Metal particles in oil XT600e
 

Hey guys

Ive just bought my 2003 XT600e and have been looking over it closely, I've noticed an alarming amount of metal partials stuck to the side of the oil tank.

I've been looking for other references to this on the forum but only found something for the XT350 having this and talk of the wear to 5th gear on the 600.

Is this the norm with the 600? (as is said of the 350) or should I start planning some open heart surgery to check the gears?
The bike has done just over 25,000 miles.

I'd appreciate any advice.
Thanks
Dom

No this isnt good at all, wouldnt run the engine! Take out oil filter and check for more.

Yeahhh no metal shrapnels should be visible at all.Only some minor steel dust that react as magnetized.
The older XT 600(43F and 2KF) had some lubrication problems.That is why they changed in 88 the design of the pump.And introduction of a external lubrication path to the 5th gear.
Can you make pictures?

Hi Dom

I`ve got the same year as you and a couple more k`s on the mileage too. Nothing like that on mine, I`d be more than a bit concerned. Some one on here will be along with some good advice shortly I`m sure. Good luck, hope it turns out okay!

Bill

"wear to 5th gear"
Hi LD,
Does 5th gear make a noise? A worn 5th sounds very much like a knobbly tire on tar. The bike runs quiet thru' all,gears until you change to 5th, then emits a distinct 'howl' when 5th is badly worn. Especially noticeable if riding next to a wall or armco, reflects sound.
If so, you may want to change your summer plans:(
The wearing bits of gear find their way to the oil pump doing some damage and causing a loss of oil delivery and a chain of failures that are documented on HUBB.
If this sound like you, help is at hand, just ask.
p

How is the oil filter? Is it clean or does it have metal filings in it? How does the oil look?

In the later XT600E (model 4PT) the gearbox issues are supposed to be solved. So if you have a problem, it is not likely to be the gearbox.

Please keep us informed.

Metal Sand
 

Hey Guys thanks for your quick responses (sorry ive been a little slow!)

I got some pictures of the offending articles:
bits 037.jpg
bits 027.jpg
bits 036.jpg
bits 034.jpg
bits 031.jpg

These pics are just what I managed to pull from the tank with a magnet on a stick - it was trying to clump together so I tried to get some pics through a microscope to show the real size of the bits.

They have the consistency of "metal sand" and there are no large chips.
I got a chance to drain the oil yesterday and look at the filter,
with the oil in a clean drip tray I passed the magnet all through it but only picked up a couple of tiny bits (nothing to worry about).
The filter did have some more metal sand in it but it looks like the majority of the stuff has settled in the tank.

The oil its self looked relatively new (dark but not black).

The engine runs well and I haven't noticed any odd noises in any of the gears (encouraging!).

I'm thinking its not as bad as I first thought now but im going to keep checking things anyway, ive left a magnet on the end of the drain plug and will change the oil a couple more times as well as some more tank fishing.

How hard is it to open up the oil pump? (is it buried deep within?).

Im starting to think that it could be normal wear particles that nobody in the bikes previous life has bothered to clean out (or possibly that's hopeful thinking).

Either way thanks for your replies!
Dom

Oh one more question (possibly a stupid one) how do you know the exact model type you have? (4PT ect)?

Engine runs well, yes as long as it last..This is not normal and its just a matter of time before engine needs overhauling if you continue riding. Engine needs to be taken apart and find out whats causing this, start checking the gears. You just bought the bike, i recomend you give the bike back and get your money before you have to buy new engine.

Its in the vincode:


http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_XT_600

The first picture looks pretty bad, but the others seems pretty normal, not much as you say yourself.

It could go either way, see what happens in a couple hundred kilometers, and take it from there.

Not stupid at all, kind of hard to find out in some cases at least.

My 2000 XT600E is model 4PT, you can see a sticker if you remove the seat and tank (or just the seat, don't remember). Here is a pic of my bikes label:

http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/1782/t6ur.jpg

I do not like how "sandy" (big) the metal shavings in your bike are. I do not have any visible metal shavings or bits in the oil tank of my bike, and usually the shavings on the magnetic drain plugs (talking motorcycles in general) are a lot finer. I agree with xtrock,if you can reverse the deal I would do so.
You probably have a net filter (wire) in the frame downtube, you probably want to check it out. May not be pretty.

Oh god here we go!
 

Thanks for the feedback guys - really appreciate it.

I think im at least going to open it up to have a look, my work has a boroscope kit so i'll see if they will let me use that before I start any major component removal.

I spoke to the previous owner about it, hes not happy to reverse the deal - I think thats fair enough, he sold it to me in good faith and hes staying in contact to give advice and things, he said he didn't know of any problems and it was running fine wile he owned it (im willing to believe him).

To be honest the idea of a strip down and re-build scares the hell out of me but im going to give it a go should I need to (I figure I dont have much to lose but if all goes well I will have a good knowledge of the engine).

Does anyone have any advice or tips on how to do it or what to look out for?:helpsmilie:

Thanks again guys

Dom

A workshop manual is helpful. You should be able to get one from Yamaha. There is also a e-manual floating on the internet, for the 3TB. The engine is very similar to yours, almost the same. Do a search and you probably can find it.

This guy was kind enough to put 25 videos of a rebuild on youtube. I'ts not a XT600E but very similar, check it out.

Yamaha XT600 Engine strip-rebuild part 1 - YouTube


And there is more stuff on youtube

I hope your crankshaft balancer is kaput - that and 5th gear on the earlier models are the only weaknesses I know about that could give you that sort of problem.

But that amount of swarf suggests otherwise. And the colour (black) suggests it might be something wearing a casting (i.e. a casing).

I am sorry you bought a bike with a problem and I wish you the best of luck pulling it apart to find out what the problem is and fixing it.

Enter - Sherlock Holmes!
 

Hey guys just a quick update on this -

Ive now fully stripped the engine down and found ...... nothing was wearing!
The oil pump is pretty mashed and there are score marks on a few items such as the cam shaft but it all looks like a result of the bits of metal rather than the cause.

Ive noticed there are some "odd" patches in the paint work - the paint is even and not touched in but its almost as if it had corrosion under it once in a few places.

What I think has happened is the frame has had a respray but whoever did it didn't mask the oil tank properly, so when they blasted it to remove the corrosion the tank took in the blasting medium doh.
With no access to the back of the tank and possibly not knowing what had happened the bike was re-assembled, run and sold.

I'm going to start the rebuild soon but id like to get hold of a replacement pump anyone got one? (there seems to be plenty of the older pumps for the early models but none for mine 2003 build) - that is unless I want to pay £160!!!! :censored:

Or one from a 660, they'll have 5LP stamped on them. The gear still says 3AJ.