|
GS Adventure built on a Friday afternoon???
Okay, so I lay out the dough for a 07 GS Adventure, it's my second BMW and I liked my last so good I kept it (K 1200 LT). In 100K's the LT had one hiccup with a fuel pump, but that was about it. My thoughts were that these Beemers truly are a reliable machine, ergo buy an Adventure, no worries. My riding style is quick but not trashy, I respect everything that has to whir about, my downshifts are smooth, I accelerate quickly, but no more than any other rider. In a nutshell I'm a pretty sedate rider. So am I about to grind? Yeah... Less than 10K the transmission input shaft shears in half. I'm told it's an old metallurgical fault going back to the 1150's. BMW treats me like a prince and fixes it up 0$. Now I'm at 16K and I get this little vibration during downshifts that feels like a bum throw out bearing. Today I pull out to pass a cage and whoa! monumental clutch slip! I know that BMW will fix what ails, but jeeze, I'm planning an 08 ride into the North West Territories and my confidence is really starting to wane. I have no grind about warranty etc., my grind is why I would be loosing a clutch at 16K when there's no abuse involved and if BMW knew about metallurgical faults with shafts way-back- when why didn't they nip that one in the bud before 2007!? Somebody tell me I'm being way too picky and just get on with the program. Why do I picture myself on the side of the Dempster with my thumb out...
|
Good luck Stu!
It's a concept branded BMW owners can't except.
|
I have a friend here just up the road who forked out for a new 1150GS Adventure like yours. So far, under warranty he has had the gearbox and clutch replaced once, as well as the output shaft and bearings.... (I think... there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth during the story telling) plus some other stuff...in under 22,000km. Now there is a vibration, like yours. After many phone calls and emails, the local dealer has admitted there is a "design fault" with the Adventure. The extra rear suspension travel loads up the front end of the driveshaft and back of the gearbox. The vibration is particularly bad in fourth gear. BMW's answer? Don't use fourth gear so much!!!
It seems the answer is to fit the ordinary GS shock to reduce travel.. but then the ordinary GS is, well, more ordinary and when you have forked out your hard-earned sheckles for the super-duper-go-anywhere model, that's what you expect to have. And it also ignores the numerous people with warranty claims on the back end out the "ordinary" model as well. I think your problem is you have gone from without a doubt THE most reliable BMW model range (the K-series) to the one that seems to have had the most finger-pointing model range (oil-head). I know I'm about to dust off the flame-suit, but I have had a very large majority of R1100-1150 owners who have stayed with us or who are local riders I know well that have had serious problems with their transmissions. And this is from someone who owns three BMWs.... Regards Nigel in NZ |
Hello again Mollydog.
I see BMW bash-club still holds strong ground? Take off your jap-roundels first before you post. :) I've had modern jap bikes and I know their strong and weak ponts. Look around how many problems jap bikes have had in their section first, then start searching your "tar-drop in honey pot" in BMW section to start another of your typical BMW bash session while you've never owned modern a BMW yourself, and your only excuse to bash is based on "seeing in person" etc gossip reasons, while I've seen jap engines simply seize in person too. Does it mean it counts? To Stu: I don't know much about the new 1200s, about their gearboxes and how you change gears. A bit surprising is clutch, where clutch itself is very similar to the older 11xx like I have, since yours is hydraulically operated then very probably wrong amount of oil (parallel to small freeplay on cable clutches that burn out clutches on any bike). This gives me clue what happens in the garage of your BMW dealer - if you aren't that fed up with BMW and want to continue with the bike, then I'd say change your dealer or start servicing the bike your own even better. Good luck indeed, Margus Quote:
|
Sad story!
The first thing that comes into my mind is that when the input-seal on the gearbox broke it leaked a bit oil on the clutch. Do you know if your clutch got checked when they changed the seal? I guess not, because it’s not possible without taking the clutch apart. A friend of mine had problems with the same seal a few months after he bought the bike, but it has worked well since (60kkm+) |
Quote:
On 11xx boxers you can observe some part of the clutch by taking starter off (very easy job, just two bolts). If it's a visible leak then there should be some oil spilled on the clutch plate corners or on the casing walls nearby. 1200 boxer has the clutch casing closed from the starter side? |
Quote:
But I agree, it’s smart to remove the starter and check before you tear it apart! |
My Friday afternoon build. Maybe, sorta, could be...
Thanks Guys, I'm heading to the dealer right now, well as soon as some fog lifts, you can't see your hand in front of your face at the moment, not a good mix between me and some seriously deranged cage pilots.
