How important is it to have an easily hidden tent color
 

We're putting together the gear for a RTW with our dogs. Because we're bringing them we expect to spend most nights camping, and most of those nights will probably be hidey-camping. The tent we've decided to go with has a dark green variant as well as your standard bright orange, but we can't decide which to go with.

Our thinking is this:

If we spend a day just relaxing in the tent (maybe avoiding a hail storm, or whatever else mother nature throws at us) the green is going to be somewhat depressing. I've always enjoyed waking up in a brightly colored tent.

We've heard other riders suggest that it's important to be as hidden as possible. But, how hidden can we really be when we've also got a Ural and F650GS standing next to the tent?

I figure we'll either be totally hidden (behind a hill, down some tiny side-road, etc), or it won't matter what color our tent is because a four person tent and two big bikes are going to stand out like a sore thumb.

We'd really love to hear from someone who's done a bunch of hidey-camping and can comment on how much of a difference tent-color makes.

Hi,

I wouldnt worry too much about the color. If you enjoy having a red tent bay it. The tent you have choosen is able to stand even without hugs and can be used as Moscquito protection without the raincover. Those two things matter everything else doesnt realy. As you said your bikes and tire marks will easily be spotted and if you would carry a carmoflage tent you might get trouble with the military...

Travel save, Tobi

How about a Hilleberg Kerron. Green outside and nice yellow inner fly.
The three and four man would be big enough for your needs.
Better to have the option of going incognito every time - you can't always camp where you should.

Welcome to Two Bikes Running

My wife and I last summer got a 4-man Hilleberg Kerron and we discussed the merits of the brighter colour versus the green, but in the end decided on green.

Here it is at the HU Meeting in Nakusp 2011:
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6068/6...7a27fb_z_d.jpg

While we haven't done any "wild camping", the green Kerron does seem to blend into the trees somewhat. I don't find it's depressing while inside because the inner tent is yellow and is pretty bright inside, especially when the sun is shining!

The 4-man might be big for some, but my wife wanted the space and we travel on 2 bikes with the camping gear spread across both bikes.

Here's a pic showing its relative size in a less than wild campground (Omak Rodeo Grounds Municipal Campground, Omak, WA)
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6083/6...cceea129_d.jpg

It's easy to setup and take down - I can highly recommend the Kerron.

Ian

Come to think of it, our Redverz Adventure tent is also green. We picked one up on sale at the Calgary Bike Show from AnderWorks, for the occasional solo trips.

We discussed the colour of it too and decided on green versus bright yellow.

Ian

Go with the green tent that orange is way to bright for me. Get a tarp for the bikes if you think you need it. Many places in the world no one will care where you camp so long as it is not on there land. You gust do not want stand out if you can help it.

I too would vote for the green. You would be amazed how far away orange is visible. We have a green Land Rover with orange Maxtrax strapped to one side and it is that you can spot from miles away. Plus I think it's nicer to blend in with your environment as much as you can.

A word of warning on the latter though. A couple of years back we were working in an national park famous for it's elephants. I had always been led to believe that elephants step round tents but we had a very shaken guy whose small, dark tent had been walked "through" by a huge bull the night before. It stepped on a bottle of water next to his head which exploded and then with it's trailing leg demolished the tent. Luckily he was OK apart from a bruised shoulder.

A green tent for me means I can't have a lie in if its sunny but no shade :( Too dark means too hot so no snoozing!

But I could take a tarp to shade the tent perhaps on those rare occasions?

A dark tent will be harder to spot, but as you say, two bikes, two people, dogs, noise, smells etc will hardly be covert! Sound like fun though :)

I definitely hear that most everyone is recommending going with the darker color. But, I can't shake the feeling that this is just advice passed from rider to rider because it sounds good, without anyone actually having any evidence that it actually makes a difference. I admit, I am a little biased. I'd rather the brighter color, but if there is a real safety concern I will go with the green.

