G650X Challenge
 

Does anybody have any experiance of these bikes, I have been using the wifes F650GS and really don't like it so was thinking about the G650X now that I know I can get a 20 litre tank for it but was wondering how tuned/reliable the motor is and if it shares any parts like levers etc with the GS ?

It's a fairly bullet-proof engine. Si Pavey is riding a G650 XChallenge-based bike in the 2009 Dakar with no engine modifications.

The G650 is nothing like the F650 single. Much more fun, though it needs work to make it suitable as a dual touring/trail bike. Some comments I wrote earlier.

There's some threads with pics on AdvRider showing how people have used it for touring bike. Also the 450/650 forum on UKGSer.

Tim

I think that with a few mods the XChallenge would make a great overland bike for trips with a large amount of off-tarmac going - relatively lightweight and smooth (for a single) and strong motor. Weak points? All resolvable with enough £££: fuel range springs to mind. Talking of springs, is the air shock OK? Wheel rims: seen a few pics of badly dented ones. Gear lever?: see advrider. Last but probably most important for me: reminds me of the early G/S....which I always wanted....

Anyone who races one has swapped the air shock for a coil...

The dented rims could just be due to it being a heavy bike, hitting stuff hard...

Si Pavey bent/broke his gear lever on the Transoriental, but that was sort of a freak incident...

I'd say it would be a great bike for modifying into an extreme terrain overlander - as you say, you can get a big tank for them now, bash plates etc.

I'd certainly be tempted by one (at the right price) - I understand BMW UK have just knocked £1000 off the rrp, but that's still not enough really when you consider how much you'd have to spend prepping it, especially if you factor in the price of the tank and the shock, and perhaps replacing the huge exhaust with something lighter...

So I bought a new Tenere which has everything fitted already...

xxx

Going for a test ride today so I'll keep you guys posted, a good friend of mine works at the BMW dealer and they have a couple of secondhand bikes in stock with less than 2K on the clock on 07 plates and I think he will let me have one with no warranty/sold as seen for a smidge of £3K, 20L tank comes in at £500 rrp so I'll see if he can cut me some discount on that as well.
I think the ali subframe will need beefing up but this is no problem again because an even better friend runs his own specialist welding/fabrication business and will do any mods to my bikes for a beer or two :thumbup1:

Sold to the man in the pointy hat :thumbup1::thumbup1::thumbup1: 1400 mls, year old, thown in a pair of handguards and the OE tyres which are new ( got knobblies on at the mo) He's going to get me the best deal he can on the tank, so just got to go get it dirty.

Touratech do pannier frames for the X Challenge and show it with their Zega boxes mounted to the OE subframe and knowing TT I'm sure they would offer a beefed up subframe if it was need but I'm going to have my bud have a look at doing it anyway ( he'll do it for £0 ) I weight in at 12 st with all my riding gear on and the X Challenge has an optional pillion setup so I would assume me being fairly light it will cope with me and a couple of ali boxes

What exactly didn’t you like? I ask because personally I find the F650GS better then the G650X for touring, but not offroad.

The subframe ias in aluminum and sure looks week. It’s bolted to the frame so it possible to make something stronger (in steel), but it will cost.
I haven’t seen alternatives – yet.


The air bladder works nice if it’s set up correctly. It also has a wider loadrange then a conventional springbased system.

I think it’s more likely that an air bladder fails then a conventional shock. When PG Lundmark and his crew went from Cape North to Cape Aghulas in 44 days with two HP2s the only technical problem they had was a broken air bladder.
If the air bladder brakes you are stranded….
There are alternatives to the air bladder.

Alibaba, The seat to foot peg distance doesn't suit my lanky legs, I don't like sitting "in" a bike and it's all a bit soft I like my bikes to be a bit sharper, I can see were you are coming from and I agree with you that the F would make a better tourer but will probably only be doing 150 mls a day until we get to Turkey and then half that from there into Iran,Paki,India so a super comfy tourer I can live without plus I'll enjoy it more over here. Our trip is planned to take 8 months UK-India-UK so were not looking at banging out 500ml days, if we were the XCH would not of been on my list it would have been a F650 Dakar

I see your point about the F650GS.

