is spent on the bike with the gear just coming along for the ride. And then you have to pack and unpack all that crap multiple times for days on end. And it gets pretty old pretty quick. If breaking down camp take more than 20min I get the shits with it pretty quick. It's usually when the sun is baking down on you. And you haven't even put on all the riding gear yet. 1 of a few types of clothes, 2 tshirts few pieces of underwear and just wash frequently. I usually bring enough clothes to allow for me to have something to wear while the main set is drying from a wash. Keep camping gear to the absolute min and workout how to minimise the tools and parts and you're on to a winner.

Do this and you should be able to keep the lot to only needing 35-40l for the main stuff. Sleeping bag and mat can go in a rolls bag on the back of the seat. Wet weather gear can got in a kriega style bag or one of those headlight wolfman bags. Done.

I like the giantloops because they come off easy. Throw it over your shoulder and walk into the hotel room for some laundry in the shower. No racks keeps the weight down and the heavy parts are behind you legs nice a forward. More forward than soft panniers. They are a little more fiddly to get into, but you shouldn't need to get into your gear that frequent or at all. That's what a small tank bag is for (camera etc). Or camelbak. Basically there are enough systems out there than don't need any racks what so ever. This keeps bike prep to a minimum.

Never mind that PVC bag over the seat. It's only half fully, but bulky. Waterproof fabrics and electrics from the inside. Don't rely on any exterior bags for this.
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p.../Image0096.jpg

Nice setup! Exactly what I was thinking about! Travelling ultra light is a main issue for me. I travelled before and I know that weight can make or brake my trip. Although the giant loop is pretty expensive, it will still be cheaper than buying a rack and panniers. A kriega bag is pricy too, but I am a big fan, they're really indestructable.

Not once you see them in the flesh. You can actually see where the money goes. It's a pretty elaborate construction. Not a simple pattern to sew. Excellent service and product backing. These guys are the real deal that really use the product and pretty much try to destroy it. They do cool ride reports on ADVrider. Not like Touratech. Often I wonder what these guys are thinking with some of their stuff.

TMotten.......I also have the Giantloop and have recently purchased an Ortlieb duffelbag to carry the tent, matress, possibly food and other bits and pieces.

How do you go about attaching extra fuel and water ? - low down or just strap it to the seat ?

Also, your bike appears extremely lightly packed - is that all you would take on a 5 month trip ?

Cheers

Yep, that's the idea. I'm toying with the idea of developing a fuel 'tube' with the bloke from Liquid Containment. Something I can throw over the seat. Otherwise I've got a liquid containment bladder anyway. Water in the picture is a 6l MSR bladder partly filled in one of the bottoms. I carry a 3l Camelbag. I'm planning for a tank bag for the electronic and documents etc. And maybe replace the kriega with a wolfman bag infront of the headlight. Just to move some weight to the front. Dunno yet. Still developing, but it's taking a back step due to my bike build. But I know I should be able to make this work. Be a bit harder for colder climates but I reckon with a bit of planning it's still doable. I'm still taking a softshell jacket in this setup.

zjwannie,
like you I've been deliberating about what luggage to go for, on our trip to West Africa and back later this year.

My bike came with 35l Zega panniers, which were fine but I always had the tendancy to fill them whether I needed to or not.

Dave Lomax's talk at Ripley last year really got me thinking (about tavelling light). Since then I have looked at everyones opinions on forums, and trawled the internet looking at what's out there including Kriega, Giant Loop etc.

I have certainly decided to go with soft luggage....as far as security goes if someone is determined to steal your kit they will regardless. So the Zega panniers have been sold (I kept the racks mind).

I've decided for me, the Wolfman Expedition range suits my needs but that is just personal preference. But with their new Rolie bags out this year, they certainly seem to have a comprehensive range of soft luggage to suit just about everyone.

