Goretex Vs waterproof oversuit
 

Just wondering what real RTW riders do? Do you go for the goretex (or similar) lined jacket for waterproofing, or do you wear a non-waterproof jacket and pack a separate plastic waterproof overjacket?

I've not done an RTW trip, but I have done a fair amount of touring over the past few years, and I think either solution has its pros and cons. I could probably list 20 pros and cons for each, but here are the two biggest pros in my opinion...

Goretex - saves you from stop/start rain. Consistently wet riding days and consistently dry riding days are easy to prepare for... but in reality, what you get most often is rain that comes and goes every 20 minutes. In a hot climate, that can be pretty horrible as pulling over every 20 minutes to pull on or remove hot, sticky, plastic waterproofs isn't much fun. What seems to happen most often is that you time it badly, assume the rain is only going to last 5 minutes, and then by the time you realize it's going to continue you're already soaked through. With a Goretex jacket, you're already wearing your waterproofs... just reach down to zip up any vents you've got open, and job done.

Waterproof oversuit - one big big advantage here: as your riding jacket no longer has to be waterproof, it can be a mesh airflow jacket. This helps keep you comfortable on very hot days. Ultimately, no matter how good the vents on your Goretex jacket are, they're not going to flow air like a jacket where most of the construction is mesh.

For that reason, I tend to go with the mesh jacket + waterproof oversuit combo as my theory is this (coupled with a few thermal layers) gives me the greatest range of temperatures I can comfortably ride in. Then I just live with the annoyance of repeatedly pulling over to pull waterproofs on and off in stop/start rain.

But I was just wondering what other riders who have done big RTW trips think is best? I suppose the other thing to consider with RTW trips is that showing up in an African village in a tatty mesh jacket and kevlar jeans makes you look less like you've just landed from Mars than showing up in a big silver Goretex Klim/Rukka/BMW adventure suit!

I have a RST Pro-Adventure suit which is a 3 in 1 (quilt inner, waterproof inner) that has meshed panels which you can un-zip to open. The suit (non goretex) will suffice for on/off rain and serves me well but whenever I am travelling away from home I always carry an all in one rubber rain suit and goretex over mitts, anyone can get wet and cold the art is to stay warm and dry! I even wore my rain suit when is wasn't raining as it is also great for keeping the wind off.
On my recent trip in the Balkans I used all of the set ups including opening the meshed vents and all worked well

Wayne

Good comments and solutions! :thumbup1:
Keep in mind there is really nothing "like" GoreTex. Others claim to be breathable ... and to a certain extent they may be. But not as good as GoreTex, which not only breathe better but is likely more waterproof too. Excellent quality and tested before they get the GoreTex logo.

GoreTex comes mostly on VERY high end garments ... so it's likely if you have GoreTex then you've got a really good outfit no matter what.

Is it worth it? Maybe. :innocent: In cold weather with lots of rain I feel it might be. But GoreTex garments are very very expensive.

Keep in mind, in super hot weather GoreTex will boil you just like any other so called "breathable"fabric. GoreTex was designed originally for Winter use, not Summer. It breaths but can't handle that kind of HEAT and SWEAT produced in
Super HOT humid weather.

Another problem with Mr. Gore's fabrics is when they get dirty or "oily" they are no longer watertight. Must be kept pretty clean. Never change your oil or a tire in your $1200 Gore Tex jacket. doh

I like the comments on Mesh. Mesh is, IMO, the way in heat & humidity with ON-OFF rain. If you get wet ... no worries, once it stops you'll be dry in 10 minutes riding in heat. :D

My main riding jacket is fairly waterproof, breaths fairly well, but even so,
I carry a good quality lite rain jacket to go over top ... in case it really pours.

As mentioned above, a rain jacket also can save you in COLD .... adding that layer really helps cut wind/cold. Same for pants. I usually ride in Leather pants (treated so fairly waterproof) but I slip on my rain pants when it starts coming down. This especially in COLD, WET situation.

