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The HU 4wd Forum and what does it need to make better?
Hi,
I received an email from a user (Ronny) with some good ideas especially for the 4wd forums section: (his comments indented, my comments noted) I drive a Defender and therefor most of all like to read about things about 4x4-things. In other forums I read there is parts for questions about cars, about maps, about workshops for cars, about motors, about tours and trips and on and on. Could this be something for you? As I can see now everything goes into each other and there is a lot to read before I find what i'm looking for. Maybe treads like this: 4x4 cars - field repairs - workshops in different areas - where to get parts or help - known problems to carsGrant: SOME of that is in the 4wd forums, but it could absolutely be better. Grant: All covered in the main sections of the site. Grant: See the GPS forum Grant: See the Trip Planning forums or the regional forums Grant: We don't have much of this for 4wd, perhaps it needs to be added. See wikis comments below. Grant: See the Travellers seeking Travellers Forum! Grant: Most of that is covered in the various technical forums for bikes, not sure how good it is for cars. Unfortunately I have no time to spend in that area, so leave it up to the people who use it to let me know what is needed. Anyone else have any thoughts / comments? What are we missing in the 4wd section? Note that I really do not want to create a whole new set of sections like Planning or GPS etc, as it's all much the same and dilutes the content badly. However that doesn't mean we don't need to shake things up a bit! Let me know what you think while we are working on the whole site upgrade so we have something to work with when the time comes. thanks! |
Hi Grant How about sticky posts for the different sections electrical, mechanical etc? All posters burn out after awhile repeating answers to generic questions. Much of 4x4 touring is just following the basics. The sticky posts would evolve over time. Many new people don't know how to search a site and so embarrass themselves with simple questions
Cheers Rob |
More active moderation would help sometimes, although the LC / LR thing does seem to have died down a bit which is really good as its not good for the forums and very very boring
How about an 'Above 3.5 tonnes' section for drivers of heavier vehicles as their requirements / laws / licensing etc can be quite different (for instance if you passage thru austria and use the motorways you need a little black box to record your progress and pay your taxes over 3.5 tonnes) Repair shops section would be good. The forum title, actually says 4 wheels , not 4x4 so maybe a 2wd section heading Origional poster said something about equipment - so a section discussing equipment specific to 4 wheeled vehicles would be a good addition. This is everything from fridges, jacks compressors, mechanical mods would be better in specific vehicle forums imho. |
Not having a separate Landrover and Landcruiser section, there is enough type specific forums out there for people to get all tribal on and this place is about travel and overlanding IMO.
Vehicle build up / show us your vehicle type section, I love seeing other peoples ideas. I also like the idea of an equipment section as well. :thumbup1: Somehow encourage more 4 wheel travel reports, I know of people who have been to some fantastic places but just keep quiet on here about it, I for one would love to learn more from the experienced guys out there. |
I'm fairly new to the site, 4x4's and overlanding and signed up here because thats whats covered.
I'm not so much interested in 4x4 only sites and there are plenty on offer it thats your thing. When it comes to browsing the hubb I only really look in the sahara forum and 4x4. Looking at the current set up everything seems to be covered, obvioulsly the bike tech is bigger than the 4x4 due to the diversity of bikes in use. My suggestions would be to Merge the LR, LC and other 4x4 tech forums into a 4x4 tech forum (there are plenty of marque specific BB's out there and wrt overlanding the tech seems to cross these boundaries. Maybe a >3.5 tonnes section as rclafton suggested as these vehicles have different issues. Really like the idea of a Readers Rides/show off your vehicle section (maybe divided into Bikes, 4 Wheels >3.5 tonnes) Maybe look at the titles of the general sections and the details of each to make these appear slightly less bike orientated, for example Retitle the first section removing Ride Tales and make that Trip Reports in general. I think sometimes when I do browse other sections I generally feel they are for bikes. Just a feeling really but sometime I find myself thinking "would this be the place for a 4wd post" |
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the HUBB has grown pretty much piecemeal for years and it's current appearance shows that, starkly. As per the last post, a few examples:- 1. The website for motorcycle travellers 2. An annual calendar of motorbike travel 3. Ride Tales 4. Organised tours (by bike naturally) 5. Shipping bikes 6.Motorcycle events around the world 7. The "want ads" section does not include for 4 wheels - that has ads for want/sale that are entirely separate 8. Repair shops recommended around the world - with bikes in mind There are probably other examples, these were just pulled out from a very quick review of the HUBB alone - I know that if someone enters via the homepage then they would be hard pressed to know the breadth of subject matter within here. Indeed, they may well write it off as being too specialist - for motorbikes alone - and move on in their web searching. I do think that the site needs to have an appearance that is more logical but that will need to be very carefully balanced with the origins of the site (it was I who suggested the inclusion of a bicycle section a few years ago, and that has had limited readership and input - yes, there are lots of competing websites for that also). Contrary, to some views, I think that the 4 wheel section (should there be a 6x6 section??) needs to be broken down into specific vehicle interests - obviously, that includes areas for LR and LC). At the very least, to do this would replicate the layout for the bikes section. Recently, I added a thread about the Nissan X trail, but there are a few Nissan models and I think there is scope for a section to cover that marque of vehicle - Yes, bikes are diverse, but so are 4 wheeled vehicles, probably more so because of the different body configurations and the weights involved + as mentioned above the licencing requirements (including driving licences in the case of the UK) are more complex. I don't envy you making these decisions, Grant!! |
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And specific suggestions too. If a number of people agreed we need x y and z forums, that's actually easy. Deciding what they are is the hard part! So be specific, let me know what you need and we'll do what we can. Note that I've ALWAYS been open to suggestions - you folks just need to make them :) Understand that there is absolutely no way I can remotely know what you need here in the 4 wheels area. You need something, just say so! I'd love to do a lot of stuff, and there is new stuff coming. "Garages" for instance are in the plans, also wikis for all the same old same old stuff. Thanks for all the thoughts guys, it's all helpful. Keep 'em coming! |
Something like this Grant ?
Leaving the blacktop Stock 4x4 and 2x4 Out of the showroom and into the mud. How capable are they? Basic upgrades 4x4 and 2x4 Roof racks, Air compressors , refrigerators, Gps, snatch-straps, hand winches, extending breather tubes, first-aid kits, puncture repair, toolkits etc. Major upgrades 4x4 Lift kits, winches, diff-locks, snorkels, twin batteries, storage drawers,long range fuel tanks, cargo barriers, water tanks, turbos etc. Bush mechanic Don't panic, make a cup of tea and lets see what we've got in our bag of tricks. Driving techniques 4x4 and 2x4 Mud, sand, clay and rock, either uphill or down. Long distance touring The tips to make it comfortable, cooking, chairs, tents, bedding, toilets, awnings, entertaining the kids. etc. |
Grant - come on be real - consensus - us !
