Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > Technical, Bike forums > Yamaha Tech
Yamaha Tech Originally the Yamaha XT600 Tech Forum, due to demand it now includes all Yamaha's technical / mechanical / repair / preparation questions.
Photo by Daniel Rintz, Himba children, Namibia

The only impossible journey
is the one
you never begin

Photo by Daniel Rintz,
Himba children, Namibia



Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 24 Jan 2003
Registered Users
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 40
The infamous 5th gear

The 5th gear strikes again...

My bike, a 3DS '89 (the swiss 3AJ)with only 41,000 km's and the 5th gear looks like this:



And of course those bits of metal made a good job of the oil pump:



Doesn't look like the previous owner paid any attention to Klaus's 4-5500 rpm in 5th rule...

[This message has been edited by AFrear (edited 23 January 2003).]
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 24 Jan 2003
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 349
how did you get these pictures on here? I need to post some stuff and I cant figure it out!!!

Thanks,

Dave
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 24 Jan 2003
POB/London's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: London / IOW
Posts: 486


You host the image somewhere else.
You place the *full* web address inside "img" and "/img" markers, but you replace the speechmarks with square brackets like this [].

HTH
__________________
=-=-= ON THE EDGE! =-=-=
My XR650L Pan-Med Expedition Site!

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 24 Jan 2003
Registered Users
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: cape town
Posts: 52
fifth gear fear (FGF), will it ever go away? it seems every tenere rider lives in fear of the german dive bombers visiting their gearbox...

still, i suspect that it is more bark than bite, and to paint with too broad a brush is misleading.

a mate of mine and myself recently completed an overlanding trip from london to cape town, and FGF was our main concern to start with. we had heard so much about it before we left, we had even been told that pretty much every tenere will get it over 30,000km, and that it was almost inevitable.

as my bike already had 50,000km on the clock BEFORE the trip, i was a little alarmed about FGF. so when i had to replace my countershaft in rome en route, i was rather pleased to have the opportunity to inspect my gears.

imagine my surprise to see that they were absolutely fine, no different to any of the other gears. i had considered replacing the fifth gear, but the italian yamaha workshop (who know the bike about as well as anyone, the tenere is much more popular on the continent than it is over here in the uk) told me that there was nothing wrong with my fifth gear and there was no point in replacing it. and this is on a 50k engine (the original engine too by the way).

my experience of FGF was further tempered in egypt, where i had the good fortune of befriending and staying with raed badder, who was egypt's top motorcross rider in the 80's and 90's - and mostly on the 1VJ yamaha tenere. raed knows the bike better than anyone i have met - with very little technical support during his racing days he had to in order to compete with the sponsored european riders of the day - and the fifth gear issue did not even feature in his list of the bike's weaknesses (which, for those interested, he listed as a CDI unit prone to breakage, a ppor cooling system, and a resulting engine prone to overheating). so long as the bike was ridden correctly, the gears should wear the same.

and this is really the issue - riding the bike properly. teneres are not meant to be ridden in high gear/low rev ratios; doing so will place unneccessary strain on the gears, and obviously they will encounter metal fatigue. and naturally, it is the higher gears that are going to show it first, as they are the ones which take the most strain due to this mistreatment.

the "correct" range to ride the tenere is supposedly between 3,000 and 5,000 revs, and to be on the safe side i tend to stay in fourth at high revs rather than go to fifth and strain the engine at lower revs. and by doing this i managed to do 17,000km in 3 months on a 14 year old 1VJ which started the trip with 50,000km on the clock - and the main problems at the end of the trip were in the top end of the engine, not the gears.

i do not doubt that the fifth gear doesn't give problems in a tenere, but the more i learn about it, the more it seems to me that the problem lies with the rider, not the bike. if you change the oil regularly (and that is OFTEN in an old bike) and the oil filter, and use all the gears as they should be used (i hardly ever use fifth around london for instance, there just isn't the opportunity to get the speed or revs up high enough to justify it), then you might consider yourself unlucky to have FGF coming to reality.

in reality, most teneres are going to have been previously owned, so if you do not know how the bike had been previously ridden, then you might do well to inspect the gears to start with, and if there is damage replace them - but once that is done, provided you ride the bike sensibly, you should be ok.

or get a 3AJ, where the gears are meant to be strengthened to counter the effects of poor riding. either way, keep the revs up and have fun.

