Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > Technical, Bike forums > Yamaha Tech

Yamaha Tech Originally the Yamaha XT600 Tech Forum, due to demand it now includes all Yamaha's technical / mechanical / repair / preparation questions.
Contact Overland Solutions for all your custom modifications and setup for overland travel.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12 Oct 2003
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: London,England
Posts: 351
supermoto

has anyone made a supermoto out of an xt600 3aj or have any suggestions about what wheels would fit spacers upgrading brakes etc or would i be better to get a ttr600 and build this up it just happens i have a spare 3aj doing nothing. thanks
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 13 Oct 2003
Steve Pickford's Avatar
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 1,025
Are you intending to fit cast or spoked wheels? Cast are easier to locate & you'll have a greater choice but check them carefully if buying from a breakers.

I've got 1100EFE forks & yokes in my DR600 with an FZR600 wheel, EXUP disc & GSX-R1100 caliper. The yokes went straight in, with the aid of a spacer from a GS750. If intending to use cast wheels and the original forks, check the distance between the inside of the fork sliders as trailbike forks are generally closer to together than regular road bike forks. I went for the fork swap as there was no room for speedo drive. Digital bicycle speedo (cheap) or one of the aftermarket enduro speedo/trip computers (expensive) as advertised in TBM are other options. The greater hub width on wide cast wheels is the problem. Big discs and different calipers mean one off caliper mounts also.

I fitted an RGV250m rear wheel to my DR.Once again hub width caused problems. The width of the RGV caliper mount had to be reduced by machining the outer face and the spacer on the left protruding from the sprocket carrier only sticks out by 1mm but the wheel is central.

Converting from a drum rear to a disc rear present their own problems, as do tyre width, caliper torque arms.

I managed all of the above myself, with help of friends with lathes etc. Paying someone to do it is not cheap, as is getting wider 17" rims laced to your original hubs (£500 plus tyres, disc etc). Try looking in TBM or Supermoto magazine, there's usually wheels etc for sale in every issue.

Good luck

Steve
__________________
My photos: www.possu.smugmug.com
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 19 Oct 2003
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: sunny England
Posts: 789
i just got new wheels laced onto old hubs, secondhand complete with tyres. if you want to go the whole hog with uprated brakes, suspension etc then a whole new front end would be the best bet because hop-up parts are rare+expensive unless you can make your own.
re; speedo, i worked out the difference in readings between the old 21" and new 17" wheels and marked the speedo face accordingly. the speedo will read about 16% too fast with a 17" front wheel.
this has worked great but ive seen on the new husqvarna450 a lovely setup with a bike computer in a backlit housing with built in idiot lights. to buy as spares will cost about £70.

------------------
dave
__________________
dave
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 21 Oct 2003
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: London,England
Posts: 351
Thanks for advice.
I have just bought a TT600 allready supermotoed as I think its cheaper then changing wheels etc.
I do like the idea of a digital speedo is this difficult to set up?
Any advice on starting the TT it is 98 model no battery kickstart only.Sometimes it will fire up and die or a bit of smoke will puff out the exhust,Is this flooded?if so what to do? the previous owner did go through the starting routine but i think i may have flooded the engine.It also has a CJD cam fitted?Could this affect starting?
Also any good TT600 webb sites
Thanks for any help Bolla.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 21 Oct 2003
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Slough, UK
Posts: 153
I am in the process of motarding my 3AJ too.

Unfortunately there is no cheap and easy solution to installing 17inch rims. I am going to get rims laced onto my existing hubs (500 quid is about right).

However I would advocate against swapping forks for a road bike's. Reason is that the appeal of supermotos for me is the (almost) all-terrain capability of road wheels with dirt-bike suspension. You need the long travel to soak up potholes etc on tarmac. Check out the suspension travel on factory supermotos - they are all of similar length to the 3AJ/TT's stock.

Fitting a complete front end from another bike is unlikely to be cheaper than uprating the existing set-up. Also this is a more complex and therefore less elegant solution (if that's important to you).