OK My proposal would be to leave the current headings as they are to aid searching, otherwise what do you do ith the old posts, no one is going to sort them into new sub sections, also the great number of queries are on the rover / toyota marques so i think they should stay I think we should recognise that this is an adventure motorcycling site and Grant allows us a little table in the corner to mutter about more than 2 wheels, and alot of the info does overlap between different forms of transport so no need to recreate the GPS stuff etc. Is this the way you intend to continue or do you want to make it more vehicle dependant travel orientated generically, thats a Grant type decision I would leave the tech forums alone - the other forums tend to cater for 'how do i put a 14 inch lift on my discovery / cruiser / suzuki etc' where as I think we here are a little more carefull and pragmatic So I would go for new headings as follows : 2 Wheel Drive : Neglected for far too long - how far can you get in a diff locked merc 4x2 or a renault twingo Over 3.5 Tonnes : space for the big boys or wannabes like my 4.5 tonner Softroaders / lightweight/pickups : nissans / freelanders / subarus / 4x4 pickups et al Bush Mechanics i like the idea of Touring gear : ie the camping kit / fridges / torches / tents / cooking kit / braais etc, again different from the bikes as we carry more Garages/repair shops you seem to have in hand Shipping - very different from the motorbike world Driving techniques Members rigs : Done on the overlander site, may be of interest Spares availability : Is this in garages or do we need a seperate space. Where to get a mitsubishi alternator in ulan bator or is the only place to get a 255/100/16 tyre these days in Luton ? This one is interesting and could either be big or ignored. We keep a spreadsheet of compatible parts worldwide for Iveco Dailys - could this be done for other marques If we split it down too far we may actually risk being too granular so i'm gonna stop now. Next question , how do we get concensus so Grant can act, ive included my own ideas plus other peoples , i think the softroader one could be interesting to watch with the prices falling |
I'm TRYING to be real... I DID say SOME consensus... ;) maybe not much but I'll take what I can get! :) And yes I DO know you guys! :rofl:
I see two options thus far - twobob and rich both have ideas - I think Rich has taken twobobs ideas and added/tweaked. Let's hear some opinions on them. I confess I like where Rich has gone with the list, but my opinion here doesn't count for much, it's what you guys want / need. "too granular" - yes this can be an issue. I have tended to wait till a forum is getting significant traffic before splitting it up - not sure if that's the right way to go, but there's nothing worse than a forum with three posts! Moving threads is a BIG job for a moderator, AND is an issue with bookmarks and links form other sites and google, so the less we move stuff the better. We can leave a permanent redirect where needed, so we don't have the issue but hundreds of redirects sucks too. "Bush Mechanics" - we have this on the mc side, "Bodgers Forum" so sure. Makes some sense to replicate the Repair Forums section from the mc side here too. I think. there is a small argument that ANY shop could be useful if needed in really remote areas. |
A few more thoughts and ideas on forums/names and I'll post a poll where you can make multiple choices :)
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The list 2.0 (a work in progress)
2x4, & Softroaders Lightweight/pickups, nissans / freelanders / subarus / 4x4 pickups Under 3.5 Tonnes landrovers, landcruisers, nissans etc. (under sub-headings ?) Over 3.5 Tonnes Unimogs. Iveco, Okas etc. the big stuff (under sub-headings ?) Touring Gear Roof racks,toolkits, air compressors, refrigerators, snatch-straps, winchs, first-aid kits, puncture repair, lift kits, diff locks, snorkels, twin batteries, storage drawers, long range fuel tanks, cargo barriers, water tanks, turbos, jacks. Bush mechanic Don't panic, make a cup of tea and lets see what weve got in our bag of tricks. Driving techniques 4x4 and 2x4 Mud, sand, clay and rock, either uphill or down and tyre/wheel selection Long distance touring The tips to make it comfortable, cooking, chairs, bedding, toilets, awnings, entertaining the kids. Shipping Repair shops Truck and bike mechanic list Members rigs Post photos here |
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I like that twobob, missing a travel report section though. Maybe you could think up a "tang line" to encourage more input? Just a few photos and a few lines for each can stimulate a thread of interesting questions and responses. bier |
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Touring Gear Vehicle Adapatation Roof racks,toolkits, air compressors, refrigerators, snatch-straps, winchs, first-aid kits, puncture repair, lift kits, diff locks, snorkels, twin batteries, storage drawers, long range fuel tanks, cargo barriers, water tanks, turbos, jacks. Home From Home The tips to make it comfortable, cooking, chairs, bedding, toilets, awnings, entertaining the kids. |
The list 2.1 (a work in progress)
2x4 & Softroaders Lightweight/pickups, nissans / freelanders / subarus / 4x4 pickups Under 3.5 Tonnes landrovers, landcruisers, nissans etc. (under sub-headings ?) Over 3.5 Tonnes Unimogs. Iveco, Okas etc. the big stuff (under sub-headings ?) Touring Gear Vehicle Adapatation Roof racks,toolkits, air compressors, refrigerators, snatch-straps, winchs, first-aid kits, puncture repair, lift kits, diff locks, snorkels, twin batteries, storage drawers, long range fuel tanks, cargo barriers, water tanks, turbos, jacks. Home From Home The tips to make it comfortable, cooking, chairs, bedding, toilets, awnings, entertaining the kids. Bush mechanic Don't panic, make a cup of tea and lets see what weve got in our bag of tricks. Driving techniques 4x4 and 2x4 Mud, sand, clay and rock, either uphill or down and tyre/wheel selection Shipping Repair shops and spare parts Truck and bike mechanics/suppliers list Photos/Tales Post photos and travel stories here Don't be shy, show us ya rigs. (alright, this one won't make the cut ;) ) |
The list is getting there but where does the wanted/ for sale part for vehicles with more than two wheels need to be?
In the bigger picture of the whole of the HUBB, I guess there could be a for sale/wanted section, maybe sub-divided for more specialist categories - motorbikes, 2 wheel drive, 4 wheel drive, equipment etc etc. :offtopic:somewhat, but since Grant is asking for feedback about his site, I hope that it doesn't move toward extensive use of facebook, twitter and whatever; I have noticed some posts using links to these and I am one who is never going to join such social networking, no matter how pervasive they become. On a detailed note about an earlier post, I have posted about the Freelander and that went into the LR section - after all, they are part of the Landrover family even if those with the big ones don't like that fact. |
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To have a generic "all in" forum about all 4x4 would mean that my recent post about the X Trail would disappear from sight very quickly; the equivalent would be to ask a question about the Triumph Bonneville in among a load of posts that are slagging off the modern BMW bikes, or are telling us for the 100th time just how good the Yam XT600 really is. |
The list 2.2 (a work in progress)
2x4 & Softroaders General questions X-trails Freelanders cont.... Under 3.5 Tonnes General questions Landrovers Landcruisers Nissans cont.... Over 3.5 Tonnes General questions Unimogs Iveco Okas cont.... Touring Gear Vehicle Adapatation Roof racks, toolkits, air compressors,, snatch-straps, winchs, , puncture repair, lift kits, diff locks, snorkels, twin batteries, , long range fuel tanks, cargo barriers, water tanks, turbos, jacks. Home From Home The tips to make it comfortable, cooking,storage drawers, refrigerators chairs, bedding, toilets, awnings,first-aid kits, entertaining the kids. Bush mechanic Don't panic, make a cup of tea and lets see what weve got in our bag of tricks. Driving techniques 4x4 and 2x4 Mud, sand, clay and rock, either uphill or down and tyre/wheel selection Shipping Repair shops and spare parts Truck and bike mechanics/suppliers list Photos/Tales Post photos and travel stories here For sale and wanted You look my shop? for you very good price |
2x4 & Softroaders
Lightweight/pickups, nissans / freelanders / subarus / 4x4 pickups ----- I still think that lightweight (softroaders etc) and 4x2 should be split, we need to highlight the possibilities of 4x2 Under 3.5 Tonnes landrovers, landcruisers, nissans etc. (under sub-headings ?) ----- Many people won't know where to look for details if they are new, i'd keep the existing headings LR / LC and others , its the others section that is quieter anyway and will be quieter still with the other new forums. As a general principal I think we should keep sub forums at the highest level possible rather than going into sub forums Over 3.5 Tonnes Unimogs. Iveco, Okas etc. the big stuff (under sub-headings ?) ----- Sub headings not needed , it will get too granular and not enough activity, also as it may concern paperwork and licenses etc then that is generic Touring Gear Vehicle Adapatation Roof racks,toolkits, air compressors, refrigerators, snatch-straps, winchs, first-aid kits, puncture repair, lift kits, diff locks, snorkels, twin batteries, storage drawers, long range fuel tanks, cargo barriers, water tanks, turbos, jacks. Home From Home The tips to make it comfortable, cooking, chairs, bedding, toilets, awnings, entertaining the kids. ----- Again keep them at a higher level, vehicle adaption would have an overlap with vehicle forums (sorry are diff locks adaptions - you mean you don't get them as standard ? :clap:), maybe call it accessories rather than adaptions Bush mechanic Don't panic, make a cup of tea and lets see what weve got in our bag of tricks. Driving techniques 4x4 and 2x4 Mud, sand, clay and rock, either uphill or down and tyre/wheel selection Shipping Repair shops and spare parts Truck and bike mechanics/suppliers list Photos/Tales Post photos and travel stories here Don't be shy, show us ya rigs. (alright, this one won't make the cut ;) Given that google seems to reference the hubb very well, lets try and keep links intact, we can change the descriptions without changing the links for trip reports and then add in the members trucks section But I think we are getting there............. |
"(sorry are diff locks adaptions - you mean you don't get them as standard ? ), maybe call it accessories rather than adaptions"
I installed an after-market air operated diff lock on my Landcruiser also there are Detroit lockers Rich |
"Many people won't know where to look for details if they are new, i'd keep the existing headings LR / LC and others , its the others section that is quieter anyway and will be quieter still with the other new forums. As a general principal I think we should keep sub forums at the highest level possible rather than going into sub forums "
Hey Rich what about listing by make as sub-headings and rely on sticky posts for models? |
As a commited 'lurker' on this and many other forums where I blatantly steal and adapt other peoples ideas I thought I would chuck in my two penneth worth.
