Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > Technical, Bike forums > Yamaha Tech

Yamaha Tech Originally the Yamaha XT600 Tech Forum, due to demand it now includes all Yamaha's technical / mechanical / repair / preparation questions.
Contact Overland Solutions for all your custom modifications and setup for overland travel.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 5 Nov 2007
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Nairobi Port Alfred London
Posts: 199
WR450 vs XT600 (& single vs twin question) And RIM help

Having sorted out all my woes with my Yamaha XT600 (for now) I am left thinking that somehow I would be better off with a WR 450, in every way other than initial cost and the service interval.

The 450 is more powerful than thr 600 and has a lower weight, right? surely this makes it a better bike for overlanding than my '87 XT600

On boats with outboard motors when you have two 50hp motors you displace (well the equivalent of) 100hp but only get 50 hp of power, but with nearly double the torque.

in essence with my XT600, its a 600cc single, yet my BMW is an 1150 twin, so each cylinder displaces 600(ish)cc. does this mean that the Twin performs witha similar power to the single?

and does it mean that bikes like the Africa twin, are basically 2x 375cc singles that would have a similar performance to a single 375cc bike?

Do you see where I am going with this?

Anyway anyone got a tip on replacing the spokes on my rear tyre:
Just seen that I am missing a spoke and that it appears to have sheared off at the edge of the rim, so need to replace the bit inside the rim too: Are they loose from the inside, or is this a major issue?

Thanks for now, I guess the answer is to take off the wheel, remove the tyre, and look for yourself.

Cheers G
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 5 Nov 2007
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 3,404
Quote:
Originally Posted by photographicsafaris View Post

Do you see where I am going with this?

Cheers G
Truthfully, no.
However, there are a number of threads that discuss the merits of twins and singles.
__________________
Dave
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 6 Nov 2007
Dodger's Avatar
Large Golden Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 1,097
I don't see where you are going either but here are some figures to ponder .

BMW 1150 = 85 hp [at 6750 rpm] and 72 ft lbs torque [at 5200 rpm]
XT 600 = 44 hp [ 6500 rpm ] and 35 ft lbs torque [5500 rpm]
WR450 = 58 hp [at 9000 rpm ] and 36 ft lbs torque [7000 rpm]

1150 vs 600 : twice the engine size and twice the power and twice the torque .As you own both bikes I thought you would have worked this out already .
WR450 makes it's power and torque at higher rpm .

Give me a torquey low revving bike every time .
__________________
Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light. - Spike Milligan
"When you come to a fork in the road ,take it ! When you come to a spoon in the road ,take that also ."
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 6 Nov 2007
Registered Users
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Singapore
Posts: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by photographicsafaris View Post

Do you see where I am going with this?

Cheers G
The bike is getting ready for sale!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 6 Nov 2007
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Nairobi Port Alfred London
Posts: 199
Dodger thanks for the info: It makes sense.

I have noticed that the XT is a leary bike at lower speeds, while the BMW is sedate by comparisson. Yes the power is there, but it doesnt feel like twice the power.

On the WR vs XT I can see it, more torque at lower RPM. Hence better performance and fuel economy where it is need in an overland bike.

As for the single vs twin thing, it was a mechanical thought, comparing twin engines with two outboard motors on a boat, having two engines only improves torque but makes no difference to the top end.

I was dissapointed that my duck had the same top end with 2 60hp as with 1 60hp. when I put on a 90hp, it made a huge difference, but with the two 60's it got up onto the plane with more weight on board.

I was wondering if this held true with motorcycles, ie 2 600's bolted together performing more or less the same as a single 600 but with more torque...


But it isnt!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 6 Nov 2007
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 3,404
The design of propellers must be completely different from bikes!! Just kidding.

I suppose the main difference in your "experiences" is the transmission of the effort of two (or more) cylinders via the one crank, compared with the individual effort of multiple independent engines directed to the same "aim" - in your case to get the boat to move through the water.

Or am I missing your drift again?

Leary XT and sedate BMW - Hmm.
Cheers,
__________________
Dave
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 8 Nov 2007
stuxtttr's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Lutterworth,Midlands, UK
Posts: 470
The WR is a much more focused bike than the XT. Its an Enduro bike, light powerful, water cooled, whilst these are an advantage off road its the long term simplicity of the XT that makes it more suited to extended overland trips. Yes it is heavier and less powerful but its much easier to maintain out on the road and is better suited to bearing the loads of overland travel.

If you can get a back up vehicle to carry youre gear then take the WR and you will have a ball.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 9 Nov 2007
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,514
not entirely on topic but..

