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  #1  
Old 16 Dec 2006
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Angry TT600R wont start

Hi fellow riders

my TT600R wont start and it is doing my head in. I am preparing this bike to be licensed and haven't started it in about 3 months. Anyhow 3 months ago it started first time. Now I don't even get a spark at the spark plug !

Before starting
1. sidestand is up so sidestand switch does not affect
2. ignition key switch is on
3. kill switch on handlebar is on.
bike has fuel, clean airfilter and all electrical connectors are clean and tight.

I can't understand why it is not getting a spark to the spark plug when i kick it over.

The only thing i can think of that might be improperly installed is the black earth lead that is bolted to the frame under the ignition coil ?

the bike is a 2001 model TT600R belgarda.

Does anyone know a simple test to determine if i am getting power to the ignition coil when i kickstart it. i have a multimeter to perform any tests.

Where is the black earth lead bolted to for the ignition coil mean to be ?. I have between the ignition coil unit and the frame - the forward most bolt hole that fastens the ignition coil to the frame?

thankyou in advance to anyone who may be able to help me get this bike to start

Cheers
Doug
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  #2  
Old 16 Dec 2006
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Talking Muscles

You can recognise TT600 owners by the well-developed muscles in their right leg: they are a b*tch to start.

Some tips:
- Get fresh clean petrol into the carb. The stuff that is in there after 3 months has lost all it's easily evaporating components. Close tap, drain float bowl. Open fuel tap
- The ignition coil is earthed to the frame, that's what the black wire is for. Undo the bolt and clean the contact surfaces
- When starting: lights off, do not even engage the brake as this also activites a light
- Do not touch throttle when starting
- You sure all switches /ignition etc are in the correct position? Problem is, the bike does not give feedback as it has no power when not running
- Checking for sparks is difficult on this bike; you probably only see them in the dark when kicking it over at an engine speed close to idle
- Check ignition current to coil: meter between orange cable to coil and earth. Kick: there should be some readout. While you're at it, check continuity of the coil itself
- Setting of idle mixture: screw in all the way, turn out 2 - 2.5 turns. With warm engine, adjust as required
- Correct kickstarting technique, see other posts and opnions ....
- Do not get angry, you save money on the gym!

Auke
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  #3  
Old 16 Dec 2006
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Just for shits and giggles try bypassing the sidestand switch.. the contacts there are notorius for giving grief
best of luck
Lar
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  #4  
Old 16 Dec 2006
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Thanks for your advice. i will try first thing in the morning.

how do you check continuity of the ignition coil ?

from my understanding the ignition coil is similar to a transformer, the primary windings induce a small current(much higher voltage) in the secondary windings when the current in the primary windings decays (magnetic induction or something like that?). The primary and secondary windings are electrically isolated from each other no ? so to check continuity of the ignition coil you can only check continuity of the primary ignition coil and the secondary ignition coil separately ?

I am thinking that the black earth lead is the earth on the secondary windings ?

it is the negative (earth) lead that completes the circuit on the secondary windings which ends up with the spark jumping to earth?

the other thing that had me confused was i tried to test continuity between the spark plug cap and did not get any continuity, I unwound the spark plug cap from the high voltage lead from the ignition coil and could not get continuity. Could this mean that perhaps the spark plug cap is buggered ?

Thanks again in advance for replying so i can hopefully have a more succesful day tomorrow

Kind Regards
Doug
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  #5  
Old 16 Dec 2006
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Hi I also have a TTR600,
I could not get a spark after removing plug and earthing on cylinder. I checked wiring and earths etc and still no spark. In anger I kicked it over very hard and I had a spark.
So when you remove plug and kick engine over kick as hard as you can. The flywheel has to spin very fast to generate enough power to get a spark.

If you have the lights on you wont get enough power to generate a spark while kicking over, even if lights are switched off and you have a break in a wire or some wires are running close to an earth this can be a problem at low revs or while kicking over.
good luck.

Not sure if the TTR has a cut out on the clutch and side stand but try changing through gears to make sure bike is not in false netural.

Last edited by bolla; 17 Dec 2006 at 18:33.
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  #6  
Old 16 Dec 2006
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Hi, start from the front and work your way back. Use a plug that you know to be good, from a friends bike or car maybe, if that sparks when yours doesn`t then it`s the plug. Next do a continuity test on the cap and lead, have someone kicking over while you check (preferably in the dark) for arc from the cap and lead. If that gives a good spark, try unscrewing the lead from the coil. Run your test from the coil to earth via your meter so that you can see the output of the coil. Keep working back through links and components.
If you suspect your earthing point, unfasten the earth from the frame and remove any dirt or paint so that the earth runs to clean metal (worth doing this anyway, on all your earths) and dab a smear of vaseline over the connection after you bolt it back together.
Fuel. Old petrol good for one thing only, cleaning oily things! Try bottle feeding your carb with fresh stuff.
Good luck with it.
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  #7  
Old 16 Dec 2006
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Transformers

Yes, the coil is like a transfomer. Primary and secondary windings share earth however.
To check primary, meter between orange wire and earth (don not remember, wire or the sheaf of metal plates. Should be between 1,04 - 1,495 Ohm at 20 degrees C according to the book.
Secundary, meter between earth and spark plug cable: 14,88 - 22,32 x 1000 Ohm.
The cap should have abt. 10 x 1000 Ohm at 20 dC.