My personal opinion is 4x4 is 4x4, regardless of softness or hardness. I have seen trip reports of Freelanders in the Sahara and other places. Is a Range Rover a 'soft roader' or is it those without low range? It's a difficult call as to what is or isn't so, my opinion is 4x4 is 4x4 keep the 2x4 stuff seperate. In support of this, if I was planning a cross africa trip in a 2x4 Citroen 2cv I wouldn't want to wade through endless topics about Nissan X-Trails or Honda CRVs. It has been mentioned before that there are plenty of marque specific forums on the net where you can find out about the latest 74" lift kit or nuclear powered dif lock specifc to your vehicle. What makes this forum stand out (for me) is it's key focus on travel, overlanding, exploration and (most of all) sharing between like minded people. I'm a committed (and probably should be) LR fan but I have gained a lot of inspiration and ideas from seeing what other have done to, and with, their LCs, G wagons, etc. etc. Lets not pander to the 'my marque is better than your marque' club other wise you will end up with a seperate board for a multiude of brands. Keep it simple, keep the focus on the journeys, preparations before hand and keeping going when you're on them. So for me it would be simple and pretty similar to some of the previous: 2x4 What is says on the tin 4x4 Under 3.5 Tonnes Bung them all in together. You never know someone may even be forced over to the dark side if they read about another marque! There is a search function if people only want to look for one model type. Over 3.5 Tonnes I don't know how many marques there are here but I doubt we need to sub divide. Again thats' what 'search' is for Touring Gear (as posted earlier-totally agree with the comment to keep vehicle mods/adaptations to the marque specific forums) Vehicle Adapatation Roof racks,toolkits, air compressors, refrigerators, snatch-straps, winchs, first-aid kits, puncture repair, lift kits, diff locks, snorkels, twin batteries, storage drawers, long range fuel tanks, cargo barriers, water tanks, turbos, jacks. Home From Home The tips to make it comfortable, cooking, chairs, bedding, toilets, awnings, entertaining the kids. Bush mechanic How to keep the journey going. I would also like to see field bodges and make do's to get you out of trouble. Not sure if it fits in here. Driving techniques 4x4 and 2x4 Totally agree Shipping I can definately see a use for this being seperate to the bikes section and one I will personaly use. Repair shops and spare parts Suggest that this is 4 wheel specific. The any port in a storm cover (Bike or 4W) fits into buch mechanics IMHO. Photos/Tales Definately worth having as this is where you can get your best inspiration. Final comment. The fewer boards the better (IMHO) the more sub-categories you have, often the more difficult it is to decide which one you post goes in. Now I'll shut up and go back to lurking:innocent: |
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My Iveco comes with front and rear diff locks as standard, my Isuzu pickup has a limited slip diff as standard so I was just being mischevious to folks who arn't so lucky.:D |
Combining the LC & LR forums will only work imho if its moderated well otherwise someone posts about which version of disco to buy and gets told which version of LC they should really buy. It really undervalues these forums and puts people off Sorry but sometimes you have to manage folks and those 2 forums do at least do that (sometimes). Lets not throw out what works
Oh someone commented on the Wanted/for Sale section - I've taken that as a given that it stays Twobob - so when you say sub-headings, you mean just text or actual sub-forums ? ralph - I still think theres a difference between softroaders / pickups and other HD 4x4's , they have different requirements like 4x2 and so I think a seperate area would actually allow people to see that they can use these and get places and the posts not be hidden in the mass of LR & LC posts, and its not an area thats well covered by other forums so may be a traffic generator for the site which helps Grant |
Here's another aspect
So, I have used the HUBB search function (which, reference a remark above, is widely acknowledged to be not as good as a google search) for Quads:-
Horizons Unlimited Motorcycle Travel Search because, over the years, there have been a few instances of posts about Quads - both 4x2 and 4x4 I guess - turning up in the motorbike threads. In some cases those posts start with the statement "I didn't know where to put this, so I'll post it here"! |
A slight heading change could probably allow a single heading at the less extreme end
4X2 & AWD This would cater for the softroaders as many are awd rather than full strength 4x4 with hilo . I agree re LC and LR being separate to preempt the usual conflict once you are away from these two Other 4x4 will cover the rest and help avoid semi dormant threads as there are usually less making these choices Over 3.5t covers prettywell anthing left going up from unimog /DAF to MAN/Tatra a lot rarer selection . Touring gear -feedback section might be useful to include in there as some of the stuff can be a bit disapointing at the least if its ever used ! I find sections in the motorcyle area can be browsed that cover things relevant to general travel . Personally I think its pretty right as it is , and agree with the anti granulation comments JMHO |
The list 2.3 (a work in progress)
Two Wheel Drive Half the traction, twice the talent Under 3.5 Tonnes 4x4 General questions/discussions Landrover tech Landcruiser tech Over 3.5 Tonnes General questions/discussions Unimogs, Iveco, Okas etc. The big stuff Generic vehicle accessories Home From Home and essentials- Roof racks, winchs, lift kits, diff locks, snorkels, twin batteries, long range fuel tanks, cargo barriers, water tanks, turbos, jacks. cooking, storage drawers, refrigerators chairs, bedding, toilets, awnings, air compressors, snatch-straps,puncture repair, first-aid kits, toolkits etc. Bush mechanic Don't panic, make a cup of tea and lets see what weve got in our bag of tricks. Driving techniques 4x4 and 2x4 Mud, sand, clay and rock, either uphill or down and tyre/wheel selection Shipping Repair shops and spare parts Truck and 4x4 mechanics/suppliers list and recommendations Photos/Tales Post photos and travel stories here Uulanbataar or Sainsburys, where have you been? For sale and wanted You look my shop? for you very good price ( Vehicle accessories advertising could be an income stream, so I left it up there for now, got to get this site paid for :) ) Rob |
I only used Adaptation as I wanted to be different from modification (tend to think of mods as changed vehicle components and thought adaptation covered sleeping platforms storage etc)
one quick q why>3.5 tonnes? is a uk legislation driving the limit as the bb gets a multinational usage. |
Rich re sub-forums or sticky posts. Initially a permanent sub forum if not used would be a waste, where as "sticky posts" could earn their stripes and become permanent
"one quick q why>3.5 tonnes? is a uk legislation driving the limit as the bb gets a multinational usage." Warden Here in Australia the rules have changed over the last few years can't speak for the UK or others also it is another world as far as 4x4 goes , I mean what can you do to the things except polish them (steady on Rich ;) ) plus driving skills are a little different. But if the big boys are happy to join us great unwashed you get no complaints from me |
The list 2.3a (a work in progress)
Here's how it looks without weight Two Wheel Drive Half the traction, twice the talent Four Wheel Drive General questions/discussions Landrover tech Landcruiser tech Big Rig tech Generic vehicle accessories Home From Home and essentials- Roof racks, winchs, lift kits, diff locks, snorkels, twin batteries, long range fuel tanks, cargo barriers, water tanks, turbos, jacks. cooking, storage drawers, refrigerators chairs, bedding, toilets, awnings, air compressors, snatch-straps,puncture repair, first-aid kits, toolkits etc. Bush mechanic Don't panic, make a cup of tea and lets see what weve got in our bag of tricks. Driving techniques 4x4 and 2x4 Mud, sand, clay and rock, either uphill or down and tyre/wheel selection Shipping Repair shops and spare parts Truck and 4x4 mechanics/suppliers list and recommendations Photos/Tales Post photos and travel stories here Uulanbataar or Sainsburys, where have you been? For sale and wanted You look my shop? for you very good price What do you think Rich ? |
Fantastic guys well done, but just my thoughts :)
Don't miss out Members Overlander vehicles (or whatever) Maybe's Repair shops and spare parts Bush mechanic Driving techniques 4x4 and 2x4 The rest really good, just IMO :thumbup1: |
Hey 24/7 "Members Overlander vehicles" Included in Photos/travel ?