The subframe should have a good chance to make it to India and back!

If you want to know which parts that are shared between the models you can check here: RealOEM.com Online BMW Parts Catalog

Thanks for the link, i've been looking for something like that for a couple of weeks

Might help.....
 

Xchallenge seat
 

You might be able to fit the seat off the G650Country. I tried that on at the dealer, and it is well shaped for touring. I think the subframes are the same.....

Pretty much sums it up. Great engine, fuel injected, great economy, runs on 76 octane fuel, no maintenance required apart from oil and filter every 10k km.

Fuel range ... buy an additional tank.

Gear lever ... change it to a steel F650 single lever.

Coil over shock works very well with the bike. I went for Hyperpro, but understand Wilbers and Ohlins also do them.

Rims were nowhere near as bad as some of the complaining out there would imply. They are good enough for challenging adventure biking. And the wheels are a lot sturdier than G650 Dakar wheels / rims.

And yes you can get all the aftermarket touring bits for them.

Well yes, its 50 kgs heavier and uses 20% more fuel, but if you are into that ... :cool4:



I put 50,000 km on mine last year, about half of that was off road. A lot more detail on prepping my X-Challenge is here:
RTW X-Challenge Adventurization

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3492/...20d885a4db.jpg

Yeah yeah - don't get me started Walt' x

Oh, ok then - steel subframe (that is actually the main frame), decent pillion provision, comfy seat, luggage capacity, 23 litre tank, fairing & screen, twin headlights, twin front discs, cush-drive rear hub, and an engine that is every bit as frugal as the G650...

Basically everything that you've fitted to yours, as standard... and it's 30Kg more, not 50Kg... and have you weighed yours will all those extra bits on?

I'm just saying there are other bikes out there that will do the same job...

Jen xx

ps. changing that front sprocket then... how long? x

pps. I love Walt, I love his bike, and I love what he's done with it and on it - he knows this is gentle ribbing x

Ahem ... X-Challenge comes with a cush drive rear hub ...:thumbup1:

Now look here young lady ... as for fuel consumption, I rode a month with an 07 XT660R (I assume same engine) and it drank 17 litres when I drank 14, drank 21 litres when I drank 17. That's more than 20% worse consumption for same speed, same roads. Admittedly on good roads (fast gravel or asphalt) the consumption and range penalty on the XT was only 5-10%, but it was 20-25% on tougher roads! By Yamaha's own admission, they have used a very "simple" FI system on that engine. They built it "cheap".

To be fair (and you know I am a very fair man Jen) I will give you the fact that it is cheap, solid and probably pretty reliable. But I wouldn't trade my X for two of them! I think as long as you have that bike, you should consider renaming yourself to JMo and the Elephant. :smartass:

Is there an anti knock sensor in the XT engine? Will it run on 76 / 80 octane fuel? (sorry i should clarify ... thats actually a serious question :innocent:)

PS... love what you did with your front end.

Hee hee - yes, I actually thought that after I wrote it... but I'm sure you get my point - the Tenere has a lot of the equipment you've fitted to yours (and that you'd want to fit to any large capacity trail bike) as standard, and at a significantly lower price?

I'm not sure how the fuel consumption compares back to back, but while I was in the US I would regularly get 200-210 miles to 16 litres (with 7 litres still to go on reserve) over mixed riding.

Ho ho - I like it! - although I prefer 'The Sofa' - if you've seen last month's TBM, you'll know why...

http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/r...t/IMG_1943.jpg
(the blue and yellow paint scheme looks like IKEA!)

Not sure if there is knock sensor as such, but it ran fine on the crappy 81-85 octane stuff you get in rural USA... seriously, the fueling is spot on with the new Tenere - I've taken it from -282ft to 14,110ft, -20°C to 44°C, and it never skipped, coughed or missed a beat...

Yeah... you love what it did to all of it, you just won't admit it xx

http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/r...eg09_423_2.jpg

No Jen, you know thats not true!. But I DO love the fork conversion ... and OK I also love the KTM low front fender. Amazing that no-one else in the world seems to make a decent low front fender and everything in rallys from BMWs to Yamahas to KTM 530s seem to run with the 990 front fender. Its one of my projects this year ... to fit one to the X.