My driveline issues were not the only ones I have with this machine, although BMW are absolute champions in the warranty biz. OEM fog lights needed a new control package and the bike had to be completely reprogramed, at least that's what I'm told. They didn't work from the day I picked the bike up. There is a 'day one' vibration from one (both??) of the front discs that is now becoming very pronounced at any speed. I thought it was just pads seating in, guess not. Aside from one putt around some very dry grass covered trails the machine has not seen dirt, I still have road tires on it. I'll pass this little gem on this morning to the tech. The last grind - and you'll call me nuts on this one is the alignment... no guff. When I'm rolling along I can look at the top of my down tubes and they don't line up with anything, they're on an angle. I looked at the body work to see if there was a variation one side to the other but I can't see anything that makes sense. The machine appears to run straight, I even had a buddy run it down the road and I followed behind to see if something looked cockeyed. It didn't, but it just pisses me when I see things that are not plumb and true, this is a BMW and that fact is reflected in the $$. Things should be straight darnit. Now before anyone goes "You crashed it!" I did knock the bike over once, in my driveway, I was doing about 0.25 KPH. Very embarrassing...loose gravel and a depression that exceeded the draft of my foot... oops. I dopped my LT in the exact same spot too, you'd think I'd fix that little divot eh? The long and short of this vent is that by all accounts the GS is a true RTW machine, but that vision is erroding with each trip to the shop and that just sucks because I really don't want to be let down in the far north where bears enjoy "crunchy on the outside - soft and juicy on the inside" motorcyclists. On the plus side when things are right the machine is a dream to ride, seating, performance, handling etc. But then again, so was the tilt and load truck that picked me up the last time... I'll keep you posted on what happens today. |
Friday made Gs'er, back from the shop.
Okay Guys, I'm back from the Beemer barn. and I have a headache, oy. Here's a question and I think I know the answer - but it wasn't the one I got from the tech... Clutch slip. The tech took my bike out and afterwards told me that after lifting the front wheel off the ground in 1st, and full power in 2nd offered no clutch slip and that is where you get the most tourque load on the clutch... I didn't say anything because I rarley question someone unless I already know the correct answer. Buuut...My take on maximum torque (on the clutch assembly) would come when you're in top gears, lets say 6th @ 4000 RPM, even 5th @ 4500. Now roll on the right hand. Would you not be entering the maximum engine torque band and offering the largest driveline resistance to that tourque simply by being at speed and under full load? Lifting a front wheel in lower gears is simply driveline gearing and I would say offers little clutch loading compared to a high speed roll on. I really don't mind if you tell me I'm full of it, but counter with a good argument.
Yup, the front disc(s) do need to be replaced, they'll try to get warranty. Bets anyone? Front discs at 16K (99% Highway no less). Go figure. Actually these guys have treated me wonderfully and they have my full confidence, I think. The tech says that there may be other clutch issues but they won't be able to get me in for a full look at until Nov. 1, which may sound completely daffy, but with my schedule it fits, so I don't mind. It would be a different story if I were in Butthole, North West Territories. On the way home I slipped the clutch a bunch of times, I told myself "hey, this is like riding an automatic! Woohoo, I got that option for free!" Of course if I wanted an automatic I would have bought a Chevy. Dazed and confused and reving somewhere between 3000 and 6500, ocassionally. |
Margus and Molly Dog
I almost forgot this, but you guys are too much. Ha! Anyone can bash anything that has more than two moving parts. Now, if you want to compare the cost of the two moving parts, well, I can see how arguments start...
|
Torque talk
Quote:
Hi Stu, Here's my very humble understanding of torque, often mixed up with discussions of horse power so I will stay away from that. A mechanical engineer can come on here and correct me as necessary. I don't believe that torque has any direct relationship to the speed at which the bike is travelling along the road. It is related to the engine revolutions directly (and the design of the engine); so, you need to see the torque curve for your engine design and see at what revs it develops the maximum torque - you will have an instinctive feel and understanding for this already from riding the bike, but you may not know exactly what the book answer is, any more than I do for any of my bikes. It is torque that produces that surge of acceleration that we all like! So, the tech guy may be as right as you; he develops the max torque at a low road speed and you do it at a higher road speed; I am taking this "argument" to apply to the torque developed by the engine - I can't see how that is different from the torque passed to the clutch, in the way that you discuss - that's the only way it is transmitted to the rear wheel. V twins/Boxers etc will generate good amounts of torque low down in the rev range as a rule and then the graph will start to tail off at quite a low rev value compared with, say, the inline 4 cyl bikes. I hope this helps BTW! |
Just a view
Oh yes, on this business of BMW warranties.
