What 4x4 truck? A 4x2 van!
 

Hi all,

I'm going to propose something that might seem 'ridiculous' to some, but I feel like it's worthy bringing up regardless…

We've been in the process of planning an overland trip from Oz to Europe for some time now, and have looked at many trucks and weighed up the pros and cons, and have come to the following conclusions:

- The vehicle needs to fit in a 20" container, to keep the cost down on multiple shipments over an 18 month period. So:
- Max length 5.75 and height 2.28
- We need to be able to get from sleeping position to behind the wheel, for security purposes
- We need to sleep 2 adults, 2 children

The above cancels out rooftents, as well as any existing camper conversion based on either landrover or landcruiser, incl. troop carrier, what's available in Australia anyway.

So, I've ended up been 'convinced' that building a camper to go on the back of a landcruiser '79 cab chassis is the best approach.

See sketches below.

Here's the catch:
As many past-overlanders have pointed out, Europe to India doesn't really require a 4wd, neither do the bits between Australia and India.

As many aboriginals proove, driving old holden utes (2wd), 99% of the area's in Australia where we'll be travelling, will be fine in a 4 x 2 with reseanoble ground clearence as well. Of course 'most' ozzies will not venture outback unless they're in a $70k landcruiser with $30k with of extra kit, but many of these vehicles have never seen the simpson dessert.

So, now I'm thinking: Should we really go to all the expense and effort of kitting out a landcruiser with a camper on the back, with as end result a vehicle that is most capable 'off road' (how much off road will we really be going - 5% if given the chance?), or are we better off with a Ford Transit van, 2.4 diesel, heaps more room, as it's a 'cab-over' design, which means more room for the kids, more room for camper fit-out, and ultimately a more 'comfortable' travelling experience purely because of the extra room?

So:
- I can pick up an early 2000 transit bus and do a relatively 'simple' camper conversion myself, by installing a pop-top in the existing roof, and doing the usual camper kitout inside the existing shell,

Or:
- Buy an early 2000 landcruiser and go the full hog with building an entire camper from scratch, including cutting open the landcruiser cab to allow for an open connection between camper and the cab…

Note that We'll be avoiding the rainy seasons in all relevant countries we're travelling through, however we will be travelling on 'high' roads, such as the road to Kathmandu and the Karakoram Highway however these road to get travelled by transits as well far more capable vehicles…

No, you can't get a 4x4 transit in Australia :-)

What is wisdom? At this point I don't know… I'm weighing the above issues up… I'd be interested in your thoughts!

cheers

Kai

- The vehicle needs to fit in a 20" container, to keep the cost down on multiple shipments over an 18 month period.

I'm still not 100% convinced that using shipping containers is the cheapest way to go if you can have access to RoRo vehicle carrying ships. The initial port to port prices seem to be competitive but when you add in additional port handling charges and transport charges (the container has to leave the wharf to be unloaded) RoRo comes out even or just a few dollars more expensive.

You just have to make sure that you have access to the car carriers schedules and have a bit of flexibility on timing.

Point taken, however RoRo is not available for every sea crossing, and unless we can go on the same ship it isn't that safe either.

Malaysia to India is probably the main one where container is the only option, and at around US $1500 quite reasonable.

We have to ship back from Europe to Oz in the end as well.

I've also worked out that there's a company in Oz that can convert a transit to 4wd and lift it. Have to look into total costs though…

If i was in your position id go for the transit.
4x4 would make it alot easier but with a decent bit of driving you can get
transits pretty much any where(ish).
But if you managed to convert it to 4x4 then ya laughing.
I travelled round in an old merc508 for a while and even that big oath we managed to get up and round and down some pretty mental tracks and passes in northern africa.
The other plus for the transit is the converting.:thumbup1:
Piece of cake compared to other option.
Well thats my 2 penny's thrown in.
Good luck whichever you choose.

Transit?
 

From your description I’d go with the Transit. With careful, well planned driving they are actually quite capable off road. I’ve proved it. Going places Series III LR’s struggled with. (1.5 metre snow drifts did defeat it though:clap:

Way more room than a LC or any other equivalent 4X4 and pretty good comfort. Oh and you can fit proper seats with integral seat belts in the back for the kids. Waaay safer than some home made camper conversion. Pretty important don’t you think? That single thing would swing it for me if they were my kids.

