Ex-Mil Trucks & 'Wild Camping' in suburbia?
 

Hi,

New to the site (I think this is my 5th post - got carried away in the bike section) and I need some honest advice.

Currently I run a SWB Renault Trafic Panel van with a low roof. My hobby is racing dirt bikes, my job is IT 'consultant' (we can argue 'til the cows come home over the term consultant / money grabber / mercenary if you wish). Basically I work away 50+ weeks of the year and this is seriously messing with my bike racing (and fitness).

The type of racing I do is based in forests which means narrowish tracks and farmers gates, it also means site conditions are not always the best - people have had to be winched ON to the sites in the past.

I've stayed on my current assignment in a hotel for 14 months, but my van isn't big enough for me to prep the bike in betwen races hence the impact. I've looked at race transporters, but although they're a hotel on wheels and have a garage, they're no use in the Langdale forest (4x2 size of a planet anyone)

I was thinking about a LWB 4x4 sprinter (looks like Ford have dropped the 4x4 option) but they're big money new & like hens teeth second hand, followed by huge depreciation (not keen on that bit).

Looked at Overland campers (the posh ones) and then realised that they cost REALLY big money (my wife still quite likes to live in our hose), which go me onto the ex-mil trucks.

They have a lot going for them in terms of cost Vs what you get, and I could honestly say that I COULD make use of cab controlled tyre deflation. But am I just looking at a big head ache?. I was looking at the ex-radio boxes which I could mod to form a temporary bed for the night (save on hotel bills) and has the height to work on a bike at night (nothing else to do!).

I was thinking about a Gaz66 or a Tatra 815 6x6 (not sure of the cost), but then the fuel consumption is horrendous (I know you can allegedly get contaminated fuel for free, but that may be an urban myth), not sure of the insurance, but more importantly is it legal to pitch up at the road side and camp?.

I've scouted the area and I'm OK on the area being away from dwellings, it is already used by the big horse boxes overnight during races and it doesn't have a weight limit - I just don't want to inadvertantly get someones back up.

Only problem with the 6x6 is that I'm into LGV territory, and I can't work out if that's a path I really want to go down right now.

So opinions please, what is the downside of going ex-mil, offseting the fuel against the hotel bills and being self contained. Do the ex-mil trucks come with any toys, Genny, air compressor and winch would be very handy (and they cost a fortune to fit to a civi van).

I'm also after negative comments, showed the missus a picture of a KTM Dakar Kat1 6x6 Support Truck - might as well prep her with something that has KTM on it.... went down faster than the Titanic I'm afraid, but hey - she's got her car... I have my Van / Truck / Rocket Ship - Never the twain shall mix.

Only need three seats Driver + Kid1 + Kid2, Missus won't ever come camping, but as I'm away 5 days a week, me going camping with the kids and the wife having free weekends is pretty much as close to being a god as I'll ever get.

Regards,

RTS.

Just re-read the post, apologies for the typo's (pet hate)... we don't live in hose.... honestly.

RTS

Well 6x6 is really getting there.

There was a Ford motorhome 4x4 on fleabay about a month ago.
It looked quite good.
I think the cost was about £5000, but may be way out.

FORD TRANSIT COUNTY 2.5 TURBO DIESEL 4X4 CAMPER VAN on eBay, also, Campervans Motorhomes, Campers, Caravans Motorhomes, Cars, Parts Vehicles (end time 03-Sep-08 18:01:40 BST)

6x6, not really,

Thanks for the reply.

I've downloaded the Ford Transit brochure and it transpires that they still do an AWD option in combination with a factory fit crew cab in a LWB configuration.

The AWD is a bit soft as in threre is no driver input required, it decides what power to send where, so I'm assuming that it might not have diff locks as such.

I'm still thinking about the military route as the LWB vans are in the £25k to £30k + VAT territory and that can buy a shed load of fuel. I'd also like something that I may stand half a chance of fixing if it goes bang (£2.5k for a Trafic gearbox anyone?).

Any thoughts on roughing it (so to speak) in suburbia?