At great risk of someone trying to shoot me down (which does not bother me in the slightest) there is quite a bit of opinion among the UK Beemer riders that I know (and I know a few via the UK BMW club) as follows. Modern BMW bikes are not really all that great on reliability (no statistics here, remember this is an opinion which has been expressed to me in conversation by owners of BMWs, principally 1200GSs) but what they are good for is the warranty cover. It is the "great" service under warranty which leads to the reliability reputation + the BMW history of earlier models. There are shedloads of 2 year old 1200GSs on the forecourts of BMW bike shops here in the UK, because the owners change them over every two years and, thereby, have a permanent warranty cover which includes comprehensive breakdown cover anywhere in Europe. The reason I mention this is because I can't see why your dealer is unsure if work can be done under warranty. As a reality check (this is definitely known to me) one dealer here in the UK will take every opportunity to carry out work on bikes under warranty and charge that work back to BMW Germany - it is as simple as that over here; they just love poking around on one warranty claim, or while the bike is being serviced, in order to find anything else that can be done under warranty. IMO then, you put the pressure on your dealer and get everything possible changed/repaired under warranty. Hope this helps a bit, |
Haven't read this - only so much of 1200GS stuff I can take!!
I seem to recall that there used to be a website for "BMW lemons" here in the UK - I was aware of it a few years ago when an acquaintance of mine had a lot of bad experiences with a brand new and very expensive Beemer car. Anyway, I can't find it so,
maybe this is of interest:- Faults on the BMW R1200GS ps I still like the F650GS that my wife owns, but it is a rotax engine. |
To torque or not too torque
Thanks Dave, you make sense here. I suppose low end torque is the same as high end torque depending on how it's measured. Low end torque could be manifested by a perfect wheelie, unfortunately my high end torque is measured in clutch slip these days. Regardless, I agree, torque is torque and clutch loading is clutch loading. To "argue" I would say that the 115nm of torque produced by the mighty boxer happens (memory here) slightly over 5000 RPM. I know that I can get the front end to be real light at 2-3000 rpm, so I would think that full load torque should be manifested in a zero slip high speed sustained roll on that could be presumably be held right up to red line depending on wind and grade resistance.
Does that make sense? |
Faults on the GS yadda ya
Thanks for that link Dave. Now I need therapy. I know that the shaft / seal issue I had has something to do with my clutch slip... When you're sitting at the side of the road, (backwoods Quebec) in the rain with a bazillion Hogs flying past (all taking pictures) and all you can smell is gear oil (yuck) you know some of it landed where it best not.
|
the shop fixes the factory
Here, here. I agree. The legendary reputation of white propellers against a blue sky would be a smoking heap if it weren't for shops fixing warranty claims. Bit of a mixed blessing though, simply because if the factory engineers were doing the right thing we wouldn't be having this discussion. It seems to me that there are 'whoop" faults and then there are OLD faults that never seem to get rectified until it becomes a warranty claim. In today's world that makes me scratch my head. Considering how many brand new mistakes that could be made, why make the same mistake twice? Seems a tad counter productive to me...
|
I agree Mollydog
Thanks for the nod, I've been around machinery all my life and recognize when something doesn't "feel" right. The jury's out until Nov. on the clutch, but I expect it will be a re and re.
The discs are a bit of a head scratcher. As I noted I do a whack of highway running, my choice cage or bike, but the road remains the same, therefore - bike. Braking is minimal, I leave my driveway and I'm clear and free @ 80K, two right handers and I'm on a series 400 highway (originally designed as unlimited but now posted at 100KPH...tears...) so to say that I'm always on the brakes is hokum. My pads look like new and this issue starts right from the git go. I thought it was pads seating but noooo. Go figure. The real issue is why does a premium bike, premium $$, premium marquee have these issues? It honestly staggers me. As far as I can see there is no excuse. I've been reading other threads, they all seem convincing but lets be conservative here. If I was to discount 75% of what I read that still leaves a huge error. I should have stuck with the K bikes and perhaps bought a...what? Also... I really want to go north on a GS Adv., cause I like riding it! Pardon me whilst I pout. |
Warranty
BTW in the Great White North it's 3 years bumper to bumper. Thank God.
|
offtopic, but essential
Quote:
Quote:
Anyways, send me a PM or e-mail copy of that article, if possible, please. Re: 1200. I agree, I've said here before it's a big progress for BMW in terms of performance and agility, as it is supposed to be over the bikes made in the last century. But proven reliability and simplicity on older boxers make them still favorable traveling companions for some people, especially to those who like to work on their bikes their own, me included. I'll be hearing from you soon then. Best, Margus |
I wrote a play! It's all fantasy and it doesn't happen in real life.