The extra heat was definitely something we were considering. Even our current tent with its pale grey rain fly has gotten way too toasty on days. Tarps just take up way too much space to be carrying on a RTW and you can only shade the tent with one if you happen to be surrounded by trees, which we frequently aren't... especially in places like Mongolia and Kazakhstan

My thought is that the only situations where a large orange blob would be visible from a distance but not a large green blob are when the tent's like a mile or more out in the middle of a giant *green* plain, or off against the side of a distant hill. And really, we're not going to ride a mile or more over plains that don't even have rough tracks just to stick up our tent.

But you (itchyfeet) are a perfect test case. Has being able to be spotted "from miles away" ever been a problem for you?

Have any of you heard *any* tales of someone drawing unwanted attention that would have *probably* been avoided had they had a darker color tent/vehicle? I haven't. I'm not suggesting there aren't any. I just wish I could find *some* anecdotal evidence that going with the darker color actually made a difference. That and I'm having trouble believing we're not going to be standing out regardless of the color. Big bikes (relatively), panniers, a large physical footprint (big tent, two bikes), and (in our case) a fair likelihood of dogs running around. People like DLbiten say you don't want to stand out of you can help it, and logically I agree, but has it actually been a problem for people?

Re. the tarp for the bikes. We carried very lightweight, small packing, bike covers on the last trip. We rarely used them, but when we did we were very thankful for them... not sure if anyone actually makes one for a Ural.


I wonder if color would have made much of a difference in that situation. Elephants have notoriously bad vision, and their night vision is even more limited. I guess in that particular situation a bright color would be your best hope, although I'm pretty sure in our case the dogs would start barking if an elephant got that close. I'm not sure if that's going to end up being a good thing or a bad thing in the end.


While I love the idea of a tent with a green outside and yellow inside (still doesn't address the heat issue) , the Kerron 4p is literally over 2 times as long as the Marmot Limestone 4P (without the guy lines), and the marmot has A LOT of space in it. We've fit us and the dogs in our 3 person, but there wouldn't be enough space for the riding gear too, especially when it's soaked from a long day of riding in the rain.

Also, the Kerron looks like it has terrible ventilation. I see zero mesh. Condensation with 2 humans is already a concern. Two mid-sized dogs are going to put out a tremendous amount of water vapor in the course of a night. And, you can't see out of the thing. Going to sleep seeing the stars is pretty awesome, and there have definitely been nights where we definitely didn't want the rain fly on, either because of condensation or because it was simply too damn hot, and that's without 2 dogs trying to curl against you.

Plus, I'm simply not convinced of that kind of design holding up against 40+mph winds. The metal supports only brace short-ways across the tent. There's no diagonal structural support and it looks like lengthwise you just have to hope that the stakes hold, and there are many surfaces where standard tent pegs are essentially useless.

I wouldn't entirely agree with that, depending on which tent. In the pics above for instance a tarp held taught over that tent and pegged down will create an insulating air pocket since the poles are proud of the fly?

:)

There will be no "proof" in the sense you're asking, i.e., people who can report that they were victimized because their bright orange tent was spotted. How would anyone know this? How can you compare to the opposite, i.e., people who were not victimized?

A brightly colored tent is far more visible to anyone--the "proof" is in how easily seen they are when wandering around backcountry and wilderness. Don't believe this? Go ahead and wander around; you'll spot the orange, yellow and lime green tents from miles away but have trouble making out the green and grey ones. Same reason fire trucks are the colors they are. No mystery.

Further random commentary: all tents get hot in the sun. The possible exception would be the mylar tents which used to be made by a flake named Stephanson, but they're not for you--I promise.

Hilleberg tents are tough, light, all-season tents. They don't have all that netting because you can't build an all-season tent made of netting--it will leak windblown rain and snow, and won't be tough enough to stand up to high winds. If you want an all-season tent, you'll have to forgo the views. That also means increased condensation in certain circumstances. The Hilleberg will compensate by being noticeably warmer in others. Your choice.

Of course the Hillebergs are also much lighter and far more expensive. They're quirky, too. Again, your choice.

If you buy the one you're looking at, be aware that it's a car-camping tent, not a rugged piece of equipment. This might be ok for you, or not--depending on how you want to use it. If you're determined to compare the two, you might as well know something about tent design.