RTS

Considered?
 

What about an Iveco - one of the Prototype Ambulances that had been converted to a camper was on ebay a couple of months ago!

Other options, Mil spec trucks? - Unimog, Pinzgauer, Iveco, Renault, Merc, MAN, Daf, Leyland, etc, etc.......

MAN might be an option at reasonable money -look up Chris Scotts reports on his Sahara trips.

Hi Chris, thanks for the reply.

I've tentativly looked @ a VAB Pinzgauer, but the gent hasn't supplied me with any further info such as photo's. I don't think the load area is flat which may be an issue with the dirt bike and lift.

I've also queried a Tatra on the RussianTrucks.co.uk web site, but again - no feedback.

Not sure what I'm missing, but last time I purchased a van / car I wasn't the one ringing up asking someone to sell it me - I'd have thought they'd have been contacting me.

Having said that, I had a similar issue with a VW dealer - looking at purchasing a Crafter and a Maxi Caddy, pretty much the guy thought he was doing me a favour by talking to me - left it at, when you need to sell a van / car to hit a target, give me a call & if I've not purchased something else - maybe we can talk.

I'll look at the other makes, Iveco may be worth a dabble as I've seen them reasonably often in 4x4 configuration.

Had some spare time today, configured a 4x4 LWB, high roof, Crew Cab Transit - Limited edition trim on the Ford web site....£37k inc. VAT.... that's a lot of money to lose over three years.

RTS

I have chris scotts old MAN and am building a bike rack on the back for my ktm450.
There is enough space inside for the camper convesion and bike maintenance would be under an awning for me but you could arrange the interior differently.
Cab has 3 seats, drives like a lorry- just had a 'test' run to norfolk and did 50 mph with 12-14 mpg, not the best but cheaper than travel lodges.
Not done any enduros for a while due to an op but let me know which ones you are doing as i may be about if you want to have a look- there are some photos of chris's exploits with the truck at Overlanders Handbook 2008
E-mail me if you want me to send any photos of the set up..
You can get this truck in Germany for about 10k..
Cheers
Stan

For ex.Warsaw Pact mil trucks go to zil131.com which is a friendly forum where they will answer all and any questions on mil trucks for your needs.

As a quickie - the GAZ66 is an unstoppable 4x4 with a 6 litre petrol V8 which will do all you want but not the largest box on the back. Price - £2.5-£5k

Next up is the Zil 131 6x6 with the same engine as the GAZ and is larger and will have a slightly larger box. £2.5-£6.5k. For around £10-£12k you can have a new Zil131 with a fully equiped workshop on the back including lathe, drill, press, welder and comprehensive tool kit etc in fact all you need to repair anything from a tank to a truck, even a KTM :)

Ultimate is the URAL 4320 (diesel) / 375 (petrol) 6x6 for which you will need a LGV or HGV as it's over 7.5 tonnes. £4k-£7k

All the above have winch, CTI (central tyre inflation) are ultra reliable and ultra simple and simply unstoppable.

Consider also the PRAGA V3S a rugged and simple Czech mil truck with clever axles. £1.5k - £3k

All the above can be had from "conservation" unused but maybe were built in the '70's. You will have to fettle them as they will have been standing for 30 years but if you buy one that's been sorted the price will be about the same. There's plenty in this country.

TATRA 813 and in particular the 815 are the best off road trucks bar none. They are heavy mil trucks and available from four to twelve(!) axles and can be had for as little as £3k up to sky's the limit £££££'s.

None of these trucks are really practical for every day use (unless you are an army!) as the fuel consumption is high but if you are doing low milage, going outside Europe or doing a major expedition I wouldn't choose anything else.

I have seen various trucks fully kitted out on ebay.de for ~£7k with less than 4k km's.

The guys at Zil131.com will give you chapter & verse so do check them out.

