" I can't really see how propping up a pan on some rocks is any less troublesome"

Because you will always have a pan for cooking anyway so why bring a v-kettle to do the same thing. In a car of course it's not a big deal and a v is fun to use (and saves stove fuel) but I guess I was looking at developing the v-concept for trekkers and bikers for whom it's too bulky.

MHO on your plan Mick, it looks like a kelly complete with tray - but why? you stick sticks, paper and grass down the hole or up the chuff, not coals in the tray, no? Handle and spout looks nice though and if it's s/s then you're ahead.

A simple, chunky one-piece design does it for me though: a 50mm high, well-ventilated 'skirt' (ie: continuation of the cylinder - thick for strength), thin guage 'cone' to conduct well, a big spout for easy pouring in and a big chimney aperture for adding sticks. Leave the trays for tea at the Ritz I reckon ;-)

Ch

HI Chris

Thats not my design. it looks good, but the dome top would be expensive to form. I have an even simpler design at the fabricators at present. They have so far had the design for 10 weeks????????. I have stuck with the one peice design for the kettle, but I do keep thinking about a fire place made of stainless.

Two years ago at Billing the Forward Control Enthusiast Club used an old wheel rim as a fire place and then threw weld mesh on top and cooked their dinner on it, Off came the mesh and on went the logs late into the night. Next morning on went the mesh and they cook bacon on it. Get the picture? I was thinking of a mini version that the kettle sat in while it got going, burnt all the toxins off and then on with the frying pan. Basically just a tube with holes at the bottom and castlations at the top

Just a thought. Will post picture when I get the prototype kettle

Cheers Mick

[This message has been edited by Jabbawocky (edited 05 September 2005).]

Hi all and Chris

At last the prototype has arrived and it is as tough as old boots. I think it is a little large for most people, but I will let you be the judge. It holds about 3 pints and boiled a litre of water in 10 mins on paper and garden waste.

http://jabbawocky.no-ip.org/slides/Mick's_Kettle.jpg

Let me know what you think. Unfortunately it will have to sell for about £60.00

Cheers Mick

PS have now got the boiling time down to 6 mins, now she is run in (blacked up in the cone).



[This message has been edited by Jabbawocky (edited 21 September 2005).]

http://jabbawocky.no-ip.org/slides/Mick's_Kettle.jpg

[This message has been edited by anotherchrisscott (edited 19 September 2005).]

Nice design that, and very similar to the kettles I have been using for a few years now from Australian Geographic:

http://www.australiangeographic.com/...eaction=Detail

I have had 2 kelly kettles, and now have two 'eco-billies'. In my mind there is no discussion - kelly kettles are a complete waste of time and money, the Australian ones are fantastic.

Just my opinion!

Sam.

Another thought.

With ALL of them, you should not let them boil dry - so something to watch with your design as it is not possible to check the water level - also filling possibly a little fiddly (through the spout, I suppose?).

Sam.

Hi Sam

Thanks for your comments. I was thinking of increasing the size of the spout and also reducing the volume. Do you find the Eco-billy's about the right size or too big/too small?
Anyone got any veiws on the Price?

all comments gratefully received

Cheers Mick

I have the 1L versions and they're spot on. Best for doing a brew first thing, and also increasing the available quantity of hot water before cooking.

When I have groups of 10-15 pax, both billies are at full speed and do need to be refilled regularly - realistically you only get 3-4 mugs out of one brew (after some water boils off without being spotted). This isn't a problem as long as you keep the thing full (that's kind of what I was referring to with being able to see how full/empty the thing is.

Handy hint, if you have no twigs at all, then get an empty can from the night before, fill with sand and diesel, and light - perfect (if perhaps a little smoky!!!).

Sam.

The eco-billies - hard to tell as the pic was small in Sam's link but there are better pix and a discussion here:
http://www.bushtrackerownersgroup.as...rint=1&Print=1

AnotherChrisScott - we need your webbing skills to get a picture in here.

Thanks Sam for bringing EBs to out attention and your prescient observations on the Kellies. (Did Ned Kelly wear one on his head?).
Oddly EBs look unnervingly similar to the [functionally useless] mock ups I got made which are now housing squirrels on the garage roof - but the above discussion was year earlier so I'll get over it..

As for running dry, I imagine a welded unit will just get very hot and bothered - my old soldered ones of course turned into shower heads!

Mick, your LR wheel heat-sink idea does not relate usefully to v-kettles because all the heat energy put into heating up the 'wheel' should be going on heating the water instead - fast. This to me is the whole point of vks, efficiency in not wasting fuel while making a quick brew on the piste. If you want all-night/next morning heat you can use rocks. In my experience, this efficiency: boil time versus fuel used, is especially advantageous in the desert where fuel can be scarce but wind is common. This is why a thin 'cone' is needed while the thicker outer body gives strength.
The mocks ups I got made were too thick bodied (1.5/2mm?). Took ages to boil but then carried on boiling long after the fuel was spent. Not very useful at all and contrary to all v-kettle protocols.

MHO on your mock up design:
I'm surprised the thing does not pass out for lack of air. Triple the number of vents (especially on one side; windward) and the thing should boil well under 5 mins - esp with a good wind which speeds things up like Trangias. Have to say though, that eco billy ventage also looks modest - but that is easily fixed.
The chinmey ought be bigger to put in thicker twigs for a long/multiple boils.
And the spout bigger too for filling without a funnel out of a jerry (or just eliminate the spout altogether and whack a nick into the cylinder side to aid pouring).

Sorry to say I would rather buy an ecobill with the fold down handles for 30-odd quid than yours for 60.
In fact I just bought an Eco expedition kit for £65 posted - just in time for my next trip hopefully.

Ch

Hi Chris

Thanks for the reply. looks like I was wasting my time as the eco-billies look a good product and unless I get several hundred made in China, I will not be able to compete on price. The whole idea was to have them made in Yorkshire. Might still have a few made and combine them with the charcoal cooker idea, I got from the wheel fire place.

Used the kettle several times and it works great, just a little big. The production model will have bigger spout, smaller volume and more air holes. Will have words with the fabricator about the price.

What is the eco expedition kit you mention and what is the delivery time from OZ.

Cheers Mick

>The whole idea was to have them made in Yorkshire.

Then IMO you are taking liberties with the vk ethos - efficiency! Sadly these days it has to be Asia or domestic slave labour.

>What is the eco expedition kit you mention
A big and a small one.

>and what is the delivery time from OZ.
I'll know when I get them, I guess.

I have proposed Matt S brings in a batch, but I don't want to disturb his hiberation.

Ch

Hi Chris

>Then IMO you are taking liberties with the vk ethos - efficiency!

How efficient and eco friendly is it to transport things half way around the planet?

Mick