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  #1  
Old 27 Mar 2007
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TT600R poor/difficult/impossible starting

Hello to one and all,
I am a neebie who has come on here after reading all of the good advice about starting a TT600R, especially with regard to kickstarting a 2001 model!

This has got very difficult recently and I have been following/reading all of the previous information while breaking my ankle in the past few days. I am concentrating on the fuel as the likely problem (so ignoring, at present anyway, all the equally good advice in previous threads concerning the electrics) because I have had the tank off recently and, like a fool, it was well shaken up when it was replaced: I can't be sure that this is the cause but it seems like a "good" coincidence.

So, up to now I have managed to get it going by banging away at the float bowl with the handle of a hammer while releasing the drain screw at the bottom and allowing fuel to run all over the oil tank - having got it under way and up to temperature with lots of use of the kickstart, I then adjusted the kick start decompression cable which certainly was too slack and this is now adjusted to about 1mm of clearance (when hot).

So far this has made it marginally more likely to start but only without any use of the manual choke and only after a fair bit of kicking over (perhaps 6 -10 uses of the kickstart). It used to need the choke fully out when cold and now it doesn't basically, and a "wiff" of throttle helps on occasions when it sounds like it wants to fire; everyone here says this should never be done, but "needs must".

Can I ask you all for your best advice on what needs to be fixed next and does the lack of choke mean that the bike is running rich?


Dave
ps I have a 2004 manual on cd but that does not say anything about kick starting, of course, nor anything about manual choke operation.
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  #2  
Old 28 Mar 2007
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Hmmm

Almost sure it is the setting of the idle mixture screw. In front of float bowl, inside a cast-on little pipe, your little screwdriver should point upwards. Do not know the standard setting, something like 2.5 - 3 turns out. Then, adjust as necessary, see earlier posts.

Another thing to think of, what happened to it that suddenly it became so hard to start, this might be the key to the problem.

Auke
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  #3  
Old 28 Mar 2007
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Hi Auke,
Thanks for your thoughts on this; as I mentioned, I "hope" this is caused by shaking the fuel tank around and getting a bit of muck in the wrong place - Been trying again today and it starts up much as I described yesterday, however today it needed about 1/4 of the choke setting to get going, after a lot of kicking (around 30 times)!
That pilot jet screw is not exactly easy to get at! I guess I need a right angle screwdriver unless you have a better idea; there are loads of pipes in the way for a normal screwdriver handle.

The bad news is that I took another look at the kickstart decompression cable (that I adjusted recently) and the bottom end came away in my hand (I have not had this bike very long, so everything on it is new to me). It does not appear to be threaded on that end so I guess it has snapped off at the kickstart connection (and it looks like a case of removing the cover plate that lies behind the general area of the footpeg to replace it - does anyone know if this is that simple?

Thanks again,
Dave
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  #4  
Old 28 Mar 2007
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Easy

To change the decompression cable. Remove tank, footpeg, little cover. Shows itself.
Adjustment of mixture screw: I always use a flat screwdriver bit, like the ones they use in batterypowered screwdrivers. I explain the blisters after the adjusting to my closests by saying I poured boiling teawater over my hand.

Gd lk!
Auke
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  #5  
Old 28 Mar 2007
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Thanks again for the info.

In my 2004 manual it does give the pilot screw setting as 2.75 turns out +/- 0.5, or 3 1/2 turns out, depending on which page you read!

I've been behind that little cover to find just a clevis pin on the end of the spring loaded lever and the bike is now just about impossible to kick over, so I am guessing that it snapped today.

So, I am now looking for a new decompression cable as well as a new speedo cable (I haven't mentioned that before, but it snapped on my first ride!)
Does anyone know a reliable supplier of such cables for the TT600R (online or mail order) because no one seems to carry them in stock is my experience with the speedo cable hunting to date.
Cheers

Dave
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  #6  
Old 28 Mar 2007
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I used MOTOWARD, I looked at my microfiche and found it was the only blurred number on the bloody thing! I phoned them and he knew straight away which cable and popped one in the post (de-comp cable). Adjust cold to 1mm free movement as described in clymer XT manual.
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  #7  
Old 28 Mar 2007
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Decompression should be set when the bike is stone cold.. and to the book specification..

I would remove and clean the carb, put it back to factory settings and check there is a good CONSTANT spark.

Ed
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  #8  
Old 28 Mar 2007
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Thanks for the updates guys!
I was afraid there would be more work to do! Not looking forward to pulling the carb to bits because it is many years since I did that and my 2004 cd says that this beast has two of them with mutiple jets in the primary one.
So, are there any hot tips on what to watch for when stripping the carb(s), bearing in mind that my cd refers to the 2004 model that I guess has an automatic choke and whatever else came along since 2001?
I guess I may as well get on with this while I am getting the new cables ordered - thanks for the suggested supplier, Leigh.

For the spark, is there any particular reason to say this must be "CONSTANT"? - being a 4 stroke, it should fire once every two rotations of the crank?

Thanks once more,

Dave
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Old 28 Mar 2007
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Your original post says it has just recently gotten hard to start as opposed to not so hard to start earlier.
This means something has changed
Possible culprits could be a very dirty airfilter (makes the mixture very rich)
or valves getting tight ( check them especially if the bike has high mileage)
old sparkplug
The fuel filter (screen) inside the tank AND the itty bitty screen inside the carb bowl

If you have fuel and a good spark your TT should fire regardless of a broken decomp cable.