The more recent GAZ-66s are 66-40s which have a 4cyl 4L turbo diesel and get really fairly good economy for their mass, about 15L/100km. That's really a great truck (forward control, CTIS, diesel), and I'd have one if they were around Anchorage Alaska or anywhere in the US (which they aren't). They fit neatly under 7.5 tonne for Europeans. In the states you only need a commercial driver's licence for gvw>26000 lb (11.8 tonne); unless it's a motor home, in which the sky is the limit. Which is lucky because my U500 completely loaded is 12.8 tonnes.

Charlie

A friend of mine who does 4x4 and 4x2 driver instruction, was just on the launch of the new 4x4 transit (a kind of corporate launch, there were representatives from the AA, RAC, paramedics, national grid etc there) and he said that the off road capability was awesome.

no driver input needed at all (in "pulling levers/pushing buttons") but you do have to drive them slightly differently to get the 4x4 to work fully (i think it's just a case of clutch control and engine revs that makes the difference)

But in all, they were very impressed. Not as hard core as a landrover/cruiser, but for general off road/tracks/grass fields (where the AA/RAC/national grid people venture) it was more suitable, and had a bigger carrying capacity than a LR

AS IF BY MAGIC: Gaz66 Ex Army Russian Truck 4x4 Expedition Camper on eBay, also, Campervans Motorhomes, Campers, Caravans Motorhomes, Cars, Parts Vehicles (end time 29-Sep-08 16:41:42 BST)

TOP TRUCK AT A TOP PRICE BUT THIS IS AS GOOD AS YOU'LL GET

Many thanks for all of the feedback...

The chap wanted £30k for a Tatra 815..., I've seen the eBay item before & it's cheap enough for a punt, I'd spoken to him when it was previously listed, but I think my queries can be more targeted now.

I was slightly put off by some of the obvious bodges / lack of fittings finesse, but I suposed they can be reversed.

RTS

I might be biased but withams still have some refubished bedfords left - you'd need to beat them down on the price though.
Welcome to MOD Sales Online - Military Vehicles for Sale - #16929 - BEDFORD MJ SERIES (REFURBISHED)

go mog!
 

L. Jackson - for Ex. MOD and NATO Disposals

when i went to wander round their site a few months ago there was about 60 ex nato u1300l unimogs, at i think £14500+vat. flat bed with three seater cabs. top speed only about 50, but faster then heavier russian stuff?? these are a 7.5ton chassis, so may be ok on a car license depending when you passed your test. (also lots of other cool stuff to dribble over! how can i get a tank transporter on the drive?!?)

pinzgauers have a rear similar to a landy with a "channel" down the middle of the back between the wheelarches giving more headroom. any big ex-military ambulance/radio cab type thing will be a perhaps overbuilt box on the rear, i'm assuming so it doesnt flatten if rolled, but mostly dont have clear standing room clearance. i'm 5'6, and with my head at an angle in the skylight of a mog ambulance i can straighten my back just.

BC Explore Unimog adventure and Off Road Travels

these folks bought a mog ambulance, converted to a camper, then after a few years lifted the roof so they could stand up!

i'm no bike mechanic, but you can stand upright in a sprinter, i wouldnt think if your main concern is fixing your bike inside you dont want to be wearing a hard hat or bashing your head.

my own mog

It's Huge!

built by the previous owners, has a double bed above the cab, giving lots of free floor space for kitchen, shower/toilet, dining area or bike bits etc, with a bit much headroom forced by the bed above cab position, also resulting in a nearly 13 feet (3.950m) high vehicle, with the floor 4'5" (1.350m) up. getting me in is ok, but a bike too? big ramp required!

good luck either way!!

jason

Jacksons are really expensive as are Unimog's.

Hey Jason, I spotted that cute unimog in Dent last week ( pity you picked the dearest campsite in the yorkshire dales). was going to come over for a chat but was in a hurry - then you were gone, let me know if you get back up this way
Good luck with you travels
Chris

thankyou!

we'd only collected her the day before, and stopped at the first place we came across, too late for the office. we found out the next morning it was a bit pricey!

Many thanks for the replies..

I was reading Jason's web-site last night (didn't show the wife - otherwise she'd get the scale of how big a Mog was).