Make sure you use a good digital multimeter, with a resh abtetry, otherwise the readings will drive you nuts.

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  #8  
Old 18 Dec 2006
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Talking Relief at last

After checking every switch and resistance reading (which btw were correct) and at my wits end I decided to kick it over with the front brake kill switch off as opposed to on, I got a recoil and then she started second kick. Turns out the bloke I bought it off somehow managed to swap the switch around the other way on the front brake.

I was suprised also at the very high resistance of the spark plug cap - like 10000ohms or something higher! can someone please explain why this the resistance of the spark plug cap is so high ? I thought it was just a typical conductor and thus would of thought the resistance would be very low. Thanks to all those who responded

Cheers
Doug
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  #9  
Old 18 Dec 2006
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Well ...

The high resistance of the spark plug cap has, as far as I know, two reasons:
- suppress radio interference, by keeping current low
- create higher voltage = better spark, higher resistance requires higher voltage for the same current. Or, higher voltage at lower current.

But I'm sure there's somebody who knows better?

Auke
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  #10  
Old 21 Apr 2007
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Just read this thread

Hi again,
I 've just read this thread and it is not the answer to my starting problem ( my bike has been running in the past with the kill switch in the usual position).
As a separate point, my kill switch seems to have a "press" switch above the red bit that goes to on or off - does anyone know what this "press bit" does (if anything)?. It moves in and out under thumb pressure, like a switch.
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Old 21 Apr 2007
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The press button is the electric start button, does nothing on the TTR but saves leg ache on the TTRE! (I have both).
Try starting the bike with the kill switch in both positions, do the previously mentioned thing with the fuel, spray easy start in the airbox and use no choke. Make sure that the lights, indicators etc are off, dont squeeze the brake lever, don't touch the throttle. Pull the clutch in and get the kick starter to the point of resistance and do a nice smooth powerful swing. If it even coughs there is hope!
I have probably kicked mine over a million times, so I understand your frustration, don't get angry as she will know and refuse to start!
I once spent an hour trying to start mine at altitude in Canada, not fun.
Do double check that kill switch though, I once spent fifteen minutes kicking it with it in the off position, the green neutral light will still illuminate as it only cuts ignition. Good luck.
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  #12  
Old 21 Apr 2007
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Thanks Leigh,
It's obvious when I think about it!

Thanks also for the continuing advice (you have been on my own thread recently):-

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...starting-26306

The kill switch is working OK as it happens but I definitely have no spark.
Will invest in a multi-meter next me thinks!!

Cheers,

Dave

ps Know what you mean about kicking a million times!!
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  #13  
Old 21 Apr 2007
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Regarding the plug cap, the internal resistor is there just to limit RFI (radio frequency interference) so you don't zap people's radios and TV's when you go past their house. A typical resistance is about 5000 ohms. A simple continuity tester would indicate no connection - in other words an apparent break, which is of course is not true. You need a multimeter that can measure resitance to check the ignition properly

I've had a plug cap fail due to the internal resitor cracking up, but it's pretty rare.

If you are running the original cap I'd highly recommend swapping to an NGK cap if for no other reason it has a really good rubber seal that sits against the porcelain part of the spark plug and lessens the chance of water shorting out the spark after running through water

As a final thought, make sure the insides of the cap and outside of the plug are clean and dry as in extreme cases the spark can track from the contact inside the cap to the metal part of the plug and so prevent the spark from happening within the engine.

With a multimeter check the resitance of the whole of the high voltage side of the ignition ie, from the contact within the cap to the earth. you should get the value Auke posted for the coil plus whatever the value is for the cap resistor. Anything significantly different indicates a poor connection.

After all that, as the other guys say, you always need hell of a big kick. Old XT riders can only walk in circles due to the overdevelopment of one leg
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  #14  
Old 21 Apr 2007
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Success!

Gents (that's one and all of you who have given advice),


It's running again!

It now starts from both cold and hot, all in accordance with the usual starting procedures.


The full tale is on my own thread for this problem, as per the link in my last post on this thread, so that all those others who have given advice can be thanked as well.

Cheers,

Dave
ps Will probably get a multi-m anyway and find out more about the state of the coil etc, as per this thread.
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