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Yamaha Tech Originally the Yamaha XT600 Tech Forum, due to demand it now includes all Yamaha's technical / mechanical / repair / preparation questions.
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  #1  
Old 22 Sep 2013
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No start 89 XT600 kick start only

Hello
previously had a no spark (thanks forum) and have progressed to a no start .
I have not had this bike running. Motor comes from a 89 kick stark. Motor has a newish piston and top end. (previous owner claims very low hours put on since rebuild}.
Bike was stripped down and combined with my old 85 xt600 to get one solid bike.
Ok I can't get it started and its a beast to kick over.
I have not done a compression test yet but based on the receipts, old piston and the kick start resistance I believe the compression should be good for it to start and break my leg.
I have spark
carb is getting fuel at least to float bowl
carb has been cleaned with new o rings and gaskets. A/F is at 2 turns out
kicked for awhile with choke out no throttle -nothing
air filter removed short spray starter fluid- nothing
kicked a bunch more- nothing
rolled down steep hill a bunch of times - one or twice it tried to turn over it seemed. lights brightened looked promising but nothing more. Got fed up and went home.

Plug was dry. (pulled before the hill jump)
Plug is new and gapped
I had the air filter out. (maybe too lean to start?)
no backfire no popping
no gas smell
kill switch on run
feels like its not getting fuel but I was hoping the stater fluid would of at least kick something over.

Advice please
Greg
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  #2  
Old 24 Sep 2013
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try to put a squirt of gas directly into the cylinder through the spark plug hole. I always mix some 2 cycle oil(40:1 ratio) in this gas to give some lube to the cylinder. Maybe 1 teaspoon of gas/oil mix at a time. If the spark is right it should start a bit. That will tell you if it's carb or cylinder issue. Also turn the idle screw clockwise(raise idle) about a 1/3 to 1/2 turn. You can readjust later once bike is running.

For my bike starting I need to, keep the ignition off, full choke, no throttle , kick it over three or four times( not hard just steady to draw fuel). The return kicker to the top, turn ignition on and one almighty kick. If no start, return kick lever to top and repeat hard kick till it starts.I can never give it any throttle while starting.
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  #3  
Old 25 Sep 2013
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Thanks for advice, but still nothing
What I have done is poured in a little gas straight to cylinder.
Have sprayed started into carb inlet
I have a spark tester hooked up for testing not for starting attempts. It shows spark, how much i'm not sure but its there and even on an easy kick.
I have never had this motor running as it is new to bike. I know it has a newish wiseco 4797m09700 piston in there. I don't know if this is making it so hard to kick as I don't remember my 85 xt this hard. I can just stand up on it.
I know i might not have the sequence right yet for the decompression release but this is nuts how hard it is to turn over.
I will pull carb again and give a look, it was thoroughly cleaned with new o rings and gasket.
I have gas in the float bowls.
will check float height again
I have another ignition coil I can try as well
When I take spark plug out after trying to start it has a faint gas smell
So many hours in her all ready
Greg
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  #4  
Old 25 Sep 2013
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Put a couple good squirts of motor oil down the spark plug hole and kick it over slowly a couple times to make sure the cylinder walls are good and coated, then just squirt of gas, put plug back in, slowly push the kick lever down till it hits "the wall". push just hard enough till it passes that spot, get past it barely. Release the lever to allow it to return fully. Now kick it like your trying to shove the lever 2 feet into the ground. If no fire then you have something other than fuel issues. It may not completey start but it should fire and sputter for a bit. And remember, no throttle whatsoever when doing this. After this you may try repeating this whole setup only give it 1/16 of a turn of throttle, just to try.

I will never use starting fluid on gas motors !

I kind of suspect it is cdi . Try tapping it several times with a screwdriver handle.
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  #5  
Old 26 Sep 2013
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I checked the ignition coil for power. Now i'm confused. Battery is at 11.7 volts. multimeter with black lead to batt neg, red lead to coil (orange) from CDI side I get no power.
Now with red lead to coil and black lead to batt POSITIVE i get 11.7 volts.
So i shut ignition off and I get 11.7volts as i am making a circuit?
So switch black lead to ignition coil (orange) CDI side, red lead to batt neg and -11.7volts.

Confused, shouldn't i get black lead to batt neg and red lead to coil for power? and wouldn't it be slightly less then just checking battery?

But I am getting spark

I have another cdi and coil. i'll swap each out on their own. Both were from my old running 85 xt but that was now about a dozen years ago.

Plug is new
gas is fresh

THANKS for the advice and help
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  #6  
Old 26 Sep 2013
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You can charge battery or buy a new if its not taking charge, 11,7 is to low.
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  #7  
Old 26 Sep 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtrock View Post
11,7 is to low.
Yup, new battery if only to rule that out, but like rock says 11.7 is to low.

Motobatt AGM`s are good value, or an Odyssey if you have the spare dough.

Mezo.
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  #8  
Old 26 Sep 2013
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Useful thread in here

Yes, your batt should be around 13+ Volts.