I hope this helps

tank bags
 

Hi

custom sewed tank side bags, made out of truck tarp ... reliable as hell and still in use with the new bike:D


http://www.miles-to-ride.com/user_fi...PG_800x600.jpg

tank bags
 

the new bike .... fully loaded in Tunisia, even a chair :D

http://www.miles-to-ride.com/user_fi...PG_800x600.jpg

backpacks
 

Or just take 2 backpacks .... german army :D

http://www.miles-to-ride.com/user_fi...PG_800x600.jpg

http://www.miles-to-ride.com/user_fi...PG_800x600.jpg

Nice work. Interesting rack as well. Looks about as lightweight as you can get. Easy to bend back as well.

luggage set up
 

@tmotten ... thanks

Yeah, this setup was cheap and worked for 70000km in North- and Southamerica.

The rack was made from scrap aluminium, just bend and some bolts and screws. I also used an exhaust pipe from an oven as a heat shield to protect the saddle bags.

Altogether, less than Euro 30.- and about 5kg (incl. saddlebags) :D

The bike went down twice, once heavy rain and the centerstand was gone :rain:... and once the wind in Patagonia :stormy: .... nothing happened

The tank bags were sewed by a friend, she is a pro and I gave her Euro 100.- (incl. some other minor stuff to fix) for her excellent work:thumbup1:

Next trip we use alu panniers, we`ll see how that works in Africa?c?

Greets Thomas

With most boxes the security is almost entirely psychological. You could get into mine in 20 seconds with a big screwdriver or similar jemmy. My locks are v. similar to those found on Touratech cases, by the way.

I'd go with soft bags for most of your stuff and a really tough top box for valuables (like a peli case).

:)

Why????? I'd think Africa is exactly the place where you'd want soft luggage. The more off road you expect the lighter you want it to be. Sound like you found your winning formula, so why change it?

weight
 

Yes, I know .... the setup would make sense for Africa,

but we reduced the bike weight

Honda XRV 650 -> 220kg
Kawa KLR 650 -> 175 kg

KTM -> 150 kg :thumbup1::thumbup1::thumbup1::thumbup1::thumbup1: :thumbup1:

we are not riding technical stuff and even in Tunisia with soft sand the KTM handles much easier than the AfricaTwin.

btw..... I need some space for all the stickers :D:innocent:doh:stupid::Beach:

We will give it a try, a change is always possible bier

Greets Thomas

Aren't you going to Namibia? Off road heaven. It's also the cost. I'm surprised that you don't mind the handling of a loaded 150kg bike. The DRZ in the picture is 160 wet and I don't like the handling at all with that weight. And it would be worse with hard luggage and racks. Just doesn't steer because the balance is all off. The lighter the bike the less you can bring before it ruins the handling. This is why my target weight of my Dakar is 180kg wet. The added weight will change the bike less.

@tmotten

Yes, Namibia and the whole east coast ....:scooter:

After riding the Africa Twin with a lot stuff (I guess about wet and full loaded 275kg) on gravel in Southamerica, the new KTM 690 is like a mountain bike :thumbup1:

In 2003 I rode a Tenere (3 AJ) with about 53 liter gas and 25 liter water plus all the stuff for surviving through Algeria:stupid: !

I guess about 240kg - 250 kg .....

Everything had to last for 4 days (incl. 20% safety amount) and the first day the bike was almost unridable in the dunes :(. After a couple of days and 1000km + I got used to it (somehow)

The only really nasty thing I don`t like is mud, which is slippery like soap :thumbdown:

Greets Thomas

Out of Curiosity
 

When was the last time anyone had someone break into his/her soft bags while touring Africa?

If its such a big security issue to take soft bags, there must be examples of having stuff stolen from them all over this forum by HUBBers who have crossed Africa ...

I am unfamiliar with any such stories so would love to be enlightened. If we have real examples including the circumstances of the theft we can start to get some idea of the risk of soft bags in terms of theft. But I strongly suspect the risk is imagined ... with little or no real evidence supporting the view.