(I am even more amazed that people with this good low front fender as stock (KTM 950/990 adventure folks) get rid of them thinking a high fender looks more macho / off-roady.)

PS did I mention the X-Challenge come stock with a proper size rear wheel? ;)

I know what you mean about the KTM front fender - but I guess it's because very few 'off-road' bikes have a low fender these days, especially with USD forks - in fact I think KTM are the only one?!

You can buy some very tasty carbon fibre low fenders from the rally-bike kit manufacturers, but they are silly money - €300-400 typically, which is why Meca'system conversions tend to use the plastic KTM one (around £110) - mind you, they do stitch you up for the price of their mounting brackets (if you have single front disc pair of forks) - that itself is about $85 as I recall!

I'm sure you could fabricate something very similar to mount the KTM fender to the BMW forks?

Hope to catch up with you at Horizons, or in the Pyrenees later this year? I might even let you have a go on my bike! (so you can eat your words x)

Toot toot!

Jen x

ps. Plenty of tyre options for 17" rims these days too you know - hee hee x

81-85 MON isn't too bad. It's in the 90's RON if I'm correct.

JMo, I thought you said the dual front disks are a downside in other threads, with them being really overkill and slow the suspension down off road.

Don't really understand the dual front disk, as most other bikes in the same class do fine with one.

Colebatch, the Xc doesn't have a knock sensor, does it? My Dakar doesn't, and I thought it was the same motor with some minor refinements, like weight and a few more HP.

What Europe's thing with low fenders. Have you guys not had it fill up with mud to the point of it not letting the front wheel turn?

Hi tmotten - you could be correct with the US vs.UK octane ratings, it's certainly got a lot more ethanol in the US brew, but maybe not quite as crappy as the juice Colebatch's been running on in Siberia etc!

As for the twin discs on the Tenere, I wouldn't say they are a downside as such - other than the weight (and that was in relation to the Rally bike of course) - but yes, they do make the front wheel heavier, and thus the suspension has to work harder etc. I think the reason Yamaha specced them on the Ten' was primarily as they envisaged the bike carrying more weight (ie. a pillion and a lot of luggage) over the XT660R for example? And that the twin discs would give more power and a progressive feel? - they certainly are very 'good' brakes in that respect, on or off road.

As for the low fender thing - certainly here in the UK we have more than out fair share of mud, so I know where you're coming from! - however, it tends not to be the same sort of sand/soil that turns to clay when it rains that you find in Australia and the desert in the US for example.

I think it is there primarily as part of the 'rally bike' styling - but a low fender does help keep dirt out of the radiator, and also allows more air though the forks the reach the radiator, and at the same time doesn't flap about so much in the wind at high speed - helping stability?

Should you wish to fit a high fender, the Tenere lower triple clamp has the regular Yamaha 4 bolt pattern holes there already...

xxx

ps. I am sorry, I know this thread was originally about the G650 of course!

Low Fender
 

(1) Much better radiator cooling ... My X-Challenge suffered this year from the high fender ... the back end of the fender covers a third of the radiator ... meaning the fan came on a lot. I dont know what the power rating of the fan is, but I am guessing it is significant. 100 watts or so. When the fan was on a lot, (and I was running heated clothing and twin headlights) the bike's battery sometimes went flat. When the fan didn't need to come on, powering the heated clothes and headlights was no problem. A low fender will significantly improve engine cooling because it will give me the lost third of my radiator back. That in turn helps ensure my battery doesn't run out of juice on a cold wet mosquito ridden Siberian back road. And that for me is an improvement.

(2) Improved aerodynamic stability

(3) Lower rock thru radiator risk.

(4) If you clog this front fender up with mud then there in no way the bike would be rideable even with a high fender ... you would be adding almost 2 inches of mud to the outside of the wheel.!!! If you have two inches of clay glued to your front wheel you are going to need to stop and scrape some off anyway. You don't have to have a low fender a few mm above the tread ... you can move it out a bit for more clearance.

http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/r...t/IMG_1943.jpg

Now this is what I call radiator cooling !!

http://www.bikerzbay.com/images/stor...arc-Coma-1.jpg

Dunno, how do you check? Pavey told me it had one, and I ran it on straight 76 octane (from totally empty) several times, without pinging.