This a generally accepted framework to help the Admin create a voting list Keep your eye out for the poll we'll all decide then bier |
3.5 tonnes is a european wide split point and also a good indicator of shall we call them 'standard' 4x4 (LR/LC/Trooper/Patrol/Pajaro) , above that they are small truck upwards to a man kat ! (even a landrover 101 is plated higher than 3.5 tonnes). With trucks I wouldn't get hung up on all wheel drive or 4x2 etc etc as it just gets to complex
I prefer 2.3 to 2.3a , I still think a softroader section should be seperate, don't really care what people class modern rangerovers as cos I wouldn't take one further than the AA (other rescue organisations are available) can get to you. But I think we are pretty close, i'm off for the weekend now so i'll read comments with interest on sunday/monday |
The list 2.4 (a work in progress)
(a little brevity and "possible" headings) Two Wheel Drive Half the traction, twice the talent Four Wheel Drive General questions/discussions Landrover tech Landcruiser tech Big Rig tech Driving techniques 4x4 and 2x4 Mud, sand, clay and rock, either uphill or down and tyre/wheel selection Generic vehicle accessories Home From Home and essentials- Roof racks, winchs, lift kits, diff locks, snorkels, twin batteries, long range fuel tanks, cargo barriers, water tanks, turbos, jacks. cooking, storage drawers, refrigerators chairs, bedding, toilets, awnings, air compressors, snatch-straps,puncture repair, first-aid kits, toolkits etc. Bush mechanic, Repair shops and Spare parts Don't panic, make a cup of tea and lets see what weve got in our bag of tricks. Truck and 4x4 mechanics/suppliers list and recommendations Shipping Photos/Tales Post photos and travel stories here Uulanbataar or Sainsburys, where have you been? For sale and wanted You look my shop? for you very good price arbitrary headings Weight >3.5 tonne Awd/softroaders what have I missed ? |
Had a few days away from this now so fresh eyes - Version 2.5 ?
Bold titles are the headings i suggest Two Wheel Drive tech- new addition Landrover tech - all models(no change) Toyota tech - so it includes the whole model range (no change) Other 4wd overland tech (no change,), vehicles and generic technical questions like how do i get that slit rim apart truck tech - needs defining hence my suggestion of over 3.5 tonnes Driving techniques 4x4 and 2x4 Mud, sand, clay and rock, either uphill or down and tyre/wheel selection Generic vehicle accessories Home From Home and essentials- Roof racks, winchs, lift kits, diff locks, snorkels, twin batteries, long range fuel tanks, cargo barriers, water tanks, turbos, jacks. cooking, storage drawers, refrigerators chairs, beilets, awnings, air compressors, snatch-straps,puncture repair, first-aid kits, toolkits etc.Don't like this one, doesn't feel right, i think vehicle stuff like snorkels, tanks, turbos, tools etc is actually vehicle tech and splitting it off is confusing, I think going back to my origional idea , see below Touring gear & Comfortable travelling - bedding, mattresses, swags, cookers, gas chairs, tents, fridges, medical kits,awnings, storage solutions Bush mechanic, Repair shops and Spare parts Don't panic, make a cup of tea and lets see what weve got in our bag of tricks. Truck and 4x4 mechanics/suppliers list and recommendations Shipping Photos/Tales Post photos 0f vehicles and travel stories here - already exisits as 4 wheel travel reports , maybe needs making a little less formal title 4wd overland travel - existing area for non techical questions that don't fit elsewhere, may lose traffic due to other forums such as shipping but worth keeping as a catchall - could it be renamed 4 wheel overland travel For sale and wanted - 4 wheels You look my shop? for you very good price I still like the idea of a softroader area but the name is slightly derogatory so what about lifestyle 4x4 / awd to cover the use of subaru's, nissan x trails, volvos, freelands rav4's , kias etc etc as there issues are different from the more traditional 4x4's and having there own area will actually attract questions and stories in the long term That gives us 7 new titles, how much traffic they get will be interesting , will we just see the same traffic but split across the new titles or this change may give Grant an opportunity to market the hubb as an area of interest not just for bikers but 4 wheels + as well so increase traffic. Ive suggested keeping the existing forums to make it easy for Grant and Google as the last thing the site needs is a load of broken links pointing to it |
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Sorry folks, I've come to this a little late and might not have much new to add but here are a few thoughts in addition to the above.
A FAQ. might be useful for newcomers, either marque specific or '4 wheels' wide. Basic maintenance before a trip. A list of marque specific forums for serious technical stuff. (we're never going to do it as well and why try) Recovery equipment etc etc A category for tyres would be good. Why bury all the good info deep in the land rover section - we all need tyres, even on a 2cv. A readers car section - lets show off - this is likely to provoke some lively discussion. A 4 wheels 'Bar' for the perennial mine's smaller and I can travel without looking like a christmas tree banter. I'd like to think this could go in the general 'Bar' but in practice we are on 4 wheels and that's that. Don't forget that your local is someones expedition destination so show us where you go if it might be interesting to far off friends. As I say, just a few thoughts, might find some more if you're lucky. Thanks for everyones hard work. |
I'd like to see a readers rides type section so we can show off our vehicle's of choice without getting in the way of trip report, technical sections etc.