__________________
...ships are safe in harbour, but that\'s not what they were built for...
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 27 Feb 2003
Registered Users
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: uk
Posts: 83
I have a 25 litre oil drum full of chipped XT600 gears - I can no longer lift it off the ground.
In 2001 I threw two of these drums away....

Good condition XT6 gears are the exception not the rule.
If you dont believe me you are welcome to come and have a look.
I also have Mike Stones (london despatcher) 380,000 mile 2KF here if anyone wants a nice low mileage XT.
David Lambeth.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 27 Feb 2003
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 183
Hope you can help?

I would like to understand this (5th Gear) problem a bit better, and hopefully somebody can help me with a few answers?

I have a 3AJ, and yes bought with unknown previous rider(s). The 3AJ has strengthened gears (re: Cabron, Tenere.CH history, etc...) however the original post (Afrear) has this later model (e.g. 3DS is the Swiss 3AJ).

Is the 3AJ just better placed, but all Teneres have the problem?

Are there hardened cogs available, or is "the fix" fitting the same spec cogs and riding carefully?

For all of us in the 'unknown', is there a way of checking, without a strip-down? Since the oil pump is affected, should we be monitoring the oil pressure (but how & what parameters)?

It would be good to have some guidance on this, and apologies if I have missed any previous answers on any of these points.

Thanks, Geoff
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 27 Feb 2003
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 284
Quite an essay Carl,
But what you say makes sense to me.
I had my 3AJ's gears checked when I had the engine rebuilt and they were fine.
I also follow the regime suggested by Fred and like yourself find that I never use 5th gear in London, in fact I rarely use 4th!
Once you get used to riding in higher revs, if one accidentally accelerates in low gear, you can feel that engine straining and I always grit my teeth thinking, "shit, thats 5000km instant wear on the gears"

Geoff
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 27 Feb 2003
Registered Users
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 40
Hi Geoff,

As Klaus and Cabron have said, the problem is more about the rider (or riding style). If you keep your revs up over 3k and under 5.5k then I believe the ‘problem’ wouldn’t exist. Having said that, these are not new bikes and it’s hard to see how previous owners have ridden them.

I knew this when I bought my 3DS and the following top and bottom rebuild was budgeted, I felt that for peace of mind I needed to know what condition the engine was in before I started taking trips RTW.

Starting with the top end, I had two valves that had shot oil seals which resulted in a large build up of carbon from oil leaking into the cylinder. The cylinder needed to be rebored due to marks and groves on the front wall (exhaust side of the cylinder). With the cylinder off it was my intention to inspect the gears (I have heard that this can be done) but I didn’t get to try it as I found out I needed to open the crankcase anyway. The conrod could be rocked from side to side, this meant the bearing between the conrod and crankshaft was done for and the whole crankshaft had to be sent to a workshop for repairs (Kedo.de). With the crankcase open I could finally see the gear up close, you can see it at the start of this post. The oil pump was also shot and the ‘strainer’(?) was full of bits of metal and instant gasket. All in all everything that could go wrong went wrong… (Almost

In other posts I have read that you can hear a screeching sound while riding in fifth gear beside a wall or fence. I tried this and couldn’t hear anything abnormal but maybe it requires a trained ear ? I affaid the only fire proof way to know is to open the engine.

Regards, Aubrey.