I've settled on nothing heavier than 7.5T, there are too many bridge, parking and license issues for it to be worth the hassle.

I've seen a couple of 1300L Ambulances & I'm trying to determine if these come with any usable heating / electrics / generators as standard.

3 meter bed by 2m high would be ample, I like the idea of the over the cab bed.

There appear to be a number of web sites on the UK that all point to the same UK suppliers - I don't understand the logic behind that bit.

RTS

Remember that you need to be able to tilt the cab forward for maintenance.

Charlie

'wild camping' suburbia
 

No-one seems to have answered your original question of suburbia 'camping'. We have a live-in truck now and as long as you don't park in the same area for nights on end then it seems to be ok. Obviously check out your chosen spot- if you're in view of a big sign saying NO OVERNIGHT PARKING, then you may only get away with a couple of nights or less. Of course it's not unknown for these signs to go missing now and again!
Quiet laybys can be interesting, we recently slept in one 15 miles north of Hull- it turned out to be a dogging hot spot. Everytime we stuck our head out the window to say we didn't have a dog, they kept coming back!
No-one can say travelling is boring!:stupid:

Thanks for the replies....

I'd not twigged the fact that the Mog cab rolls forward... so that's that sorted then.

Thanks for the info about overnight camping. The area (at the moment) I had in mind is around York racecourse Monster.

I've located a couple of quite carparks and main drag to the race course is used by horse haulers during race weeks anyway and more importantly it's about 300m from the nearest house (but visible).

Normally I either hotel it or B&B it (two years and counting now), but I'd like my own space that I don't have to pack away each week now... and be able to tinker with the bike.

RTS.

Are you still looking for a vehicle? I may be able to help Please pm with a telephone number.
Chris

A friend of mine was recently demonstrating the 4x4 transit to a group of transport managers from large utility companies (Off the top of my head, i know that the AA, waterboard and scottish & southern electricity were there) and he said how excellent off road it was.

like you say, no driver input is needed, but I think Ford have licked it and made it totally idiot proof (althought this is kind of leaning towards utility drivers who might use & abuse the truck, whereas a private individual might have more mechanical sympathy)

But he showed me the video clips of where he drove, on road tyres, and it was truly awesome.

probably friggin expensive too though :thumbdown:

Depends on the Mog.
 

Worry not about the tipping cab. Charlie's is a super modern and really very nice U500.
The ones in the available from Jacksons (and the ones my budget can reach) are not tipper cabs. The U1000 and 1300 are noisy, slow, thirsty and utterly fantastic at crawling over obstacles (which you'll be doing about 0.05% of the time you're overlanding). and so high off the ground you end up with a target for international terrorism once you've put the camper body on the back.
If that's what you like why not browse through VEBEG - Das Verwertungsunternehmen des Bundes all the german ex mil stuff comes through there, and you see Mogs & MAN KATs go for considerably less than 10000 EUROS, not pounds. There are dozens of Merc 1017s available at the moment; or even cheaper and just as reliable is the Iveco 110-17 with the indestructible deutz engine (separate cylinder heads so even if one blows you just drive on without losing coolant or anything, until you can stop and bolt on a replacement). It's all done by sealed tender, but there's a list of successful bids available to give you an idea of how much to bid.
Ideally however you need time to go and look at the trucks before bidding.
I was sold on the ex mil route for price reasons, but now and then a civvy gem pops up: 1996 N Reg VOLVO FL6 4WD MANLIFT WITH KING 22M TELESCOPIC SKY LIFT. that's going to be more civilised to live with...
So nothing's written in stone.
Whatever I end up with (and that's soon I hope) I've got lots of modifications to do to get it to my spec, not least of which is extending the cab to accomodate the kids, I concluded (with the help of a friend Q ;-) that the official double cabs trucks take up way too much camper length and really restrict your choice of truck.

Happy hunting
Luke

Hmmm,

Having stuffed my knee up racing, the whole racing scene and having to get the bike ready on the road is looking a bit suspect @ the mo' (i.e. family is stating....sell up you ol' gimp).

Kids are still up for camping and climbing so a camper is still on the books.