Security for soft bags:

To increase security (or at least perceived security) for your soft bags, I have used pacsafe wrapsafe locks:

Pacsafe Anti-Theft Bags & Travel Security Products

Just a cable that goes around the bag to stop it being opened and stop it being taken off the bike

That's the good thing about the GL. No one knows how to take it off. Just saved my self 30 bucks right there. I've had my map case stolen off my bars once in Georgia. Maybe I should make an ali box for it. beer

Also interested about it. I don't really leave my bike out of sight with hard or soft luggage. Interested to know about knife cuts into the bags.

This is the last type of surface you'd want hard luggage one. We suffered that in Mongolia on our first trip. Bloody dangerous. Africa has plenty of this if you're unlucky.

Exactly !!!!

Good point Walter

Thomas

I can only speak for myself. I leave my (hard) panniers on the bike a lot: out of sight, often overnight, sometimes even overnight on the street. I'd be reluctant to do that with soft bags of any sort, no matter how they were locked, cabled, or encased in mesh.

The original question related to traveling solo. Traveling with a group, or even as one half of a couple, there's always someone to watch the bike. Solo, I'm out of sight of the bike dozens of times per day--to pee, to conduct business, to eat in a restaurant or check my email, to ask for prices at hotels, to take photos....whatever.

I do occasionally hear about people having bags slashed--mostly in Latin America. I've read about this on HU and ADVrider. But to me the point is that having hard cases allows me a degree of freedom I wouldn't have with soft bags. When I've traveled with soft baggage I don't leave it on the bike and I don't turn my back on it. Some of you have traveled with soft baggage: you don't let it out of sight. I think that's why you never hear about baggage getting slashed. But maybe I'm wrong about this part.

That whole issue about which is more dangerous seems like a wash to me, too. My cases have kept the bike off me in slow-speed falls (the only kind I've ever had) quite a few times. One (1) time a case clipped my ankle. I wear motocross boots, and I hardly noticed.

No doubt: mileage varies, and there are no black and white answers. I like the way I do it because it sure seems to work for me.

enjoy,

Mark

I've used alu-boxes through Africa twice and except for very short trips I will still use them.

Some people might argue that cost might be an issue, but mine has lasted for 150kkm so I don't see that as a valid argument. But there are a lot of badly built systems out there and some people who have bad experiences with a certain brand transfer their "knowledge" to all types of hard-boxes.

I've parked the bike everywhere because I like to walk around in the cities, no problems so far.

One of the best advantages of soft bags is that you don't have to leave them on the bike. Throw them over your shoulder and straight into the tent or hotel room.

Although, I NEVER keep valuables in my soft bags as border crossings, going for a pee at a petrol station etc is still a risk. Although, I never have or ever heard of anyone's soft bags getting ransacked.

Bags slashed ???? I think I read something on ADV rider about that too. Mostly Americans in Mexican border towns though right ??? Risky whatever your luggage system.

And yeah... Anyone who doesn't overland in tough MX boots is asking for trouble. Not just from panniers...

Good points, markharf. I agree, not that my opinion will change anybody else's mind.

Anyway, I don't care. I use both, like both and see advantages/disadvantages either way.

.............shu

It really depends how you fill in your trip. To me after years of backpacking and hitch hiking it's not about walking around town. This always used to shit me anyway, that it's all about the destination. This is why Lonely Planet is so useless for overlanding. Often in third world countries there isn't much to see in towns, and I'm more of a big picture kind of bloke rather than small detail appreciator. So I'm happy soaking it up riding around a bit taking in some architecture until I find a terras to sit and have a beer or two. Or a nice little restaurant where 9 out of 10 you can still see the bike. But mostly it's about finding out of the way areas with some interesting riding. If I do find a town where I want to walk around I just stay over and as Ted said I get the gear off in a second and chuck it over a shoulder to check out a room and park the bike in a lobby. Usually it's hot and taking gear on and off and leave the cross boots at cabled to the bike for a bit of a walk sucks to me.