Search the net for Rach Tech Emulators. These little gadgets cost 100 quid for a pair, and fit inside your existing forks. They turn your forks into new style cartridge type items, which provide firmer damping under brakes and softer damping when the front wheel encounters sharp bumps (read the bumph on their site for a full explanation). I'm going to install these on my travel bike too.

There are plenty of places in the UK that will CNC machine an oversize brake disc to fit your rim for about 160 quid. I bought a Braking supermoto caliper on ebay for 120 quid, add another 150 for a new master cylinder and caliper bracket. Total 530 squid (excluding the rims) for a quality and easy-to-install front end. Compare this to the cost, time and effort of finding and grafting on a front end from some other bike.

Of course, it's all a matter of personal opinion and preference. Does the TT you bought have standard suspension travel and standard hubs?


------------------
Barry
3AJ Tenere
__________________
Barry
Yamaha XT600Z 3AJ Tenere
Honda ST1100 Pan European Police
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 21 Oct 2003
Steve Pickford's Avatar
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 1,025
All kickstart bikes feel different when trying to start them.

Practice turning the bike over & trying to recognise when it is just past TDC - once found, this is the time to give a good kick. Modern singles, IMO tend to have lightweight internals with a high compression ratio requiring a short sharp kick compared to my friends Panther 600 which has very heavy internals but a low compression ratio needing a long slow kick. Other factors that can affect ease of starting is kickstart length and the the primary drive ratio.

At first, keep the throttle closed and use the de-compressor lever if fitted. Find out if the carb has a pumper fitted, if so, be wary of too much throttle or you will flood it. Sometimes they can be hard to start when warm, but okay when hot. My DR usually requires the choke & plenty of throttle in this istuation. Cleaned & gapped plugs and a well adjusted de-comp. cable all aid easy kick starting.

Injury can result if you get it wrong; my old XL500 kicked back when wearing jeans. My foot slipped off the kick start & the serrated footpeg went through my jeans and removed a 6" long strip of skin from my shin - you cann ot imagine the pain, blood & tears! Turns out that the de-comp. cable had snapped. I actually managed to start the bike by hand until I had a new cable, by leaning over the bike & keeping my face out of the way in case of kick back.

Take your time and vary your technique, you'll find something that works for you.

Steve
__________________
My photos: www.possu.smugmug.com
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 24 Oct 2003
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: sunny England
Posts: 789
bolla,
a digital speedo is very easy to set up, ask the thousands of kids with them on their bicycles!

more difficult is ensuring it doesnt get stolen, most are made so that you can unclip the unit and take it with you, great until you forget to take it off! also ive never seen a cheap one with backlighting, needed for your MoT.

the one i saw on the husqvarna was purpose made to get around these problems, but thats why it was £70 odd! bicycle computers start at £5ish.



------------------
dave
__________________
dave
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 24 Oct 2003
Steve Pickford's Avatar
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 1,025
Problem with bicycle speedos is a lack of accuracy if you follow the instructions, which usually involves entering the wheel circumference.

The circumference of a 17" sports tyre is about 1800 - 1850mm. We measured twice, once with a tape measure around the wheel & then again by measuring the radius etc, arriving at a similar figure bith times. This resulted in a 200mph bike if speedo was to be believed......

Enter the measurement but be prepared to keep on entering smaller or larger figures dependent on speedo under or over reading. Make a note of your bikes speed at a certain rpm in top gear & use as a guide. Keep trying until the speed is correct for that gear & rpm.

We eventually settled on a figure of 1300mm, not 1800mm......

Most speedos don't have lights but you can buy an attachment that clips on to the h/bars.
Steve
__________________
My photos: www.possu.smugmug.com
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 26 Oct 2003
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: sunny England
Posts: 789
its no good measuring it that way, theres a flat spot on the bottom of the tyre from the weight of the bike, and the working circumference of the wheel will be slightly smaller than what you can measure. not a lot smaller, but enough to change the circumference 4 or 5 inches. put another way, you will be going 8-9% faster than your speedo is saying you are, on top of the 10% allowed by law.
fancy those odds against a GATSO anyone?

stand the bike upright with the tyre valve exactly on the bottom of the wheel. chalk a line on the ground, wheel the bike forwards until its in the same place and chalk another line. measure between the lines, and theres your circumference.