Recently I made a trip to Germany to see a diesel bike rally. Three bikes poodling along at about 55-60mph. One 9 hp diesel Enfield, one Enfield Electra and my own 800cc BMW. We were all running at close to teh same RPM. but the diesel bike was getting 160-180mpg, the Electra 80+mpg and my Bmw 57mpg. Why the difference? presumably we were all using about the same power?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10 Nov 2007
Dodger's Avatar
Large Golden Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 1,097
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbmw View Post
Recently I made a trip to Germany to see a diesel bike rally. Three bikes poodling along at about 55-60mph. One 9 hp diesel Enfield, one Enfield Electra and my own 800cc BMW. We were all running at close to teh same RPM. but the diesel bike was getting 160-180mpg, the Electra 80+mpg and my Bmw 57mpg. Why the difference? presumably we were all using about the same power?
Diesel engines are more efficient [more of the "energy" is turned into heat] hence you will always use less fuel .Futhermore diesel engines when lightly loaded will use significantly less fuel than when heavily loaded - petrol engines use about the same whether lightly or heavily loaded .[ for a given rpm] .
You were all using the same power to drag you along [ give or take a bit for aerodynamics and weight ] but the larger engined bikes had more power in reserve .Your beemer has bigger cylinders to fill with fuel and air hence uses more fuel .
__________________
Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light. - Spike Milligan
"When you come to a fork in the road ,take it ! When you come to a spoon in the road ,take that also ."
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12 Nov 2007
Registered Users
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 22
I'm toying with a similar issue. I'm after a kick and or electric start.
The WR450f has both as does the earlier TT600r.
I currently have a BMW R100GS/PD but I just can't see myself doing anything but formed roads on it.
Am I being ridiculous as most roads are formed or do I purchase a bike about HALF the weight, and if so because I want kick as well as electric is the WR450r the best option.
Years ago I had a XR400 and it was a brilliant bike.

Why is the XT easier to maintain than the WR?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12 Nov 2007
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 3,404
Hi Kiwitoby,
There is a good thread in this forum about riding small capacity bikes, mainly around the 250cc mark but 125s get mentioned as well.
Do a search along these lines for some informative discussion of riding smaller bikes.

It seems to me that, yes, most roads, certainly major roads, are "formed" nowadays (and the nature of mankind is such that there will be many more formed roads in the future). So, unless you really want to go off-road, you can get along on tarmac surfaces to just about anywhere - of course, in the end, this depends on where you intend to travel.

On your final question, it has already been mentioned that race-tuned bikes require more attention and they need this more frequently; high state of tuning/compression ratio, revving higher, less oil on board make them maintenance intensive.

Ultimately, there is no perfect, single bike or we would all be riding that one!
__________________
Dave
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12 Nov 2007
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Nairobi Port Alfred London
Posts: 199
Kiwitoby

What about the rim side, are all those spokey things critical or just important? I appear to have lost one, and wanted to know how much of a night mare they are to replace? is it a replace the rim job, or does the base bit pop out the bottom, then thread in another spike, or what?

Sad to say but yesterday was the first time I have ridden off road! No seriously, not since I was 11yo! The XT felt tiny compared to the much larger BMW's. I thought I would ride it to learn more and buy something later.

Fact is it is an awesome bike, small enough to chuck around and gain some confidence offroad with powersliding etc, http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...unmeteryes.gif (something I would not consider on my 1150RT) and big enough to strap some stuff on and head off into the bush. Tonight I am strapping my camera gear going to look for sunset shots in a marsh land "Byway" just because I can

I suggest that you buy a cheap (£600) xt 600/dr600 and then play around with it. you will probably spend about £300 on it and loads of time, but you will sell it for about the same maybe more. That way you wont loose out.

I would not have only one bike, my 1150RT is just too comfortable for motorways, but the XT loves lanes and dirt roads which the rt doesnt turn onto!

On the 400 vs 600 debate, I would go (specifically) for the Yamaha XT600 or Suzuki DR400 (But I would have paid for a Suzuki DR600, cos of a childhood thing!) then sold it and brought one of the XT's.

My needs: A strong bike with a good fuel range, powerful enough to drag camping equipment and cameras there, and in emergency carry my mate out. Must be cheap enough to not really care if I leave it there when it gets swept down a river. Oh and I need two identicle ones. The 84-89 tenere fits the bill.

Look at the website Off-the-road If I had loads of cash, they would recieve a big chunk of it.http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ilies/clap.gif DR400 with a 43litre tankhttp://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/images/smilies/clap.gif
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 13 Nov 2007
Registered Users
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: France
Posts: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by photographicsafaris View Post
in essence with my XT600, its a 600cc single, yet my BMW is an 1150 twin, so each cylinder displaces 600(ish)cc. does this mean that the Twin performs witha similar power to the single?

and does it mean that bikes like the Africa twin, are basically 2x 375cc singles that would have a similar performance to a single 375cc bike?
No, things certainly doesn't work that way with bikes. My FZR400 was an *awful lot* more machine than my old C90, certainly more than the 10cc or so's worth your logic would imply (4x98cc vs 1x89cc, if memory serves).

