rear brake pads cant fit
 

Hi, the piston seems to be too far out for the brake pads to fit. How can I get the piston in again for more space? (i havent touched the brake)

Hi
I left the old pad in on the piston side and used a set of water pump pliers to ease it back, squeezing on the pad and caliper, you need to protect the caliper with a thin bit of wood to stop it getting marked, or you could leave the old pads in and lever between them with some strong screwdrivers, it's worked for me every time.
Best of luck.....

Thanks, i got it back now. But now i cant get the pads in, its just not enough space on the back side of the brakedisc, between the brakedisc and the caliper body..the caliper body wont be able to be taken down into place.

I use a clamp like this:
http://static.traderscity.com/board/...amp-wood-1.jpg

works perfectly. Maybe your caliper isn't moving where it supposed to move? Some pictures pointing out the problem would really help.

yep.
For instance, is the caliper single-sided? (A piston on one side only).
From this:
I assume it is.

In which case, the whole caliper slides side-to-side on two pins, underneath little rubber gaiters.
Sometimes when you change the pads, specially if it's a long time since they were last changed, the caliper seizes on the pins. But it's usually easy to free off.
So if the caliper isn't moving side-to-side, you'll need to work out how you remove the caliper from the pins. Sometimes they unscrew from the caliper-holder, or there might be some clip arrangement.
You'll need to clean the pins - there may be rust there - and grease them carefully.
Don't damage the rubber gaiters.

A close-up photo or two would help, both sides of the caliper.
(Or the exact model of bike, probably someone here will know the procedure straightaway).

Its a XT600E year 2000 :)
I can take some pictures today. Maybe its necessary to take off the whole caliper body and clean it..i dont like the idea of having to bleed the system cause ive never done that before, so thats why i havent taken it apart yet.

Don't worry about bleeding. Usually no need to interfere with the hydraulics at all to clean up the sliding mechanism.

It would be handy to have a solid box or something similar, the height of the caliper off the ground, to give you a solid surface to work on.

And whatever you do, don't separate the two halves of the caliper - that's not necessary either.

Just as a safeguard, make sure there's no way you can accidentally press the rear brake pedal - just in case......

Pad replacement can be done by just swinging the caliper up away from the disc, but it's usually easier to remove it altogether. As long as you don't disturb the hose joint, you don't need to bleed it afterwards.

I usually use some water pump (slip-joint) pliers or at a pinch a woodworking clamp, and a big screwdriver with some wooden wedges. Anything to force the piston (pistons in the case of the front brake) evenly right back without touching the side surfaces. It/they must go right back into the caliper body so that they are flush or below - if they are proud of the caliper, even by a mm or so, they wil not go back with new pads.

Remove the part of the caliper that holds the pad opposite the piston (from memory, it just pulls off), clean and grease the sliding pins and reassemble making sure the rubber boots locate correctly in their grooves.

You've then got to get the anti-squeal shims and the pads back into the caliper - I find this the hardest bit of the operation as it is fiddly and requires three hands :) The shims are meant to clip in place, but if they are old they have lost their spring and will need holding. The caliper and pads should then slide over the disc, put the bolts back in, torque correctly, pump the pedal to restore pressure, and you're done.

If the above doesn't work, then there is something wrong somewhere, as it's a relatively easy and straightforward job. Pics would help here.

Hope this helps.

Heres some photos. Im not sure how the sliding mechanism works and where the bolt is for that.

http://imageshack.us/a/img819/5919/brake03xt600.th.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img571/2100/brake02xt600.th.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img38/7273/brake01xt600.th.jpg

The piston is obviously too far out, you need to push it back in. To do that I use a tool like in my previous post.

These tools sometimes tend to give a false sense of security. I remember when I could not move the darn piston with that tool, but could do so with the pressure of my thumb. Slightly misaligned pressure will absolutely block the piston and may cause damage. Push it out a bit more, clean the piston thoroughly, apply some break fluid and push.

BUT: Given the fact that most people have to top off the brake fluid as the pads wear down, it´s ususally a good idea to open the fluid container and remove excessive fluid when pressing back the piston - as there will just not be enough room in the container to accept all the fluid.