A statement that you're worried the Hilleberg will not stand up to 40 mph winds, implying that the other tent will, is purest fantasy.

Hope that's helpful.

Mark

Orange is just very visible in any natural landscape whether it's rocky desert, bush whatever. So if you are wild camping you are more likely to be spotted. That doesn't mean you will be murdered in your sleeping bag but there may be times you'd prefer to be as invisible as possible whether that's because you want to stop somewhere you're not really supposed to be or you just don't want a crowd of on-lookers as you set up camp (which has happened to us plenty). In my experience (three years in Africa) it is a lot harder than you'd think to camp discreetly however remote the location seems.

But hey it's your trip and if you want a brightly coloured tent then go for it. It's not going to make or break your trip and if it cheers you up on a rainy day ...

I should put the elephant thing in context. Having spent a fair bit of time living/working in Africa that's the only occasion I've ever heard of where an elephant stood on a tent and presumably with the dogs game parks aren't going to be on your itinerary anyway.

I think you misunderstood what kind of "evidence" (not proof) I was looking for. If people were not victimized but used a brightly colored tent in many situations that would constitude anecdotal evidence in favor of a brightly colored tent. If people put up a brightly colored tent and made an effort to be away from the beaten path but still got visitors that would be evidence against them. If people put up dark colored tents away from the beaten path but still got visitors that would be evidence against them. People with dark colored tents but no unexpected visitors would, as you suggested, not be particularly indicative of either meaning.
My question is not "Will we be seen in a brightly colored tent?" My question is "Will it matter?" and "Will the sheer size of the tent and the colors of the bikes make us seen regardless of what color tent we choose?"


Below are some somewhat off topic comments about the Hilleberg vs more standard tent-design:

Good to know. For us, winter camping is the exception. Weather gets cold but if we've gone sub-freezing we've done something wrong. With that said, we can handle sub-freezing if we need to (still haven't figured the best way to let the dogs survive it yet).

I don't really believe there is any such thing as an "all-season" tent, in the same way I don't believe there is such a thing as an "all-season" motorcycle suit. If it works in sub-freezing weather it's going to suck in the tropical heat, and vice-versa. Yes, most mesh tents with a rain-fly will allow a breeze to come in up under the edges in a strong wind. We can live with this. We've used this style tent from 30deg F ( new england ) to maybe 90deg f (at night), in dry deserts and jungle with nearly 100% humidity, and the pouring rain has never been a problem for us or others with this style. We're sold on the mesh-tent + rain fly construction.

With the dogs ventilation is critical. I would guestimate that each dog produces nearly twice as much water vapor as a human in a given night. Maybe that's a bit more than reality, but they put out A LOT of moisture through breathing on warm nights.


Actually... The Hilleberg Keron is 3 ounces heavier. Although, I will give it credit that it's twice the length has an inner tent(ish) and is ONLY 3 oz heavier. That is impressive.

What makes you say that the Limestone isn't a "rugged piece of equipment" surely not the frame style. Variants on that style of construction have been used half-way up Evererst. And while I would agree that expedition grade tents are construction somewhat differently, we've experienced winds that probably gusted up to 30mph in our current (and similar) tent, and I've seen video and read reports of similar tents holding up fine in 40+ mph wind.

I've seen some videos of the Hilleberg holding up well in strong winds, but it is utterly dependent upon the guy lines to maintain its structure. A tent with cross beams like the Limestone needs guy lines to keep from blowing away yes, but it has a metal frame to help it maintain its shape against winds from multiple directions, not just from the side, which in the Hilleberg's case is also a huge surface area for the wind to hit.

I'm not suggesting that the Marmot Limestone is the perfect tent by any means. I'm willing to considered others, but this one looks good for our needs.

See, that's exactly the info I'm looking for. Do you think that a dark green tent would have any effect on preventing that "crowd of onlookers" ? Or do you think you'd have them regardless of what color tent you have? I agree about wanting to be as invisible as possible, what I'm wondering is if the battle for discreetness has been lost before we've even started. Should we just say "screw it, they're going to see us no matter what we do." ? Or do you think you actually have a chance of not being noticed with a discreet tent color?