Does anyone know anything about Star 266's???., they look similar to Zil131, but a bit cleaner on the look.

I could just buy a "normal" camper.... not sure I could live with the looks though :blushing:

Cheers!

RTS

This outfit in Poland is the specialist for the Star 266. They re-sell ex.mil trucks many of which have never been really used and can fettle them to make them reliable.

If you want a camper try for the incredible expanding 266! the rear expands each side to give you 30 square metres of tented space, used as a field hospital or command space etc so they can sell you the heaters etc (get's cold on the eastern front!).

Only problem is the NEVER respond to e-mails so you'll have to have a Polish speaker call them on your behalf. The man to speak to is Janusz Dunder - call him on his mobile. The guys on Zil131.com may be able to help you out here is you ask nicely.

P.W. Motodemont- STAR - RÓ¯NE MODELE

P.W. Motodemont- Star 266, Sprzêt wojskowy, T-55, BMP-1, BRDM, MTLB, P³ug wirnikowy-dmuchawa do ¦niegu

The star is of course a diesel, Zil is petrol but the Gaz 66 has the same engine, is very capable and looks like Start 266. Prices for Gaz & Zil are very low - around £1.5k should get you on six (or four x four) wheels :)

Sounds interesting - does anyone have any pictures of the expanding 266 with the canopies up?

Seems like a lot of truck for the money, but what to do about spares when you are overlanding with a rare truck like that?

The Incredible Expanding Star
 

Sure - there ya go:-

For spares - buy two trucks and keep one for spares! The parts for these are stupidly cheap you can stock up on even complete axles for £30 but the Polish guys are best to advise. You have to get real though - these are ex mil trucks not brand new Mercedes Benz with world wide support who will fly you out a water pump direct to you in the Gobi Desert handed to you by a man in a white coat!
http://www.motodemont.com.pl/upload/506.jpg

[IMG]file:///C:/WINDOWS/TEMP/moz-screenshot.jpg[/IMG]

http://www.motodemont.com.pl/upload/507.jpg

http://www.motodemont.com.pl/upload/508.jpg

http://www.motodemont.com.pl/upload/610.jpg

http://www.motodemont.com.pl/upload/611.jpg

Personally I'm not too worried about spares (I won't be going to Africa without a divorce)...

The expanding Star is pretty much king of the "Top Trumps" for trailer tents... not sure how much space is in the inside when it's packed away... another truck behind carrying the gear methinks????

I did look at ISO 20' expanding containers, as they have a central core where kit can fit, but you're into HGV land.

Anyway.... the schools hols are here!!!!!. We can't go abroad as I'm the only one with a passport... wife has NVQ work to complete..... I suggest camping with the kids on my own, no resistance... wales in a tent, followed by renting a full on campervan for Scotland later on.... kids are stoked and that would make it 3 to 4 in favour.... flipping it to a 6wd camper shouldn't be too hard :clap:.

RTS

Nice looking trucks!

What's the top speed and fuel consumption like?

hello,

have done the the following:

1. built VW LT 46 truck as an camper, and trying to fit the bike on the back...did not work out, too small and cramped end up costing 15Ke to build....also the TDI engine was disappointment, electrics...in engine managment....


2.did look into military trucks, did the math on the gasoline expenses...it would be lovely to have 4X4 but you really dont need it.

3.took route with mitsubishi fuso 4.6metric ton truck with isolated standard container on the back, now plenty of room to live and all the space that I need.

the engine is bullet proof, and the rear axle lock is mandatory with any truck....gas milage is excelent 20-25Mpg negatives are the expenses with building one (20Ke)

4. if I would do it again...put the bike on back of the good trailer JT-Trailer 750 UUSI UMPIK�RRY 2010 - TELILL� 150x300x150 cm - Kuljetuskalusto | Nettivaraosa

and decent used roomy car (your preference) to pull it...or campervan or RV, easy, cheap and working solution...

according my experience, it will take hundreds of hours to build own vehicle, with lots of money....and selling one is is a disappointment. (you never get your money back)