And your Jap bikes aren't sold on marketng? Do Japanese companies make money and living out of thin air then? I'd say wake up and :welcome: to the marketing world mate. If BMW makes marketing better than Japs in big trailies and tourers sector, doesn't mean much. Japs make lightyears better marketing in scooters, sportsbikes and cruisers for ages to sell crap loads of bikes into the market. It's called pure marketing, and IMHO in overall picture Japanese do better marketing than BMW ever did (hence the overall sales numbers).

The only non-marketing bikes (or close to it) are self hand-built bikes built speciefically for the owners themselves, not for other people. Anything involved in the factory production made for loads of people is a pure marketing nowadays. Period.

OT Marketing
 

Different OEM's have different strategies. Some are more dangerous than others. Claims of speed and fun are relative, style be it Italian curves or Harley chrome is subjective. BMW's claims of premium brand status and allusions to longevity and reliability can be disproven by a few (perhaps spurious) figures. Their lack of marketing skill at one level brings in a consumer but can then dash their hopes.

BTW, I don't think we should turn this into a BMW bashing thread.:offtopic:

So, what oil should I use.......:nono: :rolleyes2:

Andy

I love my '02 dakar - My old-er bike could be likened to a mature Woman or red wine- gone are the smooth lines and all the bling, helloooo curves, trust, comfort, reliability and enjoyment ! or is it just me then? a few dents, scratches and wrinkles just shows 'lived-in' character :biggrin3:

p.s Andy you little :devil2:....you know snake oil is best :wink3:

But they are the best kind :innocent:

I note that four out of the five topics are the electronics that people keep saying makes bikes more reliable ?? so what gives?. If all goes well I shall soon be the owner of an Enfield. Thankfully the entire electronic ignition system ( black box and sender unit) cost £45, so I shall be able to afford to carry a spare system.

A BMW bashing thread that has been up for two months and we haven't heard from Mollydog? You're slipping Dog :innocent:

I have ridden airheads since forever and I really want to like a new BMW. They are great performing bikes, but I can't get around the fact that I can have two reliable Japanese bikes for the same price.

And there is no argument any more... :clap:

Enfield, Triumph and Yamaha have all introduced FI systems I know where the software has been right straight out of the box and I've never heard of a failure. New Guzzi's have been fine since they sorted the California and every car made since about 2005 has been electronic FI and a lot more to boot. I've also stopped hearing about both early Guzzi and F650 FI issues, so the upgrades might be late but they worked.

My engineering background is in truck brakes. It was always a lot easier to plug a lap top into a new truck than start messing about with gauges and leak finder on some ancient thing. The old trucks had more issues, it was just that the operators were used to that and didn't get hot under the collar. Having some idiot with a multimeter spend weeks unable to find the blown fuse did wind them up. Now every truck dealer in the country has the software you won't find many that'll buy the old systems. It's a transition phase that IMHO should now almost be over with bike FI.

It's simply better to let someone else try and tell the OEM they got it wrong when they do.

I picked the examples I did more to demonstrate why I won't buy a new model rather than anything to do with the technology.

Andy

Isn't he banned?
Almost all his posts are edited...

Not banned, but currently a "Moderated user". This means a moderator has to ok this user's posts before they go live. Incidently, I didn't put him into this group, nor do I get to read these posts first, before okaying them or not.

Over past few weeks, I've also enjoyed my time on the HUBB much more because all I do now is positively contribute, read for pleasure, research for trips and race other moderators to be the first to ban new spammers.
cheers
Chris

Yep, it's true.

Recently had mine serviced and local BMW crew knew about it. Problem is only with certain batches, presumably from specific assembly/manufacturing plants and they replace with no charge to owner.

Other minor issues too, but they get sorted out as you have the bike serviced...

It's a fun bike, friends! To the mountains of Lesotho is two weeks!

Point is they 'HAVE' to use FI in order to comply with emissions regulations. ( carbs are open to the air so when parked 'can/might' emit vapour). Nothing to do with costs, reliability or performance.. Certainly not there for the riders convenience. Now I admit, many, probably most would prefer to have the high tech option fitted, but not everyone. I just want it to work, and if it does not work I want to be able to fix it with the bikes original toolkit. Maybe with a few augmentations to the toolkit and spares box. BUT, the tools and spares 'HAVE' to be affordable to carry.

F800/f650
 

Tim, I wonder why you say this when yo have a 2008 F650 you bought when they came out?? Please correct me if I am missing something.

BMW and KTM are realistically the only companies pushing the boundaries of bike technology with most of the others falling behind, particularly in the big trailies. yeah we all know they aint real dirt bikes but we all know that 90% on here barely leave tarmac.

im no expert on ktms and japs but they all have their issues. japs for instance wear out parts, as opposed to fail, a lot faster. based on my experience my 800gs went through all manner of sh1te road conditions, rivers, sand for over 12000 miles and bar a rad pipe being replaced never squeeked, and i dropped it numerous time on hard and soft.

just my input, probly b0ll0cks but hey! Interesting topic though.

I think Tim was saying that because he bought one and had some hassle with it. So he has learned from experience.

S