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Yamaha Tech Originally the Yamaha XT600 Tech Forum, due to demand it now includes all Yamaha's technical / mechanical / repair / preparation questions.
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  #1  
Old 16 Sep 2010
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Swapping kick motor into XT600E frame

Hello. This is my first post here. I'd been posting on advrider on the XT600 thread and I was referred here for more technical information.
I recently pickup up a '92 XT600 with a badly locked motor from sitting outside with no plug. I might be getting a kick motor from an '89 XT600 that I'd like to swap in. I understand that when swapping the electric start motor into the earlier frames, the countershaft sprocket on the motor is too far outboard. So I take it that when an earlier engine is put into a later frame, the countershaft sprocket will be too far inboard.
Does anyone have any idea what it will take to correct this? I'm not very familair with these particular engines yet.
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Old 16 Sep 2010
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Why go all the way when you can just try to part and sort out what's wrong with the E-start engine?

The only way I can see that swap of your to work is either shortening (if you have enough clearance) the front sprocket "axle" but making the groves on the axle itself OR just cut and weld which If I were you that would be a last resort... OR see if you can swap

I think you got at least 4 options:
  1. A) shortening (if you have enough clearance) the front sprocket "axle" but making the groves on the axle itself. B) shortening the axle and welding the front sprocket on to it (SHOULD BE THE LAST RESORT)
  2. Swapping the gearboxes..
  3. Swapping the top ends which sounds like a pretty good idea
  4. Buy an used frame for that 89 engine!

And I think that's about it........


Vando
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Old 16 Sep 2010
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One more thing...

The E-start engine... was it sitting WITH oil in it and for how long has it been sitting outside without the sparkplug?

There is one thing you can do since you're going to need some work on the engine...!
You need to squirt some 2-stroke thin oil through the sparkplug hole, put the bike in gear and give it a big strong push backwards!
That should unlock the engine.

I've done this in both my old DT125R and my DT50LCE to get the pistons unlocked! I used 1st gear in these but you're gonna need at least 3rd gear!


PLUS, If you've got some leftover oil maybe used oil from the other XT engine (or buy some cheap oil )you can drain the e-start oil, put that new oil in it.. but it's gonna become useless after!


Vando
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Old 16 Sep 2010
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Thanks for the responses. The motor I had was really stuck and corroded. I managed to get the cylinder off, and the bottom end might still be okay. One of my biggest reasons or the swap is that I absolutely despise electric starters. I've heard all the arguments for them, and I can even agree with some, but I can't bring myself to start a motorcycle with a button (unless it's the only way. I know a lot of bikes don't have and can't be made to have a kicker). I am fundamentally and morally opposed to it. To use an electric starter when a kicker is available would be to tear apart the very fabric of who I am and all that I consider sacred, leaving me an empty, soulless shell of a man. I feel that strongly about it.
So my original plan was to source a parts motor with all the kick start parts and do the conversion to my existing E motor. I know that I'm going to have to split the cases on the E motor, but the '89 parts motor I found seems to have a good bottom end. It would be nice if I could get away with not splitting any cases. I'm not afraid to do it, but I have a lot of other projects and torn apart motors to deal with.
I don't want to get an earlier frame because the one I have has a clean title, is in very good condition, and well... I already have it.
Also, perhaps I was reading your replies wrong, but I think the problem is that the kick motor sprocket would be too far inboard on the bike. This means the sprocket would need to be moved out, not in like I think you're suggesting.
I might just end up splitting the cases and doing the kick conversion to the E motor. It just depends on how the parts motor looks when I get it and how hard it looks to line up the sprockets.
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Old 16 Sep 2010
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I call future unabomber

Sorry =)

Well just fit a kickstart to the 92 then, no trouble.
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Old 16 Sep 2010
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Nancy boys!

Right, but I'm not sure that the bottom end on my E motor is any good at all. The whole motor is in pretty bad shape. I'm getting a kick motor that might be in ready-to-use condition.
No one seems to want me to do this swap. I don't understand... Perhaps I'm making you all very insecure with my ruggedly heroic, kickstart machismo? Next time you push that button, hear of my words and feel emasculated!
Just for the sake of technical discussion then, has anyone else attempted this swap or perhaps know anything about the sprocket misalignment? Or should I just give up and leave you all to your femstarters?

Disclaimer: I know I'm new here, and sometimes the spirit of writing can be misunderstood when reading it. This is all in good fun.
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Old 16 Sep 2010
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or, for about $2k, I could sell you a fully operational bike with ONLY a kickstarter. I know from advrider how you're a passionate person about your bikes. mine pretty much needs JUST steering head bearings to be in perfect shape. it even has that lovely drum you so love on the back wheel. only catch is, you gotta come here for the bike.
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Old 16 Sep 2010
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I was just telling you a couple of things you could do lol...

The easiest, safest and probably less expensive bet is to keep the E-model engine and fit the kickstart parts!

btw.. you don't actually need the decompression mechanism...I don't have it in mine as it's usually a source of alot of starting problems out there..


Vando
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Old 16 Sep 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bacardi23 View Post

btw.. you don't actually need the decompression mechanism...I don't have it in mine as it's usually a source of alot of starting problems out there..
come try and kick MINE over without it. then tell me you dont need it. my bike was rebuilt and has factory compression, which is disturbingly high. once it hits TDC, IT WILL NOT spin any farther.
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Old 17 Sep 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRadBaron View Post
..No one seems to want me to do this swap. I don't understand... Perhaps I'm making you all very insecure with my ruggedly heroic, kickstart machismo?
Well, I definitely want you to.... go for it, take lots of pics and post them here as you go...


This guy put a XT550 engine in a XT600E. It did fit pretty well. I'm told the XT550 engine is almost the same as the XT600 up until 1989. See link:


ADVrider - View Single Post - The XT550 Thread: Info, Stories and Mods Inside!
__________________
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Yamaha XT600E '01, Honda XR400 '03, Yamaha XT550 '83
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Old 17 Sep 2010
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buy me the ticket and I'll go there!
If I can't kick it, I'll pay you back!

How about it?
I can kick mine to life and it is also stock engine compression..

Press it just a bit passed TDC and give it a good long and powerfull kick and it'll come to life, trust me!


Vando

(and that's with my still-in-recovery aquilles tendon..had a partial achilles tendon rupture last year)
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  #12  
Old 17 Sep 2010
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Sorry Bob, I only buy messed up $100 bikes that don't run. I guess that's why I do a lot of engine swapping, though. And also, my bike will be kickstart only by the time I'm through with it. It's not enough to simply not use the electric starter, I have to get rid of the e-starter and all related components. I've already done it to my CB350 and XS650. The rest of my stuff never had a button...the way God intended motorcycles.
Thanks for the XT550 link, I'll check it out soon. I will post pictures of things as I progress.
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Old 17 Sep 2010
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I understand man.

I've got to admit, I've got an immense deal of respect for you, your passion and beliefs in this way of life are stronger than that found in any holy man.

there is no joy in buying a bike and NOT working on it. none. if you've resurrected the bike from the dead, you can be proud of your ride when its finished.
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Old 17 Sep 2010
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I'm glad you understand, Bob. Many people don't. I am pretty committed to my way of motorcycling, but unlike many holy men I still manage to have a great deal of fun. That and I don't generally begrudge others who don't agree with me (though I might tease them a little).
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Old 17 Sep 2010
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words to really live by: to thy own self be true.

one day man, I'd LOVE to come meet you up there.
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