In heat I don't care if I get wet. Things dry so fast. I also have mesh pants for super heat but have to stow the leathers, which is a pain. But in COLD or a crash, nothing is better than leather, the original breathable "fabric". :thumbup1:

Since I ride mostly in warmer weather I would not get GoreTex. But if doing LOTS of cold, wet riding, I would certainly consider GoreTex. I once had a Spidi GoreTex jacket, one of the best I ever used.

So many good Euro brands like Rukka, BMW and others. Klim (USA) seems to be the super flavor of the month. Way overpriced and trendy for my liking. My First Gear stuff is cheap and cheerful, gets the job done ... although the Klim hot weather pants are good. (used them) The $1400 jacket is, IMO, over the top$$$$$.

Half the battle will be garments you use to combine with jacket and pants. Knowing how to layer, when to go to Mesh and open the vents and when to really layer up to survive cold, is what it's really all about.

GoreTex or no ... one can make it work with decent Garments (Not super expensive) and some careful mixing of ancillary items, good planning and execution. bier

I'm North European based, so get quite a bit of mixed riding conditions. Here in France it can get very wet/ very cold and also very hot. It took a bit of time to get the clothing mix right for my usual trips and I've tried most combinations, but one constant in all trials has been my Rukka Goretex Jacket. Expensive?? not when you amortize the cost over the years of faithful service you get from buying quality products. My jacket is now 12 years old and is just beginning to look ''run -in''. The colour is fading a bit, but the material, armour, all the poppers, zips etc are in excellent condition. It's also been a long way and in all weathers. I wash it with nik wax twice a year and its never leaked. Like Molly Dog, I wear leather pants, much more comfortable than textile ones, and carry a pair of overtrousers for the really wet occasion. I've tried a ''boil in the bag'' over suit, but they are just too cumbersome ( both to wear and pack) and are a pain to get on easily. If it's really *issing down, I just stop and shelter, it's easily done in Europe as you're never too far away from something suitable, and I don't ride when it's like that anyway it's too damn dangerous. To keep cool, easy, I take out the jacket liner. To stay warm, best solution IMHO is a heated vest, I never go anywhere without it on the bike and you can wear it as one of your layers without plugging it in if it's not cold. My big bugbear is gloves, never found anything that doesn't leak.

Experiment and do what suits you best. My style and area of travel is probably totally different to yours, and i 've not done an RTW either. But I have been in Western Isles of Scotland where it's hammered down for 5 days solid and found my combo worked for me with judicious stopping when it was really bad.( Met some interesting people at the same time).

I don't think I've ever owned a Goretex bike jacket - mainly because I've been pretty ambivalent about them as walking / hiking jackets. If they are significantly better than the boil in the bag types I've been too obtuse to notice, and, as they do carry a price premium, I'd need to feel I was getting something for my money.

I've done my fair share of freezing, roasting and drowning on a bike and I've yet to find one set of clothing that'll cope with all of this without assistance from the bike in the form of either electrical energy or protection via a screen or fairing (or both). Part of the problem is that I tend to be inconsistent. For my last hot weather ride I dumped the leather trousers and rode in jeans. For the one before that I used them all the time.

Being based in the UK, dealing with hot weather tends to be a novelty and the usual response (mine anyway) is just to remove some of the cold weather clothing rather than looking at it as a climatic condition needing a considered solution. It's always seemed like a bit of an indulgence to spend (many) hundreds of pounds to cope with the typical "three fine days and a thunderstorm" British summer. Just switch off the heated jacket and put up with it.

For many, whose horizons don't seem to extend much further than these shores, "putting up with it" seems to have gained an almost moral aspect where the protective (as in falling off) aspect of "all of the gear all of the time" is pre-eminent over the climatic one. You could just about get away with that in the UK but it doesn't really work further south (IMHO of course).

Aha! That's what I like about forums, you usually get a full range of views... and this topic is no exception!

Mollydog
I agree with everything you said there. That is basically exactly my approach to riding gear on long trips too.