C'mon. The Hilleberg is far stronger than your choice. I'm not basing that on the style of its construction; I'm basing it on my knowledge of tents. It's better made, of better materials, and it's designed to be strong, not to give you lots of ventilation and a view. I know other stuff as well: for example, it'll last longer in strong UV, which is important if you're going to pitch in sunlight or in the far north or far south. Does it rely on guylines? Of course it relies on guylines. That's what tents designed for extreme conditions rely on. All of them. There are reasons why this is true.

If you want a family car camping tent, which is what REI calls the one you've chosen, by all means buy one. If you want a well-ventilated tent, get a mesh one. If you want a free-standing tent, be my guest. My only point is that to compare this with a winter-worthy tent (by whatever name) is silly: it's like comparing apples to, uh, Chevy truck transmissions.

Plus, contrary to your belief, the Kerron 4 is almost two pounds lighter. The GT, which as you point out is far larger, is a few ounces heavier.

Good luck with your search.

Mark

I tend to agree with Markharf re the colour of the tent. You will find no proof
that either is better than the other than "gut feelings" of the user unless you can survey the thief, aggressor,interloper etc etc as to why they targeted you.

Common sense says a bright coloured tent will be more visible from further away therefor making any visitor to your tent, welcome or unwelcome, more likely.

So once you have decided on the tent that will stand up to the conditions you will experience in the weight range you want, your decision is then based on heat retention vs conspicuousness. Do you want a nice sleep in without sweating or maintain a low profile in situations where that would be to your advantage.

+1 for the green tent

In short I think that if all other factors were to remain constant ie how far off the road you're camped, how much noise you're making, whether you have a fire going etc etc, you will attract attention on fewer occasions with a green tent than you would with an orange tent. Just my personal opinion.

Sometimes you won't have a hope in hell of avoiding company, sometimes the chances of you being stumbled across are almost zero but for everything in between where you may be noticed or you may not then a green tent will work in your favour.

My only experience of what you seem to be asking is 5 months in Morocco in a truck camper. That could have been covered in mirrors, painted pink with red spots or been camo, you're driving into someones back yard wherever you are. They and their neighbours know you're coming well before you get there. If you were on foot, and could walk up and away from the road to a remote corner then tent colour may be influential. But for us even 100 miles from tarmac (but on piste), with no-one in sight, people would still spring up just to watch us and say hi :)

I don't know how far you will be able to get from someones back yard though!?

I read something a while ago that suggested it entirely depended on rainfall. Over a certain figure (100mm a month???) the land was worth growing something on and so was "owned" by someone. Less than that and you are more likely on your own except for nomadic grazing, but the noise and smells you make may draw someone in anyway.

During those 5 months we travelled with a couple with an Alsation for a week or so. That brought a lot of attention, but also meant no-one would come close out of fear!

I used to have a Vango Odyssey 300 (I think) which was purple, big doors both sides that could be entirely opened to a mesh door instead of sealed up. It was fab when hot because of the breeze you could let through, or seal it up when chilly. Not cheap, not pricey, lasted 9 years of a month a years use.

I now have a Hilleberg Nallo 3GT. The front door is nice and big, but you can't open the back up enough to get a through draft so is too hot when its warm. So any quality becomes secondary to its lack of comfort when warm for me. And you need pegs at each end all the time to maintain its shape, not just if a gales coming.

I'd like a better look at one of these because of the variety of ways you can use it, but one central pole might be annoying-

Shelters 3+

But I most probably would like a Mutha Hubba with both the mesh inner and the HP inner depending on the time of year the trip was, if you can buy the inners seprately. It stands with no pegs if you want. You can get a porch to add on for more space too.


Do dog claws require a tougher inner than a "lightweight" tent usually comes with?

Thanks a lot for the input itchyfeet38 and grizzly7. That's the type of feedback I was hoping for.