The engine was pulled apart in Kazakhstan after 45,000 km, and many tanks of 76 and 80 octane fuel, and the pistons and valves were completely normal.

If it doesnt have a knock sensor, and it does have 11.5:1 compression, then i dont understand how it does it.

The guy I was riding with had an 05 Dakar, and filled up with the same fuel ... also several tanks of 76 octane, and he too reported no problems. In fact he did about 30,000 km all up, NEVER using anything more than 92 octane (95 is recommended minimum)

Not sure how to check. The GS Maintenance manual or somewhere on the Chain Gang shows an image highlighting all the sensors going to the ECU, and I know for certain from discussions on the chain gang that the GS hasn't got one. So I guess it's the same for the Xc, but I'm not sure. Dunno about the relativity about that and the compression though. Out of my league of knowledge.

I haven't had any issues with fuel either. Not even with the dreaded Bolivia fuel that I heard so much about. You never really know what's in it though. But it ran fine. Love FI though. No looking after required.

I recently saw a video RR on a DVD set in central Australia where they rode through a sections that had seen some rain. Amazing how quickly the mud collected. The only bike that had problems with it was the 990 with a low fender. All the others had high fender, and although they weren't going anywhere fat (walking pace), at least they were going scraping mud off as they went. The low fender one didn't go anywhere. It actually threw him over the bar I think.
We had something similar with out old 3AJ Tenere in Mongolia. From there on in, I'm only using high ones.

I might be a bit naive here, but doesn't the high fender cover only the central frame? My radiator sits behind that anyway. It's got holes cut into it anyway.
I've heard stories of fans coming on from gaiters before, but I've never had that issues with mine. Now that I've put USD forks on it I noticed that fan being on on the first test ride (around town). But it was stinking hot that day, and pretty slow going. Will see this weekend on a longer ride how it goes.

I depends on which model bike you're talking about - an enduro machine tends to have a pair of radiators, one either side of the central down tube - however, some bikes (like my Tenere, Colebatch's G650, and matey on the 690 Rally above) have a single radiator in front of the down tube, and this is where the problem would occur...

I agree that a low fender can get clogged:
http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/r...ujisony257.jpg

But that was in pretty extreme circumstances! (in Utah in this picture), as Colebatch suggests, the reality is if it's that clogged, it is probably catching on the fork legs too, so you need to stop and scrape some of the crap off (which is what I was doing here)...

I guess the rule of thumb is if you envisage riding in a lot of wet, clay type soil that will bulk up like this, it's worth fitting a high fender... otherwise, if your bike has a full width radiator, a low fender for 99% of a trip is actually a sensible choice?

J x

ps. I know the XR has twin rads - but there is still an improvement with airflow in general, over a (high) flappy front fender (and this bike has no fan btw.) Another plus point for a low fender is that you can actually see where your front tyre is when standing/off-road riding?

Right ...
 

I think we have had more than enough NON X-Challenges on this X-Challenge thread ... so I feel obliged to link a couple in from around the internet ... some mine, some not mine:

These are from MetalJockey's ride through Namibia:

http://metaljockey.smugmug.com/photo...66_FRrtQ-L.jpg

http://metaljockey.smugmug.com/photo...15_ufHex-L.jpg

http://metaljockey.smugmug.com/photo...41_thMC7-L.jpg

And a few of mine:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2572/...54bcba4c_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3451/...ac967a6d_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2492/...1ce952c6_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2694/...acc1845c_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2457/...d0a938eb_o.jpg

In the hands of a Russian Motocrosser
 

Ooohh this is gonna hurt !

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3490/...8f4746f2_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2569/...85e93c07_o.jpg

Consensus?
 

OMG! great pics mr. Batch!

I just picked this thread up and it seems only one X Challenge is represented. What's the general consensus on this bike?