It wouldn't need to be 4 wheel specific maybe a new cross board forum subdivided into Readers Rides Show us your transport of choice 2 Wheels Bikes a place for those short of 2 wheels :tt2: 4+ Wheels Cars, 4x4's, Trucks. If it's got more that 2 show it here Non Wheeled Across Mongolia by Rollerskate, Poland by Pogo stick? Non wheeled modes of transport |
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Why not call it non-motorized travelling? Hans |
doh I wasn't thinking
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List 2.6 (a work in progress)
FAQs and Photos- Frequently asked questions and readers rides (nice one silverG) note- A faq section doesn't generate much traffic so I thought it a good place for photos to hang around longer The Campfire- Y'know, the place to tell your stories that start with " No sh!t, there I was, thought I was going to die....." ( just throwing it in there guys) All vehicles 4x4 and 2x4- General questions/discussions and driving techniques Two Wheel Drive tech- Landrover tech - all models Toyota tech - all models Truck tech - over 3.5 tonnes Comfortable travelling and essentials- New products and stuff you just love - bedding, mattresses, swags, cookers, gas chairs, tents, fridges, medical kits, awnings, storage solutions etc. Tyres and wheels- the endless discussion ;) Bush mechanic, Repair shops and Spare parts Don't panic, make a cup of tea and lets see what weve got in our bag of tricks. Truck and 4x4 mechanics/suppliers list and recommendations Shipping & 4 wheel overland travel stories (mmm.. needs work) For sale and wanted - You look my shop? for you very good price Stop Press new suggestion Non motorized- .. err.. I think they're called legs :smartass: |
I like the way this is going.
One thing that may be missing is how we live while travelling, and tips and tricks around that. Much of this is covered in the bike sections, but for 4x4 overland travel, it's very very different. For example, we try to never stay in towns, and have the capacity to go for a good few days between fuel/food stops. This is VERY different to most bike trips, and therefore has different dynamics in a trip. Also our pace of travel is typically slower, with less KM covered per day. I'm wondering where we cover stuff like, What's in your larder? How do you sort our getting Laundry done, where do you carry rubbish, what gas bottle connecter you need in this country etc? Do you carry hichhikers? What roads are too small for large trucks? These questions probably have no relevance to bike trips. Maybe we need something to handle this kind of stuff? Merv. |
Lots of great stuff here guys, thanks! :)
Any last comments? I'm going to get this done early next week, so last chance to get YOUR thoughts listened to! Oh alright yes I'll ALWAYS listen, BUT this is the time to get it actually DONE! :) What about Merv's thoughts on "what's in your larder" etc? Does it fit in with the above categories - nicely summarized by twobob? Any thoughts on his descriptions / headings? thanks for your input! Remember you'll have to live with any changes... |
Guys, please copy the list below, add/subtract what you want, give it a new number and paste/post, it's not precious ?c?
List 2.7 (a work in progress) FAQs and Photos- Frequently asked questions and readers rides (nice one silverG) note- A faq section doesn't generate much traffic so I thought it a good place for photos to hang around longer The Campfire- Y'know, the place to tell your stories that start with " No sh!t, there I was, thought I was going to die....." ( just throwing it in there guys) All vehicles 4x4 and 2x4- General questions/discussions and driving techniques Two Wheel Drive tech- Landrover tech - all models Toyota tech - all models Truck tech - over 3.5 tonnes On the road - Safety, comfort, cooking and essentials- Recipes, new products and stuff you just love - bedding, mattresses, swags, cookers, gas chairs, tents, fridges, medical kits, toilets, awnings, storage solutions etc. Tyres and wheels- the endless discussion Bush mechanic, Repair shops and Spare parts Don't panic, make a cup of tea and lets see what weve got in our bag of tricks. Truck and 4x4 mechanics/suppliers list and recommendations Shipping & 4 wheel overland travel stories For sale and wanted - You look my shop? for you very good price |
Got for it as per 2.7. Once we start using it we will know where we went wrong, which is a bit like building and using an overland vehicle, and we learn pretty quick to make do with what we have built.
So, as more than one person said to me when I was planning to start overlanding, just do it! Merv.:D |
2.8
FAQs and Photos- Frequently asked questions and readers rides (nice one silverG) note- A faq section doesn't generate much traffic so I thought it a good place for photos to hang around longer The Campfire- Y'know, the place to tell your stories that start with " No sh!t, there I was, thought I was going to die....." ( just throwing it in there guys) All vehicles 4x4 and 2x4- General questions/discussions and driving techniques Two Wheel Drive tech- Landrover tech - all models Toyota tech - all models Truck tech - over 3.5 tonnes On the road - Safety, comfort, cooking and essentials- Recipes, new products and stuff you just love - bedding, mattresses, swags, cookers, gas chairs, tents, fridges, medical kits, toilets, awnings, storage solutions etc. Tyres and wheels- the endless discussion Bush mechanic, Repair shops and Spare parts Don't panic, make a cup of tea and lets see what weve got in our bag of tricks. Truck and 4x4 mechanics/suppliers list and recommendations Shipping & 4 wheel overland travel stories For sale and wanted - You look my shop? for you very good price DRIVING TECHNIQUES (Sorry, can't find the bold button). - includes for driving schools, offroad centres etc This does not need to break down into 4x4, 2 wheel drive - this will happen in the threads I guess. A general comment; There is quite a lot of overlap with the bikes, but not completely. So, it depends how much Grant intends to change. Some areas of interest that have kindred posts (or can have):- Wild camping Repair shops around the world Recommended accommodation worldwide Shipping |
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Ride Tales, Trip Reports and Stories - The HUBB Travel Stories, Blogs is not a forum it just takes you to a page - which could be a forum, e.g Repair Shops. Comments? |
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So, we are talking here about the whole website and not the portion given over to 4 wheel travel. For a long time I never read the 4 wheel stuff, being a bike rider at heart, but I am getting older, so needs do as needs must. Therefore, this question of developing the bit about 4 wheels relates directly to where you see the site going, this year, next year, whenever. I have taken another look at the overlap and it is much more than I listed, and more than I realised, depending on the perceptions that are closely involved in my paragraph above. From top to bottom, the site has fora which relate to bikes alone and yet many of them are generic to any form of travel on wheels -- Tours Route Planning Shipping the bike Any of the regional forums (all 12 of them) "Equipment and Travel" section - all 5 fora The HU bar (doesn't have to be for bike riders only, nor does it say that, I think) After that lot, if an individual is still scrolling down the site then they will come to a bit about bicycles, closely followed by the bit for 4 wheels. + sales of 4 wheels is in the 4 wheel section and not within the bit labelled "Want ads" which actually covers sales, swops etc of bikes (+ something about "money" which is bizarre really). Just some more feedback Grant, but I can see that it is not easy!! |
2.9 (without my inane ramblings ;) plus driving techniques, Hu bar and brevity)
FAQs and Photos- Frequently asked questions and readers rigs The Hu Bar- All vehicles 4x4 and 2x4- General questions/discussions Two Wheel Drive tech- Landrover tech - all models Toyota tech - all models Truck tech - over 3.5 tonnes On the road - Safety, comfort, cooking and essentials- Recipes, new products and stuff you just love - bedding, mattresses, swags, cookers, gas chairs, tents, fridges, medical kits, toilets, awnings, storage solutions etc. Driving techniques, tyres and wheels- Bush mechanic, repair shops, suppliers and spare parts For sale and wanted - vehicles and equipment. nb. I think both bikers and fourbies would benefit from a combined Shipping section, there's plenty of space in a container for a bike and a car I suppose we do need to work on the differences, eg Bush mechanics and Bike Bodges would speak different languages. Equipment is a major with cars ( Ive decked out both and cars are much harder/expensive) Travel stories combined with bikes ? |
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To me it is a case that is like the very old Irish joke "if I was wanting to get there, I wouldn't start from here" - but the website is what it is and Grant will need to decide if he wants it to morph into something that looks very different (more or less overnight I suppose), or have it evolve, Darwin-like, over a longer time frame. No doubt he will not want to p*ss off his bike following (it was a close run thing a few years back when the XT600 forum became a Yamaha forum). Fourbies; yes, I like that! |
Bump the sticky thread
2 3/4 years later, and here is a "nice" thread that contains a few more ideas while dealing with a range of so-called-softroaders.