So it really depends how you fill in your own trip. I like to pee on the side of the road. ;)

I can sign that ...


the pro and cons are said ....

In our setup the weight difference is not so big

The KTM 690 needs are rack anyway to protect the luggage from the nuclear power exhaust (extremly hot) and further more important to strength the bolts of the tank in the back :oops2:

So for us, the difference between Touratech panniers (6,7kg) and
the saddlebags (about 2-3 kg) is only about 4 kg :cool4:

Before we leave for Africa, I will make a diet and loose 4 kg :clap: or loose it during the trip :D

Because the difference between the Honda and the KTM is about
50 - 60 kg I can gain some weight by drinking a lot beer

dohdohdohdohdohdohdohdoh

Cheers Thomas

4kg... That's optimism if I've ever seen it lol.

The luggage frame for boxes will weigh more than that alone. A frame for metal luggage has to be much stronger and supported (ie heavier) than one just to keep soft bags off your exhaust.

I'd guess more of a 15-20kg difference.

Correct ... each aluminium pannier is about 4 - 6 kgs depending on the quality, while each soft bag is about 1 kg. A full strong luggage rack for metal boxes will be a good 10 kgs, instead of 3-4 kgs for a frame for soft bags.

My experience is that 15-20 kgs is indeed a typical weight saving.

Its also important to remember that some soft bags like the Andy Straps, Steel Pony type bags hold the weight lower, closer in and further forward as well. This multiplies the effective weight savings - mass centralisation.

Do you have the better quality tank bolts and bushings available from a couple of guys on ADVrider? A guy in Australia makes hi tensile replacement bolts that have a good reputation (the factory ones will break for sure after about 2000 km offroad with luggage) and a guy in the states makes much better quality replacement lower tank bushes out of delrin.

You are using standard exhaust?

A very good point !!

Most metal boxes sit very high and far back giving the bike dreadful handling. They have to do this as they need to leave room for a pillion and their system isn't really adjustable without some serious DIY...

My soft bags sit low and much closer to the centre of the bike than any metal boxes could.

Go Light. Go Fast.: Rider Review: Giant Loop Saddlebag on KTM 690e

No racks needed. The standard type soft saddle bags mimic the ali pannier in setup, so unless you have a custom rack like I made the COG is about the same. Just less weight. I reckon with the GL mimicking the shape of the back of your leg for the bottom end where you should have the heavy stuff the COG is slightly further forward. This off course all depends on how you pack it and what you bring. I've tried the steel pony bags on my Dakar and still though that the back of the bike controlled the steering. Didn't feel that at all on my DRZ with the GL. That less gear on it than in the picture, but the bike weighs less than the Dakar as well.

Keep the 4kg of overweight on yourself. You control the bike with your own weight. It doesn't get added to the total. The less you weigh the less you can control your bike. Ask my wife or Isaac Newton about that if you like. :thumbup1:

:thumbup1:Hi

I think, I know almost everything about luggage .... all the pro and cons, I used already everything from soft to hard panniers.

As I said, the KTM 690 has no subframe and in my opinion the rack is a must for that bike

I just don`t like the Giant Loop

Right now, the bikes are still stock ... exhaust, bolts and bushings, but I will change that before we leave for Africa and I have seen the pics from Sherry`s bike :thumbdown: and I know it`s breaking

TT panniers, 29 liter + 35 liter = 6,7 kg
soft bags 2-3 kg

OK, I keep the 4 kg to me ... I like good food and drinks anyway beer

No pillion, my girlfriend is riding herself and I mounted/moved the panniers as much to the front as possible and thats why we have the tank side bags for a better balance

I think the most important questions is:

How much weights the whole thing (bike, luggage, etc.) and how good is your suspension

- the 1150 GS I rode in Marocco was about 300kg
- the XT 600 Z Tenere in Algeria 250kg
- the Africa Twin XRV 650 in North-Southamerica was about 260 - 270 kg

and now the KTM 690, I guess about 200 kg

It would be nice to be a fairly rich person, then we could stay all the time in hotels and eat in restaurants ... that would safe a lot of weight !!!