Lotsa luck
Lar
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Old 28 Mar 2007
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Thanks Lar, More work, so be it!! Where is that filter that is in the bowl - is it obvious when the bowl is opened?

Cheers,


Dave
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  #11  
Old 28 Mar 2007
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Thumbs up

Hi Dave

This fuel screen sits above the float needle/valve body. (about 6mm. dia.)

Best wishes Alec.
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Last edited by Livotlout; 28 Mar 2007 at 22:07. Reason: added description of valve for clarity
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  #12  
Old 28 Mar 2007
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the screen in the carb bowl is part of the needle valve # 42 in this pic


pick it out with a dental pick and toss it, install a good quality inline fuel filter from an automotive supply place instead

98% of all carb problems are schmutz related


i read it on the internet so it must be true
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  #13  
Old 28 Mar 2007
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Hi
My TTR can also be hard to start from cold at times, when hot no problem.
If you have to give the bike a bit of throttle to start I would try turning the throttle stop on the carb. The bike will tick over a bit faster but I find it better to start like this and not touch the throttle.
Also make sure lights are off including indictors and brake lights (dont hold front brake on)
Does your bike have a switch on the side stand and also a netural light?
I have by passed the switch on the stand and my netural light is not connected.

I had real trouble trying to start my bike one day and after 1 hour kicking started to push the bike home I tried bump starting wheel just locks up. I kicked it over after trying to bump and had a mass kick back and tore the ligaments in my ankle but the bike started.
I think the bike might have been in false netural so would not start but when I tried bump starting I found proper netural. Bike kicked back cause it was flooded.
I even managed to start it with my left foot balancing on crutches when I left the hosptial
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Old 29 Mar 2007
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Stop!

Carbs always never go wrong, so it's certainly not the first thing to rip apart when the bike refuses to start. If sufficient fuel comes through (which you checked by repairing the sticking float needle) there's certainly enough just to start and idle. So, problem is not there.
Start at the beginning:
- Correct adjustment of idle mixture. On my 2002 TTR, I set it at abt 3,5 turns out. Starst well now
- Have the decompression mechanism in good order: good cable + reasonably well adjusted (to do this with engine stopped, turn crankshaft to TDC at end of compression stroke, adjust cable to 0,5 mm play)
- Make sure that while kicking there is no consumer of electricity switched on: headlight, taillight, whatever. Also, do not apply brake (brakelight!). I do not have a good explanation for this, but on all TTR's I know this helps.

If this does not work, we'll decide to scrap it or go for more intrusive surgery.
Auke
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  #15  
Old 29 Mar 2007
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Hi to all and thanks for the information.

I've ordered the new decompression cable from Moto-Ward and that will be about a week to arrive, taking into account the weekend and ordering it because it is not in stock; until that is fitted I don't intend to be kicking over the bike because I may as well let my ankle recover!! I certainly don't want to end up with ligament treatment in hospital
By the way, very reasonable delivery charges which is refreshing nowadays, especially compared with those who have big glossy catalogues!

Alec, I have that diagram on my cd and I see/understand what you are indicating - I guess the tiny thing that looks like a washer in the needle valve set is in fact the filter - I also read somewhere else in this forum that this filter should be ditched and replaced with an inline version - has anyone actually done this and, if so, what was the effect?

Auke, I have checked the pilot screw and it was exactly 3 turns from fully in, so I have returned it to that position using a screwdriver bit from an electric drill - as you say not the easiest tool to handle and it is not easy to be sure about the extent of turning the screwdriver bit.

Recapping, I still think there is a potential problem with fuelling based on my disturbance of the fuel tank recently - a hunch basically. I cannot be sure that the kickstart decomp cable has just broken - it could have been like that for a while and, up to now, I have assumed that the electrics are in good order (? )

Also, I don't know anything about the history of the bike, having just got it. It is 6 years old and there is some evidence, to say the least, that it has been off-road - this based on the amount of muck in "the difficult to get at places". So, I will take a look at the obvious electrics like the spark plug gap while the cable is on the way to me in the next week. When the tank was last off, I glanced at the bits and pieces of electrical stuff under there and they all looked very clean and in good order, visually; no cables hanging loose or other nasties.
How do you bypass the sidestand switch? - is that just a case of running a bit of wire across the switch or removing the switch all together? I am sure that the bike is in neutral because it moves about quite easily as I kick it over, but I do kick it over with the sidestand down (I have developed a technique of leaning on the saddle to get greater leverage on the kickstart lever with the bike leaned over and onto the sidestand) so you have me thinking about that now!! Yes, the neutral light is working and it "shows" when the kickstart is operated, which has been re-assuring that something is working correctly. Incidentally, the killswitch is wired correctly and it works OK i.e. the engine dies when it is switched to off.
I used to hold the brake on to steady the bike a bit more but I have got out of this habit since reading earlier bits of this forum, so there are no lights on, other than the neutral light - surely that does not consume a lot of current?

That's about the state of the nation today,
Cheers for all the advice,

Dave

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