Steering Dampers
 

I've posted this before (with no response) but has anyone fitted a steering damper to a GSPD?
There are some excellent looking ones for a host of dirt bikes but can they be made to fit? The reason is to improve the bikes awful performance in sand.

Tim,
Not having ridden the said motorcycle in sand, what is wrong with it ? I would be suprised if a damper would help.

BMW dirt riding tutorial
 

it's scary but is the best method. Momentum is your ally!

I have tried a R100 with steering-damper. Personally I didn’t see much difference but the bike had awful suspension so I’m not sure how valid the test was.

As Mollydog said you should look far ahead and keep speed up.
You should allow the bike to move freely under you. It will get where you are looking so don’t worry when the handlebar is moving in odd directions.

Keep suspension-setting soft. Rear suspension is also important because if it is to stiff your front wheel will be pushed down in the sand when the rear hits something.

My impression is that driving technique is far more important then a steering-damper. To look far ahead can’t be stressed enough.
On the other hand it wouldn’t hurt to install one, so if you fancy modifications…

http://www.actiontouring.com/pic/01_ALG_0010.jpg

http://www.actiontouring.com/pic/n2.jpg

http://www.actiontouring.com/pic/n3.jpg


Most important, have fun :thumbup1:

If you don’t reach the top first time…..
http://www.actiontouring.com/pic/alg_stuck.jpg


…. gain more speed:
http://www.actiontouring.com/pic/alg_speed.jpg

Sorry but I feel I need to say this, it makes the posts much more enjoyable when the pics are there. Before anybody says anything i'm not trying to be a pain in the arse or add " oh nice pics" etc because we all hate that and it just cloggs up a thead.

Sorry again

Without PS you cannot see the mountains.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mollydog (Post 224946) Yes, those are nice pics Ali and nice photo shop work cleaning them up!

Thanks for comments of the pics. The pics are scanned from Velvia 50 and together with the African sun it didn’t need much retouch (Levels and sharpening). The first one is a bit modified, because it’s taken directly after sunrise with limited light.

But back to old GSes, this time with digital camera:



http://www.actiontouring.com/pic/YngveLite.jpg


Split second bedore a crash:
http://www.actiontouring.com/pic/YngveTre.jpg


Back to driving in sand, without a damper. How hard can it be. It’s only downhill…

http://www.actiontouring.com/pic/TrondNed.jpg

My R80/7 did not have a steeringdamper. I got hold of one and tested. The difference was immence. My bikes all have steeringdampers ever since.

I would recommend you to test. The installation is simple. The needed parts are not that expensive at the scrapyards. If you like the performance difference you can always swapp the BMW damper for something better.

You will need to see to that the adjusting knobb is easilly accessible though... in tricky terrain you will want to disengage the damping to enhance swiftness in frontwheel turning, and on transport stretches (autobahn/freeway) you may find that the hardest damping gives the best tracking -;)

Steering dampers
 

Thanks for the response, guys. Absolutely stunning pictures, I'm amazed you can take a beemer thru sand dunes. I'll have to practice a bit more using a higher speed. The bike starts to slow and then the bars are almost wrenched out of my grip, it's as though the bike wants to go it's own way. It's at that point you fall over. Anyway, I'll carry on with fitting some sort of damper and let everyone know. Thanks again.

Hi DC,
are you talking about shock absorber type hydraulic dampers here? If so, what sort of length. There are lots of cheapo dampers available for testing... but what size - length/diameter?

I would like to look into this after being high-sided on desert roads!

John

Don't fight!
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Wood (Post 225169) I'll have to practice a bit more using a higher speed. The bike starts to slow and then the bars are almost wrenched out of my grip, it's as though the bike wants to go it's own way.

There’s no point fighting the bars, it’s one of the battle you can’t win. Hold them loosely and let them do whatever they like. As long as the speed is right you’ll get to the point you are looking.

I'll look up the damper size/measures - it may take some time though; so if I forget - remind me!

As for wrenching out of hand... a damper would help, a lot. But by the description it does sound more like a steeringhead rollerbearing adjustment or wear problem to me...
When you hit sand I guess it will be like hitting a "heap of snow" blown across the road - the snow will grip the frontwheel and do just about what it wants to the bike; there is no way one will be able to hold on... a damper at full damping does have a significant effect here making it just about possible to hold on if the speed is not too high when hitting the snow-"drift(?)".

The wobbel that occurs when one is dropping speed over loose snow is awfull - is that the kind of problem one have on sand too? If so - a damper will help and perhaps even eliminate the problem; however... on sand you are hardly likely to have skiis mounted on the bike are you... -;) The load one puts on the skiis ease off the negative load on the fronwheel effectively softening the wobbel, and if that is not enough one moves backwards on the seat as far as one can get (still staning on the skiis) that usually ends deep-snow induced wobbel.