Wayne
Your approach sounds similar, it's still layering up and down to add/remove waterproofing. It's just that your layer came with the jacket as a liner. Personally, I've always found zip-in liners to be too much hassle to zip in and take out in comparison to just wearing a separate thermal fleece as my insulating layer, and separate waterproof oversuit... but it's still basically the same principle.

Pongo
Now, your reply I find especially interesting! :) I actually have a Rukka Goretex jacket, that I used mainly for winter commuting back when I was in the UK. It's one of their cheaper ones, but it is still Goretex with no venting like most of their jackets. Excellent waterproof winter jacket, but I wouldn't dream of taking it on a long trip where I was going to encounter a range of temperature because it has zero venting.

I also have a Rukka 'AiRider' jacket, which is basically a fancy mesh jacket... lots of airflow, no waterproofing. I take this as my mixed weather touring jacket, adding a waterproof oversuit when it rains or gets cold enough that I want to block airflow. I've ridden in temperatures above 40C (104F) in the US, and almost that high in Italy wearing mesh and I'd say between 30-40C (86-104F), in mesh, life is still pretty uncomfortable but tolerable. Above 40C, life sucks whatever you're wearing in my opinion... some riders strip down to just a t-shirt, some take the more scientific approach that if the air is that hot you're actually better off blocking it with a windproof layer, some try a cooling vest. I've tried all of these approaches at various points. The reality: it's too hot to be comfortable riding whatever you do. All you can do is tolerate it, pull in for regular breaks somewhere air conditioned or at least in the shade, drink plenty of fluids.

But in that 30-40C range, I can't imagine being nearly as comfortable in my unvented Rukka Goretex jacket as I am in my mesh jacket. Out of interest, how high a temperature have you ridden in wearing the Rukka jacket?

Now, something like the Klim Badlands interests me slightly, as it is Goretex that has a lot of venting... I've never owned something like that, so I'm wondering whether anyone uses a Goretex jacket with a lot of venting as a compromise when doing RTW trips, or whether it's still way hotter to wear than a mesh jacket?

backofbeyond
Haha... absolutely. As a Brit who is now living (temporarily) in the USA, I hear you! My approach to 'hot weather' riding days back home was similar to you, where I generally just marveled at the novelty of feeling overly warm on the bike, and got myself a cold drink when I pulled in for a bacon sandwich rather than a cup of tea!

Since living in America though I now realize there's a whole world of hot weather up and above anything I previously considered a little toasty! :)

I have a RST Pro adventure suit and after 7 hours of Amazonian rain it certainly wasn't all that waterproof. The locals around here seem to have plastic ponchos that are easily to put on/off, so I was thinking about one too as even though it's super warm down down here getting soaking wet isn't comfortable at all.

Interesting how riders all have a different idea on what to wear. I think it is great that so many think about what we wear for weather protection, I believe we should also look at crash protection.
I live in Australia and in the last 12 months have spent 2 weeks in Tasmania, 3 months in the UK and Europe (two up and camping), and very luckily 3 weeks in South America. What do I wear, a cheep as in A$300 (A$196 on special later) Triumph brand jacket, this is a TriTex waterproof jacket etc etc with armour and no vents. I have worn this jacket in plus 43C down to minus 14C, it handled it all very well. I have a very different view to hot weather riding, I have worn this jacket for days on end in temperatures of 40 degrees C plus, sure I sweat a bit but that is how the body cools itself, I just crack the zip to let in a small breeze and as the sweat is evaporated it cools my body. On the other hand I believe if you have all the vents open (or god forbid only a T shirt) the body does not have the ability to sweat enough to cool itself. You arrive very dehydrated with the possibility of wind burn which just makes you feel very hot. As for pants, have tried all the usual motorcycle ones and found them to be clumsy, hard to pack and just heavy. My wife and I wear Dragon Jeans, we are on our second pair, they give you good crash protection, are comfortable, look good and are easy to pack when traveling by air. If the weather is ok we just wear the Dragon Jeans, if wet put on thin water proof pants and if cold we have the thermals. Gloves, as someone else said, they all leak, the best thing since sliced bread is hand guards and heated grips. To finish of what we wear, good quality boots and flip up helmets. All the above is easy to pack, gives good weather and crash protection and above all is comfortable.
Anthony

Easily removable layers.