Maybe you could find a limited slip diff or even a diff locker if you think there maybe off road / poor roads encountered?

I have no knowledge of the new 2.4 diesel but I don’t hear good things about this unit when fitted to LR’s. You may want to investigate that further.

Can you get Mercedes Sprinters in Australia? They come in 4X4 with 3 locking diff's. Best of both worlds.

Safety of your property is not such a big issue nowadays - any country wanting to trade with the USA/Europe or have ships that end up unloading in the USA/Europe has had to put in place some very strict security measures. The days of things "leaving" the wharves in wheelbarrows has long gone. Making sure that you can lock up the rear of the vehicle/isolate the cab can help if you are worried. Plus what really valuable items are you going to leave in the vehicle? Pots and pans, bedding, some clothes, some tools?

Malaysia to India is a RoRo problem, but you can go back to Singapore and ship to India on the host of regular car carriers that do the USA - Japan -Singapore - Europe voyages. Go up Malaysia's West coast into Thailand, come down the East Coast and back into Singapore.

Shipping with RoRo ex Europe is very easy, Bremerhaven, Europoort, Felixstowe, Bristol, Tilbury, Le Havre all have regular sailings to Australia via Singapore.

Doing conversions is always a bit dodgy, that one part critical to the conversion will not be available off the shelf if it breaks - if at all. A diff locked Tranny would be good, a Merc with worldwide spares support would be better.

If you can get mercs over there go for a 208/408.
I'd go for one of these over a transit any day.
They all turn on a sixpence due to the rack and pinion steering.
Solid motors and as you said parts every where.

mercedes 313CDI
 

Hi FunkyFro - the mercs a plentiful in OZ, ie mercedes 313CDI, which still (just) fits in a container (if letting the air out of the tires will give me another 65mm), and should have enough grunt w. 95kw and 300Nm of torque to get up the mountains...

I read in your introduction that you've done a lot of travelling with a Merc yourself, not sure where you have or haven't been, the times that you did get stuck, was this due to lack of ground clearance, lack of rear diff, no front wheel drive or all of the above?

I could probably get the merc lifted a bit and a rear diff lock shouldn't be too hard to organise either…

The idea of travelling in a proper 4x4 obviously really appeals to my maleness, being able to go 'everywhere', but don't want to go down the big truck route, and starting to realise the limitations of having 4 in a converted landcruiser… possible but perhaps not the best choice for being on the road for 18 months…

Roger - thanks for your feedback on RoRo, great tip on Singapore to India RoRo, will certainly look at that. It would be great if every crossing is RoRo, but there are a few unpredictable crossings, such as Darwin to Dili (somie have been lucky to hitch a ride RoRo, others have had to do container), and if the shit hits the fan in Pakistan as we're about to cross from India to Iran, we need a backup plan there, which could possilby be shipping from India to Iran or Dubai (or shooting up to the stans via China and dropping down into Iran from there)… in short, too many unkowns to travel with an oversized vehicle… plus, i like the idea of keeping things 'small'(ish)!

"I read in your introduction that you've done a lot of travelling with a Merc yourself, not sure where you have or haven't been, the times that you did get stuck, was this due to lack of ground clearance, lack of rear diff, no front wheel drive or all of the above?"


Pure driver inexperience!!!

Sprinter every time. Hi top containers.
 

Would not touch the Ford. Ford are useless at support especially in countries where the van is not sold.
Go with the Sprinter it is sold worldwide and has better track record of reliability.
The landcruiser will be cramped - dont do it. Too long on the road and friction will heat things up too much.

Would definitely go container every time for security - the extra dollars are worth it for peace of mind rather than handing over keys and trying to seal off the sleeping compartment.

Forget the 20ft container - difference between cost of 20 and 40 is insignificant. Plus a lot easier to get a 40ft high top which gives you the extra height you were looking for with a sprinter. 20ft high tops are v rare.

We travelled in a Ford through the americas (Top to bottom) - it was kitted out by Sportsmobile and had a 4x4 conversion. The clearance was needed more than the 4x4. It fitted in a container (hi top) - but it was hell to get serviced especially common rail diesel. So avoid electronics.