Quote:
A fantasy – Friday afternoons Scene 1: The BMW factory in Berlin: the immigrant worker does not own a motorcycle, not even a BMW – he cannot afford one and he finds it quite hard to understand why anyone would want to ride such a thing when there are very comfortable 4 wheeled vehicles in abundance (he can’t afford one of those either). He is employed on a temporary contract to swing a hammer all day long, thereby inserting gearbox bearings into the back end of BMW boxers as they go past him on the production line. Most of the time his thoughts are elsewhere – back in Poland or Turkey with his family to whom he sends most of his wages. He earns “not a lot” and by sending the cash out of Germany he does not have much money to live upon. His days and nights are a grind with very little to look forward to, other than the satisfaction of providing cash for his wife and kids. He has no formal mechanical training and is very competent at swinging that hammer. When frustrated, it is quite stress-relieving to swing a hammer. Scene 2: A BMW dealership in a West European country; a fully workshop trained mechanic is to replace a failed gearbox bearing with another of exactly the same type under warranty. He may, or may not, know the owner of the bike, depending on the level of interest shown by that owner and the policies of the dealership in allowing customers to enter the workshop area – Health and Safety considerations are paramount here and are a very effective tool used by the front of shop sales staff to prevent the customers from communicating with the mechanics. The workshop is well equipped, the mechanic is well paid and gets home to his family every night at the end of his working day. He more or less enjoys his work (except the odd occasion when the suits come in to the workshop) and he loves to ride his Harley D at weekends. He is a time-served mechanic, has been at the workshop for quite a few years and he gets to work on a variety of BMW bikes thereby solving a range of problems. Unfortunately, this may be a bit of a rush job because there are three others waiting for the same work to be done, it is Friday already and all of those owners want the bike for Saturday to go touring on their annual vacation. Scene 3: A BMW owner is about to change the gearbox bearing on his bike; he is an absolute enthusiast, having owned multiple BMWs over many years and he has always done his own maintenance routines and repairs, once the bike went out of warranty of course. He has all of the necessary tools to hand in a well set up garage at home and he has all the time in the world available to him to do this task, because he has other bikes to ride while this one is off the road. For a hobby, he takes bikes to bits and puts them back together. He may be a time-served mechanical engineer or he knows one, who happens to be his second-best friend, via the BMW club of which he is a member. |
Hehe, very nice!
There is a lot of truth in that one :thumbup1: But of course I don’t see myself in that play; I started to serve my bike after the 1000km service so I didn’t wait to bike went out of warranty. I’m not a member of the BMW-club either, but my workshop (got it last year) starts to look good. :smiliex: |
Hi AliBaba,
That's why I wrote a fiction. I think it maybe science fiction - they can end in any way you like to imagine. :thumbup1: Cheers, |
Moral of the story
I can't help but carry this to the extreme, besides I need a good laugh...
Moral of the story. Buy a BMW and a full shop manual. Take it (carefully) home, preferably on a trailer. Study the manual until you know it by heart. Now rip the boxer apart and do it all over again, but right this time. Then go and put a bazillion miles on it worry (bear) free. Hmm. What ever happened to plant Quality Assurance processes or are odds and sods being made in China now? |
Stu,
The disc problem you have could be Variable Disc Thickness VDT, and it fits with the way you ride the bike. VDT is caused because the disc has run out and because of this it will wear on the high spots as it sweeps past the brake pad. In my experience a disc run out can be in manufactures tolerance and still suffer. If it is not too late you could check the run out on the discs and measure the thickness around the circumference. Another school of thought thinks disc runout results in variation of brake pad contact pressure causing some heat thickness variation. It happens a lot and many riders put it down to warp discs. I would say the replacement discs could suffer the same fate. Steve |
Lumpy discs.
Thanks Steve, makes sense as there was a vibration from the git-go, I thought it was just pads seating in. I wonder if the disc(s) could be turned true? They do it with auto discs all the time. Perhaps the vent holes would prove a challenge, not sure about that. Funny thing here, my LT had a rear disc that squealed like a banshee and they replaced it right away even though it was as smooth as silk, but get one that's lumpy and they need to prove it for warranty. Go figure. I suppose a line has to be drawn in the sand somewhere.
|
Smooth Experience
I have a 2006 1200GS, 12,000 miles, several long trips and zero problems or issues. Everything has been perfect.
