Mexico riders heads up
 

Just a quick heads up about two things that can affect your travel in Mexico. First, the money exchange locales are tied to the national banking system. So, if the banks are closed, your local "casa de cambio" is also closed if it is a legally operating money exchange operation. Second, and more important, at least three Mexican states are bankrupt or nearing bankruptcy. Veracruz, Chihuahua, and Quintana Roo have been bled dry by corrupt governors. This means road repairs, ambulance, policing services, and the general infrastructure are in severe disrepair in the kinds of areas that ADV riders like to frequent i.e. the rural and more remote areas. Also, with more government workers going unpaid, there are more protests in the urban areas. Mexico varies wildly from state to state in crime levels and corruption, some states are doing fine and business as usual and others are in the hole. An ambulance response time, on average, has never been exceptional, and you are simply on your own in more places, today, than before. More and more pressure is being put on the federal government for bailouts for the states with the worst financial problems.

Come on , Pinproject !!!

Mike is doing a great service for visitors to Mexico by keeping us informed about situations that can and do impact is visitors . Why insist on more of the rose coloured glasses view offered by the glam tourist industry for resort areas .
It is good to be made aware of some of the underlying problems so that we can understand the situations that we may have to deal with in the regular back country .

Thanks Mike ,

Thanks for your continued insights into important facts relevant to travel in Mexico, Mike.

:thumbdown: Pinproject- I can't say that you have posted anything useful to me here.

I found Mike's information to be current and on-point for a traveler and it's the kind of information I can use to make good traveling decisions.

.........shu

Just like in Greece: Put the paper in the trash can provided

Exactly which bit did Mike make up?

I've tried plenty of ATMs in Mexico and they don't all work.

Mike never said Mexico had to have fast medical response. But knowing that responses might be slow, might focus people's riding behaviour (after all Mike's post was aimed at riders)


Tasteless sarcasm.


What here is terrifying?

Your blog/website is very insightful if forming opinions for people who might want to give you money for advice that is freely available on the HUBB, so that you can extend your car travels.

"On the Road"
 

I remember Jack Kerouac. One of the Beat Generation. I met him at a bar called the Wild Boar in Tampa Florida. I was a student, he was already famous and had written many books since "On the Road" He died shortly thereafter.

“Nothing behind me, everything ahead of me, as is ever so on the road.”
― Jack Kerouac, On the Road

If I may share the following, and I do so because I recognize here a much deeper philosophy than ATMs, and toilet etiquette, as necessary as these are, there does exist some purpose and meaning to travel. - xfiltrate

Perhaps this thread could benefit from a few of Kerouac's quotes. I sure hope so. I have lived and worked in Mexico 3 years 1980 -1983 and this year 2016 have lived in Kino Bay, Mexico for 5 months. I am fluent in Spanish and yes 7 gang members were gunned down by a rival gang 40 K from Kino Bay while I lived there, but life went on. ATMs and toilets continued working - just as they work in most of world. xfiltrate

"Perhaps it is the inner journey that is more meaningful to you. The reflections of life are just that, reflections" -
xfiltrate.

“The road must eventually lead to the whole world.”
― Jack Kerouac, On the Road

“There was nothing to talk about anymore. The only thing to do was go.”
― Jack Kerouac, On the Road

“For the next week that was all I heard - manana, a lovely word and one that probably means heaven.”
― Jack Kerouac, On the Road

“He knew the road would get
more interesting, especially ahead, always ahead.”
― Jack Kerouac, On the Road

Eat, Drink and forever be "On the Road". xfiltrate

I am leaving for Guatemala from Michigan. It's a 3500 mile (5600 klicks) trip and I for one am very interested in MikeMike's posts. I think Sjoerd is the bomb (bought his handy guides) too.

I would like to get contact info from ex-pats and residents as I travel through so I can reach-out if I run into trouble. My travel outline (very loose) is enter at Nuevo Laredo, travel down 85, swing around on 57, 70 back to 85 and the ruins at Tula and Teotihuacan. To Veracruz and Oaxaca then along the coast to Tapachula to cross into GT then over to Lake Atitlan.