[This message has been edited by AFrear (edited 27 February 2003).]
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 27 Feb 2003
Registered Users
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: cape town
Posts: 52
regarding the issue of finding out the state of your gears, without opening up the engine, there is not really a way of knowing. you could check your oil filter for bits of shrapnel or even sieve your oil, but to be 100% sure you would need to open up and look inside.

i don't doubt that plenty of XTs have had problems with the 5th gear - as dave lambeth says, he has drums of broken fifth gears - but i do believe that if you start with a sound set of gears and ride your bike correctly, you shouldn't have major problems with them. obviously, this is not always the case, and when buying second hand one has no idea how the previous owner looked after their bike, so a gear inspection is a mandatory before a long trip - it's just not worth the stress or the anxiety of not knowing and constantly fearing that your gears will go at any point.

fresh gears + (3000 - 5000rpm) = happy tenere.


__________________
...ships are safe in harbour, but that\'s not what they were built for...
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 28 Feb 2003
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 284
"I had my 3AJ's gears checked when I had the engine rebuilt and they were fine."

Sorry Aubrey, maybe I should have clarified my statement better. WHat I meant by the above was that I had my gears checked when I first brought the bike for the same reasons you mentioned: old bike and unknown history.
Fortunately for me the gears were fine and I will try to keep them that way by being a careful rider.

Geoff
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


 
 

Announcements

Thinking about traveling? Not sure about the whole thing? Watch the HU Achievable Dream Video Trailers and then get ALL the information you need to get inspired and learn how to travel anywhere in the world!

Have YOU ever wondered who has ridden around the world? We did too - and now here's the list of Circumnavigators!
Check it out now
, and add your information if we didn't find you.

Next HU Eventscalendar

HU Event and other updates on the HUBB Forum "Traveller's Advisories" thread.
ALL Dates subject to change.

2024:

Add yourself to the Updates List for each event!

Questions about an event? Ask here

HUBBUK: info

See all event details

 
World's most listened to Adventure Motorbike Show!
Check the RAW segments; Grant, your HU host is on every month!
Episodes below to listen to while you, err, pretend to do something or other...

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

"Ultimate global guide for red-blooded bikers planning overseas exploration. Covers choice & preparation of best bike, shipping overseas, baggage design, riding techniques, travel health, visas, documentation, safety and useful addresses." Recommended. (Grant)



Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance.

Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance™ combines into a single integrated program the best evacuation and rescue with the premier travel insurance coverages designed for adventurers.

Led by special operations veterans, Stanford Medicine affiliated physicians, paramedics and other travel experts, Ripcord is perfect for adventure seekers, climbers, skiers, sports enthusiasts, hunters, international travelers, humanitarian efforts, expeditions and more.

Ripcord travel protection is now available for ALL nationalities, and travel is covered on motorcycles of all sizes!


 

What others say about HU...

"This site is the BIBLE for international bike travelers." Greg, Australia

"Thank you! The web site, The travels, The insight, The inspiration, Everything, just thanks." Colin, UK

"My friend and I are planning a trip from Singapore to England... We found (the HU) site invaluable as an aid to planning and have based a lot of our purchases (bikes, riding gear, etc.) on what we have learned from this site." Phil, Australia

"I for one always had an adventurous spirit, but you and Susan lit the fire for my trip and I'll be forever grateful for what you two do to inspire others to just do it." Brent, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the (video) series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring!" Jennifer, Canada

"Your worldwide organisation and events are the Go To places to for all serious touring and aspiring touring bikers." Trevor, South Africa

"This is the answer to all my questions." Haydn, Australia

"Keep going the excellent work you are doing for Horizons Unlimited - I love it!" Thomas, Germany

Lots more comments here!



Five books by Graham Field!

Diaries of a compulsive traveller
by Graham Field
Book, eBook, Audiobook

"A compelling, honest, inspiring and entertaining writing style with a built-in feel-good factor" Get them NOW from the authors' website and Amazon.com, Amazon.ca, Amazon.co.uk.



Back Road Map Books and Backroad GPS Maps for all of Canada - a must have!

New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80G/S.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events all over the world with the help of volunteers; we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, or ask questions on the HUBB. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 19:03.