If your bike has 3,000 parts on it and it is 99% defect free, you still have 30 defective parts! Put that in your pipe and smoke. I hope you get things sorted out. |
A bit of background
The guy I ride with most frequently is on his second 1200GS; he loves them and is looking forward to getting the new model in 08 when his current bike will be 2 years old and his European warranty expires.
Both of his bikes have had warranty work done at around 15000 - 16000 miles. The first had the rear drive changed - all of it. The second had the gear box seal changed and, while they were in there, the clutch was replaced - all of it. In each case of warranty work, the dealer was excellent - no quibbles attitude and "can we change anything else for you while it is in the workshop?" approach. |
Still gotta love it. Even if it's ugly.
Well, I hope I don't have to fear 30 some-odd bad parts, or I will be bear meat somewhere north of 60.
I do need to make it clear that my dealer service has been and still is exceptional, I have no problem with access and honest dialoge behind, or in front of the service counter. We may disagree on a diagnosis, but once the answer is in I end up riding away on a great working machine with zero out-of-pocket costs. The whole discussion centres around why I need to be in front of the service desk in the first place. It seems to me that the BMW factory is content to shoot itself in the foot, year after year, when it comes to known faults that just shouldn't be. It's somewhat sad really, especially after riding a K bike all over N.A. with zip for problems. If someone were to ask me today what I think of the R1200GS Adv.- today...I'd need a moment of pause to choose some careful words. |
Respect Partick, it's the first fairly balanced post from you in BMW section for a long time. What got into you?
Never said Japanese QA is worse, it is just my own first hand experience with Suzuki bikes that says that they aren't nearly as perfect as you would expect them to be based on the gossip. While my BMW has been bullet proof reliable over 70K of one and over 60K of my other bike so far, considering what abuse they get in the conditions we have here in Eastern Europe. Thus for me, as a happy modern BMW owner, it hurts a bit to hear all the bashing from someone who has not even owned one. But if you wish to be unscientific, we all can speculate about QA, I'll list some of the things that can prove or disprove it: Fact 1) BMW R1200GS is the most sold big trailie model in the world, ever. - It could mean BMW has just too much work in their hands to produce them to fulfill the needs of customers in a que. They're in hurry producing them and faults can easily come. - Big numbers mean bigger problems even on a small fault probability. None of the similar big trailies are produced in such big numbers, thus we hear considerably less about their problems than we do about a R1200GS. - Any "massive-in-numbers" phenomena creates certain equally growing amount of anti-effect in society. Remember when Albert Enstein presented his Special Relativity theory - the more popular he got with it, the more guys there were to disprove his theory and hate him, till today, altough generally it was and is an accepted theory. Like the R1200GS as a phenomena: it's still the most sold big traile, but probably at the same time it has the biggest amount anti-GS bashing compared to any similar alternative bike. Like CNN or BBC, it's the bad news that makes the news - most of guys probably ride them problem-free around and we don't hear about it. Fact 2) It represents one of the most rare combination of technologies on a big trailie - paralever shaft, telelever front, boxer engine, ABS etc etc. - It's a black sheep among the cattle of whites, everyone can lay a trip on it. - If the business is sucessful (which it is), means they know what they're doing and we can trust their experience providing innovative technologies to the consumer in a sufficently reliable form. - Innovative technologies can create more QA problems, since they're the only ones testing them on the field. - Innovative technologies can create inferiority complex- or jealousy phenomena in some other riders with "regular" technology bikes, thus many of them rather get negatively oriented about it, it increases the bashers league lines, we even hear more bad about them. Happy travels, Margus |
I need a striped shirt and a whistle...
Margus, Mollydog. I thank you for your input and I must say that I see both sides of the fence. I have no doubt that the Japanese have cornered the market on improvements over a basic design, that's what put them on the map. I do know that their QA is second to none, just ask the big three in America.