------------------
dave


a mate has a kawasaki W650, a lovely 60s style bike. she can use the kickstarter with one finger, its like a sewing machine! another mate had his shin broken by his husky 610 kicking back. OUCH!

[This message has been edited by DAVSATO (edited 25 October 2003).]
__________________
dave
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 27 Oct 2003
Steve Pickford's Avatar
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 1,025
I take you point on the flat spot but this in no way accounts for the discrepancy in figures that we needed to input.

Steve
__________________
My photos: www.possu.smugmug.com
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 29 Oct 2003
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: sunny England
Posts: 789
good point, i guess they vary wildly in accuracy. unless you spend quite a bit of cash getting a very good one, they are just "toys" really, and i dont suppose they are tested to any sort of standard.
anyone know of any that are?
i always thought that any aftermarket speedo you fit has to be BS rated (or the EC thingummy now) to get through an MoT, but all these supermoto guys seem to have no trouble. maybe its like a competition exhaust, it "dissappears" at testing time? ive just got little number stickers on my original dial, thats been through 2 tests ok.

------------------
dave
__________________
dave
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


 
 


HU DVD Summer Special!

Now that summer is here, get On the Road! Take 30% off the Achievable Dream - On the Road! 2-DVD set until August 31 only. Get On the Road! Learn the tips to staying healthy, happy and secure on your motorcycle adventure!

Our veteran travellers share their tips (and great stories) for staying healthy, happy and secure on your motorcycle adventure.

"A fantastic, informative and inspirational DVD."

"It's brilliant - thank you very much!"

Check it out at the HU Store! Remember to use Coupon Code 'ONTHEROAD' on your order when you checkout.


Renedian Adventures


Renedian Adventures

What others say about HU...

"I just wanted to say thanks for doing this and sharing so much with the rest of us." Dave, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the DVD series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring! The new look of the website is very impressive, updated and catchy. Thank you so very much!" Jennifer, Canada

"...Great site. Keep up the good work." Murray and Carmen, Australia

"We just finished a 7 month 22,000+ mile scouting trip from Alaska to the bottom of Chile and I can't tell you how many times we referred to your site for help. From how to adjust your valves, to where to stay in the back country of Peru. Horizons Unlimited was a key player in our success. Motorcycle enthusiasts from around the world are in debt to your services." Alaska Riders

contest pic

10th Annual HU Travellers Photo Contest is on now! This is an opportunity for YOU to show us your best photos and win prizes!

NEW! HU 2014 Adventure Travel T-shirts! are now available in several colors! Be the first kid on your block to have them! New lower prices on synths!

HU 2014 T-shirts now in!

Check out the new Gildan Performance cotton-feel t-shirt - 100% poly, feels like soft cotton!


What turns you on to motorcycle travel?


Global Rescue, WORLDwide evacuation services for EVERYONE

Global Rescue is the premier provider of medical, security and evacuation services worldwide and is the only company that will come to you, wherever you are, and evacuate you to your home hospital of choice. Additionally, Global Rescue places no restrictions on country of citizenship - all nationalities are eligible to sign-up!


New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80 G/S motorcycle.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events (22 this year!); we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, the HUBB or to receive the e-zine. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.


Books & DVDs

amazon

All the best travel books and videos listed and often reviewed on HU's famous Books page. Check it out and get great travel books from all over the world.


Motorcycle Express for shipping and insurance!

Motorcycle Express

MC Air Shipping, (uncrated) USA / Canada / Europe and other areas. Be sure to say "Horizons Unlimited" to get your $25 discount on Shipping!
Insurance - see: For foreigners traveling in US and Canada and for Americans and Canadians traveling in other countries, then mail it to MC Express and get your HU $15 discount!




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:28.