F650 ADVENTURE ?
 

anybody know if bmw are planning to produce an adventure version of the dakar650? big tank? kickstart? proper pannier,s better suspension .the 1150 adventure was a great success so why not a 650 version ?look at how many rtw travellers use the 650/dakar.just a thought.

You could always build your own. With companies like Touratech and Wunderlich selling all the necessary parts, it would be a good winter project.

I think the suggestion above is a good one - nothing like building your own bike to get things just the way you want.

On another note, I think that BMW views the 650 Dakar as on par with the Adventure, as in it being a more dirt/ travel worthy version of the regular GS. The main difference would be the lack of any increase to the fuel capacity - a much lamented oversite on their part. I think the Dakar would have sold much better with an extra 2 gallons of capacity.

I am currently try to decide if to go with the 650 Dakar to travel light and underpowered or if to more robust, power and heavier.. and when I started adding all the extras that I had to install in the 650, larger tank, guards, lights, bags, enforcementes, radiator screens, it made me think that I would rather buy a few years older of the 1150. Shame because I kind of like the 650 Dakar much better.

So, I am still wondering what to get. Any thoughts on this? 650 or 1150

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If you're travelling solo, I highly recommend the 650 over the 11xxgs, it's much lighter, easier to deal with in the rough stuff, easier to pickup, and maintenance and tires are cheaper etc.

The only advantage the 11xxgs has is more power on the highway, and although you do spend a lot time there, it's not enough better to make up for the other times for most people. If you're doing a RTW record or something then the power is great, but for normal stuff, it's just not needed, or worth the extra weight.

I rode an R80G/S, which has LESS power than the 650, rtw with a passenger, and it was more than adequate for power. The only advantage the R80/100GS's have over the 650 is a little more room for a passenger.

Try picking up a fully loaded R11xxGS (or even an UNloaded one!) and you may find the decision of which way to go is easy...

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Grant Johnson

Seek, and ye shall find.
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One world, Two wheels.
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

Re more fuel capacity for the 650 Dakar - a bigger tank is nice, but generally not needed, and mostly just adds a lot of weight.

I know people that have gone rtw with a large tank, and said after it was a waste of money, the one or two times it was good they could have just carried a jerry can instead.

I have a big tank on my R80G/S and while nice, it's NOT critical. If you have the money, fine buy one, but if you're on a tight budget, forget it, just carry a jerry can somewhere.

Remember - you are probably on a ROAD - and the average car has no greater range than the average bike, so there HAS TO be a gas station for the cars that the road was built for. For the VERY rare time when there isn't, you'll find that jerry cans are readily available.

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Grant Johnson

Seek, and ye shall find.
------------------------

One world, Two wheels.
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

Also worth thinking about is the fuel economy. The 650 gets some +/-30% better milage. With fuel being an (increasingly) large cost factor on long trips this bears some consideration.

Hi, I'd like to jump in on this thread to get an opinion on the F650 for travelling 2-up.

Grant, I agree with your comments above and elsewhere on this site about smaller/lighter bike being generally better for travelling for a whole range of reasons. I would like to take my F650 Dakar to Europe next year for about 4 months travelling including camping. May include western Russia and Turkey - to be determined. I would have no doubt about the Dakar for riding solo with gear, but I have this nagging concern about 2-up with panniers & topbox including camping gear.

What do you think, is that asking too much of the 650? Note that power & speed are not my issue, do I risk handling problems or frame/suspension problems?

Regards
Skillo

Skillo, power and speed are not the issue, agreed - the main difference is purely one of comfort - will SHE be happy on the back of the 650? If you're big folks, probably not - if smaller, could well be ok. Do at least a couple of long hard days two up with all your gear and the decision should be easy. And remember it's mostly her decision... although you may decide against too! There is a big difference two up between the 650 and 11xxGS.

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Grant Johnson

Seek, and ye shall find.
------------------------

One world, Two wheels.
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

I should add that there have been no reports of frame breakage or handling problems two-up with the 650. http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb/smile.gif

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Grant Johnson

Seek, and ye shall find.
------------------------

One world, Two wheels.
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

Thanks Grant, there are plenty HU stories about travelling 1-up on the F650 classic, GS & Dakar, but I cannot remember reading any travellers going 2-up on these bikes. This just made me wonder why?

Actually we both like the Dakar to travel on (for up to 6 hours/day or more) and we fit on it quite well, although it is very cosy. But thats with small-ish soft panniers and no top box, for 2 or 3 days with no camping. I will have to fit hard paniers and top box for 4 months of travel, so this may change the way we think. We took a 1100GS for a spin to size it up and although the 1100 definately cruises better over 100kmh and obviously more room, my pillion says she is more comfortable on the Dakar!

Only one way to find out I suppose, fit up some hard panniers and try it all out at home, then re-assess....

Skillo

Skillo, keep us posted - we'll be interested to see your results!

One important factor is the size and weight of the two of you, so if you could let us know that with your assessment it would help others make the same decision.

thanks,

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Grant Johnson

Seek, and ye shall find.
------------------------

One world, Two wheels.
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

Thank you very much for your advise 650 vs 11xx, I will follow your recommendation and get a 650 Dakar.
My other dilema is if the year makes a big difference. Should I spend more money and get a 2004/5 or the 2001 that I have found that already is equiped with all the ideal things, guards, bags, with 12K would be ok?
Safe Driving.....
P.