In California X Challenges are selling pretty cheap ... no longer produced.
How many have had Colebatch's success going on long trips on an X Challenge? What's the general consensus? Is there a X Chal specific site to learn more?

Also ... is swapping out the air bladder a must-do? Has anyone done long rides, fully loaded with the Bladder? What happened? In a nutshell, any problems with the bike on your rides?

Colebatch, I love the set up on your bike. How much all up weight is all your gear? (including the space station dash area). What do you carry that would surprise us? Have you ever crashed on the bike? I would worry about being pushed through the dash board, might be bad for legs, knees? Any worries there? I've done this on Motocross bikes a couple times! OUCH!

Mc D

Its not that they are no longer produced ... but rather "production has been suspended" due to the economic crisis. There was some talk production would restart this year, but I don't know if there is any truth to that or just rumour.

Not many people have done long trips on the bike, because its new and there is a bit of an irrational phobia about travel on new bikes. New engines I might worry about, but not a new model with a tried and tested engine. Half the guys out there still wont tour with a fuel injected bike despite FI being around since WWII.

There were a few other interesting trips on X-Challenges this year. The first 3 pics above come from one of them. Here is a link to that ride report if you want to read it.

The Wife, the Ex and the kid do Namibia - ADVrider


There is a ton of info (too much) so you have to filter through it:

X-Challenge - Accessories/Farkles - ADVrider

New BMW G650X (merged) threadfest... - ADVrider

I believe the ride report above through Namibia kept the air bladder. But I would recommend swapping it for a coil over shock.

No real problems with the bike. Only mechanical failure was the starter clutch has died after 50,000 km.


Weight of the bike? Stock bike is 144 kgs, we saved 2kgs with the exhaust, we added 3 kgs with a rack, 2 kgs with a bashplate, 2 kgs with the extra fuel tank, about 4kgs for the front fairing / cockpit. Thats 153 kgs ... with a few other minor bits n pieces lets call it 155 kgs with empty fuel tanks.

I carried a huge 5kg tent ..., that will surprise you ! I wont be doing that again. And a Eee laptop - with proper mouse.

Two crashes at any kind of decent speed. No real problem for the bike apart from the fact that the way the Touratech handlebar risers are set up, the bolt that goes up through the risers and only to handlebar clamps bends, and you have crooked steering until you can get another bolt to fit (not easy). Just badly bruised my arm on one fall and ended up with a big lump of blood under the skin for a few weeks. Bike needed a quick epoxy metal filling where the generator cover had a small leak from sliding down the gravel at 70 km/h.

I considered buying one of these when I went back to the US at the end of 2008, but all the new ones were sold out by then... a chap (from California) I was chatting to in Morocco earlier that year said that some dealers were getting rid of the last of their stock for just $6000! - which would have been extremely tempting! - that's less than I paid for my XR650R!

Even in 2007 when I was in LA I saw a brand new one in a dealership for $8000 - and that's when we were getting two dollars to the pound - makes you weep!

I reckon with a coil shock and a big tank, it would be a great off-road adventure bike...

J x

I reckon you might be right

I've seen several for $6000 US or even a bit less.


Colebatch:

I wasn't so much worried about F.I., more typical BMW probs we hear about with their other models like: batts/electrics, bearing failures and stuff. Good to hear you made it with minor problems.

I didn't realize that BMW was thinking of bring the X Challenge back :mchappy:
I think it would a very smart move. I've ridden the new F650 single (or is it G or what? anyway, the "new" single that is a 650 .... not the twin) I was a bit unimpressed. Heavier than a KLR, DR, or XR Honda. But the X Challenge just looks right to me.

Must be a "challenge" (no pun intended_ to hang all your soft bags on. That's why I asked about weight. Whatever you did it all looks tidy and very well laid out. Nice job! Will read up on the links you provided, thanks.

Mc D

The "new" G650GS is just the old "F650GS" brought back into production, but with the more zippy 53hp version of the engine that the X-Challenge introduced. They had to change the name because the old name is now taken. Its still 30 kgs too heavy though and the seating position on this and the old F650GS / Dakar is too cramped up. The X is much more comfortable in terms of overall positioning, but the stock seat is a killer.