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...nordkapp-72894 |
My sincere apologies for not carrying through on this thread, but as you all know that's right when I was going through major medical issues and it fell between the cracks - er - yawning chasms... so let's get it done this time.
I have a few other changes to make to the HUBB, and it's a lot better from an admin pov to get it all in one shot. So, what do you think? Read the other thread, add in your voice! Thanks! |
Grant, I don't think you have to apologise, we all know what a tough time you've had and Im sure I speak for everyone in thanking you for your and Susan's ongoing work that makes the HUBB THE best place for overlanders be it on 2 or 4 wheels
Ive just posted this In the overland tech forum re overhauling the 4WD section. http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...0-2#post488319 Comments welcome. |
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Because: 1. 4WD is an esoteric interest compared with those who just jump into a vehicle and go. 2. Far more "standard" vehicles have been manufactured in the world than 4WD; naturally they are more commonly available therefore. This bit of the forum is labelled as "4 wheels" and then becomes 4WD immediately with a bit of a nod, here and there, to specific makes and models along the way. What about the driver of the 2CV, or the Peugeot 406 or a VW beetle, or campervan for that matter ............ whatever has just 2 driven wheels? Can they expect any level of interest, technical or otherwise, in this site? |
I would say not too many subforums to start with, my list would be:
4 Wheel Trip Reports (Trip Reports for ALL vehicles) 4 Wheel Travel (Non Technical questions) Car Tech <3500kg (Any Make 2&4WD Under this weight) Truck Tech >3500kg (Any Make 2&4WD Over this weight) Equipping the Vehicle (What's the best gear?) Expedition campers (How or where to construct one) For Sale/Wanted GRTZ, Jeroen |
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I also think a dedicated 2WD forum is required within the 4 wheel section to keep up with changing trends, there are lots of people in older vans and newer shape Sprinters, VW, Renault etc etc not to mention cars and small vans that travel without 4WD |
How about:
4 Wheels Trip Reports (Trip Reports for ALL 4 wheeled vehicles) 4 Wheels Travel (Non Technical questions, Driving Techniques, safety, comfort etc) Car Tech (overlanding cars) Light Truck Tech <3500kg (Any Make 2&4WD, includes tires and wheels) Heavy Truck Tech >3500kg (Any Make 2&4WD, includes tires and wheels) Equipping the Vehicle (What's the best gear?) Expedition campers (How or where to construct one) For Sale/Wanted ======================= Expedition campers - I've had one suggestion only, anyone else feel it's a separate thing, or will it fall naturally under the appropriate truck tech? For the overlap stuff such as shipping and repair shops, I'll work on wording for those forums. In the 4 wheels forums I can put what looks like a forum but isn't - it just links to the actual forum/page etc. See the second forum on the main hubb page for how that works. Note that repair shops section says NOTHING about being bike specific, as many of these shops I expect will fix whatever - or know who does. Let me know what you think! ?c??c? |
I am a motorcyclist my self but have been reading this with interest as I eventually my get too old or my body might not take any more.
What about an over 7500kg section as I can only go up to 7500kg on my car licence being from the UK and some people travel in some big vehicles. I would be good to know if I ever decide to go to 4 wheels Just a thought Wayne |
An issue is Car or Truck, nobody in Europe will use the word Truck for any vehicle under 3500kg We would use Car, Van or Pick-up. To avoid misunderstanding this could be solution:
4 Wheels Trip Reports (Trip Reports for ALL 4 wheeled vehicles) 4 Wheels Travel (Non Technical questions, Driving Techniques, safety, comfort etc) Tech for vehicles <3500kg (Any Make 2&4WD, includes tires and wheels) Tech for vehicles >3500kg (Any Make 2&4WD, includes tires and wheels) Equipping the Vehicle (What's the best gear?) Expedition campers (How or where to construct one) For Sale/Wanted I added expedition campers because that is a world on itself. On other forums topics about constructing these kind of campers stay "fresh" for a long period of time, lots of documentation, pictures, tech stuf etc. GRTZ, Jeroen |
My own personal view is that the forum would be most productive - whilst retaining some welcoming familiarity - if arranged like this:
First - the container would ideally be called "4 (Or More) Wheels" - It's not that unusual to find 6 or more wheels on a base vehicle, some people also use specific overlanding trailers; the "4 (Or More) Wheels" title explicitly lets such people know the container is open to them. 1. Trip Reports (Trip reports for ALL 4 wheeled vehicles) - Self explanatory 2. Travelling / On the Road (Driving techniques, recovery, recreation on the road, non-vehicle related gadgets, general hints and tips etc) - An additional 'link' or similar to suitably re-worded forums in the Planning / Trip container on the site would also be useful somewhere here; as outlined by Grant, to cover things relevant to all travellers like shipping / visas / mapping etc 3. Small / Light Overlanding Vehicle Tech (Technical issues, equipment matters, prepping, technical hints and tips etc for 2WD / AWD vehicles where either cooking, eating, recreation or sleeping is (or would be) - with 2 or more occupants - inconvenient or uncomfortable inside of the vehicle) *1 4. Large / Heavy Overlanding Vehicle Tech (Technical issues, equipment matters, prepping, technical hints and tips etc for 2 / AWD vehicles where cooking, eating, recreation and sleeping can (or could) - with 2 or more occupants - all be comfortably and easily accommodated inside of the vehicle) *2 5. 4 Wheels For Sale / Wanted - Self explanatory *1&2 - As before, I feel there's a very natural divide between vehicle types outlined above and the equipment and systems they run. I personally don't think any more tech based sub-forums are required. It should be pretty obvious to 99% of travellers from all over the globe which is the appropriate (of the proposed) sub-forum for them. Any more sub-forums makes it more likely to have unnecessary duplication of relevant-to-everyone information and create too many areas for the impatient reader to search. I think any division based on simple weight could be problematic as - for example - many Euro based off the peg <3,500kg motorcaravans run much the same basic equipment (heaters / cookers / fridges etc) as 18,000kg goliath trucks. Also, different weight limits have different significance in different countries. Thread titles themselves will generally make it obvious if a topic is relevant or interesting or a reader. I don't think it's relevant to split 2 / AWD. At the end of the day we're all just getting from a to b in vehicles with 4 or more wheels. |
I don't see the point/need for an Overland Campers section in its own right. If you doing a camper conversion of a 70 series landcruiser it can go in the light vehicle forum and if your converting a Ural it can go in the heavy section
I do think a 4 Wheel Project forum/sectio would be good where people can document the build of their own vehicle. This is common of most motoring forums. So you'd document your own build in the Projects section, but ask question/advive in the small/large vehicles sections |
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Like this? Expedition campers (How or where to construct the living part) GRTZ, Jeroen |
I agree with the above that a section dedicated to individuals' projects would be nice. Though not a 'forum' - somewhere to showcase builds / conversions would be a bonus.
Any queries about the showcased projects would, I again agree, best be posed/discussed in the relevant tech forum. This might take a bit of work though as each user would need exclusive access to a bit of server space and a ton of IT issues might stand in the way. Steve |
Its probably worth remembering that for some vehicles there are plenty of well established dedicated forums for technical advice, there certainly are plenty of Land Rover/Land Cruiser forums
If I need to find out about servicing, repairs or modifications for my Land Cruiser I use one of the specific land cruiser forums. I use the Hubb for travel information, visas, route planning etc. So in the 4 wheels section my main interest is the overland travel side of adapting the vehicles not the routine servicing and repairs type info I know that LR and Toyota 4x4s have a good forum base elsewhere but other 4 wheeled vehicles maybe not, so a generic light/heavy type approach could fill a bit of a gap for those makes without that info elsewhere on the web |
I can't see what is a problem herein: currently there are only 7 main topics within the 4 wheel bit (and two of them are LC/LR specific), while there are techical sections for nearly every manufacturer of motorbikes.