Cheers
Chris

I have taken the piston in, shouldnt have taken the picture before i did that.
Anyway, even when the piston is completely in, there is no way to fit any break pads. The biggest problem is the outside of the brakedisc where it seems to be like 1-2mm clearance.
Basically when i push down that big clunk on the top(caliperbody?) it wont come down if theres a break pad in there. When pushed down it covers the whole thing and its too close to the breakdisc..

Some of you said sliding pins,but i couldnt find any way to move the caliperbodys part individually. It looks like its 1 whole piece.

If you are disassembling it like in the picture - you have unbolted a sliding pin.
Put it back together, and unbolt the two bolts at the bottom (marked), and then try to fit the pads.
http://imageshack.us/a/img846/7273/brake01xt600.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Rear ones are super easy to fit if you got the correct pads and everything was working as should before you disassembled. I'd say maybe the disc is too big, but that's not the case here.

I have unbolted the two bolts at the bottom but obviously theres something wrong. Are the 2 sliding pins supposed to adjust the width of space where the disc is coming in between?
The left sliding pin can be loosened, the caliper will then pivot around the sliding pin on the right side.

I think maybe the right side sliding pin is stuck. Is that supposed to slide out?I cant see any screws or anything, so if thats supposed to slide out it must be really stuck or rusted. ?

Here is a picture with annotations:
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/7331/fuoa.jpg

Hi There!

In your photo, undo the bolt on the left and remove it. The caliper body will then rotate upwards, with the caliper almost at right angles to its original position, it should slide off (towards you). Hope this helps

Bill

Thank you very much, this explains it well. Im going to try this now :D

No problem and good luck

Bill

I still havent been able to get the caliper off the guide pin. It rotates but its pretty hard to rotate all the way to the right. I cant do it by hand but it moves if i hit it with a hammer (a wooden piece between, im not hitting it directly).
Could it be that the caliper has to be rotatet to the right and to the correct angle before its actually possible to slide it off the guide pin?

Im sure the caliper has to rotate 90 degrees before it will slide off. Perhaps its gummed up or rusted?

Its tighter the more i rotate it toward 90 degrees. Gonna try to force it to 90 and see if it comes off.

Mine moves very easily. So i think yours could be rusted

Damn, 4 years later and still not fixed?

Use penetrating fluid and heat.

Yea I know, still not fixed lol.. I used the old brake pads.
Here's a video that shows the problem, as you can see theres no way to fit a new pad. It must be rusted on the guide pin.
I think ill just unmount the caliper and deliver it to a local mechanic and ask them to fix it. I didnt want to mess with bleeding the brakes so I havent taken it off completely, but it can't be that hard..and it is time to just get it fixed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lzr9oS_wn4

Drill open the front and you have acess to the 6mm hex, if its really stuck! Try use piston to pump first, if it wont release go for drilling.

Yeb, seems to be stuck. You can get a straw from wd40/simular in under the rubberboot that protects the slidepin. Spray some wd40/ rustremover/ multioil inthere, and work the caliper up and down, and from side to side. If the bushing under the other rubberboot is stuck, do it there aswell while youre at it. Dont use all your forces, but some slight "manhandling" should be okay.

Do that, perhaps for several days, and see if it loosens up. Things start to turn for the better as soon as you have some additional movement.

Heat would work really well, as the aluminium expands faster than the pin, but you might ruin the rubberboot if youre not carefull. A small blowtorch is really good for adding concentrated heat, to a small area.

Its strange that in your video it rotates upwards okay but wont slide along the pin easily. It needs to be able to slide freely as youve discovered to allow the clearance for the new pads. Are you rotating the caliper to the right enough to then slide it off? I will have a look at mine tomorrow ( its off the bike at the moment) and refresh my memory as to how far it has to go for removal. The brake bleeding process is fairly easy and the guys on here will help if you get stuck.

Bill

Im maybe not rotating it enough, it rotates "freely" at low angles but the closer to 90 degrees it gets it gets harder to rotate. In the video you can see that its stuck, i just hit it a bit with my hand and it turns down again. Maybe at 60 degrees its so stuck that I cant move it by hand. I have tried to carefully hit it a bit with a hammer and a wooden piece between and am then able to rotate it up to 90 degrees. It seems like it does rotate on the pin but it does not move at all on the pin back and forth.. the other side moves..so this is kind of strange.

