Stuck in La Paz w/ no FNM. Help?
 

Our plan was to ride through baja to La Paz, take the ferry to Mazatlan and continue south to Guatemala. Unfortunately, we thought we could get all the permits we needed in La Paz, not realizing that we needed to check the bikes in at Tijuana. The customs and immigration officers are all telling us we have to fly to Tijuana to get the right paper and our passport stamp. It seems crazy but we don't know any way around it. They won't issue us the permit we need to take the bikes to the mainland until we have this FMM form from Tijuana.

Anyone have any ideas on what to do? We are even looking into shipping the bikes to Guatemala and flying there because we are so fed up with Mexico. But I can't even find a freight company that will ship from Baja to Guatemala.

Any suggestions appreciated!
www.tiptotip690.com



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No Fmm in Pichilingue
 

Ah , the trouble people make for themselves by half paying attention and then assuming it can All be done in La Paz when it has been so often explained that you need the FMM FROM THE START WHEN ENTERING BAJA. Only the TVIP can be obtained at the ferry terminal.

I just finished a trip through Baja and took the ferry on October 1 and I met three riders who had made the same mistake . The count keeps escalating . When will it end ?

Okay there may be a small chance to resolve this yet , thanks to the findings of one of those three.

Your remaining last hope resides in this : the BANJERCITO folks at the ferry terminal are underlings to a head honcho of the department who works out of an office at the international airport for Los Cabos . The noted finder of this technique speaks totally fluently Spanish and may have an advantage . But described to me that when he realized the dockside workers had a superior he found out that man's name and the place where he worked , then he went there , to the airport and sought him out and pleaded , whined and begged so long that the man wound up issuing him an FMM AS IF HE HAD ARRIVED BY AIR in Los Cabos.

If this does not work you may well have to drive or fly back to the Tijuana end , but even that would be a piddling expense and delay compared to the nightmare of shipping directly to Guatrmala as you petulantly propose.

If it does not work out and you do wind up retreating to the U.S. Border crossing point to get the FMM AND TVIP it would be silly to turn around again to go south through Baja. It will be your perfect opportunity to take a mainland route south, do the Copper Canyon , run the Espinazo from east to west and still see Mazatlan etc etcetc etc

You are kinda stuck. It's repeated numerous times here that when you enter Mexico you need a Visa for yourself ... in Baja ONLY, you need nothing for your bike until you cross by Ferry to mainland.

Tourists must already have a Visa before they will be issued a TVIP (for your bike) in La Paz. You can get both your Visa and TVIP at Tijuana or just get your Visa and then get your TVIP for your bike in La Paz at Ferry Terminal. But Visa comes first and they can deny the TVIP if you don't have a Visa. I've heard that for $400 fine (each) they will issue you a Visa!! doh

You DO NOT need to "Check the Bikes in at Tijuana". You can ride ALL of Baja without any sort of permit for your bike ... but YOU need a Visa.

You can get your bike permit in Tijuana ... in fact it's easier and more pleasant to do it there rather than in LaPaz at the Ferry terminal. Or ... get your TVIP and Visa ON LINE ahead of time! Easy!

I'm surprised they won't issue you a Visa at Migracion in La Paz ... but I guess they are now tightening up this rule, which has been in place for some years.

Try this: Go to Migracion. Tell them you've only been in Mexico 5 days and that you want to buy a Visa. Explain no one told you or asked for your Visa. (You are supposed to get it in Baja within (I think) 7 days.)
Since there are NO Visa check points in Baja ... how are tourists supposed to know where to get a Visa or that they even need one? Try that argument ... hope it works. (PS, as you know, there ARE check points in Baja ... but all are Army and none ask for a Visa)

Alternative is to fly or take bus North to Tijuana, go to Migracion (border), get your tourist Visa (about $22) then return to La Paz where you can now buy your TVIP and Ferry ticket for mainland. Visa and TVIP good for 6 months. About $65 for TVIP, $22 for Visa. (mas o menos)

Getting a Tourist Visa at or near Mexican/USA border takes about 10 minutes. I just sort of assumed everyone knew that when you enter a foreign country you get a visa and get your passport stamped. For US Citizens, they don't even stamp your passport ... they just staple in your Visa.

You can travel in the Northern half of Baja (Baja Norte) with NO Visa for a period of (I think) 7 days in border region. If you cross further South than Guerrero Negro, then you are supposed to have a Visa.

They used to let tourists slide on some of this but you are the 3rd party I've heard about that were refused a TVIP in La Paz because of NO Visa.
Technically .... they can deport you if they want.

You did not mention your nationality ... sometimes this can make a difference depending on your home country's relationship with Mexico.

As useful as HUBB is ... I still feel a good, current guide book is always best.
Basics. ... just basics.

:oops2:

Mollydog , Since you can order and buy an FMM on- line do they then simply let you print it off anywhere you are ?

If that is the case maybe the errant traveller can do that online while in La Paz already and then go to the ferry terminal and play dumb for not having validated it at the border.
Would that work ?