A properly set steeringhead roller bearing will minimize the wobbling /7 frame. I did have all sized up (rusted) rollers... so using chain-lubrication I got them "gliding"... back then I would get wobbel from the white lane separations... (much amuzing to me but horrific to anyone driving behind me).

A worn bear will also cause problems like inducing wobbel...

Then you have the forks... if they start to bend a bit more, ever so littel, than what they were designed for... wobbel.
If you put in stronger springs (like I have K75 springs with 11cm spacer) it too will make the forks unstable...

Then you have the flexibility of the frame - later /7 models looks reinforced to me, but not enough. Luiftmeister did present a lot of neat ideas on where and how to strengthen the /7 frame (street bikes though).

All in all - there are many parts to wringing the handlebar out of ones hands :wave:
:detective:

Reminder:thumbup1:

John

The 100GS's are fitted with forks that I would not really call spindling little fork tubes. The stanchion diameter is 40mm and travel is 225mm.
You might be referring to the 80G/S forks which were borrowed from the road models and were 36mm forks. Besides the fact though, a fork brace will always add stiffness and be a bonus if fitted.

Steering dampers does have a negative influence when doing slow technical riding even when set on the softest adjustment. Riding sand a damper will help nothing and might even make things more tricky when you need to counter steer when the front start to wash out in the sand.
The only time that a damper will really be an aid is when you ride fast on rutted tracks where you cross the ruts at right angles or when you have many deep cross tracks in the sand. Hitting this or aggressive washboard at high speed can tent to shake the steering clear of your grip and in these circumstances a steering damper is invaluable and reduces rider fatigue.

Sand riding is all about technique and practice and a steering damper is not going to help making you a good sand rider.

If you still would like to fit a damper I would recommend a Scott or Ohlins and if I can help with the design of the dampar mount and tower.

I disagree regards dampers and sand riding.

Here's a link to a replacement top triple clamp for para GS's that include the ability to add a steering damper... and it's inexpensive as well! $150

Guy's stuff is first class, and he provides great service as well.

New Style Top Triple for Airhead GS - ADVrider

This guy also makes replacment odomoter reset buttons and re-mans BMW driveshafts with circlipped ujoints and three choices of urathane dampers...

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...e/DSCN3287.jpg

Proven this weekend, steering damper makes sand riding harder even when set at the softest setting.
Look at this thread on the South African Wild Dogs forum - Sand Riding Orgy and a visit to the Quarry - and yes that is me sitting flat on my ass next to the HPN. Instead of accelerating to get the front up I was slowing down on this very steep and sneaky dune and the front bottomed out completely when hitting the foot of this little dune. Send me flying and it took a while before I could get up again. Damper was useless to save the tank slapper that followed but I guest for this it would have needed to be on the hardest setting.
The sand road leading to the dunes is the toughest and here I find that the damper delays the counter steering so vital to surviving in the sand enough to make you topple over often.
Once at speed the bike is more than stable enough to stay in a straight line and steering is done by shifting your weight to the outside foot peg. It's like surfing a wave.

Steering damper kit
 

I've ordered a damper kit from Guy at Hendersen Precision Mfg. (see above picture) Very fast response to questions. The total cost is US$734 (not including postage) and includes a new machined top triple, the Scott damper, the damper mount, and an adapter for the original bars.

Once it's installed, I'll post on it's performance. (He also does lots of new parts for Indians.)

Please do !!!

Steering Damper
 

I have now fitted Guy Henderson's kit to my PD. Beautifully made and it all fits so well. Only took about 2 hours to fit.
Initial impressions: It's raised the bars about 2" higher than standard but it feels really comfortable (I ordered the split sleeve adaptors so I could retain the original bars). The bars are now also mounted with 4 rubber cones which has removed any vibration at the grips. It has made no difference on the road (as one would expect) unless I adjust it to it's max settings when the bike feels steadier and "firmer" - although that makes it a bit difficult to turn in the carpark.

I'll leave it here for about a month or so and report back my impressions off the tarmac together with pictures.

I look forward to that!

Damper experience
 

Well, I've had the damper for some time now. I've found on sealed roads it imparts a definite feeling of stability, but on dirt I'm not too sure if there's any benefit. While recently riding on wet dirt (greasy) I had the damping on max and when I got into one of those awful snaking series of S shaped heart stopping moments, I found the extra damping was almost too much. It restricted (obviously) the speed at which I could correct the steering. I did have a road tire on the front though. My riding colleagues were much faster than I (of advanced years) so maybe it just comes down to technique? Maybe I haven't watched enough Charlie and Ewan?