Also noticed that it seems that the pin itself has sideways movement.. Could it be that it seized and while braking the caliper moved but on the right side it was seized so instead of moving in/out on the pin the pin itself had to bend?

I will go and have another look at mine incase im missing something obvious. I cant think what though. Looking at your video again. Your brake line isnt restricting the calipers movement at all is it? Im not sure whether the pin could come loose in use cause its never happened to me . That pin does unscrew from the bracket but im not sure if you could remove it with the caliper in situ and if it would be any better for you if you could. I think xtrocks idea of using brake pressure to pop it off is the best one .

Checked mine and the pin is screwed on and off with an allan key but its from the wrong end. i.e. inside the caliper.

Must be different then, the one from the 4pt i have dont have any screw from behind. But its stuck like hell when i checked it, have to mount it back on bike to fix.

Mine is a 4pt and its screwed in from the front. This is covered by the caliper when its assembled. I was mistaken initially xtrock.
Bill

I dont understand what you mean? where is the allen on yours covered?

On the end of the sliding pin. Its the end that you cant see when the caliper is on. So not the end where its screwed into the brake bracket. Is that description anymore helpful?

Bill

If you look at my second picture i posted xtrock, and enlarge it you can just make out the allan key shape in the end.

Yes inside to remove pin, i understand what you mean now. Dont forget to remove and lubricate from time to time. You cant buy new pin, only the boot.

Hi Bergspre.

Any joy getting the caliper off??

Waiting with bated breath here lol

Bill

Hey

No Luck yet, I had a new try today.
I even tried to use one of thos flywheel pullers but the problem is that theres nothing to hold against to be able to pull off the caliper.

I then removed the wheel to get some more space and we tried to hammer on the caliper part that sits on the pin. I think maybe the gap was bigger then before after hitting but it just didnt come off. Im not sure how hard my father was banging on it.. if its actually seized then I guess the last resord is to try with some heat?

I recorded a video and yes i know this is absolutely not a good idea to hit like that..it will/maybe has already done damage but i'm quite desperate now so..

And btw when you look at the caliper from behind you can see the pin end and when you rotate the caliper the pin also rotates..so clearly they are stuck together I think.

Here is the video of me and my father trying to hit it. We used an old fat screw and held it against the edge of the caliper part that goes outside the pin and hit that with a hammer..didnt come off :s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27Ov6RvUWRE

Hitting like that on it is no good, even pressure is the key for things seized. Use heat on the end out and use the caliper piston to pressure it out. Recomend to put the other bolt in when you do, then you get even pressure on both sides, loosen bolt a little at the time.

Would a heat gun be enough heat? Or do I need propane?
What about the brake liquid should I take off the hose when heating?

Yes use the heatgun, propane will ruin the paint. No you need the brake fluid inside for use of piston, just fill up the gap where brake pads are and pump the brake.

I think its gotta be heat. Ive never had to do it myself but xtrocks right i think heat and even pressure is the only way to do it. The pin might be knackered if its thats stuck. Xtrock said theyre unavailable new so i hope its just gunge !

I tried with heatgun and hitting but it didnt move at all.
Im not sure how to fill up the space that the break pad takes. Should the wheel be on? Its quite hard to fin something that fits in there and still makes the caliper be able to move since that will also prohibit it from moving out.

Remove springs from the caliper, those who hold the pads. Then install the brake pads and use them, if its not enough fill up between them with what you have around, wood/steel..No, no wheel on! If you dont get it off with this metod, i recomend to remove caliper, empty a couple of cans with rust releaser in a small bin and drop the caliper down to soak for days. If you have a plastic bag that is 100% water proof you can use it, fill up and have the caliper side that is stuck down to soak, hang bag up.

I tried that now, put the brake pad in and it seemed to work. I also had the bolt in on the left side. And when I pumped the left side of the caliper moved but not the right side. Unfortunately the bolt also got stuck because of the piston pushing it probably took the threads on the bolt. The bolt was very hard to screw out but i forced it and it broke off. A bit of it is sitting inside..

Well I think I can fix that later, i think the bolt that is left in there can be taken out. Now ill try what you said and remove the whole thing and let it soak in rust releaser. If it wont come loose after that ill take the caliper to a local mechanic.