How much of a PITA is it to remove thermal and waterproof liners out of a riding suit ??? A big one.

It depends where you're riding though. If you're in a constant temperature then leaving your waterproof liner in your jacket isn't a big deal.

If it's hot then having your liners in is paramount to torture and in some places rain comes and goes every 20 minutes making it just annoying.

A two piece rain suit is best in my opinion. It gives you flexibility and is easy to remove or fit in a hurry and is easily stuffed somewhere in close reach.

Getting in and out of gear has not been mentioned much until Ted's comments above. Kind of a big deal, IMO. It really can throw riders off their game. :thumbdown:

I just found out ... again ... how big this can be. If you ride everyday, constantly, pretty much year round, then you get used to going through all the moves of prepping and doing pre ride stuff: changing gear, adding/subtracting layers, getting correct gloves on, donning rain gear. All becomes routine and pretty easy after months of practice.

But if you're not used to doing it ... I think we can get "out of sync" with it and it becomes more difficult.

IE: This morning I got on my bike in rain for 1st time this Winter. I got everything wrong. I was rushed. (bad idea) Been a month since I was even on the bike (big house projects going on) and ages since riding in rain.

It was like I forgot how. :( It was also COLD (40F, cold for Northern California anyway, light jacket weather for some!)

My gloves were wrong (Summer, vented), wearing Jeans, thinking it wasn't raining that hard (it was). Fogging shield (did not take time to treat it before). Result? Wet gloves, wet jeans, Cold, fogging shield. Misery ... but it gets worse.

Since I was just doing errands I didn't even have my rain gear in my tail bag. Ages since I needed it. I normally Always have it on board. Not this day. (lots of reasons why not!)

Mentally I was totally discom-bubaluated by all this ... so much so that it affected my riding. Distracted. Not focused. :helpsmilie:
I caught this in time and was able to block out the rain and COLD and focus on RIDING smooth.

Finally got around fine and after 3 hours getting on/off the bike 10 times, doing all kinds of errands ... I finally started to get into the head space to handle the rain, adjust the gear, flip on heated grips and be a bit more comfortable ... and ride BETTER. (most important thing!)

So ... the more you ride (everyday is best) the easier it will be to deal with gear changes, weather challenges and re-learn how to be comfortable on the bike ... and to RIDE SAFE and WELL no matter how crazy things get.

:scooter:

I bought an expensive Goretex Jacked but scince i allways get wet in the ellbows, knees and bottom i wear waterproof oversuits above it...

Haha... Mollydog, after commuting to work wearing kevlar jeans in freezing temperatures the other day, I hear you :)

So here's the thing for me... when I get back from a long multi-day trip I start reflecting on my gear. What worked, what annoyed me, is there anything out there on the market that would be better? Yes, this probably means I need to get a life, but it's what I do.

Why? Because it's the little annoyances that tend to ruin a ride for me. If something is uncomfortable, or a pain in the ass to attach, or keeps coming loose... those are the things that take my mind off the ride. I'm also prepared to spend money on high-end gear if I think it'll be worth it... I know that's not the cool thing to say, and you sound like much more of an adventurer if you go around the world wearing a jacket you bought from a homeless person for a sandwich and pack of playing cards, but hey. If supreme riding comfort comes with a 'Klim' logo on it, and I look like an uncool rich kid for wearing it, I can live with that :)

So every now and then I look at something like a Klim suit and say... maybe. No more thinking "hmm... is this a light shower, or is it going to actually rain?" as I ride along. No more pulling into a gas station, when I'm already fairly soaked through and hopping around like a mad man trying to pull waterproofs over boots. No more riding 5 minutes up the road, finding the rain has stopped after all, repeating the same crazy hopping thing in reverse at the next gas station.