I also agree that BMW has the market cornered on the 'Big Trailey' and have done more with the GS line than ... No, let me rephrase... They have done as much to the serious RTW style of riding as H.D. has done to convince Dentists and Lawyers that it's okay to be a bad boy on the weekend as long as they're on a Hog. Technological issues dismissed/ignored. Just do it, it's okay but remember to wear official H.D. stuff. Oy. No one will convince me that BMW hasn't got the real deal here. If I was to go out tomorrow and pick a machine to go north of 60 on I would buy the same one-hands down, because I really like it. My beef is why my particular bike is a Friday bike. I have two buddies that bought 07 GS Adv's, same dealer and they've had zip, nada, zero probs. Me on the other hand slink away to a corner and suck my thumb... I guess I'm just bitchy about it and I hope BMW comes through with the right fix that shouldn't have been required in the first place. Thanks for letting me whine and I'm glad you guys are okay... |
I run a couple of Africa Twins, now quite dated, but still "fit for purpose". I've been looking at what bikes are around to suit me if I changed bikes now: having read this debate about BMW and from reading over a period of time, I must say that if I were about to buy a new bike to fit my needs it would be the GS 1150. There's no getting away from it. I'd have one now: but while the ATs meet my needs I'll stick with them, notwithstanding fuel pump and regulator/rectifier problems which are well known but fixable. No-one thinks GSs are perfect either. I dont.
Reviewers (all of whom I treat with caution, however) over the years have described the GS 1150 as one of the greatest all rounders ever. Thats my kind of bike. So I look at these bikes and chat to owners. Yes, they have faults - as all bikes do. What has to be decided is -are the problems mentioned here only from a small batch of machines or are these problems typical? Mollydog mentions sources about BMW/reliability which he cannot name - so that's not too useful. Anecdotal evidence which he offers instead is interesting, but ultimately unreliable, I'm afraid. He must also deal effectively with the allegation of being biased against BMW and not being objective. I can't know if this is true or not and have no opinion on this. And the trouble with forums is that usually riders only post if there's a problem - not if things are OK, which can distort the overall picture. As Margus says -bad news is the first to be reported. And it's hard to get manufacturers to own up: Honda still asserts that there is no fuel pump problem on ATs, for example. |
Friday afternoon is not special
Quote:
Stu, You may have the Tuesday morning bike; they build them in the way described in "scene 1", every day of the week - it is nothing personal on the part of BMW but commercial "sense". No doubt they are not the only ones who construct bikes using the cheapest labour that can be resourced Most of the time it works out OK and the bikes perform to the satisfaction of the customer (it is a % game). In part this maybe because lots of these bikes are not actually doing what they were intended for; some are, some are not, but many of them are cruising the highways and byways of the UK and never see either dirt or high mileages - traded in every two years for that "warm and comfortable feeling" - nothing wrong with that, just my observation of a whole batch of guys I meet who ride BMWs. For those bikes which don't shape up, the fall-back position is the good warranty service which keeps the customer happy overall and contributes to the reputation for reliability. I was riding again all day yesterday to multiple destinations, meeting up with owners of 1200GSs, among many others, and that's the concensus that I detect in all of those I see on the roads of the UK - first question for discussion yesterday was "have you got the '04 model?" :rolleyes2: Those with Jap and other bikes sit around, drink coffee, shoot the sh*t and enjoy the sunshine; Beemer owners talk about their bikes. You might want to look at UKGSer* ::::* For BMW GS Enthusiasts This is a big discussion area in the UK for these bikes (but nothing yet about the F800GS!!). Cheers, |
Hello Stu. I've been speed-reeding through this post (Margus and the Dog are getting old already ;)) so i'm not sure if this has been mentioned already. First off, if you are leaking oil through either the input or output seal, the evidence will show on the seam connecting the motor to the transmition on the right side. A slow leak will show as black grease along the seam, where a full-blown leak will show dirty oil leaking in this same spot. This leak can also be caused by a leaking clutch slave cylinder. This problem is very common with the '05 model. I've never heard of shafts breaking! Clutches slip due to contamination, but they also slip from the hand guard being knocked up or down slightly engaging the clutch. If you have no oil issues and a slipping clutch, check that first. I removed the ball from my clutch to prevent this from happening. Warping rotors has been plaguing the new GS since about '06, with some people getting up to three replacements! There has been lots of argument ranging from ABS problems to improper break-in procedure of the pads.
I own an '05 1200GS which had 40k kilometers. I bought it used with 31k on the odometer. I have already had all the aformentioned seals and the entire clutch assembly replaced under warranty. I have just arrived in Mexico and the seals are leaking again. I have 4 months warrenty left and i'm riding it like i stole it before it goes to BMW Mexico to get repaired. If it leaks again, i'll do the job myself next time. I also own an '89 R100GS, and although i like the ride of the new 1200, the old airhead is by far the more reliable and practical machine for travelling. If i ever buy another BMW, it will be an Airhead, it seems the new models have become a hit and miss shooting match and the game isn't fun anymore :( |
Mr Ron,
I know every time you take your EWS key out you now wonder "Will it start ?" Every time you stop you go look at the rear drive to see if oil is leaking out. Get you airhead back. Use the money from selling the R1200GS to buy spare parts for your R100GS. John |
Oy. Now you really have me in a dither...