Yes you need longer bolt so you have more threads and screw it slowly out when you pump, you got pressure and maybe had a couple of threads left. It was only for support in the beginning, now you can use a a quick grip, the old one you can screw slowly out when pressure the pedal. Remember if you are new in mechanics you need to take everything slowly, or you get alot of broken bolts and damage things on the way.

When you got pressure on this, dont just give more on the pedal. Let it stay with pressure for a day and varm up from time to time with new rust releaser. If you have freeze spray you can heat up the outside and freeze the bolt inside when its pressure on this.

An anglegrinder is starting to sound appealing...

Yes if they only sold the part you need, its not easy to find caliper used. And pretty expensive new so take your time and you maybe save this. Offc if you have a machine shop that can make a new one i would just cut it open and drill out the part. Use dremel and cut at the boot.

This thread is a good reminder for everyone to pay attention to this problem, rear brake pads last for years if bike dont run very much. Its very importan to lubricate the pin once a year. And maybe it was luck the bolt snapped for you, in my head the bolt must be heavy rustet to snapp. And good it happend now instead of when you need it for emergency brake!

Well worth spending ten minutes doing a clean and grease on this. I generally do this job at least once a year. I would never have imagined that the caliper would get so stuck to this pin though!

I must admit that i dont do it once a year, but after seeing this and found out my spare is stuck the same way i will for sure do it now.

Been working on my spare and must say that iam amazed how seized it is! Used propane, quick grip and we talk about mm it moves sideway, in our out is out of the question at this stage. Iam thinking a tool like this will come in handy for this job: Bremsestempelverktøy - Biltema

Might be well worth the investment !

Yes and remove the boot part 6, its mounted down there and its blocking for the rust remover coming down to the pin. Mine is same now, can move it sideways now. But it only moves on the threads not the pin inside, no store open today so cant buy the tool. Paint was already ruin on this so i can use the propane, good paint originally holds pretty much heat.

I see now that it wont help with the tool, there is actually no room beetween parts to help in this case! I recomend to use piston, one brake pad inside and then use a steel bar in front from side to side. Will help you a little, but then you hit the rear of the caliper(the claw).

The other suggestion is to use a pressure bench and only do pressure around the pin, you have no control before it get damaged so be careful.

Have tried all the tricks with heat and freeze, hitting and pulling...And no, not any sign it will let go. I recon the threads on this pin or mounting will be destroyed before it let go, so more pressure in bench is maybe to much. How about cutting open the outside end, then you get into the Hex.

So here what you do, drill open with 8/10mm(hex6mm). You then have acess to the hex and you can fill up with WD40 and heat up. You can hammer direct on the hex and pressure it out if you like. Use JB weld or similar to seal up after. Trust me it is almost welded in there, i had the hex in and was hanging over the caliper, wont move at all. Let it stay over night with WD40 and try again.

Im pretty sure ive seen spare pins somewhere, or in a rebuild kit. Otherwise it should be that difficult to have one made. Find a bolt that suits the threads, then weld on a piece of pipe ect to act as the pin.

My friend had one siezes aswell, he destroyed the caliper trying to take it apart.

I lube mine several times a year, together with the suspentionlinkage/swingarm ect on the bikes that doesnt have grease nipples. But they see a lot of offroad and dualsport use.

Ok, heat and boiling of wd40. Over night and 1meter extension of the hex, nothing moves. Heat up again with propane, 6mm hex in from front and big hammer. Have good support underneath with something that absorb the pressure, angle it on the side so it dont take pressure on the claw. Hit hard time after time and it will give in, but i had to hit all the way out. There is no way you get it out without drilling the front, hitting the hex from front gives perfect pressure on the pin. Dont forget to fill boot with grease, its bad engineering all the way on this solution of rear brake caliper.

http://i65.tinypic.com/119nx2v.jpg

http://i67.tinypic.com/14txwz4.jpg

The pin is 52mm long, 14mm with threads, 11,95mm pin size, 7,8mm threads size.

http://i65.tinypic.com/2q3d7jp.jpg

Will that pin clean enough and undamaged for re-use do you reckon?

No problem, ill give it some rust threatment now.

http://i65.tinypic.com/24xjfpv.jpg

Nice one :thumbup1:

Checked the one on bike and its a couple of years since i greased the pin, it was ok. Use MoS2 grease, imoprtan that the boot is in groove on booth side. I quess maybe some boots come of the groove and water comes in, specially when you have new pads and boot is stretch.

