2-up F650GS or R1200GS ?
 

Just a quick poll:

Trip: 2-up (average size adults), tarmac + importantly dirt/gravel roads but no off-road (S America), luggage + camping stuff.

Which bike R1200GS or F650GS ?

Hi,
I don't know about the S Amer aspect, but the F650GS is too cramped in the amount of seating available for these two average sized adults when lots of luggage is to be put on the back - it's too cramped without the luggage and, maybe (matter of opinion and personal preference), a tad under-powered to haul 2 adults around.

There has been a similar comment from me in the past, in another thread, if you want more discussion about the F650, one-up Vs two up.

This all refers to the "old" single cyl; the new 2008 twin with 71 HP will be a different case.

For a trip of a decent length of time 2-up, I'd say go for a larger bike like a 1150/1200 or whatever. Sure, you can do it on a 650 but it will be more cramped and it won't have the same power as a bigger bike.

Hi,

I did a month with the GF on the back of my little f650gs Dakar fully loaded for camping before she had to fly home, still cruised at 90MPH and not many cars past us, well until we got to Italy.

I'm medium build 5 7" 60kg, she's 4 11" and about 40kg, no problems whatsoever had lots of acceleration plenty of room and could dodge through traffic with no problems even with my 41lt panniers. It all depends on how you ride your bike, I like to be under control and ride within my limits, I also like to be able to lift my fully loaded bike for when I drop it.

Why not test ride both with the misses on the back and see what you think, but there’s not much difference in seat size from what I can see.

2 up BMW
 

I have the 1200 gs and for me the 650 is just way to small , the 1200 gs is more powerfull but also have better brake and suspension than the 650 . you will enjoy a more roomy bike and the pillon will love it even more.If she suffer you will not be happy at all, a back rest is a big plus for very long ride.Mine has 25000 miles and my wife can do 300 to 500 miles a day on a stock seat without complaining .

good luck

F650GS feedback
 

I didn't bother to mention the suspension, but the F650 is on it's limit IMO with two up and lots of extra kit - for us "average" weight/bulk of people anyway.
I weigh 90 Kg without bike riding armour (been in the gym quite a lot!!); I dare not ask about my wifes' weight.

I don't know what the spring rating is (most staff in the BMW shops don't know either) but it feels undersprung to me when loaded like that and, anyway, the bike must be getting close to it's recommended all-up weight limit. I don't need figures to prove this to my satisfaction - I have ridden the F650 with various weights of passenger and with luggage with the pre-load wound right up to it's maximum. In summary, it feels lardy with such weight on board.
I certainly would not like to go off smooth tarmac with it, other than lightly loaded & one up - done that no problems.

Might as well mention it: with two-up, I found that the pillions' helmet front was nearly always banging against the back of my helmet on braking; that's how close the seating positions are. + with the 1200GS, the pillion can look over the top of the rider - no chance of that with a 650, unless the passenger is enormously tall.

I quite agree that the passenger has to be comfortable or the rider will get "grief", sooner than anticipated.

Hi,

My suspension seemed to be ok with 2 up fully loaded not much difference then when it’s just me and the bike to be honest, I had preload set to hard and the adjuster set to Std, when it’s just me I have the preload set to soft and the adjuster set to Std, and have never had any problems at all. (9,000 miles so far since Aug)

The only thing I did notice was I had to break harder then normal which on the single front disk wasn't much fun, and the bike did dive alot more then I would have liked, so I changed the fork oil and added steel lines.
We did about 500+ odd miles of twisties and the bike handled fine, smooth and solid and sure. Plus all of the hours on the motorways, and some green laneing to get to campsites with nothing to complain about.

I had both of our sleeping bags on top of my panniers which my GF used as arm rests, and I also had the top box on which she used as a back rest, so it was like being in the car for her. The only times when I bumped heads with Michelle was when she had fallen asleep, yup you heard correctly asleep on a little vibrating cramped Dakar so she must have been very comfortable. Oh did I mention that I tend to ride with my b*lls right up on the Faux tank because I’m short arse, so that might give me an extra inch or two.

When I’ve gained some more experience (new rider) and get some more strength in my bum leg, then I might consider getting one of the new F800s haven’t seen one in the flesh because I’ve been away from home, but they do look nice. I just won’t let myself ride a bike that I can’t pick up all day long, and the bigger GS are way too heavy for my frail little body to lift single handed.

But I’m More than happy with my small bike.

I had also asked a similar question a while back. I have an F650GS, and started seriously looking for a used 1150GS to go 2 up. Though after getting to sit on the new F800GS, there is definitely alot more room. The wife seemed comfortable enough. The test will be a long ride, not sure if that's going to be possible on a demo bike, but I am more inclined to go this route after all the gremlins on a new production bike have been sorted.
Good luck on your search as well.

F650 Dakar
 

Hi all

Just finshed 6000k trip in Africa two up on my Dakar and found it was great for the trip. I did make a number of mods to the bike but left the standard rear shock on which lasted well.

I didn't find it underpowered and it was great fun on the piste, We travelled with our friends who had a GS1100, guess which one was a pain in the sand, and which one popped the rear shock on the corrugations. (WILBER)

We often rode 700k per day on it without any problems and it was fine on corrugations.

It is reliable but like all bike does need some tweaks, it is a good all round bike. More power would be nice but after taking a R100 gs on my last trip, happy to go lighter and live with less power. .


Julio

Interesting Julio.
J/Dredd is carrying about 100Kg of human load and whatever for luggage.
What weight did you carry?

My wife and I spent 80 days covering 19,000 KM on our 650 Dakar this summer with no problems. We crossed Canada from Alberta to Newfoundland & Labrador and back.