But, we sleep always in our tent and we cook our meals by ourselve .... :biggrin3: thats why we have all this stuff with us, even chairs :clap::mchappy:

and even if we were rich, we would stay in the wilderness .... much nicer :Beach: :rain: :palm: :freezing:

Thomas

Weight is always an issue.
 

Weight is always an issue.

The weight of the Zega-system is approx 13 kgs incl carriers, that 's easily 10 kg more then soft-luggage.
My bike is 200 kg, when I add fuel, luggage and myself the weight is around 330 kg. The weight-difference between soft and hard is 3% of the total weight.

Do I care? No I don't... The weight-difference between soft and hard is less then the difference between my tank being two thirds full and full.

When I go to remote places I can easily add 30 kg of water and petrol to the numbers above, this makes the difference minimal. Is it possible to carry that amounts with soft-luggage?

Centering of mass is also an issue. In road-racing they have been able to reduce their lap-times with multiple seconds the last years and mass centralization has been a factor. Husaberg and Husqvarna have made good enduro and mx-bikes the last years because they have focused hard on this.
The worst thing you can do to alter the centering of the mass is to pack something behind your back. Top-boxes are one of the best way to mess this up, the huge drybag commonly placed on the seat by people with soft-luggage is another. The huge drybags often move around when you drive offroad which makes it worse.
Yes I know people claim they only pack lightweight stuff in their drybags, I pack the heavy stuff low in front of my boxes.

Yes there are many crap-designs when it comes to racks and boxes. Once I had a motorbike which broke down all the time, I didn't stop to ride motorbikes but I bought another bike.

I don't say that soft-luggage is bad. As soon as Algeria opens up again I might be on the ferry with a ultralight soft-setup with 800 km / 3 days range.

Your maths is flawed. If you ride a lot of off road you know not to add your weight to the bike's weight. Say your bike weighs 200kg wet. Soft luggage weighing 20kg like it did in my picture earlier in the thread its nearly 10%. Add extra fuel to this it's even more. So and extra 10kg is massive. And what this does is move the COG back over the rear wheel making the whole bike unusable off road for any serious riding. To weigh the front we're talking serious rear suspension upgrade which makes the bike crap without the luggage. Off course this is all depending on what you look for. But if you buy an aggressive off road bike why ruin it. In the end it's all a preference, but you don't see to many hard luggage in Australia which is a off road mecca and full of cheap arses.

Personally I can't look at this without cringing, just like I can't look at my own old setups without cringing.

http://lorenjacobi.smugmug.com/photo...04_Q97Ry-M.jpg

I have to agree !!

The irony is, many people buy a nice light off-road bike because they dread it when the tarmac ends and want to make it is easy as possible. That's fair enough and a smart move for over landing.

Then they turn their nice off-road bike into a wallowing pig with heavy poorly spread luggage.

In my experience and also from others who have also tried the same, a bigger heavier bike will actually handle the dirt MUCH better when loaded up with boxes and infact, better than a light Enduro bike with the same cargo.

The weight distribution is much better, the bike has the power to cope with the weight and it feels much more planted.

My DRZ400 is a lovely bike to bike off-road with very light luggage. Very forgiving and nimble. But when I load it up like I would my old Africa Twin, it drags it's arse, the front end goes VERY light and it hasn't got the power/gearing to pull me up steep banks. The whole thing feels awful..

The Africa Twin, being almost twice the weight would handle dirt MUCH better with the same luggage weight. It doesn't make sense until you try it !


In summary, if you buy a light Enduro bike you HAVE to be a minimalist when it comes to luggage or their is just ZERO point to it.