What is really so difficult about deciding where to post within "4 wheels"?? Nor can I see any reason to "throw away" the LC/LR specific information by amalgamating them; IMO that would kill off both of them for those who own such brands (I am still very surprised that those particular fans haven't posted in here, but I do recall a very highly regarded LC enthusiast saying a few years ago that he had stopped posting in LC specific fora elsewhere because of the BS that they contain). |
The Land Rover and Land Cruiser boards work fine and as others have commented there are dedicated forums elsewhere which serve these marks very well in terms of specific advice. I am sure this is repeated for all manufacturers, regardless of how many wheels.
What isn't catered for very well on the hubb are vans and trucks. I am pretty sure that with such naming, people would quickly figure out what what is meant and what they are interested in. Size isn't everything and it is difficult to draw a line about weight or whether a heavy goods licence is required or whether a vehicle is ex-military. Indeed I had an interesting conversation about this at the Overland Adventure show, with a truck owner who thought the distinction ought be about whether a vehicle had air breaks or not! Vans: Campervans, and panel van conversions, including small military such as Pinzgauer Trucks: Larger cargo vehicles, typically with a separate body mounted upon an external chassis. |
I would just be happy if the 4 four wheeled forums where a bit more active, I know this site is favored by the bikers but it has such a wealth of information it surely should be home to people who are interested in exploring in vehicles.
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For instance, the cycling bit has been in place for a while and it doesn't get a lot of attention but I have noticed that there is a lot of competition out there for the cycling fraternity. |
Try posting more maybe, it might make the 4wheel section more active?
Although the site tag line is "inspiring, informing and connecting traveelers sine 1997" it is very much a bikers site. I know it was set up by bikers and without them the site wouldn't exist but some of the biker users are overly arrogant and at times downright obnoxious to us 4x4 drivers. I forget which thread it was but recently I had to remind some of the vocal users that people here don't just use bikes and some posters found this amazing :rolleyes: WRT revising and improving the structure has anyone looked at the set up on the expeditionportal? they have section for 4x4s, bikes and expedition campers. But general travel advice and equipment forums are not specific to any, yet our equipment sections are mostly bike orientated. |
I'm a bike rider and I agree
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http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ea-why-79558-3 Meanwhile, there are hundreds of folks viewing the 4 wheels section right now as I type, but there hasn't been a posting about LRs for about 2 weeks and there hasn't been a post about LCs since Sept: as you intimate, where has everyone gone? |
yep, I've had to wear mittens and lock up my keyboard with that whole thread................
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getting back on topic
"Equipment Reviews (93 Viewing) Post YOUR REVIEWS of ANY Motorcycle, Camping or Travel Equipment and accessories. Tell us what worked and didn't work for you!" Maybe the descriptions on some general forums sections could be made a little more welcoming to everyone. The example quoted is clearly a very useful thread for everyone to feed back their reviews on kit, but why state "ANY Motorcycle" in the description? It comes across as bike only. Similarly the Ride Tails at the top then further down we have 4 wheels travel reports - why not just have trip reports to cover everyone??? |
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I've only end'ed up here because of a link. So don't flame me out. I've not got a 4x4, or ever owned one. My question is do you own a motor bike or every owned one? You should see the way I treat my car's. Buy something about a grand, then run it in to the deck over the next three four year's. Bin it then do it again. Four wheel transport is a tool that mean's nothing to me as long as it work's. But a bike, a world apart. So where am I going? Do you have a bike. It's a hobby form of travel. When saying that, not one hat fit's all head's. So there are going to be some that fall out of that statement. With a bike you are looking to travel. Eith with-in the UK, or out side it. So this place is a God send for people like me who is looking for information. May be that's why there is more in the way of bike orientated question. I don't think there is a solution to your question. As it's to do with number's. The 4x4 section reflects the amount of people who use that mode of transport, over two wheel traveller's. John933 VVV |
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PPFFFFFFFF.............
Just start the "makeover" of the 4 wheel part of this super forum and stop this discussion. This way it brings nothing!! Keep it simpel, lean and clean for a start, more specific subforums can allways be created later. GRTZ, JP |
On the subject of intolerance, yes, it's regrettable the level of intolerance shown by some on here. I've had some comments from bikers on the forum about being a 'cage driver', just because on here, I'm a 4x4 user.
Recently I have had a series of abusive pms from a member which, although not related directly to me being a 4x4 driver did carry a comment 'perhaps you should leave our motorcyclists forum and piss off in your tin box into the sunset' What they fail to realise in their ignorant self (righteous) obsession is that I did actually used to ride motorbikes, but that's unimportant to them. They can't see passed the end of their own biggoted noses. For some, any one who doesn't ride a bike is a lesser human being. Even within their own kind they slag each other off, BMW riders are posh Walter Mitty characters who never actually ride further than Costa. The level of judgmental bigotry and assumption about people they have never even met or had a discussion with (even online) astounds me. We get a bit of that in 4x4s, the dreaded landrover vs landcruiser debate for example which is unfortunate but, I suppose inevitable, but at least in the main that revolves around the vehicles, not the owners, wheras the BMW debate was very personalised, as are many of the others, such as bikers vs 'cage drivers'. Interestingly, I have never heard a 4x4 user slagging people off for travelling by motorbike!! Equally, drivers of shiny stuff can attract a lot of flak, while it rarely gets directed the other way. It's strange, because it's an attitude that seems at odds with what you would expect of travelers, open minded, receptive etc. |
I definately think an equipment section is long overdue. Equipment is a very individual thing but peoples own experiences really help people make their own buying decisions. The requirements of 4x4 drivers are very different to those of bikers, even when it comes down to things like cookers, tents or sleeping bags.
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Ive been overlanding on bikes for a long time, but then I grew old and have a family, pets and still wish to overland, using a 4x4 is the only option unless you get sidecar - they dont overly excite me personally. Some of the guys carry lots of gear for charity work - try doing that on a bike.....we are ALL overlanders, so be a bit more open minded and dont tell 4x4 drivers we dont have any "passion"- remember that the next time you need your luggage fuel and water carried across 800kms of sand beacause "my bikes too heavy" by one of the guys here in a 4x4 - many of us help motorbikers out when we can, thats the deal, the bikes scout the route, the 4x4 carries the gear, try it sometime - I might even give you a cold Beer in the middle of the Sahara. Its time these changes were just implemented in the 4x4 forum - theres been more than enough discussion already, go with the majority and we can do some fine tuning afterwards. Moggy I hope you have made Grant aware and action has been taken? if not please name and shame this muppet. |
I rode bikes everyday no matter what the weather.. i still love bikes over cars, but now i have chosen to do my RTW trip in a 4x4.
This site is great and i have learnt so much from the information on here regarding paperwork, routes etc etc. To me the 4x4 section appears at best to be an add on and at worse an embarrassment. I know of other 4x4 owners who do much as i do and glean what info they can, but almost ignore "The bit at the bottom" I.E the section dedicated to us. I'm sure the Hubb is missing out on a fast growing sector and would benefit from a higher profile 4x4 section... Put it this way, i would even pay subs for it!!! |
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Remember, we cannot alienate the bike section as that is 90% of the site. BUT we fully agree that the 4x4 section needs work. Hopefully it's not an embarrassment! We will be looking at it by the end of the week for a makeover, should be done with any luck in the next couple of weeks, so get your thoughts and ideas in soon! So, how DO we make it better, and "not an addon"? |
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The HU 4wd Forum and what does it need to make better?