I mean, that's the holy grail isn't it? A jacket that is 100% waterproof without needing a separate liner, but is also cool enough in extremely hot weather. If I thought something like a Klim jacket really did offer all that, then I have no problem spending crazy sums of money to get it.

But my belief is that this is really just snake oil, and actually the fact will always remain that a jacket that is waterproof is too hot in the summer. So until I'm convinced of anything different, I'll stick to my mesh jacket and separate waterproofs combo... even though the next time I'm hopping around trying to get into my waterproofs, I'll probably be thinking "surely there is a better way??" again :)

Gear will always be a compromise for the hottest and coldest/wettest days.

I have wrestled with one piece rainsuits back in Europe and will never own anything one piece again, such a PITA to put on and take off over riding gear.

I am currently using a BMW Rallye 3 jacket and either BMW City pants (heavy denim with good armour which I wore in South America with Gore-Tex rain pants) or Klim Traverse pants which are Gore-Tex.

The Rallye jacket has a zip in Gore-Tex liner, but to be honest its a waste of time, BMW missed the boat and instead of making a nice zip in jacket with hand warmer pockets and branding on it, they have a plain insert with no external pockets or roll away hood. Why would I bother faffing around with this when I can wear my Mountain Equipment Paclite jacket with lots of external pockets and a roll away hood? - which is much more practical than the liner on or off the bike, it also fits outside or inside the Rallye jacket. The Rallye jacket is good, plenty of air vents, pockets and a hydration bladder pocket built in, I prefer this to wearing a separate hydration pack personally, it is quite a heavy jacket though (it has full back armour) and when its 42C and you stop in the sun at some lights for a few minutes you still cook.

I wore the Klim Traverse pants this Summer on the TCAT sections in BC, we had temperatures of 37C or more, hot and bloody dusty, they are never going to vent like a mesh pant, but with the front thigh vents and rear 'exhaust' vents open they do vent surprisingly well, you can get some good airflow over your Femoral arteries, which does help to cool you off, lower leg ventilation is non existent, but if you are wearing motocross or fairly high leg boots then its fairly pointless anyway. When it was cold or raining, zip those vents up and they were totally windproof and dry, I was fairly impressed with them overall. I just wore some swimming shorts under these for the whole trip, which was handy at lakeside lunch stops, go for a dip in the cool lake, put the riding pants back on with wet shorts underneath and enjoy being cool for an hour or so whilst riding in the afternoon.

Separate Gore-Tex waterproofs which can be worn off the bike (for hiking and camping) and well ventilated riding gear are the way to go, but having a pair of Klim or similar Gore-Tex pants in the closet are a good option occasionally.

SNAKE OIL! :thumbup1: Agreed. There are many easy and cheap tricks to get round most of the problems we run into. Experience teaches best. No $2000 Klim jacket is a panacea for all conditions. Top line gear is wonderful stuff ... but many less expensive garments can do the job too ... if you know how to use them and how to combine other things with them to optimize effectiveness.

Most riders ride & travel in Summer in warm environments. So HEAT tends to be an important concern. To sit and be Par Boiled in a non vented suit is dangerous. No need for that.

While it's true sweating is good (to a point) you also need enough cooling air flow to make that sweat work for you. With Mesh gear you CAN get dehydrated and never know it ... so always drink plenty of water in super hot conditions. That massive air flow Mesh provides does suck a lot of moisture right out of you ... so be aware. Hydrate!

Constantly sweating is good but if you get too hot ... you can get heat stroke and pass out. Soaking down garments, helmet, T shirt, neck scarf, cooling vest, can all help cool your core some.

But constant small sips of water is the way to survive. Staying covered is important, not like the Harley guys riding across the Desert in 100F temps in Tank Top and Nazi helmet. Direct Sun on skin not good. Seem obvious, right? :innocent:

bier