There's a useful flow chart for fault finding in this thread, at post number 8:-
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...-battery-71772

Clean connectors in the loom, a good battery and the like are pre-requisites for fault finding.
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  #9  
Old 26 Sep 2013
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Battery was around 12.5v when trying to start. When it was at 11.7v it was starting to wear down after starting.
Would the kick start model need a strong battery?
I was curious to having power at ignition coil with ignition off. I thought power traveled to CDI after ignition.
Want to make sure that isn't an issue.
Battery is currently on a charge.
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  #10  
Old 27 Sep 2013
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Since you are dealing with an 80's bike with a CDI, Battery is is NOT used to power the CDI. It is powered by the stator. I really suspect your CDI module is dead. I had two of them bad, one in an 84 that has been sitting since early 90's and my 86 that ran poorly and started very hard a year ago. After sitting for a year, the CDI died. I used my multimeter and verify the OHM readings of the Stator, Trigger coils etc. I then put the multimeter on AC volts and using the schematic connected to each stator and trigger coil output. I removed the spark plug to make kicking easier then kicked while watching the volt meter. I got upswing on each so I figured the stator was outputting. I also checked the 84 and got almost identical OHM reading an same upswing on voltmeter. I then ordered replacement CDI module, plugged it in and fat blue spark appeared on plug. Runs perfectly and starts easily now.

I highly recommend you DO NOT buy a used CDI on Ebay. They are going to be bad or die shortly due to age.

Watch this space later today. I have a new programmable CDI to test. I am currently running a Hyperpak from New Zealand. No complaints except long delays in getting it. The New programable PCDI-XT from Zeeltronics.com will ship fast, you can set an RPM limit if desired, it comes preprogrammed for plug and play. You have the ability to set the advance curve anywhere you want, but stay close to the stock settings. An anti-kickback feature was included and is accomplished by setting a minimum RPM setting for starting. Default is 250 RPM. Below this, NO SPARK, no kickback. This is adjustable but 250 is a pretty good place to leave it from the makers testing on his own XT550. This replacement CDI is only for the earlier XT's that have the wires coming out of the CDI module. Newer TCI modules have built-in plugs and will not use this model. Current price without programmer or USB cable is 150 Euro's and comes from Slovenia. Borut ships quickly and by AIR.

Extra feature included but probably not needed for the XT is a shift light output that can drive a bulb or bright LED directly and an Electronic Tach drive, should drive a Vapor tach directly. I will be looking at that myself.

Steve

Last edited by steveloomis; 27 Sep 2013 at 15:34. Reason: update
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  #11  
Old 27 Sep 2013
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Could simply be a dry joint on the CDI`s PCB (very common) they can be repaired with soldering.

Mezo.
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  #12  
Old 28 Sep 2013
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thanks for replies

Clymer states that the CDI can be tested by yamaha. Can someone confirm this please.

where i'm at
i have basicly the same readings from both coils, as long as I use the same plug boot.
Ignition coil
1985 primary .9 1989 .8 ohm Clymer spec: 0.27-0.33 ohm
1985 secondary 15.44 1989 18.1ohm Clymer spec: 3.44- 5.16 ohms

Source coil: 238 ohm Clymer spec: 160- 240 ohm

pick up coil: (measured 2 eyes together of connector with mouth on bottom) had 229 Ohms Clymer spec: 90-129 ohms
Measured eyes to mouth had 114 ohms
> confused on this as bike's wires were changed it seems from stator out with different colored wires. I originally thought I was safe with 114 when I measured eyes to mouth but seems I might of done it wrong.
Clymer spec: 90-129 ohms

If I connect multimeter to brown and red wires out of stator and kick bike over with meter on ac volts, I get 65 volts max.

I have a VERY weak spark. I have an auto test light hooked up and I have spark. How strong I can't tell but if I pull plug and ground to head their is no spark.

I get the same results with either CDI and ignition coil. switched up back and forth etc.
Kill switch is disconnected as is Neutral switch and kick stand is jumped.
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  #13  
Old 28 Sep 2013
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Hello
I searched for spec on the CDI, came up with different test results.
If I follow this my results seem to be with in spec or very close to it.

Models with CDI
Ignition coil (Primairy winding resistance) ground - orange
0,8 ohm (90mH)
Ignition coil (Secondary) Orange - spark plug
17 kohm
Charge coil resistance (HV) Red - brown
200 ohm or 122ohm +/-10 ohm
batterie charging coil (LV) white - white 0,23-0,38 ohm
Pulser coil resistance green - white/red 90-130 ohm
green - white/green 90-130 ohm
white/red - white/green 180-260 ohm
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  #14  
Old 28 Sep 2013
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You found out as I did that the Clymer manual is WRONG. The Yamaha factory manual is correct. The Clymer did not tell you which is the correct wires to measure. Your second post is correct. Basically you measure from the center tap of the coil to each end. Clymer has you measure across the whole secondary and is why the reading is too high, twice too high....
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  #15  
Old 28 Sep 2013
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I too have found the Clymer manuals to have the odd error in their specifications
Best stick to the factory Yamaha manual
Bob
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