Good lights - 360 degrees is more important than 4x4 (lights are better than an audible alarm). Actually a great water filter is probably the no 1 requirement way above 4x4.

Neil
Index

Haha! Sounds familiar, my last big trip with a 2x4 during 4 months saw me stuck only once - at the first camping spot - not being careful where i parked!

Do you think it's worth getting the Merc lifted? There a company in Zaire that supplies springs that lift it 45mm

Merc and not Transit
 

Funny you should say that… my wife isn't too keen on Ford either… One reason i was looking at transit is because there's a company in Oz that does a 4x4 conversion for transit, the Mercs (bar 1% of the ambulances, so rare) are all 2x4 and no-one does conversions…

I might have to let the idea of 4x4 go for this trip…

Good feedback on 4x4 versus lights and water filter Neil, i need that at the moment, putting things in perspective…

I'll certainly look into the cost comparison between 20' and 40' hitop, this would open up the possibility of LWB, although i don't want to become the traveller with the big fat RV… it's a fine balance :-)

come-on guys - any more votes for the landcruiser with camper option? anyone? :unsure: 230 viewing, and no opinions?

With four travellers that configuration of Toyota will be a real pain.

Have you seen the conversions of the same model station wagons to 6x4, remove the bit behind the second row of seats, put a tray back on with your camper.

BTW there is a 4x4 Transit for sale in one of the Aus 4x4 Trader mags at present.

The T1 Mercs were not sold in Australia.

The other thought I had was go to Europe and buy a 4x4 Sprinter or T1 Merc Campervan and do the trip in reverse. If you own the vehicle for more than a year overseas you can import it - just have to be aware of converting to RHD - I've done that twice.

Or just get one in the UK, they are quite plentiful here. Given the choice I would go with a Sprinter.

Getting a Transit converted to 4X4 doesn’t sound a good idea. You just know the conversion will be the weak link. I’ve used a 4X4 Transit County. They were an official Ford conversion carried out by County Tractors. When you looked closely at the conversion it was a real bodge.
First time I used it in anger it broke. Ride/handling was pretty nasty too:(

One for the LC camp... what about doing a conversion on a Troopie - I saw one in Morocco owned by a Fench family and it looked pretty good.

What route are you taking?

With some of the vans I would be concerned if the suspension will be up to some of the roads.

tuk tuk!
 

Hi Julian, we're shipping Darwin to Dili, island hopping (RoRo) up to Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, back down to Singapore, shipping to India, Nepal, India, Pakistan, Iran, Turkey and on to Europe

Pakistan has probably got the worst road conditions, i suspect, and it's been done with a sprinter by a spanish couple recently, incl Karakoram Highway, see

Globetour. Prenent el pols al món. Tomando el pulso al mundo. Taking the pulse to the world.

We had a belgium family of 4 staying with us who have spent 12 years on the road with landcruisers + camper conversion, both their trucks are based on cab chassis rather then troopy, they reackon the chassis is more suitable to camper conversion as it flexes in a different way from the troopy... they went for a 'soft' connection between the camper and the cab, as that's where there is flex with the cab chassis. Needless to say they're in favour of LC as well :-)

My thoughts are that if people can drive from Bangkok to the UK in a tuk tuk, then surely a mercedes sprint would be up to a similar challenge, as long as we don't overload it, which applies to anything from a 2cv to a Unimog…

Two reasons i'm leaning towards a Sprinter as apposed to LC at the moment:
- space for 4, incl. sleeping
- getting the LC certified by an engineer and getting a new road worthy (MOT in the UK) can be a real pain, especially considering the fact that we're cutting a hole in the cab for walk through to the camper. This would be a problem both for selling it in the UK on arrival, or selling it back in Oz on return

Sticking on the LC route, taker a look at this site..

Tom’s Fahrzeugtechnik » Rear-End Extensions

They do some quite smart (probably very expensive!) conversions and provide plenty of photos for inspiration.

My head would say sprinter camper van...

My heart would say a 80/105/100 series Landcruiser chopped behind the rear seats and with a tray/canopy on the back and two roof tents. Or (popular in southern Africa) a 79 series double cab pickup conversion.