I've never ridden a WR450, but I suspect it would be a lot more "savage" than an XT; power-to weight ratios work like that, and (multiple) smaller cylinders tend to be more revvy and peaky than a single big cylinder. Off road, more so than on, a "savage" bike can be a massive liability if you don't know how to handle it. Then there's ease of maintenance. The 600 XT lumps are "agricultural", you'll find someone somewhere with the gear to do repairs (and probably quite cheaply) pretty much no matter where you are. The same can't necessarily be said of something more "techno" with liquid cooling and multiple cylinders and high tolerances.

Still, you pays your money, you takes your choice, as my old Gran would say.

Simon
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 13 Nov 2007
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 3,404
Quote:
Originally Posted by photographicsafaris View Post
What about the rim side, are all those spokey things critical or just important? I appear to have lost one, and wanted to know how much of a night mare they are to replace? is it a replace the rim job, or does the base bit pop out the bottom, then thread in another spike, or what?

Try this as a start point for knowing more about spokes; a lot of the info applies to motorbike wheels as well:-

Spoke - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You should be able to get by without one spoke (not desirable though in the longterm).
__________________
Dave
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


 
 
 

NEW! HU 2015 Motorcycle Adventure Travel Calendar is now available! Get your copy now for some terrific travel inspiration!

HUGE, 11.5 x 16.5 inches, beautifully printed in Germany on top quality stock! Photos are the winning images from over 600 entries in the 9th Annual HU Photo Contest!

Horizons Unlimited 2015 Motorcycle Adventure Travel Calendar.

"The calendar is magnificent!"

"I just wanted to say how much I'm loving the new, larger calendar!"

We share the profit with the winning photographers. YOU could be in the HU Calendar too - enter here!

Next HU Eventscalendar

See all events

 

HU DVD Autumn Special!

Take 40% off Road Heroes Part 1 until October 31 only!

Road Heroes features tales of adventure, joy and sheer terror by veteran travellers Peter and Kay Forwood (193 countries two-up on a Harley); Dr. Greg Frazier (5 times RTW); Tiffany Coates (RTW solo female); and Rene Cormier (University of Gravel Roads).

The first in an exciting new series, Road Heroes features tales of adventure, joy and sheer terror by veteran travellers."Inspiring and hilarious!"

"I loved watching this DVD!"

"Lots of amazing stories and even more amazing photographs, it's great fun and very inspirational."

"Wonderful entertainment!"

Check it out at the HU Store! Remember to use Coupon Code 'HEROES' on your order when you checkout.



Scottoiler automatic chain oilers. The most important accessory for your next motorcycle adventure!


Renedian Adventures


Renedian Adventures

What others say about HU...

"I just wanted to say thanks for doing this and sharing so much with the rest of us." Dave, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the DVD series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring! The new look of the website is very impressive, updated and catchy. Thank you so very much!" Jennifer, Canada

"...Great site. Keep up the good work." Murray and Carmen, Australia

"We just finished a 7 month 22,000+ mile scouting trip from Alaska to the bottom of Chile and I can't tell you how many times we referred to your site for help. From how to adjust your valves, to where to stay in the back country of Peru. Horizons Unlimited was a key player in our success. Motorcycle enthusiasts from around the world are in debt to your services." Alaska Riders

contest pic

10th Annual HU Travellers Photo Contest is on now! This is an opportunity for YOU to show us your best photos and win prizes!

NEW! HU 2014 Adventure Travel T-shirts! are now available in several colors! Be the first kid on your block to have them! New lower prices on synths!

HU 2014 T-shirts now in!

Check out the new Gildan Performance cotton-feel t-shirt - 100% poly, feels like soft cotton!


What turns you on to motorcycle travel?


Global Rescue, WORLDwide evacuation services for EVERYONE

Global Rescue is the premier provider of medical, security and evacuation services worldwide and is the only company that will come to you, wherever you are, and evacuate you to your home hospital of choice. Additionally, Global Rescue places no restrictions on country of citizenship - all nationalities are eligible to sign-up!


New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80 G/S motorcycle.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events (22 this year!); we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, the HUBB or to receive the e-zine. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.


Books & DVDs

amazon

All the best travel books and videos listed and often reviewed on HU's famous Books page. Check it out and get great travel books from all over the world.


Motorcycle Express for shipping and insurance!

Motorcycle Express

MC Air Shipping, (uncrated) USA / Canada / Europe and other areas. Be sure to say "Horizons Unlimited" to get your $25 discount on Shipping!
Insurance - see: For foreigners traveling in US and Canada and for Americans and Canadians traveling in other countries, then mail it to MC Express and get your HU $15 discount!




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 16:23.