I'm not sure about bikes, but most automotive brake systems use rubber components made from EPDM rubber, including caliper piston seals, dust boots, caliper slide boots, etc.
EPDM rubber is not compatible with your common mineral(petro) based grease or oils. They cause the rubber to swell. Seen on this link EPDM Chemical Compatibility Results
You must use either Rubber Grease which is castor based, or a synthetic grease compatible with EPDM rubber.
You can buy specific caliper slide synthetic grease, otherwise just use rubber grease.
If the caliper slide boots swell, they then can't keep the water out, then the rust starts.

Bob

Hi Bobmech!

I knew about using the correct grease on the caliper seals and i bought some specifically to use when i rebuilt the calipers. Never entered my head to use it on the sliding pins etc because of the boots. The tub i bought was only.small so i used it only on the stuff i thought i needed to...thanks for the heads up!

Bill

Dont worry Awolxt, if you can use the grease on the seals its ok for the boot. Anyway whats importan is that you have a layer around where the pin enter caliper, prevent water/dirt coming in. Need to handle heat or it gums up. THe boot is avaible for phurcase, the is not..

BTW bergspre did you follow my steps and got it off?

Haven't had the chance to do more yet. But, very nice pictures and I now understand how that pin works. When you said it turns on the threads, I understand thats whats happening with mine too since I can see on the backside of the caliper the end of the pin that it moves/turns when the caliper turns. And thats ofcourse why its not rotating up to 90 degrees because what your really doing is screwing the pin in more and pusing the threads.

Are you sure you used a 9mm bore to drill a hole? isnt that big?
I wonder what would happen if I put the thing in a ultrasonic cleaner.. ive been thinking about getting one on ebay.

Gonna try your steps soon.

Yes its ok with 9mm, you will have some room for the hex key and get all dirt and metal out from drilling. What i did after is to take a piece of hard paper and press against the hole from inside, then you can use epoxy/JB weld or what ever you want to seal up. A little paint outside and its like new! Dont waste more time on this, follow my steps and its done in 30min.

This one is good for hammering all the way, you can start with a shorter. https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-Magnet.../dp/B005NY5ASU

This one i think will be best for hammering power. http://www.ultimategarage.com/shop/p...oducts_id=2547

And i also recomend removing the bolt holding swing arm, same shit if you dont lubricate. Had to use a sledge hammer to remove it and i see others have serious problems getting it out. Worst case scenario is cutting the swing arm to remove it. On my 3tb its possible to lubricate with nipple, 4pt there is nothing. Why they removed them i dont understand, maybe the lubrication from nipple was not good enough and its better removing bolt. Be carefull with bolt its expensive, have nut on so you dont hammer the threads in the beginning. But dont hit the nut, screw it in so you hit the bolt.

Its out! :D Adding photos and a video later..

I have cleaned the pin and the hole that it should glide into.
The pin will go quite easy in but not further then on the picture. Do you remember if this is normal? The hole is probably not the same width further in so im guessing that this is ok.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...609_183951.jpg

http://i68.tinypic.com/wrfey8.jpg


Ive just taken this of mine which is obviously on the bike. It looks like youve pretty much got yours sorted i reckon

This is a year later but maybe someone would like to see this, as I said last summer videos were on the way..

Here's a link to 3 videos I took while hammering out the guide pin.
:)
caliper guide pin stuck youtube playlist

Hi bergspre.

Watching your videos and im thinking im going to go out and check and regrease mine. I never would have thought they would gum up so bad. Glad it was sorted without damage anyway.

Bill

Think its importan that you inform in video that its possible to use hex key first and try to make it come lose, and if you gonna use hammer its importan to support the end you hammer on and not the other part. Just luck it didnt break off if you hammered so hard.

Honda, Kawasaki and Suzuki all use the same general caliper(mostly Honda and Kawi) on many of there ds bikes so pins can probably be gotten new from them. The hole spacing and mount bracket vary but the pins are often very close to the same and some may work fine. otherwise a good polishing and cover everything in nickel antiseize , a person can also have them plated in nickel which would work great for rust prevention .



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