Thanks Guys, you make sense. Air head, oil head, that is the question...
I have invested more money than my wife would consider "practical" and you guys are saying "go back to an air head?" Where the hell has technology gone in the last decade? Really, all I want is to go to the NWT... snap a mess of pics, grab a great story and ride home. Without being eaten by a bear. Do you not think that the 07 R1200 GS Adv.. can do that? Oh my. I don't give a crap about some Turk smacking bearings. I bought a RTW machine at a premium price damn it. I should be at least able to ride it without a niggling doubt about clutches, shafts and seals. This is really starting to grind me. Maybe I should have bought a Ural.Or a Ford. Sheesh. |
Hey Stu,
Sorry to hear that your bike isn't performing up to expectations. In general, when matching any bike to the owner and the ride you are planning, the equation for each bike is something along the lines of: Bike Reliability + Warranty Coverage + Dealer Support = Total Package As stated, the older BMW models didn't need much warranty coverage because they were so reliable. The newer ones do, and that is likely not too big of a deal for most because the vast majority of these bikes sold in North America are never too far from a dealer. If they get finicky, you ride/cart them in and they get fixed. For your ride, it is a bit more of problem because the dealer support outside of Yellowknife is going to be pretty slim. If you need to find a 144" track for your Ski-Doo Summit you are in the right neighborhood, if you need to hook up to a computer to diagnose the problem, things will be a bit tougher. (P.S. Go for the 162" track, the flotation is way better in the deep powder):) But do keep it in perspective. As we speak, some dude is in Africa or South America riding this very same bike and for him, the nearest dealer is likely very far and most parts are a time consuming, very expensive DHL and customs experiment away. If you get in jam in NWT, you can actually phone someone, a lot of things can be fixed by some guy who at least speaks the same language and most parts can be sent by Greyhound courier and you'll have them in 2-3 days from Edmonton. Catastrophic failure? Well, at least your CAA membership will come in handy for the tow. For the guy in Africa or S. America, he has to negotiate with the only owner of a truck in the nearby village who thinks you are a billionaire because our helmet is worth more than what most people make in a year.:) I totally agree with your point though, I would expect that these bikes are close to 100% reliable and ready for everything because they are marketed in that manner and very importantly we are paying a premium which makes our expectations go up. Overall Bike Expectations = Purchase Price However, ask any KLR owner why they like them so much and a big part is because they are such good value. Total Package (Reliability + Warranty + Dealer) = Overall Bike Satisfaction Purchase Price For bikes with a high purchase price, they had better provide a darn good total package. But, IMHO this is where the divergence happens, they are selling us the entire BMW package, and for a RTW trip, I am only looking to buy one component - reliability. The rest of the stuff adds little or no value. For reliability alone, there are better bikes in the BMW stable and many, many outside of it. How’s that for a digression? Having said that, in the end, your bike will be perfectly fine, have an awesome trip, and enjoy the ride. If you are in B.C. drop me a line. I’d be happy to help with places to stay, shops to work on your bike and sites to see in all four corners of the province. |
Oh Stu! Dont read too much into this. Just get the bike fixed and ride it the way it was meant to be ridden. If it breaks again, you might have enough amunition to just get a whole new bike, its happened before. Squeaky wheel gets the grease! If you think it will break, it will...trust me! I ran into a friend Chris in Creel the other day and he told me a storey. Some guy from Texas had a new GSA and rode it to Creel. He discovered the slightest leak from the final drive seal, barely enough for the dust to stick to. He loaded the bike on a truck and shipped it back to Texas! Dont be the Texan Stu! Ride the bike, ride it hard! Ride it like you stole it! Its a really fun bike, and the motor rocks! I think im gonna keep mine because the grin factor is so strong!