The HU 4wd Forum and what does it need to make better?
It's own website ?c? |
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so here goes - that makes absolutely no sense! doh The loss of a huge store of content and info for that site that is here and shareable by any overland traveller (as noted above on routes, borders etc) would be just plain dumb. The reason the 4 wheelers are here is because of the information that is here and almost nowhere else, and the ethos of overland travel as a way of connecting with other people in the world, and learning about other ways of life that is prevalent here helps too. And I really don't need the extra work or expense of another site too! So, I'm back to doh or maybe just :eek3: You did ask... :) |
I will become a member as the information here is invaluable and appreciated.
Moving the section higher up the list would help... Maybe change titles to include 4x4's such as "Ride/Drive tales" i enjoy reading about both. Put things like equipment reviews together/next to each other in the same section. Equipment bikes Equipment 4x4's Tech bikes Tech cars A lot of the forum works well just as it is. I just think the mode of transport (bike, car) should be before the countries info. I must also admit that i was using the forum for some time before i realised there was a car section. The above comments may or maybe not be helpful...just some random thoughts as i roll out of bed. |
Good luck!
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I mentioned somewhere in one of those threads that you have a difficult tightrope act in this regard and the decisions rest with you (a fact that you well know and understand). I don't think that the changes that you make in the next two weeks or so should be the end of it - evolve or die is how business has to be in the 21st century and that mantra applies to websites also. You might consider changing the 4 wheels section, as per the suggestions you have received to date, and reviewing the whole ethos of the site as it is portrayed to site visitors - I think you have already modified the banner headline slogan in the home page from an earlier wording about motorcycle travellers????? Finally, In recent weeks you have received a level of interest from potential new followers who have an interest in a rather specialist form of travel; seize the day before someone elso does so. No motorcyclist should be upset with that!! |
Dave,
all appreciated, and yes, it's VERY high on the list - hopefully in the next week or so. We have a number of things on the cooker... especially opening up registration for events! Yes the slogan has changed, some time ago - about two or three years... Priorities all have to be juggled and we have so much to do that priorities are HARD and not always obvious! Overland Tonka, some good thoughts there, thanks - now that you're rolled out of bed, anything more? ;) thanks everyone for all the support and ideas! |
I've had bikes (unfortunately bikeless at the moment), both trail (KLR250) and road (CBR600), and have had 4x4's all my life (land rovers, and just bought a project MB G wagen)
We're all "overlanders", whether it be 4x4, 2x1 or 6x6 or whatever. I suspect it's only a small minded group of whichever section that, as said, can't see past the end of their noses. Ignore them, stuff 'em, even laugh at them when they're overloaded and need a help from a horrible 4x4 if that suits you, but remember that the other 99.999% of the users on here would more than willingly share a beer over a camp fire. I can't see that much else needs changing on this forum, as said it's 90% bike orientated anyway, and there's plenty of other 4x4 and bike overland forums if you want just "one" kind to read about. |
Jim..I'm not sure that there is other 4x4 forums that come anywhere close to the information on Overlanding that you find on The Hubb..if there is I've not found it.
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The only thing I've found is expeditionportal but they don't have the same level of country advice etc.
In a way its a bit opposite to here with mostly 4x4 and campers with a few bikes. A great resource for vehicle modifications and kit reviews etc though |
Classification of threads
That was also a question mark in my mind since I started HUBB. as hubbers is a great worldwide world and give to get is sincerely and honestly realised here.
Here goes my personal ideas for this important subject while having Turkish tea at the balcony on this sunny İstanbul day we had after several freezing days.. Yes, there are great information for 4WD. travellers here but I guess subjects are mixed into each other and/or reports are under wrong threads which makes it hard to reach the required information. Uniform accounting plan may be helpful to form a better classification of threads so specific information can easily be reached.Similar separate forum group will be good for cycling world (Cyclists), too. For Example. Will it be better if: Main threads are on continent names base as Europe,asia,africa,america,oceania and each of them have starting threads as; 1- 4WD travel reports and blogs 2- 4WD sos/help me messages 3- 4WD recommended camping areas 4- 4WD recommended continent routes 5- 4WD recommended repair/spare part shops 6- 4WD technologies/getting ready 7- 4WD for sale/wanted 8- 4WD barbecue (let bar belong to 2 WD) Hope will be helpful for a better world we share.. |
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Yeah, sorry, my bad typing... I meant there are lots of other 4x4 forums in general... the only other overland-ish ones I've seen are 4x4overland, but that's a very slow moving forum, and bits of Devon4x4, but they're mainly interested in comp events. This one here is the best followed by expedition exchange. |
4 Wheels forum updated!
UPDATES!
We've spent a lot of time going over all the 4 wheels forums feedback and comments that have been made, shuffled it and made painstaking calculations at great length,... naw, we just tossed it up in the air and let it land... :oops2: Anyway, we made some major changes to the 4 Wheels section of the HUBB, shuffled a few other things around, rewrote some of the descriptive text on forums etc. There will be a few more changes in the next few days, but we've run out of steam for now. :) Let us know what you think, we'll be very interested in your feedback! |
Love the changes.....I started a report about our travels, but never kept it up. That may now all change..I have no idea why moving it up the page has made a difference to my thinking..It just has.
The new titles are good too...the whole Hubb looks more balanced and reads like a family joined together through our common interest...Travel. Well done... Kevin. |
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4 wheels: Let's see how the readers get on with looking for specific technical information about Landrovers and Landcruisers. I'm not sure that it is an improvement to put them all together with all other light-weight vehicles: I used to know where to read about engine issues for the 3 litre LC just as one example. No doubt that information is still in the forum, somewhere. Similarly, there are some earlier threads concerning, again for instance, use of vans for travelling or Nissan X Trails; I guess they are all in the one cooking pot now. |
Going the distance
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e.g. "Connecting - internet cafes, laptops, Palm devices, cell phones - how to connect, use, which one, and Bike to Bike and passenger intercoms" Does anyone use a palm device nowadays? It would be quite possible to amalgamate the whole communications forum with that for "maps, navigation, gps" but I wouldn't want to see that happen - the technologies are converging, but they haven't yet merged completely. In similar vein, the verb "riding" can often be taken to mean "travelling" or "overlanding" in some of the forums, without losing the overall theme. Just saying. Some motorcycle purists will probably object but you have moved along this particular road already. |
Thanks
Thank you to Grant and all others concerned for listening and formulating a much improved container for overlanders to exchange ideas and information specific to cars, vans and trucks etc.
Apart from anything, the new format immediately has users adopting the mindset of traveller rather than simply exponents of a particular marque of vehicle. Good work, looking forward to seeing how things pan out. |
Thanks, good to hear you like the changes - generally ;)
Palm devices - good spot! now gone... Bike / Riding terms - tweaked where possible, some left because e.g. Riding clothing is a very specific thing - can't sub "travel" there! Land * stuff - general consensus seemed to be keep it simple, and under and over 3500, so that's the way we went. We also looked at the number of posts - and there weren't enough per forum to be considered "very active" but together we think it's good. Thanks for all the input, it really helped, and made it all possible! And of course we're always listening! :) |
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I guess folks will need to use the search function more frequently, which may be an expectation too far. :innocent: |
To stick or not to stick
With the recent rebranding of the 4 wheels section of the HUBB there has been a somewhat interesting side effect.
At present, whatever topics existed as sticky threads in the earlier layout have now gone. There are very, very few sticky threads across the whole of the "4 wheels" at present. I guess we all have to earn our spurs again, and make some posts in threads that are worthy of being "stuck". |
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