As for the Mutha Hubba, yeah it looks like a good choice, but we've already got a decent 3 person. Because of the dogs need the extra space or our soaked riding gear will be on top of us. ;) If it were just us again we'd happily take our REI Quarter Dome T3. It's a good tent which I'd highly recommend to anyone who needs a 3 person 3 season tent.

As for dog claws, the general consensus is that yes they can damage a lightweight tent bottom. One reason we like the Marmot Limestone 4P is that it has a bottom that's about twice the denier of most lightweight tent bottoms.

As for the earlier assertion that the Marmot is a "car camping" tent. Yes. We can't deny that, but if you look around you'll see that with *very* few exceptions ALL 4 person tents are marketed as "car camping" or "family". 1-3 person come in various flavors of "backpacker" or "expedition". 4 persons tents are "car camping" and you have to go up to 6+ before you get back into "expedition" grade and then you're talking $2,000-$5,000 tents which are typically designed for deep cold, and very extreme conditions. I don't think there's any such thing as a 6+ person "backpacking" tent, and I wouldn't want to carry the weight if there was.

So, yes, we're looking at a "car camping" tent but only because no-one seems to make a 4p tent that *isn't* marketed as a car camping tent other that Hilleberg and we're not willing to go with those because they're not free-standing, and the lack of serious ventilation would be a nightmare in the summer with the dogs. I won't go with any tent that isn't free-standing because I've done that, and it sucks when you're on rocky or sandy ground, and you generally don't get a say in what surface mother-nature has chosen to make available at your current location. ;)

I'm surprised I keep at this, but here it is. Dachary and Kay, you've got specific desires in a tent. I don't have a problem with that. As I said, if you want freestanding, or net ceiling, or heavier or larger or two doors or whatever, by all means have at it. I don't care what color you buy either. Really.

The reason I keep coming back to this thread is that you keep saying things with total assurance about tents which have little relation to reality. That, too is your right....but I seem to have some difficulty letting them slip by. For example, "no-one seems to make a 4p tent that *isn't* marketed as a car camping tent other that Hilleberg..."

This is not true. A great many tent manufacturers make four person (or larger), four season tents designed for mountaineering or winter use which sell for reasonable amounts of money. Big Agnes makes a couple, including an eight (8) person model. Black Diamond, NorthFace, and Mountain Hardware make others. All are well under a thousand dollars in the States.

None of them will suit a person who values ventilation over weather-tightness. That's the nature of tent design. I'm not quibbling over your choice of tent--I'm just pointing out that your statement about what's available is incorrect.

I will try to stay out of it from here on. Hope you enjoy your prep and your trip.

Mark

I did preface that by saying "with *very* few exceptions". I *also* stated that once you got ABOVE 4 people that they went back to having good expedition grade tends. And I noted that those were "typically designed for deep cold, and very extreme conditions".

The problem is specific to 4 person tents. I have found a grand total of one 4 person tent that is NOT a winter tent and that is not marketed as "car camping" or "family" tents.



Big Agnes promotes their 4 person tents as a "Base / Car Camping" tent with the exception of the "Soda Mountain SL 4". North Face has zero 4 person 3 season tents ("car camping" or otherwise). Black diamond makes zero. Mountain Hardware makes 1 for backpacking but it's a central pole design with no mesh, and one for "camp" ( i.e. "Base / Car Camping"). They also make the only "expedition" one I've even begun to consider, the Trango 4, but it is obviously designed with colder weather in mind as it only has mesh on the front door, and it's $800.

In short, I really have done my research. There really are almost no option for four person tents that are not designed for winter, and are not marketed as "car camping" (or equivalent). I would honestly *love* to be proven wrong on this. Admitedly I have limited myself to English language sites. I wouldn't be surprised if there's some european site in a language I don't speak offering exactly what we're hoping for.

Again, this problem is specific to 4 person tents. If we went bigger or smaller we wouldn't have it, although if we went bigger we'd have the problem of finding ones that weren't designed specifically with cold weather in mind.