You can only buy online for 7 days in the future. Thank you for your comments. We obviously realize we made a mistake but I have never been into a country before that makes you stop and get the visa instead of stopping you and giving it to you.


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Not to rub salt in wounds, but...

Like the two boys have already said, research ahead of time is extremely important. If you didn't notice that, I'm wondering what else you overlooked.

Get on your bikes and ride to the nearest border. Stop wasting time.:funmeterno:

Mexico treats those who wish to enter as tourists as adults , welcoming but expecting us to know our responsibilities and see that we take the required steps to get the documentation . Most border traffic does not need the documents of tourists , asking everybody would waste their time.
The USA treats all incoming travellers as probable criminals and perverts and has installed many roadblocks , screenings and a stringent application of exclusionary rules. They would apparently be much happier if we turned back from the border and never returned.

Venturaphoto do let us know what you wind up doing , how you resolved the problem .

yes, but no way you wind up inland in the US with a visa/TVIP problem...

as bad as uncle sam is about people, at least he isn't all ****ed up crazy about importing vehicles--the single biggest pain in the ass in just about every other country on the planet.

Ah , but there is indeed much to-do in the USA about temporary importing of tourist's vehicles. Your and my experiences in that respect are coloured by the fact we live in two neighbouring countries who have a mutual agreement to permit free temporary movement of personal use vehicles . However if you speak to tourists coming from overseas to the USA and Canada you will hear a very different story , involving a good amount of paperwork and fees before they may ride their bikes here. They are given a limited time to ride, then the machine must be removed from country . If they fail to comply with those rules they can be arrested, jailed and deported and banned from ever visiting again.

The same holds true if we visit Europe , and nigh on anywhere else.
Not much difference , really. It all comes down to doing the research before diving in .

Thanks for all the info and such. We ended up just flying back to tij to get it handled. I'm sure if we had more time and motivation we could have done it in the south. Greasing the right wheels and such. We just wanted to be sure everything was legit. In the end we learn a bit and are down a few $$$...


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So, all fixed. Just enjoy the rest of the trip.

Someone on ADVRider had the same issue and wen't to the airport in LaPaz and told them he needed the tourist card and they issued it there, no need to go back to TJ

That wouldn't help much since you need the importation documents for the vehicles and those you can only get them at the border.

WRONG! :nono:
You can get a TVIP in La Paz, Baja Sur .... but you must have a Tourist Visa before hand to get it.

You can get a TVIP at the border too, but just to clarify there is a Banjercito office in La Paz at the Ferry port.

I think what you speak of is when vehicles are brought into USA via Air or Sea? In those cases I've heard of paperwork issues, time limits for vehicles and such. Never done it, so not clear on details but I know for permanent importation it's very complicated. (Temporary? dunno)

But I've passed Mexico/USA border with friends riding bikes on foreign plates. No problem at all, no paper work done at all on the bike. They only want to see your Visa or Passport. My friend had a bike and a car with German plates on.
He passed that border several times, no issues. He is a dual citizen and also has FM2 status for Mexico. Now, all his vehicles are on Idaho plates. (cheaper and easier to transfer than California)

These problems for visitors from overseas who bring their vehicles into the USA will apply even to those who come in by land from Mexico or through Canada.

Last fall a pair of Australians left their two bikes parked for the winter at a friends house here in Canada and they came back this April to continue into the USA . They had to exit Canada by a specific date . They described all the paperwork it took to get into the USA and how they then had one year allowed there before they had to remove the bikes .
Last month in Santa Rosalia BCS an English couple on two bikes related how they had to set up their papers with the USA and how they had to get their bikes out before a certain date. They were planning on going on into Canada to store the bikes before flying back to England for a visit, then back to the bikes and more arranging time in USA .

Your friend on German plates may have had special status because of dual citizenship with Mexico or got lucky with slack border personnel , who knows, but there are definitely hurdles to cross for overseas tourists who are only visiting , not importing bikes permanently .

Well, you're actually wrong.

Let's say a Mexican border crosser (BCC) crossed into the US at TJ and told the immigration officer that he or she was going shopping locally. THEN, he or she was found at the San Clemente checkpoint (or worse, Disneyland) -- far outside of the "border zone allowed for BCC holders.

Without an I-94, the BCC holder would be out of status and the BCC would be revoked and the BCC removed to Mexico.

Happens way too often and the excuse is usually, "I didn't know..."

The good news is, CBP no longer seizes the vehicles for that offense.

I'm about to make the same trip. What's a FNM?

FMM I think. You pay US$25 and the immigration officer fills in a slip of paper and the tear off stub is put in your passport. Visitors visa - good for 6 months.

It's your tourist visa. As noted in this thread ... be sure to stop at BORDER ... go to Migracion office to get yours. I'm not sure of the acronym but I always ask for "Tarjeta de Turismo" and everyone seems to know what I need.

Price fluctuates depending on dollar value ... somewhere between $20 to $25 now but goes up a bit every year (it seems?). Good for 6 months.
!Que le via muy bien!

bier

Thanks, I probably would have screwed that up. So many questions. I'm sure this will all fall into place once I'm on the road.