I am keeping an open mind and schedule so fire away and tell me the "can't miss places" and the "avoid if possible areas"

If anybody out there is a friend of Bill W. I'd like to meet up with you!

Pin, apparently you had some problem with the blockades in Chiapas or Oaxaca , unfortunate but you got over it by your own . But now you are wishing to blame these websites for not helping you while in the midst of that ?
Really ,there have been a good number of posts by Mike to alert you to what might be going on .Those situations and other crime events flare up and die down in various places very unpredictably . Furthermore he and others have made frequent posts that stated the need for all travellers to exercise their own observational skills and to keep informed on local developments . It seems that you may have been remiss in those awareness - gaining activities and were surprised by a blockade while thinking only about the wonderful tourist targets ? To blame someone else for that is silly .
Its like when a kid wants to cross the road, he should first look left and right and left again before deciding if the time is right to cross to the candy shop (or whatever delights he sees) on the other side . He can't expect his parent to be there all the time to hold his hand and help him cross .

There are plenty of other resources to deal with explaining the details of the minutiae of daily living like toilets , which faucet to use, feul grades ,how many pieces of underwear to take , etc... ...
, if one needs that much guidance and can't figure it out alone.

So let's review:

Forum rules prohibit personal attacks. This is true even when, for whatever reason, you feel totally justified in posting an attack. It's even true when you've been the target of personal attacks by someone else.

Therefore: please cut it out. You are welcome to debate local politics, activities you believe worthwhile, or even underlying philosophies of travel itself. Personal attacks--including by sarcasm or name-calling--are not allowed.

Don't like that? There are other on-line venues where personal attacks are well-tolerated. Go there.

Thanks.

Mark

Addendum to my last post:

The topic of this thread was established by the OP. Please stay approximately on-topic. Anyone wishing to address other topics may start a new thread in the appropriate forum.

Thanks again.

Mark

Don't know who Bill W is, hence will struggle being his friend (possibly due to the fact I'm not a native of North America, so struggle with some Gringo turn of phrases), but if you're intentionally or inadvertently passing Mexico City, please drop me a line, either via PM or email (see my website).

¡Suerte!

One for the Mod
 

Thanks Markharf -
I agree with you and Hubb's policy of no personal attacks.

Not sure why some people take all this so personally?

xfiltrate

Whoa! All I was trying to do was give a heads up. I've had the pleasure of meeting with and sometimes riding with people on this forum. Some have become great friends. I've been living here and riding daily in Mexico for almost 2 anda half decades and know the area since 1978. I prefer to avoid arguments and simply pass along information. I also prefer to not sugarcoat anything. If someone doesn't like what I post, then skip it, but don't start an argument over facts, please. I appreciate the kind words from those I have helped, really it is simply about sharing info and making any ride easier!

RRHartzler, I am a friend of a few friends of Bill W. if that helps anyone. Bill W. is like a very, very good mechanic :)

Hahaha MikeMike, "Friends of Bill W." is code for a members of Alcoholics Anonymous...I'm in recovery and was wanting to see if anyone along the way was a member and would like to get together and maybe hit a meeting. But hey! if Bill W's a mechanic, I'd definitely like to e a friendd of his as well.

Thanks Chris! I will be visiting Tula and Teotihuacan, you just might get a shout out. Bill W. was the founder of AA so we just use that phrase "Friends of Bill W." as code for members in recovery. I actually attended a meeting in Cancaun on my honeymoon years ago and it was great, I didn't understand a word said but understood exactly what was being shared.

I'm wiser today. Thanks! Drop me a line as and when. If you do come we won't be talking of having "seen Elvis" then! :thumbup1:

I know. I was merely making a comparison. Bill W. and the concept of AA repairs humans like a good mechanic fixes a bike. I've ridden with many of "his friends" and count them among my friends. I admire your sobriety and am more than willing to help you find the folks of the local chapters. Bill W. has saved many people throughout the world.