I have tried to be very careful in what I've said, couching it with the appropriate qualifiers ("with *very* few exceptions"), even so, I am very confident in my statements, and it would be to the benefit of myself and others if someone can prove me wrong and provide real examples of 4 person tents that are not marketed as Base / Car Camping (or equivalent), have real quantities of mesh, and are not designed for cold weather. So far, the entire selection appears to consist of the "Soda Mountain SL 4" from Big Agnes.

I would get the color you like and that makes you happy.

There is no perfect tent. You have very special needs that aren't served by the mass market. I will admit I'm not seeing the stealth part about pitching a huge orange tent next to a motorcycle, Ural sidecar with a couple dogs running around. But that's just me. When I want stealth I tie a black silnylon tarp over my bike and bivvy after the sun sets at the back of a cemetery and leave at daybreak. Now that's stealth. Cover a bike and small tent with a black shroud and you disappear into the night. And 8'x12' silnylon compresses into nothing when packing away. Haven't been bothered yet.

I do understand the need for ventilation if you are sleeping with wet dogs in a rainstorm. You sound like committed campers. I usually stay in a cheap guest house when the weather gets nasty and the wind starts howling. I admit I can't imagine spending all day in a tent though no matter the color. I certainly can't see that tent in Patagonia or even here in the Nebraska when the winds are howling without the sides blowing in.

Hilleberg is out of my price range but my friends swear by them. They are really well made and the tent I would buy if I were living in it for months. Your needs are different. If the first tent you buy gets thrashed then you can try something different. Look at it as research and development for the betterment of Horizons unlimited future big tent travelers.

Happy travels.

Kindest regards,
John Downs

4 person tent?
 

We have the green (my 2 cents) Exped Venus 3 deluxe. Huge vestibule. They also make a 4 person, but only comes in Terra Cotta.(of Course). Sara


http://www.exped.com/exped/web/exped_homepage_na.nsf

Their Pegasus (4 person) looks like a spectacularly well designed tent. Unfortunately it looks spectacularly well designed for cold weather. Without serious mesh venting I think the breathing of two mid-sized dogs would leave us in a very muggy climate even in the best of circumstances. But, I would buy it in a heartbeat if they had a 3 season variant.

While we do love camping, I wouldn't call us "committed campers". On the last trip we spent most nights in hotels. We're just working under the belief that having two mid-sized dogs is going to make it notably harder to get hotel rooms. And even if we're wrong in that, there will be a number of nights when we'll have to camp anyway. Taking time out of the day to exercise the dogs will slow us down some, and after encountering so many places in Latin America where half of the road has been replaced with a gaping pit due to rains we will not ride at night unless we're stuck on a tiny road with no safe place to pull off (mountain on one side, cliff on the other, type places).

The link i put above is light and 4 person, although central pole so requires pegging. Go-Lite Shangri-La 5. The inner is entirely mesh, but outer vents as per a tepee at the top might not be enough? A friend had the smaller version on his mountain leader course and said it was fab in bad weather.

Outer £239.99;
type: 5 person (?) More like 4!
height: 73 inches / 1.8m
area: 90 sq. ft / 8.4 sq. m
main body weight : 30 oz / 851 g
pole weight: 13oz / 368g
stake weight: 4oz / 113g

Inner £114.99
height: 74 inches / 1.8m
area: 71 sq. ft | 6.6 sq. m
main body weight : 40 oz | 1134 g


Shangri-La 5 - Shelter
Shangri-La 5 - Nest



Or, only one left and isn't very light but

Northern Tourer by Kiwi Camping

also available here Freedom Camping, The Tent and Camping Specialists

mega vestibule venus 3
 

There is room a plenty in the " space sensation" for the dogs in the vestibule. We can sit in there on chairs.


A tour of the Exped Venus III DLX Plus - YouTube

have you looked at Alpkit?
Tents and shelter - Alpkit

Go for a nice bright tent.

I holed up down a track one day in my camo tent

ended up sleepwalking

never did find it !:oops2:

Apologies if this is slightly off topic ... but if you two are on bikes how do your dogs travel?

Through the magic of Russian Technology, otherwise known as a Ural.