It will be similar at any and every border you cross, it is only matter of remembering that AT THE BORDER you must stop to do some official paperwork . Even if you do not know what or why you can find out on the spot by the act of ASKING a member of the actual customs staff who sit inside at counters with the labels MIGRACION clearly displayed.
Most of the recent screw ups described here are due to noobs riding into a Mexican border crossing blissfully ignorant of the requirements and too flustered to ask for fear of ... what ? That they will get mugged ? And then when a traffic flow coordinator suggests they keep mouving they think they have been cleared and directed to continue on into Mexico.

The Mexico customs staff may not speak English but the FMM application you are asked to fill out has all sections printed in Spanish and English

FMM stands for the words Forma Migratoria Multiple and even if you speak no Spanish you CAN remember and say those very words in a questioning voice .:thumbup1:
Or beforehand write them out on a card followed with a ? mark and hold that up as if you are a mute.

Then just ask them what other documentation you need for your bike and they will send you over to the guys who do your Temporary Vehicle Import Permit or in Spanish if you babble about Permiso para Importacion Temporal de moto you will be understood .
Congrats Blackdog , for asking beforehand .
Just keep your cool at the border and follow the directions and you will do fine

You wish. Some border arrangements seem specifically arranged to make this as hard as possible. Main thing is that there is a two step procedure leaving and the same entering.

MAKE VERY sure you get an Immigration exit stamp and then hand in the TIP at Aduana (sometimes the same person). Immigration and aduana may be the same person or many kilometres apart. Ideally have a copy of your TIP and get it stamped as proof you handed it in. Bolivia actually hand you a receipt.

At the next post for entry to the country(which ranges from 1 metre to 150km away you get and entry stamp in your passport - double check it is there and then to Aduana - wherever it might be - for vehicle TIP. DOUBLE check that ALL details on the TIP are correct. Take a copy and keep it separate.

Couple of resources on the net. Couple of very comprehensive posts on this forum plus there are some borders covered in the iOverlander list, plus there are some blogs that seem to fixate on border crossings, sometimes with good reason. One local resource is to ask the money changers at the border - the ones with the 10 cm thick pile of notes in their hand. They are universally helpful - as distinct from the fixers who are variously described as saints or criminals with no way to figure out who is what.

Many immigration offices will give you a entry "visa" form tucked in the back of your passport to be handed in when you leave the country. I ask for their stapler and staple it in the back of my passport so it doesn't get lost.

Other slight complications - vehicle "fumigation" which is often charged for and rarely effective, and agricultural inspections such as by SAG on entry into Chile.

This is what I got at the border, am I good to go? I'm traveling with an experienced Spanish speaking lady that said we have the necessary paper work to board the ferry. After reading this tread I'm not so sure.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...pselxtbaav.jpg

Si senor Carpenter , you have your FMM and YOU are set to proceed from ALGODONES to Pichilingue . I hope your companion also has obtained a similar document, or she will be staying in La Paz .
Save that big white page , it is your proof of payment. If you lose it you have to pay again when you cancel that FMM .

But there is a next step you must do at Pichilingue before you may buy the ticket and get on the ferry.
If you are travelling on ONE motorcycle, yours , or on two individual bikes you must at PICHILINGUE still obtain for each bike the Permiso para importacion temporal de vehiculos which we here on these sites constantly refer to as the TVIP ,or Temporary Vehicle Import Permit.
AND for each bike you will have to post the security deposit , Maximum value $400US , which will be refunded when you cancel the TVIP.

Decide which ferry sailing you want to use , go to the Pichilingue ferry terminal a day early , or at least 5 hours before on the day of the departure , enter the main gate and park the bike(s) .
Go into the blue and beige two story building to west of the parking lot area and seek out the office where the TVIP are issued . Sniff around and ask and you will find it easily. You may pay for the TVIP and the Security deposit with your credit card or US$ CASH. (Always have cash on hand in case you mess up the PIN and the cc is balked, I have fat fingered the PIN several times and so I know this )
With the TVIP in hand you may now go to the lower level in that building where you will find the counter for ticket sales and you may now buy passage on the ferry you wish to use.
If that ticket counter is still closed because it is considered too far in advance of the time when passengers are expected to show up you can get a ticket from the small offices of the individual ferry companies located along the inside of the ferry terminal property fence to the north of the main entry gate. These small offices are always staffed to deal with the truckers mainly.
Payment for the ticket maybe done in cash , by credit card and even a debit card may work, so try that .
At some point in the ticket buying you will be asked to ride your bikes across the weigh scale so that they may determine the total tonnage the ferry will be carrying. It will not affect the price of the ticket for the bike.
With ticket AND TVIP in hand you may now either asssume a waiting mode untill your ferry boarding is slated to commence, or if you are a day or two early you may leave to enjoy the local roads, spend nights in La Paz and then return at least 5 hours before the scheduled departure time.
Now, go and enjoy the trip south through Baja.