TT600S electroshocking rider

[Rihards]

Hello
new to this comunity, so allready sory for my english.
Have been looking for topic like this for some time, but could not find anything.
I hope someone can help me before i get fried.
My TT600s started to electrocute me one day. If touched engine and handlebars powerful electroshock was delivered. Assumed that it is something in high voltage parts. Changed coil,plug and wire. problem stopped. Few days after that I got shocked again while riding. last high voltage part left on bike is plug cap. Could that be the cause of problem?
Maybe some poor grounding of wire harness?
Will be grateful for any advice!

[Tomkat]

When the coil delivers a spark to the plug, that spark has got to go through to earth somehow (no circuit = no spark). Normally it will just flow through the engine, then via either an earth wire back to the battery or, via the engine mounts to the frame and thence to the earth lead.

That spark will flow through the easiest route back to battery earth and if it can't go through the bike it will go through you!

Your problem lies on the earth side, not the delivery voltage side. Look at how the current from the spark can return to the battery. Are the engine mounts badly corroded? Is there an earth wire from the engine to the fame, or the frame to the battery, that is broken or has corrosion where it bolts on?

[Rihards]

This bike is kickstart only and has no battery.
Does that mean, that spark vants to ground back to generator?
Engine has no seperate wire for grounding it.
Can I connest engine to central ground Wire that is also used by lights? or should i simply connect it to frame?

[xtrock]

Find the leak, change plug cap.

[Walkabout]

Originally Posted by Rihards

This bike is kickstart only and has no battery.

I guess you have a TT600R, otherwise known as a TTR600 therefore.


If you make a search in here (top right hand side of your screen) for such terms then you will find a few threads about the kick start Belgarda Yamaha.


I used to own one!
Casting around, just for old times sake, I have come upon this which seems to provide the manual for these bikes:-
(maybe for just the TT600RE?)




https://www.manualslib.com/manual/81...0r.html#manual


https://www.manualslib.com/products/...r-3585352.html

[Rihards]

Thank you Dave, but this manual of TT600R clearly shows motorcycle with battery.
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/81...page=46#manual

[jjrider]

You need a battery or capacitors to take up the extra juice and absorb it . There isn't any bike that has no battery as far as I know, some people take the battery out and exchange for capacitors . I'd guess that the extra juice is building up somewhere on the bike till you ground it out and relieve it.


.

[Walkabout]

Originally Posted by jjrider

You need a battery or capacitors to take up the extra juice and absorb it . There isn't any bike that has no battery as far as I know

.

The TT600R, with magneto generated ignition, has no battery.
The outline specification:-
https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/mo...t600r%2097.htm

[Rihards]

This is what my bike looks like.
https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/mo...t600s%2094.htm
No battery whatsoever. Capacitor is an original elecrical component.

[Walkabout]

Originally Posted by Rihards

This is what my bike looks like.
https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/mo...t600s%2094.htm
No battery whatsoever. Capacitor is an original elecrical component.

There are a couple of links within your link that may be able to source a manual for your bike, or at least a wiring diagram.


stammbaum


Home


I seem to recall that there is much more ongoing interest in this generation of bikes in Germany than elsewhere, hence those websites.


Even so, the wiring is very simple based on the battery-less system but a direct magneto ignition is reputed to produce more high voltage circuitry compared with a system based on a battery if I recall correctly.
In other words, more of the wiring that does exist in a TTR600 is carrying high voltage which could lead to "jumping the gap" other than at the spark plug.


Certainly, it is worth checking that all the earth/grounds are clean and not corroded/dirty.
Electricity will always take the line of least resistance, so if it is going via you then there is a fault in the "as designed" bike circuit.



I did have a problem with my plug cap all those years ago: it had pulled apart internally but that couldn't be seen visually but only when the cap was taken apart; this was probably caused by me pulling the cap many times while working on the bike.

In that case, the spark did not get to the plug at all.

[Tomkat]

Originally Posted by Rihards

This bike is kickstart only and has no battery.
Does that mean, that spark vants to ground back to generator?
Engine has no seperate wire for grounding it.
Can I connest engine to central ground Wire that is also used by lights? or should i simply connect it to frame?

Sorry, I was a bit off target above, but have had another think. The spark passes from the HT coil across the plug gap and has to return to the HT coil for there to be a circuit. If it can't return via the normal way (via the engine block to the other side of the secondary winding on the coil) then it either won't spark, or it will find another way - you.

So you need to look at how the engine connects back to the ignition coil.

[Warin]

Originally Posted by jjrider

There isn't any bike that has no battery as far as I know,

Wrong.
Early motor vehicles had no battery. And the lights were gas powered things little better than a candle.
Then you want to look up magneto ignitions - no battery required .. used on some aeroplane engines ... manually started by rotating the propeller. Quite a few early racing motorcycles used magneto ignitions - they ran with out any battery.

--------------------------------

Electric shocks can come form anywhere in the high tension electric circuit - hi side or low earthy side. I'd check things are bolted down firmly - not super tight, just not loose. Then I'd look for any loose connectors - ones that are not fully home. Then I'd look for any water in those connectors .. or any green mould growing in there.. or dirt. Then I'd look for any cracks in the insulation .. or any cuts in the insulation particularity if it rubs on any thing .. like the fuel tank.


-------------
The return path (low side of HT) is;
spark plug body to engine
engine to frame (through bolts and/or simple contact between frame and engine)
frame to coil (sometimes by a wire sometimes through a bolt that the coil mounts with)
Good luck.

[jjrider]

I guess I had newer bikes in mind , haven't done anything with magnetos , always thought they still had a capacitor for juice to build up so as to have sufficient for each spark thrown. Learned a bit.


.

[xtrock]

Doesnt have to be old stuff for the use of the magneto, lawnmowers, snowremowers, chainsaw etc uses this for ignition when they have that manual starting and no battery.

Take the bike into a dark place in garage or have a blanket over engine part, spray some water around sparkplug and look for spark.

[Walkabout]

Originally Posted by xtrock

Take the bike into a dark place in garage or have a blanket over engine part, spray some water around sparkplug and look for spark.

I can testify that it isn't too easy with these kicker only bikes: 600cc of compression.
It certainly helps if there are two people involved - one to kick her over and one to observe the effect.


For anyone still interested in magnetoes, do a search for "trembler magnetoes" from way back at the beginning of internal combustion engine technology.