Thank you
 

Hey MikeMike, just wanted to say thank you for your insights . You may not remember that you offered us a place to stay as we we traveling through during the Teacher's Protest but I do. It is the discussions on the forum and perspectives that are shared that I as a novice rider hold on to. It gives me encouragement and adds to my travels. By the way we are in Nicaragua, this journey has been so cool.Thank you- Diana

MikeMike:

I thought there was an actual guy named Bill W., hahahaha jokes on me. I would appreciate any contacts when I get down there, it's alays great to hit a meeting in a strange town. You rock!

Any updates on the situation in southern Mexico, Mikemike (or any other informed HUBBer)?

I'm in Michoacan at the monarch reserve and heading out tomorrow toward Veracruz and then down to Oaxaca via 175 and on to the coast and 200 til Chiapas. Should I be avoiding any roads or specifically targeting any?

Many thanks.

hey jellyed, dont know where you are now, but a few days ago we ran into the bmw club from Durango, they specifically warned us to avoid veracruz... it wasnt in our route anyways.

Did they say why to avoid Veracruz? I live in Veracruz and ride everyday and have done so for 23 years. Some of the absolute best mountain riding in Mexico is on the Veracruz-Puebla border, the Pacific coast doesn't come close. Listening to a BMW club in Mexico is not always the best idea. Sorry you missed what could easily have been the highlight of your trip. In Veracruz, you simply avoid the heavily transited Mex #180 coast highway. Simple. I was a member of a BMW club for exactly one year. Situations like this of spreading misinformation through total lack of knowledge was one reason why I left.

Good to know Mikemike, as i may eventually be headed north through mexico later on. They didnt specify why to avoid Veracruz, but i assumed it was just the city itself.

Actually, I've gotten a lot of comments about avoiding Veracruz too, or, if I've already told them that I came that way their eyebrows perk up and then they express surprise and caution. In both cases, I ask what in particular. Carteles? Protesters? Local thieves? They never have an answer, so I'm not sure if they are just passing on rumors and old stories or whether as locals they are tapped in to the situation but just don't have specifics.

In any case, I made it safely through Veracruz and am now in Oaxaca. Ran into protests at the state border on 175, but they opened the road quickly after I arrived so not too much waiting. Heading toward the coast via 175 Monday so we will see if there are any more obstacles. A gringo I met here who is traveling by bus arrived at the coast two days ago without incident, so I'm hoping the situation holds.

Thanks for the input, all.

There is a lot of BS about riding in this part of Mexico floating around in a lot of bike forums. Those that say Mexico hasnt changed dont live here and havent seen the changes, then there are those that say to avoid certain states altogether. You can safely ride in all states by simply using common sense. Riding on rural brechas through areas known to be under narco control is a fool's paradise. Ask local riders, they will help you. Riding secondary or non-cuota roads in states with poor maintenance of roadways means you need to be more alert and not get complacent or lazy. Ask for info and riders or travellers with bonafide experience will respond. Listening to someone from Zacatecas talk about Veracruz and meanwhile they have zero bonafide info about the state, is like listening to someone from Iowa talk about Chicago when they've never been there.

The security situation in Mexico varies greatly day to day especially along the main drug routes. It has been quiet in my area for a long time until this past week and then the bodies started piling up again. Seems the shooting has ended, so maybe, it will be quiet again. Quien sabe? Some areas are basically lawless, so if you ride those routes, be prepared. No one knows with certainty if any area along or near a drug route is safe, it is remains a fluid situation.

Hi Don and Mike
What are the main "drug routes" you speak of Don? I've been around a while, that is I don't get spooked easily, am not naive (interestingly this word spelt backwards is a brand of drinking water... :rain: ) and also gave up a long time on BMW as a brand of m/c. However my ability to read Spanish isn't too clever, so reading up on the topic isn't so easy at local news outlets.

In a week or 2 I intend to head southeast from CDMX towards the Caribbean coast and head south, before cutting west to the Pacific and northwards and across to Baja California from Mazatlan and then north to SoCal.

Maybe we can drink a cerveza together too?