I am also setting um my KTM 690 and I agree with Thomas. I got the Touratech rack mainly for protecting the bike and I was thinking about using soft luggage with it. If you carry luggage the rack is great for not loosing the tank (I am not yet convinced that simply changing the bolt will do if you travel on rough surfaces with luggage and/or a pillion) and it protects the bike in a crash (the thing seems really tough). As Thomas said, the pipe is a furnace, so it is also useful for keeping the luggage away from it. A lot of steel, but I think it is worth it. I weighed the 690 with the Touratech rack, all Touratech crash bars at the front (engine and radiator) and an almost full tank (11-11.5l), it was about 159 kg (with the standard bash plate). Official weight is 152 kg wet.

So for the KTM690 in my opinion it really comes down to the weight difference between the actual bags/boxes (as I said, I'd use the rack and crash bars in any case), i.e. around 4-5 kg. For most trips, I'd use boxes, but I would consider using bags for riding mostly offroad.

Thomas, can you tell me which tank saddle bags you are using? I am looking for some but can't find any I like and which are available for a reasonable price in Germany.

Cheers
Peer

I don't know the 690 very well other than the FI problems a mate of mine had. Which apparently isn't a one off. But has anyone actually broken the tank itself? This bike is designed for rough off road with jumps etc so there should be plenty out there being treated like it's meant to. I reckon the occasional pothole and corrugated road shouldn't break the tank with about 20 extra kg's on the back. You'll be standing up anyway. Off course this is all academic which I why I ask.

Hard cases all the way with a simple padlock.

Didn´t have a single problem from canada to argentina, and there are times when you HAVE to leave the bike out of your site, it´s just not practical otherwise. The tank bag you can take with you and the rest should lock down like guantanamo

In India a lot of hotels have doors with a latch to put your padlock through. Most guide books tell you to bring a padlock for this reason. One time I lost my key of the one that the hotel provided. I thought the hotel bloke would have a spare, but instead he rammed it once and the lock came clean off. No one batter an eyelid.

I think we put to much faith in pad locks. It's just a little brass edge on a steel edge about 2mm wide.

FWIW, there is a thread here somewhere where people at Iquazu falls had their helmets stolen which was padlocked to the bike parked in the public parking lot. They smashed the lock and it was gone. Security is a myth. Just don't leave stuff you can't or wont want to replace.

I seem to recall the helmet straps were cut .
But the advice is still sound ,just don't leave it around .
Or at least put it out of sight so that criminals won't be tempted .

Nah, they had it through the bar.

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...zu-falls-39212

The bloke in this thread had his strap cut

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...zu-falls-39214

Yeah , you're right .
But cutting helmet straps is a common way to steal them .
Also I stopped using the helmet lock on my bike years ago after seeing some poor sod's helmet used as a urinal outside the pub one night .

I intend using a sidecar this year and with regard to security ;my passenger will be my German Shepherd .
She's very territorial .I may have to carry a shovel to bury the bodies .
:funmeteryes:

Yeah.. Mates of mine. Ken and Carol ! Was a hefty lock in a busy car park with security about.

Security is a complete myth as you say. 2mm aluminium, cheap hinges and a pathetic clasp lock won't deter anyone but the laziest opportunist.

I reckon it would take longer to undo the buckles of my army canvas bags than it takes to break the lock off a TT box.

If people have anything in the 3rd world, it's ingenuity !

Its very simple... Take you valuables with you in a tank bag. Who wants to steal your underpants and old tshirts ?? A tent isn't much used to street kid either.

Hi Peer
you said it all ....

My tankbags are custom sewed by a friend, she is pro sewer and I told her to use truck tarp and the strongest line she can handle with her sewingmachine

If you want to buy something, consider the Ortlieb cycle bags and similar .... but you won`t find something cheap, well maybe used at ebay ...

Just try to find a sewer who can handle the truck tarp and have a look at the pics some pages before ....

Greets and good luck searching
Thomas