Back to the topic of tents.

We decided to go with the Marmot Limestone 4P, and while we were planning on going with the green, we went home with the orange. Here's why we chose what we did (i'll cover color last):

Ventillation: It's got plenty of mesh, but the bottom edge of the entire thing has solid material, which means that on cold nights we won't have to worry about a breezing coming up under the tent fly nearly as much. Also, this particular tents tent-fly is supposed to be pretty flush with the ground. On the downside, the rain fly has poor ventilation, but for reasons we can't explain ALL the 3 season 4 person tents have crappy ventilation on their rain flys. We'll obviously let you guys know how it fares when we actually get out there in harsh conditions.

Construction: it's got a 150 denier floor which is atypically high for a tent floor. This shouldn't be much of a concern to most of you, but should definitely help it resist dog claws. The horizontal cross-beams should give it additional strength in higher winds. On the other hand, it's five feet tall at the peak, which means it'll catch more wind. The fact that it isn't entirely mesh should provide a little bit more resilience in the construction. Maybe that last bit is a pipe dream...

Interior space: The extra height is going to make it much more livable over the long-term, considering how many nights we plan on spending in the thing. You can stand up and pull on your pants (bent over yes, but still). Physical floor space is almost exactly 4 mats worth. We figure we take up 2 mats worth, the dogs take up one (when they spread out on warm nights) and wet gear will take up the other. (Instead of measuring floor space in Tatami mats like the Japanese, we measure it in exped mats). The Marmot Limestone 4P seems to be a good compromise when it comes to footprint vs height.

Real-life interaction: We were actually able to see this tent in person. This was a big deal for us. We find we have very little ability to judge the real size of a tent from the pictures and stats online. We pondered the Big Agnes, Big House until I saw a video of it wherein I discovered that the thing is [i]freaking enormous[i]. It gave us both peace of mind to have actually seen the thing set up in front of us before we purchased it. We're very thankful to REI for letting one of their guys clear a space in the back of the store to let us set it up before buying it.

Color: Logically you guys had us convinced to go with the green, but in the end we decided against it for a few reasons. The first being that when we saw it in person, we just liked it in orange. The orange makes us happier. And these adventures are all about being happy. The fact that they didn't have green in the store, and they had gone out of their way to let us set it up just made going with orange easier. ;) But, as we were leaving Tobi's comment was echoing through our head and we came up with a real-world situation where we believe green would be a far worse choice.

Tobi said:

We imagined ourselves riding through Colombia again, only this time hidey-camping. Now, we love Colombia, and can't recommend it enough, but there's no denying that the military has a problem with drug smugglers, and is everywhere as a result. We imagined what would happen if some military guys went driving by and caught a glimpse of an army-green tent nestled in some trees in the distance, especially if we'd managed to conceal the bikes behind it. Bad Things (TM) is what.

I think it is reasonable to believe that they would go on alert, and as they approached the tent their ever present machine guns would be aimed in our direction. Now, compare this to what would happen if they caught a glimpse of some bright-orange tent in the distance. They may still check it out, but we think it's far more likely that they would be approaching it with a "WTF?" mindset than an "Oh Crap! Drug smugglers!" mindset. And when they notice the bikes they'll know exactly what's going on "Touristas!" They may still wake us up, or call us out, but the encounter will be very different, and involve far less adrenaline.

So, thank you Tobi.

We believe that in *most* circumstances we're going to be noticed regardless of what tent we choose. We think that with a bright orange tent people are going to presume that we're harmless campers / tourists. We also believe that, in general, people are good wherever you go. There are, of course, exceptions, but there's not a lot you can do about them.


Now, would we recommend the Limestone 4P for you guys? Probably not. In fact, definitely not for most of you. The Limestone 4P does not pack small. It is almost twice the size of the REI Half Dome 4 when packet. If we weren't taking a Ural I think it would have taken a lot of convincing to get me to take something that does such a poor job of packing up small. As it is, I intend on adding some cinch straps to the bag to compress it. At 11 pounds, 12 ounces t's also not light. Going with the half-dome would have saved us nearly three pounds.