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Pablo, I doubt if it makes much difference regarding a 2001 vs a later model year F650 GS. However, there is a very active website for 650 GS enthusiasts, and you might post that question there for a better opinion than mine. The address is www.F650GS.com.

I know of a highly modified 650GS which has been transformed into about as close to a F650GS Adventure as possible, with off-pavement capabilities well beyond the Dakar. It isn't currently up for sale, but might become so in the near future. Drop me an email if you might be interested.

Mike

Also, check out this site:

http://f650.com/

The 2001 model was the first year of the current model run and was notorious for having surging issues with the fuel injection. I would probably skip that year. If you do look at a used one, be sure to ride it thoroughly, and note any surging, I rode a used 2001 for sale from a local BMW dealer and the surging was horrible. It can be very difficult, if not impossible to fix. My understanding is that the 2002 and later years are much better, but some bikes still had surging problems. You don't want to inherit a problem like this.

The website above has more on the surging issue. I strongly considered the F650 for two-up travel also, but ended up buying a Transalp. Not because the Transalp was better, but I just happened to find a good deal on used one. For a single cylinder bike, the F650 rides like a twin, its very smooth and solid and it is definately proven as an rtw bike.

-Dave



[This message has been edited by davidmc (edited 04 December 2004).]

oops - I goofed on the website address I posted above. We are probably referring to the same address, which is http://www.f650.com.

My experience is somewhat different than Dave's regarding the surging. I've ridden a 2001 extensively and on this particular bike the so called surging was minimal and scarcely detectable. There is apparently considerable variation from bike to bike on this. It's also my understanding that Bmw upgraded the injector and FI software two or three (or more) times since the introduction of the F650 GS, and the same hardware and software as are on the newest models is available for the early model years. But, I could be mistaken on this. Again, I'm sure good information is available on the website.

There is also an aftermarket "black box" available which reprograms the fuel injection mapping and costs about $150 which, at least by some reports, totally gets rid of the surging on any model year.

Mike

Here is the link for info on purchasing an F650GS, along with surging & stalling info:

http://faq.f650.com/GSMainIndex/GSPurchasing.htm

As Mike said, the surging/stalling issue varies from bike to bike, hence the importance of an extensive test ride and check prior to purchase.

-Dave

[This message has been edited by davidmc (edited 04 December 2004).]

[This message has been edited by davidmc (edited 04 December 2004).]

Maybe there aren't a lot of travellers doing 2-up on a 650, but there are some ;-)

I have done the whole of West Africa with a 650 classic, 2-up all the way, and it never caused any problems whatsoever. OK, at the end the suspension had totally gone, but for the rest the bike has held perfectly.

Only main modification I had done was bigger tank and larger suspension (which wasn't enough at the end).

Obviously we didn't do much highway in West Africa, but even when we did drive good roads for longer distances (like in Burkina Fasso or Mali) it still was perfect to drive. And no, we're not midgets ;-) (I'm 1.89m)

So, I would say, 2-up on the 650, go for it (if the passenger is up for it).

Jef

Hi jef, thanks for info, that gives me a lot more confidence that i'm not wasting my time/money setting the Dakar up for 2-up travel.

As you mention, the rear shock would seem to be a limiting factor, so I intend to spend some money on that area. I'm not sure yet if I will just get the standard shock seviced and spring changed & set up for the overall weight I will carry, or maybe go for a good after market unit that I can specify for the job. The Dakar has a remote resovoir shock unit as standard fitment, so it may be up to the task if set up with correct spring. I will make some inquiries about that.

Otherwise, it sounds like it should all work out fine.

Skillo

I would highly doubt the stock rear shock would be up to the task of carring two passengers + luggage. One person, perhaps, but two people...no way.

Dave

I'd definitely go for an Ohlins rear shock if you can afford it. I busted a standard rear shock going around Mexico, without doing a lot of miles on dirt. I think it was the "topes" (Spanish for bumps), they seem to appear out of thin air!

Well Dave, regarding the shock, I can assure you it did hold - although indeed, as I said, at the end (after 20.000km on african roads) it was dead - especially after driving the road back between Bamako and Kayes. We were definitely not lightly loaded...

I don't know what at the moment the 'heaviest' rear shock is, but whatever it is, it is worth buying. I would forget about extras like remote adjustments and stuff, I had just had it on the hardest all the way (well, after I left the European tarmac).

Just to say that you don't always need big ;-)

Happy travelling

jef

I think a custom rear shock is the way to go. I will be getting one ordered from Wilbers (German) in the next few weeks for my Transalp. I have a hard time believing many "off the shelf" shocks would be up to the task.

Also, I seem to remember that there was an issue with the Ohlins shock on the F650, can't remember what, but Grant mentioned that the Ohlins has some issues. See this thread: http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb...ML/000335.html

As far as remote preload adjustment, its mandatory on my bike as the rear shock adjustment is completely inaccessable. Try to adjust your shock even once with limited access...its a complete nightmare. Not sure about the F650, but I believe the stock shock has the remote preload adjustment...probably best to stick with the same configuration. The "hammer and screwdriver" method is a terrible way of adjusting the rear preload!

-Dave