To be honest I think 4 people in a 79 camper van is just not really practical. Whatever conversion I was doing I would make sure that it does not involve chassis or drive train mods (i.e. 6x6 etc). The 79 D/C and wagon to pick up conversions that I have seen and liked do not alter these areas of the vehicle.

But as I say, the sensible thing would really be a transit/daily/sprinter type thing.
Gil

We travelled around Morocco last year with 5 of us in an 80 with two roof tents, which worked fine.

Are the security concerns about needing to get from the sleeping area to the driving position in a hurry that realistic?

I did a trip in an 80 Landcruiser with full length Brownchurch roofrack and an Eezi-awn roof tent and it fitted in a standard shipping container just fine.

Having driven through Europe in winter and then down thro Africa I would definitely recommend a 4x4 van (the merc) for your trip especially if you wish to save campsite charges and bush camp. Many of the best (free) spots to camp are a little hard to get to and that was where we valued the 4wd the most. Our small regret was that staying in cities (parked on the street) in a landrover was less than ideal and on those occasions were envious of our friends in their merc panel van.

R

Hi Mark, checked out your website, what a great trip you did!

I was reading about your shipping experience from Calcutta, where you mentioned that Myanmar is impossible (as I've heard), and then you go on to saying 'or so I thought - see below' - then no more mention of it… apart from 'I could have got into Myanmar and Vietnam if I’d just had the time to set things in motion, then sit around and wait while things worked their way out.'

can you shed any more light on how it might be possible to get a car into Myanmar?

Also, how much did it end up costing port to port, from Chennai to Thailand?

Security concerns is about the children
 

Hi Julian, i'm not sure how realistic the security concerns are, it was something that got pointed out by friends who have been travelling in a LC w camper conversion for 12 years… over the years they had several occurances where they were very glad that they could jump behind the wheel and take off… if we encounter the same situations? Hopefully not

If it was just me and my wife, i would be less concerned, but as we're travelling with 2 children, we're taking there security recommendation serious.

Ha, exactly my dilemma, as the sprinter doesn't exist in Australia as 4x4… strange but true (actually, most amubulances are sprinters, with a very small percentage as 4x4s)

Thanks for the feedback Richard

Gil, you've said it beautifully, it's a head or heart matter, isn't it.

The boy/bloke in me says LC, as I'd love to be able to go 'everywhere'

The father in me says sprinter, even if it means not being able to go 'everywhere', and/or occasionally getting stuck... probably preferable over having too small a living/travelling space to move around in during 18 months…

re camper conversions
 

Yeah, amazing stuff, i've drooled over it many time, very inspiring… i like the squarness/hard edged aluminium approach of the fitout, prefer it to the 'romantic' wooden with round door knob approach, which is of course very personal…

I also like Offroadschmiede Marcus Haase | and Innovation Campers - Expeditionsfahrzeuge, Aufbauverlängerungen, Offroad, 4x4, Schlafdächer, Innenausbauten, Ausrüstung, Reisepartner, Reisen, Hardtops, Toyota, HZJ, HJ, HDJ, Rover, Land Rover, Defender, Mercedes, Nissan, Mitsubischi, Mercedes G

the latter having done even mercedes sprinter roof conversions…

4x4 Sprinter: It's here!
 

Thanks to everyone for advice on a suitable travel van for our planned trip from OZ to Europe with wife and 2 kids. We recently bought an ex-ambulance 312D mercedes sprinter, and it's 4x4! It's from 2000, the last year they made them with mechanical fuel injectors, and it's done 140k.

It was an ambulance for half of it's life, and a tour bus for the other half, travelling between Cairns and Cape York.

Bought it in Cairns, and drove it down to Melbourne, very happy with it.

Will post some pics once we start prepping it for the trip. Updating suspension on it during April, followed by removing the 'bulge', which contains a second airconditioning unit, so it fits into a high cube container.

Looks great - a wise choice I reckon!
good luck with the prep,
Gil

Seats for sale
 

Thanks Gil.

I'm about to take out 8 high backed seats, consisting of 3 doubles, and 2 singles, all with integrated seatbelts. Seats are 4 years old and in perfect condition. Would suit van or 4wd.

Can post measurents and pics if anyone is interested in buying some/all.