We were fully loaded including camping gear and sought out a lot of gravel and dirt roads and trails. We even rode a section of the rail bed snowmobile trail in Newfoundland.

In addition to the gear I also have a TT39 kit installed so we are hauling 39 litres of fuel. We are definately at the upper limit weight wise but do not seem lack in power or suspension.

I am just now replacing the rear shock with and Ohlins. The stock shock which was not leaking after 55,000 km but it was getting soft.

It must be comfortable enough for my wife as she too fell asleep a few times!

The bike is in Tucson right now and we are heading to Mexico, Belize and Guatemalla for 3 months in January.

We did try a 1150 GS once and she did not like it at all. Because it had a two piece seat she was unable to snuggle up close behind me and said it was like riding a bronc.

I doubt you will get a concensus on your question. The 650 crowd generally thinks the 1200's are too heavy and the 1200 crowd genery thinks the 650 is under powered.

If I was buying new today I would definately take a close look at the 800GS which on the surface looks like the best of both worlds.

Our blog is at Backroad Explorers.ca if you want to take a look at our setup.

Cheers.

I agree with Bill it's all relative to the rider but I would say that my other half and I spent a while venturing around Europe last summer on a R80GS and it was perfect for two up with a full load, plenty of room and power for what we were doing and not to heavy to pick up if you dropped it. I own a smaller bike that we ride around town and while it serves the purpose, it would not be comfortable at any long periods of riding with us on it together, let alone any more gear. While I'm not 5'7 and she isn't 4'11, I would say I'm no giant at 6' and her at 5'7 and we are a little cramped. I agree the new F800GS may be the way to go but you should check out the options and see whats right for you.

Wow I'm so glad that there are other people on here that could back up my 2 up with load on the baby GS, I was starting to look like a lair ofr a minute there.

I can't fault my little GS she bangs away with the bigger bikes on the slab darts across dirt like a fairy across water, and handles being dropped a lot

:innocent:

Nice report and website Bill: how do you deal with the shortish seat length when riding two-up? What I mean is the thing about helmets banging together.

"Underpowered F650GS" - the new one has 71 HP which makes a healthy increase on the current 50, but I have to agree I have not felt particularly limited by the 50 on tap. Maybe just a tad above about 80 mph, but that is not what the bike is all about anyway.

Definitely 1200GS...

I think its the best bike in the market, for long distance trips with 2-up....

Dakar Feedback
 

Dave

The bike was carrying a fair old weight:

Me about 85 KG with gear on
Misses about 70 KG with gear on
Elkamet fuel tanks taking total to 39 litres - were full on a number of stretches
Metal panniers about 13 Kg each when full (inc weight of pannier)
Tank bag with camera equipment about 4kg
Rear roll bag 10 kg
1.5 litre of oil 1 kg

I did have the seat scoped to reduce height of bike. Will make a few more adjustments to it for my next trip.The only time that we banged lids was when she nodded off on the boring sections. For us no problems.




Cheers

Julio

Thanks Julio,
You "made" me read the bike instructions: i.e. I've dug out the handbook for the F650GS.
Your figures add up to 155 Kg of "live" load and 41 Kg of luggage = 196 Kg total, and that is ignoring the weight of the bigger fuel capacity.

The handbook has the following:
All up maximum weight allowed = 380 Kg
Bike weight with normal fuel tank full = 194 Kg
So, available for rider, pillion and luggage = 186 Kg (this split 124 Kg max on front wheel and 256 Kg for the back).

Therefore, you were at least 10 kg over weight, again ignoring the extra fuel you were carrying.
All that is without a calculator, but I reckon the figures are right!

Anyway, as I mentioned, I don't rely on figures alone:-
How did you find the bike to be handling with a full load and what suspension settings did you use in Africa?

Banging heads together: I guess I need to learn to take the pillion into account more often when riding two up on this bike. It doesn't happen when my wife is on the back of my bike but she won't ride hers with a pillion at all (which suits me because I do not make a good passenger).

Cheers,

I took a pillion from Bolivia to Buenos Aires via Chile on an F650 Dakar - obviously, it can be done, but it does get kinda cramped, it struggles with over-taking at altitude, and, even with a svelte passenger, the rear shock bottoms way too easy on any dirt.

I know it wasn't one of your choices - but if I was gonna two-up across Latin America, I'd take an 1150GS - loads of room for precious cargo, plenty of grunt, and more robust than the surprisingly-delicate 1200 (cue flaming from outraged 1200GS riders...)

Suerte, Dan

I agree with Dan
 

When their bike gets buried up to its shaft in sand/gravel, how many new 1200GS riders would happily shove their bike over onto its side and spin it round on its cylinderhead to get it out??

Seriously though, everytime mine went down, the only damage was a slightly more bent engine bar. You'd need to upgrade the suspension for two up though, with all the gubbins I was carrying, my replacement 180 rated spring on my Ohlins just about covered it and that was only for me. My original 160 spring was useless and always bottoming out. Great bike, plenty of room, power etc and no reliability problems at all.

Thanks Dave; The seat length is definately a bit snug. There is room to adjust your position from time to time but not a lot.

As far as banging helmets, I suppose it does happen now and then but I never realy noticed. It helps that my wife is a very active participant. She pays attention and sticks to me like glue over the rough stuff or while cornering.

hi bud
 

I've just ridden 25,000km from Australia to France right now on a 650gs and although i was only one up, i wished i had the 1200gs for most of the ride, except the off roading part, the comfort with 2 would be worse so i'd say go 1200 if you can
Ride on
Kev