As for my G650X, there is a comprehensive write up on the prep here if it helps: X-Challenge Adventurization

And I did go thru a pair of front wheel bearings, and 2 sets of headset bearings, but that's par for the BMW course considering the distance and terrain - I wouldnt call it mechanical failure - just normal wear and tear. I don't consider that unexpected and was carrying the bearings with me.

You're kidding. You reckon that's acceptable? How many k's did you get out of them, and how many for the guys you rode with.

How is it to change the SHB on the Xc? It's easy on the Dakar, but the YZ front end (and I hear a lot of KTM's) need hydraulic presses which concerns me a bit for a RTW bike.

Did you ride some hwy k's on the Dakar on your trip to compare? If so, how was it if you were to consider doing more of those than the technical stuff. Although that Dakar was bog standard I guess which it shouldn't be really. Can't stop dreaming about a Xc RTW bike for myself as I progressively get better on the trails, but just love my current one for versatility based on my current balance. Just hate chucking my DRZ E on the bitumen for sections on longer adventure rides.
Can always keep dreaming off course.

I never changed em. But it cant be tough. Sure one set was changed by a good team off road mechanics in Russia, but the other time was by a lone semi-hack mechanic in Almaty. I left him the bike and a list of things to do and spare parts and went to the pub. If one guy with no specialised tools can do it in suburban Almaty, I am sure it can be done anywhere.

I got 20,000 km out of that particular set of head bearings fitted in Almaty, but importantly about 13,000 km of that was off road. Terry only did about 4000 km off road. Tony did about 10,000 km off road. I don't know if either had to change their headset bearings after the trip. I know its not great mileage from the head bearings, but it wasnt an issue for me as I was prepared for it. I dont know why I was prepared for it, but I was smart enough to take a set of head bearings with me.

I rode one around South America (F650 GS) a few years back. I cant think of anything it is better at than the X-Challenge, and as I said, its much more "cramped up" especially for the legs. Its not better on the highway. The XC has the same motor (slightly beefier actually) and less weight. I guess you could say the Dakar has a Tacho, a beefier alternator and bigger stock fuel tank. And its more suited to those shorter of leg. The X is a tall bike so that makes it tougher for the shorter gentleman.

The best part about the old Dakar was the engine. But the X has a better version of the same engine.... and 35 kgs less basic weight (179kgs vs 144 kgs), same brakes, better wheels, better ground clearance, better off road geometry, ... etc.

Well latest rumour I am hearing now is they wont be firing up the production line anymore. :( :funmeterno:

Walter,

As the de facto X-Ch expert, do you know how much the engine weighs?

And is there any difference to a 2007 X-Country engine?

Cheers,
Lukas

i dont know the weight mate ... but all the G650X bikes have the same 53hp version of the Rotax 654 engine.

I did find these two conflicting answers for a previous incarnation of the same engine on the F650.com site ...

"The motor along with the carbs weighs something like 85 lbs" (38kg)

"The motor, with carbs attached, ... weighs about 97 pounds" (44kg)

... how much does the versys engine weigh?

Thanks for that. I actually got a tip from Erik, he showed me this diagram:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...icture1-12.jpg

I was hoping that this might be the shipping weight, but since the figure for the oil is spot on without packaging it might actually be this heavy. I should get a dual spark engine to test fit this week so I'll weigh that one as well.

Still hope that somebody will confirm that the 400W alternator fits (if necessary with the R/R, the stock 270W is not enough for me either.

X-Country
 

Why aren't X-Countrys very popular, they do not import them here to Australia any more, have they stopped making them. I thought they would be a good bike for the ladies, being cosiderably lighter than the F650gs.
But it appears they just did not take off !!!!! I was looking at one for my wife but I feared parts would become hard to come by.

Thanks
Paul

Thats odd Lucas, when i use the same source to check the G650GS engine, the same 53 hp engine but with the 400W generator built by Loncin, is somehow 4 kgs lighter???

I expected it to be 100 grams or so heavier ...

So dont trust the figures .... weigh the engine and report back :)

http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fic...png?v=12272009

11007714097 BLACK ENGINE (650CCM) 103.81 lbs