Best
Chris

In my area, Jalisco, a main drug route would be up MX 200 and there are always problems on this route in the area of Tecoman, Acapulco, Manzanillo, and Lazaro Cardenas, In this area there are multiple cartels fighting for control. Many of the meth precursors from Asia come thru Manzanillo, Colima. There are other splinter routes coming out of Michoacan. One is thru La Barca. The Jalisco cartel CNGJ and the Templarios of Michoacan have been battling it out in this area for the last three years. South of Uruapan in Michoacan is hot.

Advrider is full of bad advice from expats who report there are no problems if you are a gringo riding in Michoacan or Guerrero. That is just not true if you are riding thru a lawless area in these states. It is a fluid situation.

That all being said, I feel safer here than in the US. I still ride into Michoacan on a weekly basis. But I am not a tourist, so my experience and awareness perception is not the same. Que te vaya bien.

Here it is the Mex #180. Period. But not because of drugs, but due to poor road conditions. All of southeast Veracruz has seen a huge rise in crime. However, no riders have been affected. Avoid the brechas throughout the areas near Minatitlan, Coatzacoalcos, and Acayucan. Motorcycle travellers are still more of a curiousity here than a target, but dont go sticking your front wheel where it shouldn't be. I rode 450kms yesterday through previously known hotspots but I also had been advised that, like in Pancho's statement, things had quieted down. Poza Rica and Martinez de la Torre up north are high crime areas, and the area around Platon Sanchez has always been rough for roads and has spiked from time to time for criminal activity. Unless you know the brechas well around Ciudad Mendoza and Ciudad Serdan/Esperanza, ask first. The Mex #180 is a long shitty highway, narrow, filled with double semis and the usual caravans of Central American "in tow" vehicles The state and secondary roads are bumpy and lumpy, in the next two weeks the military will be returing statewide and ramping up activities. I trust them as much as I trust the bad guys. Have a look at the new documentary, "Watching Them Die" and you'll know why. Read Anabel Hernandez's new book, "La verdadera Noche de Iguala" and you'll understand how much Mexico has changed to become the second biggest supplier of heroin in the world, right behind Afghanistan. That, and with the huge amount of meth production and illegal fuel sales from tapped pipelines, is exactly why you don't go riding without understanding where you really are. This is common sense to those that live here and those that have racked up big kilometers over the last few years as visiting riders.
There's the facts about how things really are. Touring riders will likely never see the bodies piled up, literally, like those of us who live and ride here everyday have seen. Just pay attention and ask local riders, they'll know what is a threat to a visiting rider. Traffic accidents and road conditions or both, are what usually presevnt the most danger to riders, just like anywhere else. I know guys who ride the coast down from Matamoros to Tampico. I won't ride that route due to events that I know of that involved visiting riders solo on the stretch by Sota La Marina. Common sense tells me to avoid desolate areas solo on routes where riders have had trouble. Easy, see? It isn't anything more than a little extra caution. Besides, the road is boring with not much worth looking at.

Many thanks for your quick and detailed replies gents. Much appreciated. When I have a better handle of timings, I'll drop you a line as to my movements and hopefully we can drink a cerveza or 2.

Ok, Chris. You might see increased military activity in the south of Veracruz in the area of the municipality of Jesus Carranza. 20 dead in military led shootouts in the last 72 hours. Mostly night time and brecha areas. Another reason I would never advise anyone to do the "look at me" gringo photo with cops or military anywhere in Mexico.

I would never advise anyone to do the "look at me" gringo photo with cops or military anywhere in Mexico.

Exactamente. It is no laughing matter to act flippant with a Mexican Marine and a .50 cal Browning.

Especially when they, like cops, are targets and actively at war and engaging the cartels. Avoid contact with both unless you are ordered to stop for a checkpoint. And if you are in a town that is shuttered during the day, they are expecting trouble.

Any suggested routes for riding from Palenque to Tikal? On my map, it is hard to see which roads are major and which are backroads. In fact, from El Ciebo (MEX) to El Naranjo (GTA) there is a gap and two "negative/minus" signs, which I interpret as there being no road. Also, I have no idea about safety in that part of Guatemala, but recently read a RR elsewhere about one of those routes between the two sites being a bit sketchy.

Anyway, would be ever grateful for any input from the veterans here.