I also wouldn't suggest it because most of you aren't going to be living out of your tents as much as we think we will. Hotels are great things. Running water is a great thing, and in much of the world hotels are really quite affordable (if you're not picky). If you're not going to be living out of your tent almost every day then you honestly don't need the extra space. Our Quarter Dome T3 is a great tent for 2 people and their gear. The selection, and variety, amongst 2 and 3 person tents is an order of magnitude better than the selection for four person tents. You're also going to find ones that will hold up much better in severe conditions.

It seems that everything in motorcycle adventuring involves a certain amount of compromise. You get this, but you have to give up that. This tent choice has been no different.

Also, thank you, to everyone who contributed their opinions to this thread. We really paid attention, and considered all your words as we made this purchase. If we've made the "wrong" decision, we've at least done it with our eyes open.

So, thanks.

-K

I have a bright orange Vango Force 10 MkIV and it is highly visible against the Scottish moorland landscape - from more than a mile away.

Orange also gets quite warm as soon as the sun makes an appearance.

My choice now has been to buy Hilleberg Keron GT tent with a decent sized porch (for wet biking gear) and in green. Unfortunately, the Hilleberg green is a bottle green and as such it doesn't exactly match the environment. Hilleberg also do a sand coloured tent and that would be far better for blending in to the environment.

You can also use a tarp over the tent with an air space in between tarp & tent and this will protect the tent from UV rays, make it much cooler and break up the shape of the tent. But adds weight of course. Likewise a tarp could be used to cover the bikes and break up their shape. Certainly for wild camping I would be aiming to be as unobtrusive as possible.

I think an olive green would be the ideal colour for a tent rather than bottle green.

The Hilleberg tents are 4 season and one characteristic of 4 season is the ability to have non mesh fabric flaps, which cover the built in mesh ventilation panels in the winter to make the tent warmer. Hilleberg do do some mesh tents (Nallo, Akto, Unna, etc.) so maybe if you really want one for a Keron you can talk directly to Hilleberg to see if that is possible.

Grey Beard

I have a tent that has a silver fly so I only blend in if I camp in front of a shed.
Have had this tent for 15yrs and tell myself that when it wears out will get one to blend in with the surroundings. It has not happened yet.
Dam cheap tents.
So I went and bought a hikers fly in dark green, it means that I can use it to cover the tent and gives me a area to sit and cook in the shade. the fly is made of nylon and is waterproof which gives some blending in with the surroundings, and is good for emergancy cover in rain.
Made some poles so it can also be free standing. for working on the bike if there is a problem and its going to take some time to fix. (cause here there are places with no trees to attach it to.)
The Fly weighs a few grams and packs up small about the size of soft ball.
Area it covers is 12' x 8' the army Hooch l have weighs three times as much.
I have found that blending in is hard when you turn up in the middle of no where on a motorbike and you can be heard from a mile away.
Look at hikers flys rather than Tarps l have found them cheap and they work well
Safe travels

My own conclusion is that color does not matter on an RTW trip. Either people will know you are there anyways (you stick out as you arrive at the very least) or you are so far away from people that they won't see you no matter what color the tent is. Better to just find a friendly local and ask to setup your tent on their land in an out of the way location.

another issue is not just the colour, but all the bloomin reflective bits they put on them nowadays. Great at a rally when you've had a few to many drinks and are trying to find it in a field, not not when vehicles with headlights are passing by.

I'm going to gaffa tape and colour in with a pen , and re-sew tabs on mine.

I had a tent with a yellow rainfly before. The amount of bugs attracted to the fly during the summer was astonishing. I could have caught my dinner by collecting the bugs and insects from the fly, I hear that they are rich in protein. :)

It should be obvious if you have an orange or bright yellow tent, anyone driving by is far more likely to notice it than if your tent has subdued colours. I often wildcamp alone close to roads but hopefully out of the way. Sometimes I would rather any passer by not notice me. Not everyone is a good guy. If I want company I use a campsite. If I want comfort I use an hotel.