Hello John. Sorry i didn´t contact you in Reno. I arrived late and had an important deadline to make, did a lot of nights on this trip. Im gonna keep the airhead, nobody wants to pay me what its worth. Planning to ride it back to Mexico from Colombia in November- My brake rotors are good, and the EWS issue is with 06 and up. If mine hasnt broke yet, i think its okay. I have a feeling the kid who fixed my bike last time was a little wet behind the ears. Truth is, i hate other people working on my bike! Only because of warranty will i allow this, maybe the techs in Mexico will get it right. Ride your damn bike Stu!! Get it fixed and stop worrying. |
Ron, If you ned work done on your bike in Mexico DON'T go to BMW Lerma (who are the official importers) take it to BMW Motohaus on Avenida Pacifico, In Mexico City. Trust me the guys in Lerma are really bad and a big part of the reason why I now ride a V-Strom
Garry |
Quote:
Stu! Enjoy your trip Man!! |
[QUOTE=Stu Seaton;155052] I suppose low end torque is the same as high end torque depending on how it's measured. Low end torque could be manifested by a perfect wheelie, unfortunately my high end torque is measured in clutch slip these days. QUOTE]
I think the main difference between the two is that the one is short lived and the other happen over a much longer duration. With the wheelie there might be some slip but unnoticeable, and while at high speed the slip will first be unnoticeable at first but as this slip starts to heat up the clutch the slipping will become worse to the extent that you will realise something is wrong. My experience of clutch slip on a bike has been the same, at about 110km and accelerating hard the bike will suddenly pick up revs into the red-line but the speedo is still hanging around the 110km/h mark. But at low speeds or pulling away under hard acceleration the clutch seemed to be fine. One more thing, if I know that a dealer wheelies my bike I will never go back there again. |
Ready to fly
Gents: I have been informed that my Teutoic Tin is ready for pick up, all is fixed at no charge. God bless BMW warranty and one fine technician, regardless of wheelies (besides, I know this bloke and if he pops a wheelie on my bike I'd go "cool, do it again, but show me this time").
I know I bluster about the GS RTW ability, (Margus) and I still have serious questions about design, factory and reliability issues... but as far as I can see BMW warranty is bar none the best in the world. Maybe I need to offset my chagrin of reliabilty issues with the warranty that backs up the advertisments. Now, I can look forward, next stop is Inuvik, North West Territories. Will I end up as bear skat on the Dempster, or shall I pop a cork upon my return in Toronto? Bets anyone? The GS 1200 Adventure is probably the nicest bike I have EVER ridden. Now let's see if the next 21,000 K offer worry free riding full of exploration and roads less (seldom) travelled. Our lifestyle is the best in the world, isn't it? |
You bet.
Quote:
|
Quote:
You can't really rely on Mollydogs assertions because he contradicts himself so much.. On the one hand complaining BMW owners change their bikes every three years to stay in warranty, yet... he also states he has had over 40 japanese bikes... I suspect if he had to live with them for a good while his opinions might change. I am on my fourth road bike since 1961, the first three I loved and were all Meriden Triumphs. My current ride a 1985 BMW r80rt has never let me down, but I do not love it. Heavy, high centre of gravity, high seat height and worse, gearchange on the wrong side. My next bike will either be a Meriden Triumph, or Enfield. I can fix anything on these bikes. the story was that Triumphs were eccentric and troublesome and you had to buy german or japanese if you wanted reliability. It seems to me that this was mostly the result of superior marketing and propaganda from japan in the richer markets. It suited dealers and mechanics that british bikes had a bad reputation, because it excused them the consequences of their own sloppy work. Truth is any bike you buy, new or secondhad it is an unknown quantity. The more 'modern' and by that I mean more complicated the more opportunity there is for it to fail. They are not all the same despite the hype. Every bike is different. |
On the road, in the dirt. Big smiles.
Gents: I have come to the conclusion that anything that has two or more moving parts will crap out, eventually. Regardless of adverts one needs to take the whole package into consideration. I was bellyaching about things that should not happen with a premium machine ei:the R1200GS Adventure... When I look at the whole service issue, aside from lumpy front rotors, it all comes down to the original problem of a broken input shaft and some seal damage. Eventually the clutch bit the bullet because of a gear oil bath on a dry clutch. Not a winning combination. HOWEVER... BMW fixed the problem, including the lumpy rotors. Anyone can speculate on what would happen if... The long and the short is that I had a problem, right or wrong, and BMW warranty made it right. To me that's the cornerstone of product security. Not only that but I have new rotors and a machine that runs like a charm.
I live in the world of product technology and every once in a while you get a problem that is unexpected. If it is fixed with no questions then ce la vie. Go ride and smile. Jap, German, American or Brit. It doesn't matter, if the machine you ride is the one you like then it's the best in the world. I'm a happy camper. Bravo BMW. |
Phwee!!
Hear! Hear!
Bravo! :clap: Oncore! :clap: |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 15:47. |